From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V6 #33 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Sunday, October 12 1997 Volume 06 : Number 033 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Stones Vs. Beatles [Noah Shalev ] Re: Stones Vs. Beatles [hal brandt ] Re: Unreleased/covers ["Donkey Hodie" ] ultra klene (not to be confused with superkeen) ["Eddie Tews" ] Brenda Of The Lightbulb Eyes [Carl Abraham Zimring ] Re: blues guitar [Carl Abraham Zimring ] Attention Tapers (NR) [Della & Steve Schiavo ] Re: setlist: princess di memorial gig 31 aug 1997 [delavina@juno.com (chr] big hole [hal brandt ] Re: big hole and that private gig stuff... ["Children's Television Worshi] Re: Sartwell's folly [james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan)] Re: the Higsons, and a plug for yet more NZ music (sorry!) [james.dignan@] Re: the Higsons, and a plug for yet more NZ music (sorry!) [Eb Subject: Re: Stones Vs. Beatles Message-ID: <343F53D2.E35@corky.net> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 12:24:18 +0200 From: Noah Shalev X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hedblade@aol.com Subject: Re: Stones Vs. Beatles References: <971008024137_-1060188098@emout12.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hedblade@aol.com wrote: > > Hi Fegs, > > Here's a line from a little rootsy blues ditty that I'd like to dedicate to > the professor who said the Stones were a better rock ban than the Beatles. > > "You're just trash / And you're a loser." > > Thank you, and goodnight. > > Sincerely, > > Jay H. Hi Fegs thiis is somthing i can't really understand, lets pressume uy can define a rock band, how the hell u grade a rock band 'goodness'? Now, it is obvious the Stones were (and are) a 'better rock group', I would even say a more importrant group, nevertheless, i think the contribution made by both bands, to the pop/rock scene, was amplified by the existing of each other. but as i say ranking it sounds a whole lotta crap. which prooves music is the best... by the way, i don't think that photographing with Carkie Watts was the fact made Paul Mc'Cartney a looser, although it could point it out... or as we usually say, good and good music are at least the sum up of bad and music influances. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 10:16:17 -0600 From: hal brandt Subject: Re: Stones Vs. Beatles Noah Shalev babbled: > by the way, i don't think that photographing with Carkie Watts was the > fact made Paul Mc'Cartney a looser, although it could point it out... > or as we usually say, good and good music are at least the sum up of bad > and music influances. what the-? /hal PS- Check out "Flaming Pie"...it's really good. Better than "Bridges to Boredom", at least! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 09:08:04 -0700 From: "Donkey Hodie" Subject: Re: Unreleased/covers Ferris dixit: About covers: > Waterloo Sunset > The Wind Cries Mary > Some Kind of Love > Caroline Says > Strawberry Fields > A Day In the Life > Kung Fu Fighting > Ghost in You > Cold Turkey > Arthur Lane (and all the other Syd covers) > Odds & Ends (and " " Dylan covers) > and a couple of Van Morrison covers I can't quite remember the names > to... At an in-store appearance at Rough Trade Records on April 29, 1993, I remember him playing "Baby You're A Rich Man", "Mystery Train" (also on _Soft Boys 1976-1981_) & "Good Rockin' Tonight". At a show in Palo Alto at The Edge (1991, maybe? Early 1992..Perspex Tour), he played "Blowin' In The Wind", as per my request :-). "Kung Fu Fighting" and "Eight Miles High" were also performed at that show, not to mention the shows at Slim's in SF and the Great American Music Hall in SF on the same tour. I don't know if tapes for these shows exist, however... Here are some other covers that have appeared on rekkid: "Heartbreak Hotel" "That's When Your Heartaches Begin" "I Like Bananas" "Gigolo Aunt" "Astronomy Domine" "Vegetable Man" "Wyld Mountain Thyme"[sic] "I'm Set Free" I had too much to dream last night, - --g "Everything we do is music." --John Cage ___________________________________________________ Glen E. Uber glen@metro.net http://metro.net/glen/ ___________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 11:29:25 PDT From: "Eddie Tews" Subject: ultra klene (not to be confused with superkeen) "A little less you talk; a little more you think." that's a quote from Miller's Crossing, of course, and it was to be my new motto, capuchin. really. but that lasted all of three days, two of which i didn't even check my mail. anyhow... i too have complete faith in the lobsterman's ability to select the best versions for SURFER GHOST PART 2 (who came up with the name "Surfer Ghost," by the way? that's just brilliant. hopefully the new title will be as clever as that one.) but i would like to lobby for last year's 9:30 Club (washington, dc) version of 1974, where he says "FUCKER" rather than "mother." that's the only version i've heard where he says that, presumably because he was in dc. s'pose it might not be generic enough, because he does say, "meanwhile, here in washington..." i'd love it all the same. also, how about both the acoustic version of Viva Sea-Tac, and the full band version (complete with the spell-along that precedes it, and the factoid list that postcedes it?) and it would be great if some of the readings could be iterspersed. make it a 100 minute tape, eh? >TV: never watch the thing, except for the odd A&E Biography or >CNN. King of the Hill is superb though. testify, brother! i can't see how anyone could say that anything other than The Simpsons (what, four times as many episodes as Flying Circus, and still counting) is the greatest tv show of all times. however, i think it has dropped to number 2 at the present moment, behind King of the Hill. lordy, that's a great show. >Bob Brozman, a great musicologist and musician says that "great >blues exists in every culture where white men have exerted >dominance." that's one of the best fuckin' quotes i've ever seen! somebody really oughta put that in their sig. hell, maybe i will. >>the reader is forced to figure it out for fegself. hey, this has been >>buggin me-- where is the "feed the fish" version of underwater >>moonlight from? {originally... gig and/or rekkid} >it's in the live version on 'lope at the hive' or 'hive at the lope' (I >always get those confused). the TWO HALVES version ("hey man, i'm only getting this in one ear!") is delightful indeed. but the one on 1976-1981, ("twirling her finger in a can of baked beans,") is, i think, even better. don't know where that one originally came from, and don't know which one bayard was referring to. you know, it doesn't really sound like it's live, though. ok, you might wanna skip this because it's gonna be pretty ridiculous. but, i was listening to another robynterview last night (thanks woj!) and, talking about Devil's Radio, he said (this is a paraphrase) that he'd once written a song about the devil listening to a progressive radio station in a posh london suburb called frognal: "Lucifer in Frognal, whoa oh oh..." now, color me a freagin' moron (as if you hadn't already,) but, all these years i'd thought it was lucifer AND frognal. i thought lucifer and frognal were two teenaged boys. and though i didn't think lucifer was exactly the devil, the name does conjure up images, and frognal itself is a pretty spooky name. actually, the image that line always evoked was the scene at the beginning of ralph bakshi's Lord of the Rings: you know, the history of the one ring. i saw that movie in the theater when i was...nine, i guess. and that scene had always stuck with me, and i always thought of it when listening to Higsons. here's the problem, though. i'd always thought that robyn (or whoever the protagonist is) was, like, in the next room from lucifer and frognal, listening to *them* sing along to the radio ("thought i heard them signing...'gotta let this hen out.'") but if it's lucifer *in* frognal, rather than lucifer *and* frognal, who is "them" referring to? must be the higsons themselves. (which would be why carolyn hamilton's discography says, "it really does sound like they're singing 'gotta let this hen out'") but then why even mention lucifer at all? is robyn referring to himself as lucifer? can't be! is anybody following this? because i don't think i am. maybe it's actually, "i thought i heard *him* singing," not *them.* that would make more sense. but it sure has always sounded like "them" to me. right-o. i hope y'all ignored all that. Fuck You! I won't do what you tell me! (repeat fourteen times) --Rage Against the Machine ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 14:48:18 -0400 From: dee zed stroke zero one five Subject: Re: ultra klene (not to be confused with superkeen) also sprach Eddie Tews: >a posh london suburb called frognal: y'know...what we need poor americans *really* need, even more than a list of men's names in robyn's songs, is an gazeteer of all the place names that robyn mentions in his songs: swindon, east grinstead, romsey, etc. the multitude of english geopolitical divisions frazzle me almost, but not quite, as much as the multitude of dialects! +w ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 15:05:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Carl Abraham Zimring Subject: Re: Unreleased/covers Excerpts from internet.music.fegmaniax: 10-Oct-97 Unreleased/covers by Ferris@snet.net > and a couple of Van Morrison covers I can't quite remember the names > to... > These would be "Fair Play" and "Linden Arden Stole the Highlights" from Van's _Veedon Fleece_ album. Lovely covers with Andy on piano. Fear & Whiskey countrypunkROKnewwavenoisejazzpyschedelicpopbluesfolkcelticsoulandmore Mondays 7-10pm EDT In Pittsburgh: WRCT 88.3fm In the rest of the known universe: http://www.wrct.org Playlists: http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/~cz28/fear.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 15:02:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Carl Abraham Zimring Subject: Brenda Of The Lightbulb Eyes Excerpts from internet.music.fegmaniax: 10-Oct-97 Thanks for the King Crimson.. by Gene Hopstetter, Jr.@edo > Obligatory Robyn info: I snagged a copy of the "Brenda Of The Lightbulb > Eyes" video for $5 a coupla weekends ago. Woop! I'm VERY jealous. Oh, to own that comp.... Fear & Whiskey countrypunkROKnewwavenoisejazzpyschedelicpopbluesfolkcelticsoulandmore Mondays 7-10pm EDT In Pittsburgh: WRCT 88.3fm In the rest of the known universe: http://www.wrct.org Playlists: http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/~cz28/fear.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 15:01:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Carl Abraham Zimring Subject: Re: blues guitar Excerpts from internet.music.fegmaniax: 10-Oct-97 Country boy..... by Stephen Buckalew@minitab > 'm sure that the evolution of blues had a variety of > influences to become what is considered "blues". The blues didn't just pop > out of nowhere as a "pure" musical form. Not to mention that blues and country came out of a shared musical heritage. The difference between Jimmie Rodgers and Robert Lockwood's not all that great (hence Harry Smith was able to market Mississippi John Hurt as a "folk" artist by not revealing Hurt was African-American). It's all American folk music, cousins to Bert Jansch, Martin Carthy, Richard Thompson, and other Hitchcock faves (how was that for bringing it back home?)... Fear & Whiskey countrypunkROKnewwavenoisejazzpyschedelicpopbluesfolkcelticsoulandmore Mondays 7-10pm EDT In Pittsburgh: WRCT 88.3fm In the rest of the known universe: http://www.wrct.org Playlists: http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/~cz28/fear.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 97 15:05:18 -0000 From: Della & Steve Schiavo Subject: Attention Tapers (NR) Don't know how many Fegs read the audio mags, but there is a new mirophone setup that might be of interest to serious tapers. The Sonic Studios DSM system is a set of mics that go on eyeglasses - slide them forward for stereo recording and back toward the ears for binaural. Pretty cool - but they're not cheap (hundreds, but I don't remember how many). There's an ad on page 42 of Audio magazine for October. Too bad there's not a web page. [sonicstudios@compuserve.com or 888/875-4976] - - Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 17:02:56 EDT From: delavina@juno.com (chris franz) Subject: Re: setlist: princess di memorial gig 31 aug 1997 Bayard said: > if we do comission a robyn gig, i'm there. hey, he's >done two special events and a soft boys reunion over yonder, and it's >us crazy americans who really pay his bills! as he said at the gig, "i >live over there but i work here." That's an interesting point; the USA has the population base to support a "cult" artist like Robyn, but for the more relaxed, informal stuff like the bus tour or boat gig, he'd rather do it closer to home. Understandable, but it niggles at my sense of fairness. Granted, he did film his movie in New York, and there have been occasional unannounced shows like the Two Bells thing (though he's certainly done more small clubs in the UK), but has there really been anything here comparable to those special events? Perhaps a more appropriate question would be what could he do over here? A gig on a train? A boat trip in the Potomac, or Puget Sound? An event at the Monterey aquarium? A gig _in_ the space needle? - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 15:50:20 -0600 From: hal brandt Subject: big hole chris franz wrote: > Perhaps a more appropriate question would be what could he do over here? > A gig on a train? A boat trip in the Potomac, or Puget Sound? An event > at the Monterey aquarium? A gig _in_ the space needle? Something in a National Park might be nice...the rim of the Grand Canyon maybe? Dreaming, /hal ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 18:09:59 -0700 (PDT) From: "Children's Television Worship" Subject: Re: big hole and that private gig stuff... How about him playing in Jasper, Wyoming? ta, .chris (P.S. Just to make a two sentence post and please Mr. Tews for a short while, I would suggest also he could play a gig in a place more odd than the Space Needle...The National Bowling Stadium!!) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 15:47:51 +1300 (NZDT) From: james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan) Subject: Re: Sartwell's folly >> what a load of bollocks! >> (academic mode off) > >Um... Yeah. I noticed your academic mode was off. Try turning it on >before commenting on academics, ok? erm... actually, my academic mode was on - I somehow managed to snip it from the first part of the message before it got sent (academic in the sense that my area of psychological expertise is aesthetics and perception). However this did catch me a bit offguard - quantitative aesthetics requires a range of criteria which should not be set arbitrarily by one researcher, although it *can* be, in order to prove a point, as it seems to have been in this case. The criterion set for rock, that it needs to be as close to the blues as possible, is to deny that rock music has any worth other than as ersatz blues. The "pretentiousness", which Sartwell seems to think diminishes the worth of rock songs, is an integral part of what much rock music is all about, and (IMHO) should be factored in as a positive feature, up to a certain limit. Only once that limit is superceded should it be regarded in a negative context. Then you should factor in the influence from other fields, like country, reggae, folk, etc etc etc As for blues having zero distance and therefore being unable to be calculated on this scale: it may be at an asymptote, but as x->0, lim x -> infinity. Thus if a blues song is played with one bum note, it suddenly becomes an infinitely worthy rock song. Yeah, I know, this is a bit of an exaggeration, but it does stress the fact that according to Sartwell's calculations, rock has little going for it other than as a replica of blues. Then again, we're getting this info second hand. Press releases often bear no resemblance to the papers they're supposedly reporting. James James Dignan___________________________________ You talk to me Deptmt of Psychology, Otago University As if from a distance ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk Street And I reply. . . . . . . . . . Dunedin, New Zealand with impressions chosen from another time steam megaphone (03) 455-7807 (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 16:32:37 +1300 (NZDT) From: james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan) Subject: Re: the Higsons, and a plug for yet more NZ music (sorry!) Re the Higsons, I don't know much about their music, but... >GUEST MUSICIANS - >Vocals - Tessa Niles, Wendy Billingsly, Ingrid Schroeder Keybards - Steve >Borowski, Pete Saunders, Danny White, Frog Strings - Susie Honeyman ...I like the idea of any band that uses frog strings. I know that Eb was recently grumbling about me constantly mentioning NZ music, but I'm about to do it again (ah well, it'll keep him happy to have something to grumble about :) I've just heard "Take in the Sun", the first album from Bike, the new band of Andrew Brough (the gentler, more melodic voice of Straitjacket Fits). I think I'm in love... James ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 21:36:52 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: the Higsons, and a plug for yet more NZ music (sorry!) >I know that Eb was recently grumbling about me constantly mentioning NZ >music, but I'm about to do it again (ah well, it'll keep him happy to have >something to grumble about :) No, I didn't grumble AT ALL about you mentioning NZ music. (I adore the stuff, though my tastes seem to be a bit "crunchier" than yours.) I grumbled about the tendency of you (and other NZers I know) to think that EVERYTHING rips off NZ pop. ;P Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 01:00:17 EDT From: delavina@juno.com (chris franz) Subject: Re: Sartwell's folly james indignantly pointed out: >The "pretentiousness", which Sartwell >seems to think diminishes the worth of rock songs, is an integral part of >what much rock music is all about, and (IMHO) should be factored in as >a positive feature, up to a certain limit. Only once that limit is superceded >should it be regarded in a negative context. Sartwell described "pretentiousness" as a ratio of artistic ambition to artistic accomplishment. Is _that_ notion of pretentiousness something you regard as positive? Are you saying that if a rock band thinks they're much better than they are, this is a good feature, "up to a certain limit"? Don't get me wrong, a healthy dose of arrogance has served many bands quite well. And I would say that Sartwell is unreasonable to penalize a band or artist for just having an ego, as this formula says (is a 8:8 band really any less worthwhile than a 1:8 band?) Certainly you'll get a different style for the ego-ridden band (maybe a bit more produced, dealing with more beefy subject matter) but if the music's solid enough to back up their ego, what's the problem? [snip] >Then again, we're getting this info second hand. Press releases often >bear no resemblance to the papers they're supposedly reporting. Not to be forgotten. - --Chris NP: Shriekback "Care" (relentlessly pretentious band, but I don't care) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 02:22:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Terrence M Marks Subject: Re: the Higsons, and a plug for yet more NZ music (sorry!) > No, I didn't grumble AT ALL about you mentioning NZ music. (I adore the > stuff, though my tastes seem to be a bit "crunchier" than yours.) I > grumbled about the tendency of you (and other NZers I know) to think that > EVERYTHING rips off NZ pop. ;P The value of a song can be determined by how much it rips off of NZ pop, though... Terrence Marks normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V6 #33 ******************************