From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V7 #55 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Thursday, February 12 1998 Volume 07 : Number 055 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Oscars. (Robynless) [Eb ] Cycling ["Matthew Knights" ] Bickerwing, bickerwing, [dlang ] Re: Oscars. (Robynless) [Miles ] Stuff (5% Robyn) [Natalie Jacobs ] Re: Oscars. (Robynless) [tanter ] zip zip [Russ Reynolds ] Unreleased Soft Boys stuff [Russ Reynolds ] Re: Oscars. (Robynless) [MARKEEFE@aol.com] Nick Lowe (Re: Cycling) [Tom Clark ] Re: Oscars. (Robynless) [Aaron Mandel ] Re: Unreleased Soft Boys stuff [Tom Clark ] Re: Bickerwing, bickerwing, [Mark_Gloster@3com.com] Re: Oscars -- Elfman and company [The Great Quail ] Elfman, Winslet and Titanic (Robynless) [Capuchin ] Re: Stuff (40% Robyn) [Capuchin ] Re: Stuff (5% Robyn) [amadain ] Re: Mulder, are you there? This is Diane. . . [hal brandt ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 00:46:11 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Oscars. (Robynless) >Two Danny Elfman nominations and one Elliot Smith. This begs a question I was pondering earlier today: Has Elfman ever WON an Oscar? I figure he must have been nominated before, but has he won? >(Kate Winslet? She acts like a tenth grade >pseudogoth drama queen. And, well, she looks like she works every day to >keep off the same's figure.) I sure do read this sort of "fat girl waiting to happen" comment about Winslet a lot. Hm. Eb, who values Elfman's soundtracks miles over Oingo Boingo and thinks that Edward Scissorhands is probably the best film score of the decade ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:19:29 -0000 From: "Matthew Knights" Subject: Cycling Yes, good on you, I approve of the idea of recycling. To make my point I once cycled past a long queue of cars waiting to enter a recycling point, dumped the bicycle there and walked home!! If one lives near enough to a recycling point or lives in a city which makes the effort to help so much the better. Many don't. Like you I used to live close to one and made use of it. I no longer do. The only recycling point I know is disguised by a choking pall of fumes expelled by the queue of cars waiting to get in. >I still like that crazy breaking glass and flushing toilet sound >I love the sound of breaking glass/Deep into the night" :) Around 1990 I once enjoyed seeing Mr. Lowe playing solo at the Mean Fiddler. Matt [ thanks for the clues to 3x(run)] _________________________________________________________________ Matthew Knights mknights@harrywasp.prestel.co.uk `Ton ame est un lac d'amour dont mes desirs sont les cygnes...' _________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:49:44 +2910 From: dlang Subject: Bickerwing, bickerwing, This whole discussion on about what is or isn't appropriate posting to the list, what is self indulgent and just plain dumb reminds me of a conversation from the Young Ones where they have been endlessly squabbling ( as usual ) over trivia. Rick attempts to impose some sort of order . From memory this is how it goes. Rick: Guys , guys, look at us, squabbling, bickerwing,whats happening to us, we never used to be like this" Mike:"Yes we have Rick, we've always been like this" Every list I've been on regularly has this discussion ,which actually then clogs up the list with masses of "Me too posts". It then subsides for a month or two and then resurfaces its ugly head once more and so on endlessly. Every list also has its resident grouch, bighead or stirrer who likes to create conflict or to bigmouth their opinions as being the ultimate answer to life , the universe and everything. Personally they really don't bother me that much, sometimes it stops things from getting boring.But if one just can't bear their presence then one can always chose NEVER to read this persons posts and then if they insult you or desecrate the memory of your fave artist , it won't register. Since this list doesnt generate much traffic anyway, I think theres room for everyones viewpoint. I personally hate endless lists of artists, albums and best offs,others hate the sort of fantastic conspiracy theories generated by Quail , myself and others.(but actually folks, you may think its all diseased ramblings of drug raddled minds, but actually every fucking word is true and I can prove it). So anyway,whatever you dislike, we all have the delete button, a quick perusal of the post will soon give you a clue as to its content , just don't bother to read the rest. Just think yourselves lucky , on the Fairport list they've just had about 200 posts about Swedes and beer and the Rt list discussed Dire Straits endlessly for about three weeks. Eb dissing and listing endlessly seems pretty small beer in comparison and ( and remember,he's obviously intelligent,he has a good turn of phrase on occasions and he does like Can so there is some good in him after all) Vade Nalg ( the stupid old shit from dooon undire) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:11:04 -0600 From: Miles Subject: Re: Oscars. (Robynless) At 11:53 PM 2/11/98 -0800, Capuchin wrote: >I just thought it was interesting. Other than that, the nominations were >predictable and painful. (Kate Winslet? She acts like a tenth grade >pseudogoth drama queen. Does Ms. Winslet deserve a nomination for TITANIC -- nah. But James Cameron's self-penned TITANIC's script, especially the cornball romance part that she and Leo are stuck doing, is atrocious, and both Kate and Leo often look like they're thinking "I can't believe I'm actually saying this tripe!" Kate is a marvellous actor, a fact that can be gleaned from even the most casual viewing of SENSE & SENSIBILITY or JUDE. >And, well, she looks like she works every day to >keep off the same's figure.) Has Madison Avenue and Hollywood hypnomotized Our Capuchin? A catty remark because a gal ain't Julia-Roberts bony? My, my. You thought "bloaty," I thought "yummy!" Reminds me of Dorothy Parker's comment about Hollywood's idea of an ugly woman being a pretty woman with glasses... later, Miles ============================================================== JASON WILKINS (of Neilson Hubbard): Victor's was just starting to happen, then it burned down. BILL LLOYD: That's a pretty good metaphor for the Nashville rock scene. -- NASHVILLE SCENE, Jan. 15, 1998 Miles Goosens outdoorminer@mindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/miles ============================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:23:59 -0500 From: Natalie Jacobs Subject: Stuff (5% Robyn) Really, guys. Has your love blinded you to what is *truly* the world's worst voice? Yes, it's the wheezing asthmatic donkey's bray that belongs to Our Pal from Minnesota, Mr. Robert Zimmerman - the man who sounds like he's been gargling sulfuric acid after first swallowing a packet of safety pins. Makes Morrissey sound like Pavarotti. Re. Robyn's voice, it's not a terrific one - he's a bit nasal and can't always hold a pitch - but it mostly does what he wants it to do. My sister won't listen to him because of his voice - she says it sounds too much like a speaking voice. I'm not sure why this bothers her. Mike Godwin sneers, >The day I really took seriously against the Beatles was the day that >Radio London got hold of an advance copy of 'Sgt Pepper' and played it >straight through. What a self-indulgent, incoherent, sentimental, >over-produced, deliberately cute slice of vinyl. Ahh... nothing like a good, hearty dose of iconoclasm to start the day out right! Sgt. Pepper is another album that it's hard for me to look at objectively, because I LOVED it when I was a kid, but as I got older, I thought... damn, this album isn't that good, is it? But every time I say so, I get blasted with rage and contempt. So it's nice to know someone agrees with me. Quail, I will get started on the Hellraiser Eb action figure post-haste - I just need some time off work so I can sneak over to the hospital and steal some surgical equipment. n., proud that the Surreal Posse turned out for me when I joined the list p.s. Notice I didn't say anything about the anti-Costello comment? :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:20:33 -0500 From: tanter Subject: Re: Oscars. (Robynless) At 07:11 AM 2/12/98 -0600, you wrote: > >Does Ms. Winslet deserve a nomination for TITANIC -- nah. But James >Cameron's self-penned TITANIC's script, especially the cornball romance >part that she and Leo are stuck doing, is atrocious, and both Kate and Leo >often look like they're thinking "I can't believe I'm actually saying this >tripe!" Kate is a marvellous actor, a fact that can be gleaned from even >the most casual viewing of SENSE & SENSIBILITY or JUDE. Here, here. I thought TITANIC was a waste of my time and couldn't believe all the people crying around me in the theatre. It's historically inaccurate, the love story is weak and the special effects aren't _that_ special--when the ship is next to the iceberg after they hit, it reminds me of sci fi films from the 50s, when a giant monster looms over a car or something. Although the final scenes when people bounce off various parts of the ship before hitting the water did seem realistic..... >Has Madison Avenue and Hollywood hypnomotized Our Capuchin? A catty remark >because a gal ain't Julia-Roberts bony? My, my. You thought "bloaty," I >thought "yummy!" Reminds me of Dorothy Parker's comment about Hollywood's >idea of an ugly woman being a pretty woman with glasses... Kate happily gained 13 lbs after the movie finished filming and says that she is much happier with herself now and has no desire to be a matchstick. Marcy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 98 07:54:00 -0800 From: Russ Reynolds Subject: zip zip >i suppose this is a shot in the dark, but does it give songwriting >credits? because, isn't Zip Zip the one about which the hamilton >discography says it's not know whether robyn wrote the tune? I asked Mr. Hitchcock once whether or not this was an original and he told me it was written by James A Smith. - -rr ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 98 08:38:00 -0800 From: Russ Reynolds Subject: Unreleased Soft Boys stuff A couple of years back someone on this list (maybe the Rooneys? Are you still out there?) made me a cassette which included some miscellaneous tracks at the end marked only as "1978 Soft Boys Rehearsals" and "Can of Bees Outtakes" Some pretty good tunes that I'd like to know more about if anyone can help. I don't have any song titles and don't have the tape with me to refer to at the moment, but if anyone has any recordings that fall under these categories and can offer more info I welcome your reply. One more note about Hitchcock's voice: Years ago when I was deejaying late at night on KSJO (Solid RAWK!) I was confessing to a caller off the air that the music I listened to at home was nothing like the stuff I played on the radio. "Madonna of the Wasps" had just been released and we had a copy of the single sitting on a desk somewhere so I said "what the hell, it's 3 AM" and played it on the air so this person could hear what all the fuss was about (and of course to turn all twelve of my listeners onto The Man...) Her first comment was something along the lines of "That guy is the worst singer I've ever heard!" - -rr "I was followed home by a weighing machine on Picabo Street" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:45:07 EST From: MARKEEFE@aol.com Subject: Re: Oscars. (Robynless) << >(Kate Winslet? She acts like a tenth grade >pseudogoth drama queen. And, well, she looks like she works every day to >keep off the same's figure.) I sure do read this sort of "fat girl waiting to happen" comment about Winslet a lot. Hm. >> Fear not, Femme Fegs. . . there are at least a few of us guys out here who appreciate (and, in the case of Kate Winslet, *very much* appreciate) a woman who isn't all skin and bones. - ------Michael K., who would love to see the Kate Winslet look surpass the Kate Moss look. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 98 10:44:00 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Nick Lowe (Re: Cycling) On 2/12/98 1:19 AM, Matthew Knights wrote: >Around 1990 I once enjoyed seeing Mr. Lowe playing solo at the Mean >Fiddler. I just have to chime in here. One of the best club gigs I've ever been to was seeing Nick Lowe and Paul Carrack at Toad's Place in New Haven, CT., 1982. Cruel To Be Kind, Tempted, How Long Has This Been Going On... It was skinny tie nirvana. - -tc p.s. I still have the tape of the radio broadcast if anyone's innersted. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:37:02 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: Oscars. (Robynless) On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Eb wrote: > Eb, who values Elfman's soundtracks miles over Oingo Boingo and thinks > that Edward Scissorhands is probably the best film score of the decade oh, now you're spoiling for a fight. half his soundtracks are just orchestral reworkings of oingo boingo songs anyway -- listen to "Nasty Habits" and the simpsons theme side by side. The Nightmare Before Christmas was one of the biggest disappointments i've had in years. but then, i don't really like most scores on their own, and elfman's are at least okay. by the time they broke up, Oingo Boingo certainly weren't going anywhere (viz. the otherwise unreleased metal numbers on their farewell concert album). a ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 98 10:51:06 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Unreleased Soft Boys stuff On 2/12/98 8:38 AM, Russ Reynolds wrote: >A couple of years back someone on this list (maybe the Rooneys? Are you >still out there?) made me a cassette which included some miscellaneous >tracks at the end marked only as "1978 Soft Boys Rehearsals" and "Can of >Bees Outtakes" Some pretty good tunes that I'd like to know more about if >anyone can help. Here's a little help: http://u2.netgate.net/~tclark/robyn/sevens/ > "I was followed home by a weighing machine on Picabo Street" I was watching the Olympics last night on CBS. Did you realize there're actually SPORTING EVENTS occuring? - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:36:41 -0800 From: Mark_Gloster@3com.com Subject: Re: Bickerwing, bickerwing, >... >Every list also has its resident grouch, bighead or >stirrer who likes to create conflict or to bigmouth >their opinions as being the ultimate answer to life, >the universe and everything... Actually, I hear that this _is_ Eb, who spends all of his time reading everything on all >c- musical artists (and Claudine Longet too) and commenting. ;-) It is, of course, possible that there are some bad mood bots that make crabbage their cause and try to meddle with our moods. One other theory is that this problem is even worse, and that there is a quail somewhere with way too much time and way too many splersonalities doing all of this. Actually, I think you're right. It's just a cyclic thing and we haven't had enough real Hitchcock news lately. This place seems very tolerant of differences for the most part. Also of my self-indulgent, vegetable blather. Thanks. Happies - -markg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 98 16:55:26 -0400 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: Oscars -- Elfman and company Eb writes, >This begs a question I was pondering earlier today: Has Elfman ever WON an >Oscar? I figure he must have been nominated before, but has he won? No, I don't think he has. Not even an Emmy for the Simpsons theme. Bah. Stupid dumb Oscars. The soundtrack category is a personal gripe of mine. Eliot Goldenthal's score for "Interview with a Vampire," Wojciech Kilar's score for "Bram Stoker's Dracula," Elfman's score for "Edward Scissorhands," Badalamenti's for "Fire Walk with Me," Peter Gabriel's for "Last Temptation of Christ. . . " And Phil Glass, of course, for numerous movies. (Although I am glad to see at least he has been nominated for Kundun!) None of which won an Oscar, and I'm not sure if any were even nominated! No, instead they *automatically* hand awards out to hacks like Horner and Zimmer, and even to John Williams -- who was once brilliant, but hasn't written anything interesting since 1985 or so. No, they just keep lauding him on principle, while talented new composers (Elfman and Goldenthal come to mind) are utterly ignored. And DISNEY? Grrrrr . . . . I don't even like to think about that. . . . So we all know Titanic will win best score, even though it doesn't deserve it. (Don't get me wrong -- it was my favorite movie of the year, and I hope it wins all Oscars *but* that one, which I naturally think should go to Elfman or Glass.) Capuchin writes, >>(Kate Winslet? She acts like a tenth grade >>pseudogoth drama queen. And, well, she looks like she works every day to >>keep off the same's figure.) Well, I disagree on that one utterly! I think she is a wonderful actress, although her age and face keep her in certain roles. She was a great Ophelia, too. But I will say that the comment about her figure sounds a bit mean spirited! What does that have to do with her acting ability? Eb again, >Eb, who values Elfman's soundtracks miles over Oingo Boingo and thinks that >Edward Scissorhands is probably the best film score of the decade Hear hear!! - --The "Finally some recognition for James Cameron" Quail PS: My Oscars: Best movie: Titanic Best Director: James Cameron Best Actor: Samuel L. Jackson (Jackie Brown) Best Actress: Jodie Foster (Contact) Best Supporting Actor: Robert DeNiro (Jackie Brown) Best Supporting Actress: The chick from "Good Will Hunting" Best Score: "Kundun," by Phil Glass Best Adaptated Screenplay: Crash Honorable Mentions: For playing a non-human female with weird shit in her head: Sigourney Weaver, "Alien Resurrection" Mila Jovanovich, "Fifth Element" - ---------------------------------+-------------------------------- The Great Quail, K.S.C. | Literature Site - The Libyrinth: TheQuail@cthulhu.microserve.com | www.rpg.net/quail/libyrinth www.rpg.net/quail | Vampire Site - New York by Night: riverrun Discordian Society | www.rpg.net/quail/NYBN 73 De Chirico Street | Arkham, Orbis Tertius 2112-42 | ** What is FEGMANIA? ** "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents." -- H.P. Lovecraft ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 98 16:55:22 -0400 From: The Great Quail Subject: Mulder, are you there? This is Diane. . . >Personally, I think they oughta end the series with Mulder caught >wearing Scully's clothing in a small town in the Pacific northwest >where the there is DAMN good coffee, and no one is innocent. (Get it?) That would be an interesting end . . . and I have always wondered if the X-Files universe (And the Millenium universe) takes place in the Twin Peaks universe. I think that would be really neat . . . . and it would really improve my opinion of the FBI, as well. I have, by the way, heard rumours that a picture of Laura Palmer appeared on Mulder's desk in one early episode . . . but they remain unsubstantiated. Typical X-Files rumor. But I would think it would be so freakin' cool if during one episode -- any episode -- Agent Dale Cooper was walking down the hall and he and Mulder exchanged a cheerful hello. That's all, nothing more, just a nudge nudge wink wink for us Wrapped in Plastic fans. . . . And by the way, as far as these comments about the declining quality of the X-Files, blah blah blah, well that kind of gets to me. As an X-Files fan from waaaaaay back -- second episode, as a matter of fact, back in the days when I went around saying, "No, really, watch this show, it's not what you think, it's actually rather good," I want to say that I think the show has actually improved over the years. Sure the Stephen King episode was lame (but not the Mulder/Scully parts -- that I liked!) but personally I have never thought that King was all that great, especially not compared to Lovecraft, Blatty, Ligotti, or even Barker. But I invite you to watch the early seasons -- like any good show, there is always a few clinker episodes, and no season of the X-Files is immune to this. Heck, there were even a few sub-par episodes of The Prisoner. . . . However, the show has reached a point where it has become institutionalized and comfortable enough to enter a certain "postmodern" mode of self-referentiality, and that means that not all episides must be deadly serious. Personally, one of my favorites is the episode where the Air Force fakes abductions -- the one where Alex Trebec plays a Man in Black. That episode, which had the geefully courage to deconstruct the show's own mythology -- was a masterpiece. Additionally, some recent episodes -- notable the ones focusing entirely on The Cigarette Smoking Man and the one about the Lone Gunmen -- can still be tremendously successful with little involvement from Scully and Mulder. In other words, the show has evolved to a level where it *is* now somewhat institutionalized -- and thankfully Carter is taking advantage of that, rather than allowing the show to rest on its laurels. I trust the man. . . . (Which shows how little I suppose I've learned from his own mythology!) Of course, that also means that the show is ripe for a backlash . . . and being pecked to death by the ducks of nitpicking and naysaying. That is not to say that one cannot legitimately dislike the X-Files . . . or even that the direction it is taking may not be to one's taste. Sure some of you have valid criticisms, and that's fine. Heck, some of you may even dislike U2, Babylon 5, and Philip Glass for all I know. But coming from a long tradition of SF fandom, I have seen far too many good programs picked apart by their own fanbase, and I am seeing that happen *outside* this List, and it burns me up. The X-Files is dead! Long live the X-Files! - --Special Agent Quail Cooper PS: Unrelatedly, I made an error in a previous posting. The TanDream album is called, of course, not "Underwater Moonlight" but "Underwater Sunlight." As Homer would say, "D'oh!" - ---------------------------------+-------------------------------- The Great Quail, K.S.C. | Literature Site - The Libyrinth: TheQuail@cthulhu.microserve.com | www.rpg.net/quail/libyrinth www.rpg.net/quail | Vampire Site - New York by Night: riverrun Discordian Society | www.rpg.net/quail/NYBN 73 De Chirico Street | Arkham, Orbis Tertius 2112-42 | ** What is FEGMANIA? ** "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents." -- H.P. Lovecraft ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:00:56 -0800 From: jeffery vaska Subject: Re: Bickerwing, bickerwing, yoyo... honestly, i love the juice. pour it on, mix it up. it's just too bad that all of us retards couldn't just strap on the boxing gloves and take out our aggressions on each other personally. CAN YOU IMAGINE JUST HOW MUCH FUN THIS WOULD ACTUALLY BE! as for grouchs, or weird cryptic messages, or quail (enough said) - i don't agree with that slogan, "can't we all just get along?" NO WAY... splitting atoms and exchanging ideas is always filled with destructive energies and you just have to appreciate this or the value of life in general is pretty much lost. i for one have really been enjoying the banter...obviously. it's been fun reading the to's and fro's, and lefts and rights. it's alot more interesting than both the tv and all those shit hollywood movies - imho. and for those who need a bit of hitchcock in EVERY post...how does it go..."a happy bird is a filthy bird." tschau...jv ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:08:02 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Elfman, Winslet and Titanic (Robynless) On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Eb wrote: > This begs a question I was pondering earlier today: Has Elfman ever WON an > Oscar? I figure he must have been nominated before, but has he won? No. At least not according to the Academy Awards database at www.ampas.org. > >(Kate Winslet? She acts like a tenth grade > >pseudogoth drama queen. And, well, she looks like she works every day to > >keep off the same's figure.) > I sure do read this sort of "fat girl waiting to happen" comment about > Winslet a lot. Hm. And on Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Miles wrote: > Has Madison Avenue and Hollywood hypnomotized Our Capuchin? A catty remark > because a gal ain't Julia-Roberts bony? My, my. You thought "bloaty," I > thought "yummy!" Reminds me of Dorothy Parker's comment about Hollywood's > idea of an ugly woman being a pretty woman with glasses... I didn't mean that as a catty remark. And Julia Roberts is horrifying in both acting ability and appearance (boyo, I'm ASKING for trouble). I'd just like to say that I don't have a problem with Kate Winslet's figure. In fact, I'm far from saying I do. I'm just saying that she looks like she should and wants to be about 50 pounds heavier than she is, but dares not. It wasn't meant as a slam at all. I'm not really the sort of person to include or exclude someone based on their silhouette; "matchsticks" and "bloaty" both have their places in my book. And, for the record, all other things being equal, the one in glasses gets my vote. > Does Ms. Winslet deserve a nomination for TITANIC -- nah. But James > Cameron's self-penned TITANIC's script, especially the cornball romance > part that she and Leo are stuck doing, is atrocious, and both Kate and Leo > often look like they're thinking "I can't believe I'm actually saying this > tripe!" Kate is a marvellous actor, a fact that can be gleaned from even > the most casual viewing of SENSE & SENSIBILITY or JUDE. See, I was really impressed with her in Hamlet, but Sense & Sensibility and Titanic both made me really question her acting ability. It may well be the project or mood or the writing or something, but she just distracts me with her acting. Acting, like writing, shouldn't be noticed the first time through. And yeah, the script is HORRID. And I knew it was going to be an awful film and I TRIED to like it. Cameron doesn't understand subtlety and he writes to fifth graders. I've always appreciated George Lucas' comments on this topic, something like, "If you spend $20[0 in this case] on a set piece, don't SHOW it all." Here's the biggest problem, those of us discussing the flick SAW it. That means we voted for it. That means the studios were happily justified in spending the big bucks and throwing out the major promotions. How many GOOD films did we miss this month alone? And why did we go see Titanic instead? I blame myself. On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Aaron Mandel wrote: > On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Eb wrote: > > Eb, who values Elfman's soundtracks miles over Oingo Boingo and thinks > > that Edward Scissorhands is probably the best film score of the decade > oh, now you're spoiling for a fight. half his soundtracks are just > orchestral reworkings of oingo boingo songs anyway -- listen to "Nasty > Habits" and the simpsons theme side by side. The Nightmare Before > Christmas was one of the biggest disappointments i've had in years. Yes, yes, and yes. But you missed part of the point. Most Elfman soundtracks ARE Boingo songs revamped and reorchestrated. But not all of them are. I mean, there's that signature Elfman Oompah that every tense scene is given. There's the entire soundtrack to Midnight Run being Try To Believe stretched from four minutes to two hours with no lyrics. There's all those things. But Edward Scissorhands is something else. That's a beautiful piece of work. There's only that one Oompah thing in the cookie factory bit (don't get me wrong here, either. I love the Elfman Oompah). And there are fantastic things that you just couldn't see coming. Eduardo the Barber has those great strings. Good stuff. Nightmare Before Christmas... well... I liked most of the music, but the lyrics were ... lacking. I loved it when Entertainment Weekly quoted the example "Through my bony fingers it does slip" to point out the atrocious songwriting and followed it with the suggestion "Enjoy the film on video, that way when Elfman's lyrics begin, down the volume button you can push." And you wanna talk Nasty Habits? All of Elfman's Jack Skellington vocals are taken from that song. > but then, i don't really like most scores on their own, and elfman's are > at least okay. by the time they broke up, Oingo Boingo certainly weren't > going anywhere (viz. the otherwise unreleased metal numbers on their > farewell concert album). Ugh. It was worse seeing that stuff live. I kind of thought it was funny to see them in the summer of 94 without the horn section. They were just OK, really, and I thought it was clever tongue-in-cheek doing "Who Do You Want To Be" without the horns and as a sort of speed metal number. Then I got it. That's what they WANTED to sound like. Ick. While Boingo has its moments, that album just makes me think Danny didn't know what he wanted. "Um, Oingo Boingo? That's my ROCK band, right? They're supposed to be dark and creepy, right?" There's next to no fun in that album. And Insanity just sounds like the Batman theme with lyrics and some crazy-ass drumming. OK, I'm done ranting. I'm going to get a job today. J. ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:14:12 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Stuff (40% Robyn) On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Natalie Jacobs wrote: > Re. Robyn's voice, it's not a terrific one - he's a bit nasal and can't > always hold a pitch - but it mostly does what he wants it to do. My sister > won't listen to him because of his voice - she says it sounds too much like > a speaking voice. I'm not sure why this bothers her. Speaking of Elvis Costello... My argument for years has been that he doesn't sing, he talks in tune (somewhat). Robyn does this sometimes and sometimes he honestly sings. He sings in Heaven and the chorus of Driving Aloud and Madonna of the Wasps. He talks on most of the bluesier things (as bluesier people do) and One Long Pair Of Eyes and Lady Waters and The Hooded One... that sort of thing. You get where I'm going. I don't think it's a bad thing. It's a style thing. Robyn sometimes sings and sometimes well. I happen to really like the vocals on Agony of Pleasure, but I don't really dig the vocals on Executioner. One's warranted and the other isn't. > n., proud that the Surreal Posse turned out for me when I joined the list Wait a minute... I don't remember using any surrealism at all in my flirtation! > p.s. Notice I didn't say anything about the anti-Costello comment? :) Oh, I did. J. ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:06:11 -0600 (CST) From: amadain Subject: Re: Stuff (5% Robyn) > Really, guys. Has your love blinded you to what is *truly* the world's > worst voice? Yes, it's the wheezing asthmatic donkey's bray that belongs > to Our Pal from Minnesota, Mr. Robert Zimmerman I tried to let this pass. But I already said nothing to the Elvis Costello slam others have previously noted, and plus I've had a nasty flu for the past four days or so, so I'm tired of holding back my crankiness :). I think that Terry hit it on the head when he said that you can be a great singer without having a great voice, basically. And Dylan is a great singer. An easy target for mockery, to be sure, but a great singer nonetheless. So much so that I really have a hard time listening to other people do his songs, because they just don't sound right. > objectively, because I LOVED it when I was a kid, but as I got older, I > thought... damn, this album isn't that good, is it? But every time I say > so, I get blasted with rage and contempt. So it's nice to know someone > agrees with me. I can sort of relate here, because this is the reaction I get every time I say I don't like Stereolab :). But I can't agree. It's a great album, though by no means deserving of the fulsome praise that's been heaped upon it ("a great moment in Western Civilization"????). "Revolver" and "Abbey Road" are much stronger records. Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:29:04 -0700 From: hal brandt Subject: Re: Mulder, are you there? This is Diane. . . > > >Personally, I think they oughta end the series with Mulder caught > >wearing Scully's clothing in a small town in the Pacific northwest > >where the there is DAMN good coffee, and no one is innocent. (Get it?) > > That would be an interesting end . . . and I have always wondered if the > X-Files universe (And the Millenium universe) takes place in the Twin > Peaks universe. I think that would be really neat . . . . and it would > really improve my opinion of the FBI, as well. The worlds of Twin Peaks and the X-Files will NEVER cross-over. Mulder is not Bryson. Scully's dad is not Maj. Briggs. Having watched both series, IMHO Peaks is ten times the show the X-Files is. Such a collaboration would be like McCartney guesting on a new Rolling Stones CD. Any connection between the two series is tenuous at best. OK, the FBI and otherworldy subplots are in both shows, but you might as well wish for Jodie Foster to walk through X-Files as Clarisse from Silence of the Lambs if all it takes is an FBI agent to have a crossover plot. I'm still hoping that Twin Peaks can continue on it's own somehow/someday. There are still plenty of stories to resolve in Peaks. After all, Laura told Coop she'd see him "in 25 years". Harley Peyton or Mark Frost could do it if Lynch wasn't interested. Sure, BOB (not the SubGenius one) is dead, Dept. Andy is dead, Senor Droolcup is dead, Mayor Milford is dead and Annie is wearing rollerskates these days, but plenty of great plot threads are still dangling. What do Peaks freaks need the X-Files for? > the Stephen > King episode was lame That one was on the same level as the Little Nicky and James Hurley/Evelyn subplots in Peaks! A true lo-o-o-o-w. A Chucky/Chinga crossover, I'd believe. /hal NP-RobynH @ Largo 10 Jan 98. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:10:01 -0500 (EST) From: lj lindhurst Subject: did someone mention Neutral Milk Hotel? :) did y'all miss me while I was on vacation? Choose one: yes no There's a fairly lengthy article in last week's New York Press about Neutral Milk Hotel, and the "Elephant Six". More rave reviews! AND they're currently touring with my sweet Superchunk, so they *must* have some cred. Guess I will have to go record shopping. If you ask nicely, I might be able to find a pigeon with a WebTV console to peck this article in for ya. lj ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:04:52 -0800 From: Mark_Gloster@3com.com Subject: Re: bad bad elfy >> Eb, who values Elfman's soundtracks miles over Oingo Boingo and thinks >> that Edward Scissorhands is probably the best film score of the decade >oh, now you're spoiling for a fight. half his soundtracks are just >orchestral reworkings of oingo boingo songs anyway -- listen to "Nasty >Habits" and the simpsons theme side by side. The Nightmare Before >Christmas was one of the biggest disappointments i've had in years. Ummm. I guess you have the oingo boingo remix of danny elfman soundtrax CD. I like just about all of the man's work. He does rely on some common chordal moves and some common harmonies, but man, who doesn't. There are very few acts for whom I have any religious following proclivities, but careful about dissin' my beloved Boingo, Crimson, Hitchcock, Zappa, Ridgway/Voodoo, and of course, The Banana Splits. I think that The Nightmare Before Xmas is the singular best musical story movie since at least the sixties. This doesn't mean I'm right. Also, remember that the words for the movie were not written by our elvish friend. >but then, i don't really like most scores on their own, and elfman's are >at least okay. by the time they broke up, Oingo Boingo certainly weren't >going anywhere (viz. the otherwise unreleased metal numbers on their >farewell concert album). I haven't seen a single movie for which the soundtrack was done by Danny that the music wasn't at least as good as the rest of the movie. Nearly all of the concert stuff had been released at sometime before. Some of what wasn't was seventeen years old. The last two studio albums of Boingo- 2, on Giant Records (whereon your 'metal' unfavorites mostly lie) and 1, the final A&M CD were very good. Now, since they didn't contain cute modern rock 'ditties' that make us bop around like Kate used to in the B-52's until she got all depressed, they were not played by their trad radiobase. Since they were called Boingo, they were ignored by all the rest of radio. The band was dropped quickly. Elfman now gets to do his own thing and make lotso money. I wonder how he'll get his love-for-live-performance-skirt-blown-up now, though. I could see Boingo, or King Crimson concerts every night and never have to have a life of my own. I could probably throw in RH&the E's, but it would have to be a good venue and Robyn would have to be in a good mood. I agree that Boingo live without the horns wasn't as good. My disfavor at that tour was that the f***ing sound person who could only manage things in the (I'm going to get very technical here in the audio engineering buzlingorapthing, please try to keep up): "thubba," "hiss," and "tink" audio spectra when I saw them at the Berkeley Greek. It was also the last time I saw them. I do recommend that any tender boingoid lumplings watch the double live video of the farewell concert. It even includes ancient video from the days of the Mystic Knights of the Oingo Boingo. This could be screened any time for my Bay Area feggy friends or anyone who wanted to make the trek to Santa Cruz, CA. Happies, - -Markg running off at the frozen perspex like a burning dwarf in a slow divorce oh yes, and quite possibly something about bees or fish and death ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:55:34 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Titanic >So we all know Titanic will win best score, even though it doesn't deserve it. Ehhh, you know, I didn't think much about the score when I was watching the film. And of course, Celine "Monster Noggin" Dion is high, high, high on my hate list. But then when I started seeing film clips on TV *after* seeing the film, I was kinda surprised by my emotional reaction to the music. Which made me think in retrospect, "Say, that WAS a mighty fine score." And I don't often use record sales as a defense, but the soundtrack's performance on the pop charts is absolutely REMARKABLE. That's gotta speak well for Horner's work. And it's not just because the movie's a hit -- I mean, what chart position did the Jurassic Park soundtrack attain? I believe I heard that the Titanic score is the first album on a classical label EVER to reach #1. Garsh! You go, James! As for the film itself, I went only for the special effects, which are also remarkable. The more you learn, the more impressive it is. I've been seeing these "Making of Titanic"-type clips on ET and Extra, etc. lately...wow. So the ship never even FLOATED? It was just a huge shipdeck elevated off the ground, with the sides of the ship and the water added later with computers?? Whoa! It's amazing how little of the setting is real. So I liked the film mostly based on such high-tech issues. And it had a good dose of emotional pull at times, certainly. But I started getting REALLY exasperated in the last half-hour or so, when all the main characters seemed to want to do ANYTHING but survive. I let out a loud "ARRRGH!" in the theater when Winslet jumped out of that lowering lifeboat to dangle on the side of the ship. Ridiculous and manipulative, as was that whole save-Dawson-from-the-handcuffs sequence (where she split the cuffs with an axe...WITH HER EYES CLOSED?). It just started getting silly after that. The snobby, self-centered fiance would rather chase the lovers with a gun than save himself? Please. And she takes all these incredible risks for a guy she's known like two days? Please. And how about the fact that Dawson is just about the only person on the entire boat not wearing a life jacket? How come? Easy. That way, the director could get that poetic shot of him sinking below the surface at film's end. There wouldn't have been any poetry, if poor Capricio had just turned into a floating popsicle like everyone else. Lotsa cheap dramatic devices there. I was debating this film a night or two ago with an older woman I know, whose sensibilities are far, far removed from mine. She used to work at Paramount, and she views art from a very mainstream "marketing" sort of angle. She claims that Titanic is like the ultimate cross-marketed '90s film -- love story for the gals, action for the guys. She went on and on about how the effects didn't impress her, but how Cameron's screenplay knocked her out. How no one thought he could write a story before now. How brilliant it was to tell the story from a woman's point of view. How the arrogance of her snobbish peers so resonantly mirrored the arrogance/overconfidence which doomed the ship's travels. Yadda yadda yadda. I didn't have much response to her beyond "Huh, whatever." ;) Eb, wondering why Capuchin knows that Winslet has gained precisely *13* pounds...hmm, you sure you're not weight-fixated? ;) np: Mingus PS Poor LJ, you missed out big-time on another Eb barbecue! ;) ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V7 #55 ******************************