From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V7 #51 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, February 10 1998 Volume 07 : Number 051 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Cope and Krautrock [Stewart Russell 3295 Analyst_Programmer ] Re: Closer to depression [Bret ] maxwell's silver platter [nacho man ] Stuff [TROYD1@Westat.com (TROYD1)] re: Stuff ["Gene Hopstetter, Jr." ] Percy (100% Kinks) [Eric Loehr ] 3/3 ["Aidan Merritt" ] re: here goes more velvets [No Robyn] [M R Godwin ] re: "Phony Beatlemania has bitten the dust" [M R Godwin ] Warner Bros. Message Board [griffith ] Re: dese & dose [Capuchin ] the gloom 20 [james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan)] Re: dese & dose [amadain ] Re: Cale + VU Banana + Recycling (1% Robyn) [amadain ] Re: one prawn swimming against the tide [Eb ] Jandek [MARKEEFE@aol.com] Re: dense ["Michael R. Runion" ] Re: vast musical knowlegde ["Michael R. Runion" ] Re: one prawn swimming against the tide [Tom Clark ] Re: DENSEb [nicastr@IDT.NET (Ben)] Re: one prawn swimming against the tide [Capuchin ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:07:46 GMT From: Stewart Russell 3295 Analyst_Programmer Subject: Re: Cope and Krautrock >>>>> "mike" == Runion-1, Michael writes: mike> Kudos again to the "Krautrocksampler" book if anyone is mike> interested. A quick and fairly comprehensive read (though mike> nowhere near as enthralling as Cope's first book "Head On"). Yep, 'Head On' is a wonderful read; I read half one night, then finished it the next morning. It has party games for all the family: 1) 'Sock' - while travelling at 90mph+ on the freeway, put a sock over your head and climb from one side window of the van to the other, over the roof. 2) 'Brick' - standing 15 feet apart, players try to knock their opponents out with a well-aimed brick. [the penalty for cheating is amusing; have what you think is a bucket of water tipped over your head. It is in fact a bucket dredged from the cesspit...] 3) 'Bottle' - line 15 (milk) bottles on a wall. Stand back 15 feet. Using nothing but mental power, try to scare the bottles into falling. Stewart [did I say I was having 'An Audience with the Cope' tonight? :-)] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:52:59 -0000 From: "Matthew Knights" Subject: re: here goes more velvets [No Robyn] >But for some reason "What goes on" just works for me whereas I really >think they should have ended European Son after three minutes. luther wrote: You're right, if I can attempt making a general point, I think a song can only be so anarchic and still contribute something. After a certain point it's a self-defeating exercise and the song collapses in on itself and delivers very litle. IMO, the crazy stuff on Trout Mask Replica, What Goes On and Sister Ray are in the former group (anarchic but still contribute something ) whereas European Son crosses the threshold and gets lost up Lou's bottom! A song like I Heard Her Call My Name off White Light White Heat* is, IMO, is a borderline case. It works but only just. Matt *Apologies as I called this album 'Sister Ray' on a previous post. _________________________________________________________________ Matthew Knights mknights@harrywasp.prestel.co.uk `Ton ame est un lac d'amour dont mes desirs sont les cygnes...' _________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 02:23:51 -0800 From: Danielle Subject: The Smiths, the X Files, not a whisper of Robyn Eb wrote about Morrissey: > Too bad he has the most annoying voice in recorded history. ;P Eb, you *know* you rock my world, but it has to be said: this from a man who owns and personally recommends an album by *The Chipmunks*? If you can prove to me that Morrissey sounds worse than Alvin, I'll eat my handbags. ;p What's so annoying about his voice? Ben wrote: > I agree, there are a number of Smiths songs that are quite humerous. Maybe > because they are performed in a straightfoward manner people don't get it? I think it has a lot to do with the age people are when they start listening to the Smiths; dunno about other places, but here it's at about age 14. You know, those angst-ridden few years when you think that nothing about your life could possibly be funny, it's all deathly serious, and you spend your time writing excruciating poetry... at that stage, the funny side of Morrissey doesn't really register, I suppose. You really *do* want to be called 'morbid and pale'. ;) The X Files. Well, since we're about six months behind, I have the Stephen King episode to look forward to. *Please* tell me his script didn't contain the by now obligatory 40-minutes-into-the-episode 'Mulder! Where are you?' surprised-Scully-on-the-cellphone call. ;) Danielle, pleased to have overdrawn her cheque account to see Stereolab play tonight - it was worth it... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:22:22 -0500 From: "Runion-1, Michael" Subject: Re: Guided By Annoying Historical Voices Eb wrote: > Too bad he [Morrissey] has the most annoying voice in recorded history. ;P Oh, come now. I thought that title was firmly in the grips of people like Tom Waits, Tiny Tim, Cyndi Lauper, Eugene Chadbourne, Iris Dement, and the Ween brothers. But then again, everyone has an opinion. Mike Runion EG&G S&MA Data & Analyses; ADoCS Office 867-3619 BOC-251 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:05:29 -0500 (EST) From: Terrence M Marks Subject: Re: No! Not another post from Mike! > (1)Neutral Milk Hotel "On Avery Island" - Thanks for the suggestion, > Eb. This one near-instantly struck home. A wonderfully catchy low-fi > album with a flourishing Krautrock ending track. Most Elephant 6 stuff > I've heard is turning out to be truly intriguing. Saw them at the Florida Popfest (along with their splinter groups Music Tapes and The Gerbils) Live, they sounded very energetic but off-key and disorganized, because they have just plain too much stuff. Are the studio efforts different in this regard? (Personally, I dug The Gerbils and Music Tapes more than Neutral Milk Hotel, but that's probably just me) Terrence Marks normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:16:54 -0600 (CST) From: Bret Subject: Re: SXSW Film '98 - >Yes, eb, I'm thinking about making the trip. This is the information I >got from SXSW about the screening. Who else might go? I will be making the trip, along with 3 non-list members, (ok, one is on the digest)....... I haven't been to SXSW in years, and actually having to pay for something down there is really going to bother me......... hell, it's only 3.5 hours from here, I have no excuse not to make it........... - --Bret ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:29:40 -0600 (CST) From: Bret Subject: Re: Closer to depression At 10:11 AM 2/9/98 -0500, you wrote: >With regards to the top 20 most depressing albums... > >No Closer fans here? I'd a put this one at the top of the list. IMHO, >it has all the elements of a truly depressing album...depressing lyrics, >foreboding instrumentation and vocals. I love this one. > >By the way, I've got 10 of the 20, including the top 4. Maybe I need to >go see a psychiatrist or something. I'm not sure I'd attach the phrase >"depressing" to all these records though. Some are just in the >melancholy / somber / reflective vein, a far cry from what I'd consider >to be actually depressing to the listener. Yeah, I'm sitting at 15 myself........but again, depressing? OK, the REM is depressing if you think about how good the band used to be, and try to decide which word for feces best describes it. And Joy Division........especialy Closer ...... what a great record, put it second on my list, Under Nick Cave (although not Murder Ballads) ......... I'm suprised no one else mentioned it...........the latest record is much more depressing....... In case you haven't heard it, Nick says it is supposed to be a collection of love songs (after the collection of songs about murder.....next I believe Nick Cave will be doing a collection of songs about fish and pumpkins) oh yeah, love songs, but he couldn't pull it off, sure the record starts off with good intentions, but by the time it's over, you've passed through "Where do we go Now (But Nowhere)" "People Ain't No Good" and "Idiot Prayer" very powerful record, and crossing some new paths musicaly for Nick. etc, etc, etc......... - --Bret ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:07:16 +0000 From: nacho man Subject: maxwell's silver platter well, actually this one's green. The market stalls of olde London threw up a little curiosity at the weekend, in the shape of another Soft Boys bootleg. Titled "Maxwell's, New York, 1980" and claiming to be on "Handmade Productions", it's a d-i-y recordable CD job on one of those cute green TDK disks. It has quite a nicely done paper label glued onto the non-playing side, and reasonably well printed inserts to the case. Tracks, for those of you taking notes: "Live at Maxwell's, Hoboken, New York, 1980" Kingdom of Love, Out Of The Picture, Zip Zip, Human Music, I Wanna Destroy You, Only The Stones Remain, Leppo & The Jooves, The Queen of Eyes, There's Nobody Like You (mistitled as 'I Don't Mind Dressing In Black'), Underwater Moonlight, Insanely Jealous, Astronomy Domine, Vegetable Man. "Early demos" Where Are The Prawns ?, (I Want To be An) Anglepoise Lamp, (I Want To be An) Anglepoise Lamp (inst.), Fatman's Son, Wading Through A Ventilator, Face Of Death, Hear My Brane, Kimberley's Tune. The live stuff is audience recording but quite listenable, though there's some distortion in the vocals, and the audience do sound a lot more excited than the band. The demos aren't that exciting - the anglepoise instrumental is exactly as you'd expect, and "Kimberley's Tune" is a minute or so of guitar that doesn't go anywhere, particularly. Allegedly "less than 30 copies made, guv" but I guess whoever's behind it can run off more when they feel like it - no doubt there's a story in it somewhere. One for the more obscure corners of your discographies, anyway. Isn't Hoboken in New Jersey ? Or have I got my borders slightly misplaced ? Longish review of the last 12 Bar gig at: http://www.iowrock.demon.co.uk/clearspot/hitchcock_ledge.html J. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:50:25 -0500 From: TROYD1@Westat.com (TROYD1) Subject: Stuff *I give it 2 seasons left, not even one if Mulder and scully *end up in bed (it will take all the TENSION out of the show- people *say they hate tension, but it keeps people watching/ reading!) For that reason I refuse to sleep with anyone on the list. As far as the list of depressing music goes, I think the Swans would have to make it on there somehow. I don't like them at all, so I'm certainly not going to go through their albums and tell you which one (or two, or three...) should be there, but I'd suspect any of them are more depressing than _Unplugged_. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:33:16 -0500 From: "Gene Hopstetter, Jr." Subject: re: Stuff Somebody said: > *I give it 2 seasons left, not even one if Mulder and scully > *end up in bed (it will take all the TENSION out of the show- people > *say they hate tension, but it keeps people watching/ reading!) Ditto. Without that tension, the show is over. Not that that damned Stephen King episode didn't damned near kill it before its time. The first episode I've ever walked out on. > For that reason I refuse to sleep with anyone on the list. Heh. If only I'd have known =8-P > As far as the list of depressing music goes, I think the Swans would > have to make it on there somehow. Here, here. It's about time someone mentioned the Swans. With lugubriously sung lyrics like "I'd cut off my hands for you..." it certainly gives Poor Mr. Cobain a run for his money. The most depressing albums I know are the German Shepherds' "Music for Sick Queers" (I'm not making that up, either. Their lead singer hung himself in jail after being accused of molesting a boy.) and most anything by Virginia Astley (imagine Sylvia Plath with a piano). I am a huge Leonard Cohen fan, and I wouldn't describe his albums as depressing, though. His first LP, "Songs" is gloriously beautiful and somber, and it cheers me up usually. He sings "...lost in some dark mystery, like a man who is sure what it true" and that pretty much sums his music up for me. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:24:02 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Loehr Subject: Percy (100% Kinks) Michael asked about the Percy album: > remastered and reportedly have many bonus tracks. Now, what does anyone who > has heard it think of the musical content of "Percy". I really like > everything by the Kinks up through "Lola", but I haven't heard anything since > then that I've liked, including "Muswell Hillbillies" (the album right after > "Percy", which is right after "Lola"). The review of "Percy" in the All Music > Guide (which is only half-way reliable, as far as my tastes go) gave it only > two stars, but the actual right-up seemed quite favorable. If it's at least > almost as good an album as "Lola", I'll get it. If not, I can do without. > What say ye? > > -----Michael K. I bought the Percy LP as an import in the early 70's, and listened to it maybe 2 or 3 times -- what I remember is a few instrumentals, half-formed songs, and maybe three real songs -- the only ones that I can even remember what they sound like are God's Children (one of my all time favorites, also on Kinks Kronikles), The Way Love Used to Be (also on the out-of-print Great Lost Kinks Album), and Willesden Green (also on Kronikles, sung by then bass player John Dalton). I consider myself a major Kinks fan, and this is the only impression it left on me. There is no way that this album is anywhere close to as good as Lola -- definitely one for laying down and avoiding. Of course, what do *I* know? -- I actually like Muswell Hillbillies and a lot of the other post-Lola vs. Powerman And The Moneygoround stuff. ;-} Eric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:45:15 PST From: "Aidan Merritt" Subject: 3/3 I can't stand the Beatles, the Welsh or 'European Son'. Do I win a prize for completing the set? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:05:29 +0000 (GMT) From: M R Godwin Subject: re: here goes more velvets [No Robyn] On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Matthew Knights wrote: > IMO, the crazy stuff on Trout Mask Replica, What Goes > On and Sister Ray are in the former group (anarchic but still contribute > something ) whereas European Son crosses the threshold and gets lost up > Lou's bottom! A song like I Heard Her Call My Name off White Light White > Heat* is, IMO, is a borderline case. It works but only just. A bit harsh, I think. 'I heard her call my name' was my favourite Velvets guitar number for years, until I heard the wondrous version of 'I can't stand it any more more' on 'VU'. And incidentally, the compositions on TMR are in a completely different style because they were _written_ (by Don van Vliet) _scored_ (by John French) and _rehearsed intensively_ (by the Magic Band), whereas those Velvets numbers all rely on a large chunk of free-form improvisation in the studio. And I think that willingness to experiment is one important reason why the Velvets are so much better than Lou Reed. - - Mike Godwin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:11:56 +0000 (GMT) From: M R Godwin Subject: re: "Phony Beatlemania has bitten the dust" On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Gene Hopstetter, Jr. wrote: > Natalie freaked me out completely by describing exactly my feelings about > the Beatles: > I too own only those two albums, and that's me *exactly.* The Beatles were > drilled into my head by the radios I had on constantly during my childhood. > Imagine my surprise when I stepped into a college radio station and > discovered they had *13 entire albums*, and not just those 30 songs they > kept playing on the radio. Hey, I'm totally different from you guys. I've got 'Revolver' and 'Let it be'. The day I really took seriously against the Beatles was the day that Radio London got hold of an advance copy of 'Sgt Pepper' and played it straight through. What a self-indulgent, incoherent, sentimental, over-produced, deliberately cute slice of vinyl. And it topped a UK poll a couple of weeks ago for best album of all time! Words fail me - - Dislikeable Mike Godwin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:29:29 -0600 (CST) From: amadain Subject: Re: let's get depressed (zilch Robyn) > Sorry, people, but this is one of my little bugbears. The Smiths are > *not* usually depressing, though that's the common misconception. They > are blackly humorous. Morrissey really is one of pop's great comedians, > and I could quote zillions of his lyrics which are intentionally funny. I vote with Danielle. I've always thought Morrissey was very witty more often than he was very mopey. And yes, there are many many lyrical examples of this, probably too many to name here. Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:41:11 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: dese & dose Terrence wrote about Neutral Milk Hotel: >Live, they sounded very energetic but off-key and >disorganized, because they have just plain too much stuff. Are the studio >efforts different in this regard? Not everything has to be polished and shimmering like XTC, the Beach Boys and the Rain Parade.... Runion wrote: >Oh, come now. I thought that title was firmly in the grips of people >like Tom Waits, Tiny Tim, Cyndi Lauper, Eugene Chadbourne, Iris Dement, >and the Ween brothers. I like all of those voices better than Morrissey. Though Chadbourne is certainly decent competition. Here are some other voices which I like better (let's see...): Perry Farrell, Ozzy Osbourne, Juliana Hatfield, the girls from L7 and Babes in Toyland, Neil Young, Jandek, David Sylvian, Joe Cocker, Exene Cervenka, Jello Biafra, John S. Hall, Crispin Glover, Graham Lewis, Roger Hodgson, the Shaggs, Axl Rose, Frank Black, Jonathan Richman, Tom Verlaine, Richard Hell, the boys from Old Skull, Napoleon XIV, Calvin Johnson, Flavor Flav, Roger Waters, Mrs. Miller, Jon Anderson, Mark Hosler, Leonard Graves Phillips, Don Van Vliet, Yamatsuka Eye, Diamanda Galas, the guy in Chumbawamba who takes a whiskey drink, Roky Erickson, Shane MacGowan, Michael Gerald, Falco, Peter Garrett, Kurt Wagner, anyone in the Residents, Marianne Faithfull, Timmy Taylor, Joey Ramone, Eric Matthews, Ray Collins, the kids in Bis, the guy from Stump, Kim Shattuck, Tuli Kupferberg, Peter Stampfel, Mac McCaughan, David Thomas, Mark E. Smith, David Gahan, J Mascis, the gals in Cibo Matto and Shonen Knife, Sinead O'Connor, Dagmar Krause, John Lydon, Yoko Ono, Marc Bolan, Wild Man Fischer, Bob Dylan, the Johns in They Might Be Giants, Gibby Haynes,Mike Watt, Patti Smith, Robert Plant, Stephen Malkmus, Mick Jagger, Richard Harris, Davy Jones, Eric Bachmann, David Gedge, Alain Jourgensen, Courtney Love, Alison Shaw, Bjork, Corin Tucker, Victoria Williams, Vic Chesnutt, Randy Newman, Kim Gordon, Billy Corgan, Alanis Morissette, Moe Tucker, Danny Bonaduce, Scott Miller, Nico, Les Claypool, the guy from Laibach, Allen Ginsberg, Jad Fair, Daniel Johnston,the GTO's, Mark Mothersbaugh, Claudine Longet and that guy in a-ha. (I would add Alice Cooper, but that might wake up the Lurking Creature....) However, I must admit that the annoying qualities of Morrissey's voice are aggravated by his complete inability to write something resembling a melody. So that's a factor too. But to be fair, when it comes to bad pitch, I don't think anyone can touch Steve Wynn and Liz Phair. Oh, and the folks in the Pastels. Eb, wishing he was rich enough to spend $400-$500 to see a movie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:59:34 -0800 (PST) From: griffith Subject: Warner Bros. Message Board As JBJ mentioned, Warner Bros. has changed the RH site a little bit. One of the messages is allegedly from the Webmaster at WB. THe message contains lots of juicy morsels about the new album, Storefront (LP, CD, and Film), and SXSW. take a look for yourselves..... griffith = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Griffith Davies hbrtv219@csun.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:29:43 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: dese & dose On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Eb wrote: > However, I must admit that the annoying qualities of Morrissey's voice are > aggravated by his complete inability to write something resembling a > melody. So that's a factor too. That's why I can't stand (for the most part) Morrissey's solo work. It's all ridiculous garbage. Needlessly fleshed out to make up for no real musical value. The guy will put a string section in anything. But that Smiths Morrissey/Marr stuff is too damned good. I blame Mr. Marr entirely and use his non-Smiths work as support (The The is finely musical for the most part and Electronic isn't most people's pace, but I dig it). Morrissey himself is way too self-indulgent, I guess I would say. It's all kind of semi-ironic 8th-grade-girl poetry. Most of it's fun and when you're feeling immature, it's soulful, too. > Eb, wishing he was rich enough to spend $400-$500 to see a movie Yeah, you ain't kiddin'. But I'm working on it. It's all a matter of priorities. J. ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:06:20 +1300 (NZDT) From: james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan) Subject: the gloom 20 alrighty - having now seen the full top 20 (and finding out that The Wall and Nebraska *were* on there) I have to ask where Laurie Anderson's "Bright Red" is - possibly the most chillingly downbeat album I know (makes "Pre-millenium Tension" sound like the Carpenters as far as its fatalistic negativity), and it's nowhere! I suppose that "In our sleep" may have just lifted it out of the catacombs, but "Bright red", "Puppet motel", "Love among the sailors", "Same time tomorrow", "Speak my language", "World without end"... a great album, but not the cheeriest. James James Dignan___________________________________ You talk to me Deptmt of Psychology, Otago University As if from a distance ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk Street And I reply. . . . . . . . . . Dunedin, New Zealand with impressions chosen from another time steam megaphone (03) 455-7807 (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:09:48 -0600 (CST) From: amadain Subject: Re: dese & dose > That's why I can't stand (for the most part) Morrissey's solo work. It's > all ridiculous garbage. Needlessly fleshed out to make up for no real > musical value. Oof. Well here I disagree with you again, in a qualified way- because actually this IS true of the last two albums. But "Last of the Famous International Playboys" doesn't bring even a small smile to your face? > Morrissey himself is way too self-indulgent, I guess I would say. It's > all kind of semi-ironic 8th-grade-girl poetry. Aren't you thinking of Alanis Morissette? :) Actually her stuff is more like 18 or 19 year old the-first-person-I-had-sex-with-just-dumped-me type poetry. As for the self-indulgent part, well, yeah, and gloriously so. He'd be the first to agree with you on that part, I believe. Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:58:53 -0600 (CST) From: amadain Subject: Re: Cale + VU Banana + Recycling (1% Robyn) > Well this is a track I fell out of love with. On my first hearing I > thought European Son delivered the most shock value on the album Hmmmmmmm...... I would have voted for "Black Angel's Death Song" (musically) and/or "Venus in Furs" (lyrically) as the shock value numbers. But to each his own. > worked. I still like that crazy breaking glass and flushing toilet sound "I love the sound of breaking glass/Deep into the night" :) > trying desperately to make a > connection.> > Thanks for the explanation. Do you mean someone who is naturally severely > introverted socially or do you mean drug withdrawal symptoms as in "Cold > Turkey". A couple things need clarifying here. First of all, not the former, but the latter. Second of all, "cold turkey" is when one deliberately chooses to withdraw and undergo the ensuing sickness in order to kick. "Run run run" is talking about someone who didn't choose, exactly, but er, was waiting for the man that never came or couldn't find a man to wait for :). > expended by everyone driving around the country recycling their waste > vastly exceeds the amount of energy and resources saved. Well, when one lives in an area where one can get recycling picked by the city with the regular trash, how does that constitute a tremendous amount of waste? What if one lives near enough to a facility to walk? To echo your own phrase, I remain to be convinced that this is useless :). Besides which, I am so -out- of the habit of throwing away cans, bottles, and/or newspaper that I am just no longer able to throw them in the trash. I've been known to carry soda cans around in my bookbag for hours until spotting a recycling bin. Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:32:42 -0600 From: Miles Subject: Re: dese & dose At 04:29 PM 2/10/98 -0800, Capuchin wrote: >That's why I can't stand (for the most part) Morrissey's solo work. It's >all ridiculous garbage. Needlessly fleshed out to make up for no real >musical value. And now comes that time of year when I praise Morrissey's VIVA HATE and the singles immediately afterwards (most of which turned up on BONA DRAG), still the best work the Mozzer has done. THE QUEEN IS DEAD and LOUDER THAN BOMBS are right behind, lest you thing I'm dissing Johnny Marr. When you've got a voice as samey as Morrissey's, your musical backing has to be varied or things get borrrrring in a hurry. Stephen Street, who produced and co-wrote most of the tracks from this era, keeps the variety comin', from the wail of feedback that kicks off "Alsation Cousin" to "Every Day Is Like Sunday" (The Correct Use of Strings) to the romp of "Last of the International Playboys." I've never tired of VIVA HATE; in fact, I recently got the wonderfully remastered, slipcovered, bonus-track-galored U.K. reissue of VIVA HATE (part of EMI's 100th anniversary reissue series; Kate Bush's HOUNDS OF LOVE also gets the royal treatment), and it was money very well spent. But for most of Morrissey's solo career (glam-rock outing YOUR ARSENAL being the only other notable exception), yeah, you're right, strings and one mid-tempo dirge after another, however tongue-in-cheek, do not exciting albums make. As I think I said on this list once, Morrissey has finally kicked the "every other album sucks" jinx -- now they all suck. later, Miles ============================================================== JASON WILKINS (of Neilson Hubbard): Victor's was just starting to happen, then it burned down. BILL LLOYD: That's a pretty good metaphor for the Nashville rock scene. -- NASHVILLE SCENE, Jan. 15, 1998 Miles Goosens outdoorminer@mindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/miles ============================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:14:02 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: one prawn swimming against the tide >>Eb, wishing he was rich enough to spend $400-$500 to see a movie > >Yeah, you ain't kiddin'. But I'm working on it. It's all a matter of >priorities. Yes, exactly. I choose food. ;) If it was a question of seeing the film vs. NOT seeing the film, ehh...all right. But when someone can see the same film for $7 (or $1!) with minimal effort if he's just willing to wait a bit, I dunno. In that case, a long-distance trip gets filed under "weenieism" with me. After all, it's just a no-frills concert film. I mean, if it was a FICTIONAL film for which Hitchcock wrote the screenplay, now that would be truly tantalizing! But a concert? Ehh, we've seen those. (Anyway, anyone here knows that I prefer RH's disciplined band concerts to his solo-guitar-and-tentacle-talk mode.) >> [Regarding Neutral Milk Hotel] Are the studio efforts different in this >>regard? >> >> Not everything has to be polished and shimmering like XTC, the Beach Boys >> and the Rain Parade.... > >so are we to assume the answer is yes? ;) It's a fair cop. :) Then again, I think the new NeutralMH album is miles better than anything by the Rain Parade. >at the risk of seeming like an asshole, i invite you to consider whether >feg is the proper forum for you to demonstrate your vast scope of music >knowledge. Sheesh...double standard, anyone? That wasn't really the purpose, anyway. I was -- somewhat humorously -- trying to think of all the "annoying" singers I possibly could in a short period of time, and pointing out that I DO enjoy almost all of those singers' music, to varying degrees. Anyway, I would guess that everyone on this list knows (at least) all but 15-20 of those names. As for your direct question, I think trying to "demonstrate vast music knowledge" is far more proper and relevant than trying to "demonstrate vast capacity for writing long, self-indulgent, meaningless surrealistic rambles." Eh? And yet which of these two objectives takes up more space on this list, hmm? No contest. But note that I never complain about Quailspew etc. (though others sometimes do). I almost might mention that I ALWAYS enjoy it when Mistah Godwin "demonstrates his vast scope of music knowledge." Though I'm still pouting over his anti-Pepper comments. ;P >ps. What about robert smith and r. hitchcock? where do they fall on the >annoying voice scale? Robert Smith is fairly annoying, but not quite enough that I'd put him on the list. But I don't own Cure records. I was trying (for the most part) to name annoying singers whom I LIKE. I have stuff by everyone on that previous list -- save, um, Ozzy Osbourne, Babes in Toyland (a recent deletion), Axl Rose, Falco, Peter Stampfel, David Gahan and "that guy in a-ha." I took most of the names out of my own record database. And Hitchcock's voice, annoying? Nah. Just a bit limited in expressiveness. Eb, wondering why the new James Iha album sounds more like the Lilac Time than Smashing Pumpkins PS If you really want to treat my last post as a "test," let's say that I would be impressed if anyone could identify the main bands of all these names: John S. Hall, Graham Lewis, Calvin Johnson, Mark Hosler, Leonard Graves Phillips, Yamatsuka Eye, Michael Gerald, Kurt Wagner, Timmy Taylor, Ray Collins, Kim Shattuck, Tuli Kupferberg, Peter Stampfel, Mac McCaughan, Dagmar Krause, Gibby Haynes, Eric Bachmann, Alison Shaw, Corin Tucker, Scott Miller and Jad Fair. (Not that I want the list clogged up with submitted answers.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:31:19 EST From: MARKEEFE@aol.com Subject: Jandek Eb mentioned Jandek in his list of vocalists who, for one reason or another, are deemed by him to surpass Morrissey in ability to belt out a good tune. For those of you unfamiliar with Jandek, Spin once named him one of their top 10 artists of the 80's, describing his music in such a way that I immediately started trying to hunt down his LPs (with occassional success). It's super-creepy, haunting music -- the kind of stuff that is so subtly and deeply chilling that it's hard to shake off. Well, anyway, I did a little web search and found a place that sells the CDs of his latest four releases, plus the LP of his 5th-most-recent release. I haven't heard any of this particular stuff yet, so I can't recommend any of these titles. But I will check one or two of them out very soon. If you can find a used LP of "The Living End", check it out. That's a great one. Anyway, the direct link to the page where thesnewer Jandek titles are listed for sale is: http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/jandek.html Hope this is interesting to someone! - ------Michael K. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:49:59 -0800 From: "Michael R. Runion" Subject: Re: dense Eb spewed a gushing list... > Here are some other voices which I like better (let's see...): Then continued 5 pages later... > However, I must admit that the annoying qualities of Morrissey's voice are > aggravated by his complete inability to write something resembling a > melody. So that's a factor too. With final piercing jab... > Eb, wishing he was rich enough to spend $400-$500 to see a movie I think Eb is really the personification of the Hellraiser box. Get too close and it sends out all these hooks baited with bloody shards of musical critique eager to rip the flesh off your bones and reduce you to a quivering screaming waste. Quick, look out! - -- ******* Mike Runion email: mrrunion@palmnet.net *** * Virtual Cone Museum * * http://www5.palmnet.net/~mrrunion/cones.htm * * Globe Of Fegs * * http://www5.palmnet.net/~mrrunion/fegmaps/ * ********************************************************* "Wait a minute! Time for a Planetary Sit-In!" - Julian Cope ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:17:04 -0800 From: "Michael R. Runion" Subject: Re: vast musical knowlegde Someone muttered: > I think trying to "demonstrate > vast music knowledge" is far more proper and relevant than trying to > "demonstrate vast capacity for writing long, self-indulgent, meaningless > surrealistic rambles." Eh? Coudn't disagree more. Sounds more like a question between bragging and creativity. I know which I'd choose. In my book, the best way to demonstrate vast music knowledge is to either pick up an instrument and join a band, or write yet another useless and biased Music Encyclopedia. Constant attempts at one-upmanship can grow boring. Granted, it's a free world baby...and I'm sure a fair percentage of y'all get tired of my infrequent posts as well. Signing off in a more frustrated mood than when I signed on. Mike (who took the bait despite his best intentions when he should have been doing his Risk Analysis homework) - -- "Wait a minute! Time for a Planetary Sit-In!" - Julian Cope Rail on, Julian. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 98 19:16:47 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: one prawn swimming against the tide On 2/10/98 5:14 PM, Eb wrote: >And Hitchcock's voice, annoying? Nah. Just a bit limited in expressiveness. > I know I'm gonna catch a lot of shit for this, but his occasional screeching (e.g., most of Eye) makes me run for the hills (which ain't too easy for me!) >PS If you really want to treat my last post as a "test," let's say that I >would be impressed if anyone could identify the main bands of all these >names: John S. Hall King Missile >Kim Shattuck The Muffs >Gibby Haynes Butthole Surfers Wow, I'm so well rounded... - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 23:01:24 -0500 From: nicastr@IDT.NET (Ben) Subject: Re: DENSEb >Eb spewed a gushing list... >> Here are some other voices which I like better (let's see...): > >Then continued 5 pages later... >> However, I must admit that the annoying qualities of Morrissey's voice are >> aggravated by his complete inability to write something resembling a >> melody. So that's a factor too. > >With final piercing jab... >> Eb, wishing he was rich enough to spend $400-$500 to see a movie > >I think Eb is really the personification of the Hellraiser box. Get too >close and it sends out all these hooks baited with bloody shards of >musical critique eager to rip the flesh off your bones and reduce you to >a quivering screaming waste. Quick, look out! >-- You said it, Mike! Seriously, Eb, what is it that makes you rip a new artist to shreds on this list daily? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:03:47 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: one prawn swimming against the tide On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Eb wrote: > >>Eb, wishing he was rich enough to spend $400-$500 to see a movie > >Yeah, you ain't kiddin'. But I'm working on it. It's all a matter of > >priorities. > Yes, exactly. I choose food. ;) Well, yeah, I HAVE food. I'm debating about rent. > If it was a question of seeing the film vs. NOT seeing the film, ehh...all > right. But when someone can see the same film for $7 (or $1!) with minimal > effort if he's just willing to wait a bit, I dunno. In that case, a > long-distance trip gets filed under "weenieism" with me. After all, it's > just a no-frills concert film. I mean, if it was a FICTIONAL film for which > Hitchcock wrote the screenplay, now that would be truly tantalizing! But a > concert? Ehh, we've seen those. (Anyway, anyone here knows that I prefer > RH's disciplined band concerts to his solo-guitar-and-tentacle-talk mode.) Well, there are a couple of points here. First is that I'm in Portland, Oregon and not LA. The chances of seeing it here are much more slim. Also, there's more to SXSW than Storefront Hitchcock. There's a live show and The Big Lebowski. That means there's even a chance of a word or two by Demme and the Coens. All kinds of good things. > >at the risk of seeming like an asshole, i invite you to consider whether > >feg is the proper forum for you to demonstrate your vast scope of music > >knowledge. > Sheesh...double standard, anyone? That wasn't really the purpose, anyway. I > was -- somewhat humorously -- trying to think of all the "annoying" singers > I possibly could in a short period of time, and pointing out that I DO > enjoy almost all of those singers' music, to varying degrees. Anyway, I > would guess that everyone on this list knows (at least) all but 15-20 of > those names. As for your direct question, I think trying to "demonstrate > vast music knowledge" is far more proper and relevant than trying to > "demonstrate vast capacity for writing long, self-indulgent, meaningless > surrealistic rambles." Eh? And yet which of these two objectives takes up > more space on this list, hmm? No contest. But note that I never complain > about Quailspew etc. (though others sometimes do). I loved your list and found it hilarious. Come on, people, it was folks he found less annoying than Morrissey. Can we just respect opinions for the pointless things they are? No reason to argue them. James Brockman said the most interesting thing on this subject: The literary culture was an establishment that dictated fashionable discourse. It favored opinions and ideology over empirical testing of ideas -- commentary spiraling upon commentary. (as a cultural force, it's a dead end.) I can't believe anyone can be frustrated by commentary in a forum like this one (as opposed to irrational commentary given as fact to an unsuspecting and uninformed audience). You kids are smart and know opinion when you see it. Let it be. I thought it was a fun and relevant post. > PS If you really want to treat my last post as a "test," let's say that I > would be impressed if anyone could identify the main bands of all these > names: John S. Hall, Graham Lewis, Calvin Johnson, Mark Hosler, Leonard > Graves Phillips, Yamatsuka Eye, Michael Gerald, Kurt Wagner, Timmy Taylor, > Ray Collins, Kim Shattuck, Tuli Kupferberg, Peter Stampfel, Mac McCaughan, > Dagmar Krause, Gibby Haynes, Eric Bachmann, Alison Shaw, Corin Tucker, > Scott Miller and Jad Fair. (Not that I want the list clogged up with > submitted answers.) See, I think this is really stupid and pointless to research, but heaps of fun to read over and see how many you can pick out by sight. Me, I'm only up for like two. So calm down. J. ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V7 #51 ******************************