From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org To: fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org Reply-To: fegmaniax@ecto.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org Subject: Feg Digest V5 #193 Fegmaniax Digest Volume 5 Number 193 Thursday August 7 1997 To post, send mail to fegmaniax@ecto.org To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@ecto.org with the words "unsubscribe fegmaniax-digest" in the message body. Send comments, etc. to the listowner at owner-fegmaniax@ecto.org FegMANIAX! Web Page: http://remus.rutgers.edu/~woj/fegmaniax/index.html Archives are available at ftp://www.ecto.org/pub/lists/fegmaniax/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Today's Topics: ------- ------- Re: "Hang the judges high" Re: "Hang the judges high" Doctor, doctor, I'm on fire Rout of the "Loathes" Re: "Hang the judges high", topicality, Nirvana popper stopper RE: popping the question (Re: the popper/pauper question) Re: popper stopper Songwriting, Diversity, Accents.... topical Re: "Hang the judges high" Re: "Hang the judges high" Diversity Fun With A.C.R.O.N.Y.M.S. Re: THE SOFT BOYS REUNITE? Re: topical Robyn 'All at Sea' RE: popping the question... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 23:45:57 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: "Hang the judges high" >>Um...how many Neil Young records have you heard?? He blows >>away Hitchcock in the "diversity" category! Hell, he blows >>away almost ANYONE...except of course my beloved Elvis. ;) > >Hmm....I've got to say that The Kinks, The Beach Boys and The >Monkees are probably more diverse than Neil Young... Um...how many Neil Young records have you heard?? Eb PS And yes, I meant Elvis *Costello*, not Presley. You can all yell and scream as much as you want, but I'm never going to concede that Hitchcock is in Costello's league. :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 04:29:35 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: "Hang the judges high" >> Um...how many Neil Young records have you heard?? > >Harvest and one other one whose name I forget..(maybe two other ones..) Uh-huh...there ya go. >However, when it comes to diverse, I firmly believe that No-One can beat >the Kinks. Ray Davies, whose self-recycling is absolutely LEGENDARY, is the master of diversity? Pshaw. I don't think you've heard enough music to have a properly informed viewpoint. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 08:55:37 -0400 From: Natalie Jacobs Subject: Doctor, doctor, I'm on fire >p.s. I know a lot of fegs don't like the Queen Elvis album...but do any >of you like OLPOE? Ol' Poe's pretty cool - I like "The Cask of Amontillado" the best. "One Long Pair of Eyes" is also cool. Very atmospheric and beautiful - one of my favorite tracks on "Queen Elvis." >Robyn decided that he will no longer work with a record company, will >produce his albums from his kitchen and market them only through the >Internet and will only press the CDs after 200 fans have ordered them. >And on top of that, he charges $50-$75 per? Would you order or would you >feel manipulated? A tricky question. I really like the DIY attitude, although, as someone pointed out, this method does tend to limit the number of people who get to listen to the music. But anything that's a poke in the eye for the record industry is fine by me. However, if charging $50-$75 was really necessary, I don't know what I'd do. As someone who's tried to self-publish - not as demanding as self-producing, but still pretty difficult - I know how expensive the DIY route can be, and how it can be necessary to over-price. But at the same time, I find it ludicrous to pay $50 for a piece of plastic, no matter how glorious the music imprinted on it. Besides which, I know from experience that any "limited edition" will quickly be bootlegged and available for little or no money not long after the album's release. I'd probably just end up mooching tapes off other Fegs. I know, I'm shameless, but I suspect a lot of other people would be doing it, too. Not everyone has cash coming out the ears, and as much as I'd like to fund Robyn's endeavors, $50-$75 is asking too much. I'd have to stick with buying his back catalogue instead. n., who's sad to hear that, squire ------------------------------ From: HAMISH_SIMPSON@HP-UnitedKingdom-om4.om.hp.com Date: Thu, 7 Aug 97 14:15:42 +0100 Subject: Rout of the "Loathes" TO: fegmaniax@ecto.org Noticed that someone opened the "loathe/loave" discussion again and the studio version on "Invisible Hits" is clearly "loave" if you use headphones and keep playing it over and over again. Besides, the usual argument against "loave" is that would be silly to try and rhyme "love" with "stove" by deliberately skewing the pronunciation. I say, remember who we're talking about. (H) NP - Soft Boys "Invisible Hits" (by complete coincidence) "Play it to me dismally Kimberly." And that's supposed to be any more likely???? ------------------------------ From: Mark_Gloster@3com.com Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 07:01:16 -0700 Subject: Re: "Hang the judges high", topicality, Nirvana Neil Young is extremely diverse. Every new album of his that comes out sounds completely different, and I usually don't like it on the first listen. Sometimes he warms up quickly on me. Elvis Costello and Ray Davies, while they are both great songwriters, don't strike me as incredibly musically diverse from song to song. Eric Dolphe is musically diverse and I'd rather stick long spikes through my head than listen to much of his shtuff. -- Egyptian Cream- that's topical, you just rub it on your skin. Sorry. -- If not for Eb's previous taste admissions, I would have been concerned if Eb was confusing topicality with lack of humor. Perhaps he does equate songs of light silliness and about chyx-who-might-be-a- teents-sinister-and-perhaps-and-I'm-only- suggesting-happy with a shallow pool of experience. For me, between Robyn's snapshots that describe the flavo(u)r of everything in the room, and his descriptions of real experiences, I don't feel threatened by his dimensionality. The songs that make me most uncomfortable are his showboating wacky zany brit love tunes, which do strike me as a small veneer. On the good side, they are also terribly signature-piece types which makes them unlikely for mass consumption. Yes, I'm referring to "I Something You" and that one I always forget (I think Woj agrees on that one). Umm. Why does a song have to be topical for it to be important. Does a limerick require the noun "Nantucket" for it to be great? It is hard for a work to live a long healthy life if it is too specific. Some of Robyn's great power resides in his ability to create a work that the listener may interpret. He is refreshing after so much literal works that can be insanely boring to me. -- Oh. Nirvana. I didn't like In Utero as much as Nevermind, though I think I can admit its better lyrics. I think Nevermind captured the feeling and energy of the band that caused them to become such an important band. They were certainly better than their lyrics would suggest. -- Remember, as always, IMHO is invoked liberally. -Mark Gloster "Slideshow boring... losing conciousness" -The Tick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 09:39:41 -0400 From: Scott Hunter McCleary Subject: popper stopper A big sweaty guy breathing through a harmonica? Just a guess. Someday we all could have a 50-inch waist. Scott Hunter McCleary 3052 S. Buchanan St., #A-1 Arlington, VA 22206 shmac@prodigaldog.com Prodigal Dog Communications: http://prodigaldog.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 09:21:48 -0500 From: LSDiamond Subject: RE: popping the question (Re: the popper/pauper question) >> >Not to mention "she the one i love/I put her on the stove.." when you >> >read it, it looks like it rhymes, yes? >> >> I always assumed it was 'she the one i loave....' because that would >> rhyme and it seemed to be the kind of perverse twist that Robyn >> would be prone to doing, especially around the time of Invisible >> Hits. I could well be wrong though..... If it *was* "she's the one I loave", it could be connected to the line in "Bass" that says "he'd never make love to a loaf of bread".. Twists of perversion run rampant! LSDiamond Bad Cop, no doughnut... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Have you been exceptionally bad lately? Come serve your penance at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/1542/penance1.html You'll never commit THAT sin again! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 09:23:55 -0500 From: LSDiamond Subject: Re: popper stopper >A big sweaty guy breathing through a harmonica? Just a guess. > >Someday we all could have a 50-inch waist. LOL I was waiting for someone to make that connection... Actually, a Popper stopper would be a cap for the end of the harmonica so it wouldn't make any noise. LSDiamond Bad Cop, no doughnut... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Have you been exceptionally bad lately? Come serve your penance at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/1542/penance1.html You'll never commit THAT sin again! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 11:10:26 -0400 From: Stephen Buckalew Subject: Songwriting, Diversity, Accents.... I know I'm new here....but here goes... In response to E. Tews and Eb's discussion about R.H.'s musical diversity...it seems to me that if Robyn's material overall has an similar sound or style, than that is because it is his own particular artistic voice. I'm a songwriter, and no matter what type of song I set out to write, it always ends up having a certain sound underneath the outer trappings, and that sound is my own particular musical personality. I don't seem to have alot of choice about it. Robyn's had songs like "Have a Heart" that is somewhat like 50's do-wop, to songs like "Sleeping Knights of Jesus" that sounds country, but they all have that certain style that is R. Hitchcock. Robyn has put out 20 years and 16 albums worth of consistently good material. That's a significant accomplishment. Also, not all of Robyn's songs are about insects...."Serpent at the Gates of Wisdom" and "Driving Aloud (Radio Storm)" for instance. He writes about the events in his life, about love, about death, about all sorts of little details of life (and some that don't exist in the "real" world), and yes, that includes fish and insects. I for one am not particularly interested in political soapboxing from musical artists, I can hear plenty of those on the T.V. or in the newspaper or from my co-workers. However, this is only my opinion. I like R. Hitchcock for reasons I can't fully explain....it's just that his music reaches me in a certain way that I like. Music and art, when it comes down to the nitty gritty, is pretty subjective. One person might be moved by something another person may find boring or ridicules. If something you create has value to one other person, that's all that matters. And finally on the matter of accents, regional differences really do make a difference. In "Kingdom of Love" --Aren't and Plant-- rhyme in Robyn's British accent, but don't sound alike at all in my central Pennsylvania dialect! I'm looking forward to meeting some of the Fegmaniax at the Robyn at Sea concert. My ticket is waiting for me at the Lymington pier when I get over to the U.K., so I haven't seen what my piece of the puzzle looks like yet. <~~~Buckeye~~~> ***************************************************************************** "...everythings all on...it's rosy...it's a beautiful day!"--Syd Barrett ***************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 97 08:13:00 -0800 From: Russ Reynolds Subject: topical >It is hard for a >work to live a long healthy life if it is too >specific. I'm not sure Hitchcock (or any artist for that matter) thinks about the longevity of his songs when sits down to write them, but that's a very good point. See "Careers: Jackson Browne" for more. Or dig out your old "General Hospi-tale" 45 and see if it still makes sense to you. I read an article recently about TV shows that had re-run staying power, and the key to such was lack of topicality. A show like "Seinfeld" will probably be in reruns for years, while "Murphy Brown," with almost every joke a topical one, will probably not seem nearly as funny in twenty years. -rr ------------------------------ From: Terrence M Marks Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 11:37:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: "Hang the judges high" > > > >Harvest and one other one whose name I forget..(maybe two other ones..) > > Uh-huh...there ya go. Well, how diverse/impressive is Mr. Young? He always seemed to be ither straightforwards rock ro straightforwards folk.. > > >However, when it comes to diverse, I firmly believe that No-One can beat > >the Kinks. > > Ray Davies, whose self-recycling is absolutely LEGENDARY, is the master of > diversity? Pshaw. I don't think you've heard enough music to have a > properly informed viewpoint. Yeah there's the Destroyer/All Day/You Really Got me trilogy.. But, I mean, you've got things like Preservation 2, which is as diverse as you can get...(diverse to the point where genres regularly switch mid-spng...it sounds hideous, but it *is* diverse). I could point out twenty entirely dissimilar Kinks songs if I felt so inclined... I always thought that the Kinks' diversity was one of their legendary traits (as per Arthur, VGPS, etc.) Terrence Marks Remember-Jesus is your friend. normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 11:24:19 -0500 (CDT) From: donald andrew snyder Subject: Re: "Hang the judges high" On Thu, 7 Aug 1997, Terrence M Marks wrote: > Well, how diverse/impressive is Mr. Young? > He always seemed to be ither straightforwards rock ro straightforwards > folk.. At a Neil Young show you're likely to hear acoustic folk, something on piano or organ, and his electric wailings. Granted that most of this difference has to do with his resources, but he does manage to include a variety of songs from his equally long career. Fortunately, he doesn't do much of his 80's output: There's a sign of diversity gone bad or maybe just another indication that the 90s are a breath of fresh air. His albums also share the same variety. Listen to Freedom to hear the softness of "Wrecking Ball" or the intensity of "Don't Cry." Lyrically, however, The Kinks and Robyn are much more creative. I would rather hear unique songwriting than a unique sound, but that's probably because it's so rare. Check out Van Morrison's long, winding career. Regards, Andy ------------------------------ From: TrudiRose@aol.com Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:20:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Diversity Regarding RH's diversity or lack thereof, Eb wrote: << Y'know, but all you're talking about mostly is surface stuff...window dressing. The same songwriting style wrapped up in different packaging. It's still all jangly and folk/Beatles-derived.>> I totally disagree! I think Robyn is VERY diverse. Listen to "Vyrna Knowl is a Headbanger," then "Flavour of Night," then "Strawberry Mind," then "Uncorrected Personality Traits," then "Sleeping Knights of Jesus." Do you REALLY think all those songs are in a similar style? When I first got into Robyn's music, one thing that impressed me a lot was that it WAS very diverse (IMHO). Trudi ------------------------------ From: "Elvis Christ Superstar" Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 11:31:30 -0800 Subject: Fun With A.C.R.O.N.Y.M.S. CC: The Warm Long Heat Of Love Russ Reynolds sez: > However, I'd be interested to know what others think of DKGT, > SDIOWWE and SKJHDFIVUGKBSDFVKLIHOSFIHVBGIKWUGDVC, which are among my > faves. You are obviously referring to: "Delinquent Krauts Getting Tanked" "Sadistic, Domineering, Intensely Overbearing Women With Estrogen" and "Some Kids Just Having Drinks, Fucking In Vans, Upchucking Gin & Kool-Aid, Bong-Smoking, Destroying (the) Family Vehicles, Killing Lillies In Hayward (but) Our Son Finds It Hard to Vacate Because Government Informants Know Where Ugly Girls Dance (with) Vacationing Communists" I must say that I agree with you wholeheartedly, Russ -- all of these are classics in their time. Too bad they couldn't reach a wider audience... Having my soul dry-cleaned, --g 'Excretium vincit cerebellum.' __________________________________________________ Glen Uber glen@metro.net http://metro.net/glen __________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: "Elvis Christ Superstar" Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 11:51:31 -0800 Subject: Re: THE SOFT BOYS REUNITE? jeffery vaska sez: > hi gang, well i too have heard the stories about kimberly and robyn > doing some stuff recently, but i found some info at the warner/robyn > site - is this for real? (note: posted on august 4)... > > FROM: Sleepy > DATE: Mon Aug 4 08:17:42 PDT 1997 > Guess what? I saw the Soft Boys last night! It was an unexpected > (for me) reunion gig at a friend's party! Robyn, Andy, Morris, > Kimberley Rew and Matthew Seligman were there. Andy and Matthew > played the same bass - together, at the same time! The set list was > as follows:- Give it to the Soft Boys, Where are the Prawns? Bells > of Rhymney, Queen of Eyes, Mystery Train, I like bananas (because > they have no bones), Underwater Moonlight, Beautiful Queen and > Listening to the Higsons. It was great!. > > i haven't heard anybody mention this in the last couple of days... > > geez, what a party we all missed... > If this is real, I feel the symptoms of a very loud shout coming on from Santa Rosa, CA. "1-2, Great to be here!!", "Sure Is, 3-4!!!" I wanna know, really really wanna know if this is indeed true. Maybe it's Herr Hitchcock himself posting a bogus note because of John reading the (otherwise) private note on the vback of the setlist. Maybe it was The Great Quail, gone mad with embarassment because of the revelation that he's into avian S&M. This was the only way he knew to get back at Mark for "outing" him. Perhaps it was Terry Marks; crazy from the Florida heat. Maybe it was Michael "I have always thought, in the back of my mind, Cheese And" Runion as a way to entice people to take a look at the cones of Mssrs. Gloster and Clark. (What weird guys those two are -- doing that stuff with cones...What were you thinking???) ;) Or it could have been real... Sounds like a job for Robert Stack ;) Crazy from the heat myself, --g 'Excretium vincit cerebellum.' __________________________________________________ Glen Uber glen@metro.net http://metro.net/glen __________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: "Elvis Christ Superstar" Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 12:21:50 -0800 Subject: Re: topical Russ Reynolds sez: > I'm not sure Hitchcock (or any artist for that matter) thinks about > the longevity of his songs when sits down to write them, but that's > a very good point. See "Careers: Jackson Browne" for more. Or dig > out your old "General Hospi-tale" 45 and see if it still makes sense > to you. > Good point, Russ. Ringo Starr didn't think the Beatles would last much past 1964. He was planning to buy a chain of ladies' hair salons and live out his days as a hairdresser. I really don't think Robyn thinks of himself as a preacher or social commentator. He's had enough contact with people who are (Michael Stipe, Billy Bragg, et. al.) that leads me to believe that he could go in that direction if he wished. I think he's just having a good time writing and playing his songs. If they happen to be topical or if someone can find a message in them that encourages that person to lead a better life or create a better world, so be it. I just don't think Robyn sets out with that in mind when he writes a song. There are enough Stings and Bonos in this world already. I think Robyn realizes this and, consciously or not, avoids it. > I read an article recently about TV shows that had re-run staying > power, and the key to such was lack of topicality. A show like > "Seinfeld" will probably be in reruns for years, while "Murphy > Brown," with almost every joke a topical one, will probably not seem > nearly as funny in twenty years. A good example of this is M*A*S*H. Although the show was set during the Korean Conflict, it was obviously a thinly disguised reference to Vietnam. The jokes were topical in that they were war-related, yet I still get a chuckle now and then from the show because it deals not so much with war, but with how people interact with each other when forced to live in close quarters for long periods of time. In a way, I guess M*A*S*H was the original "Real World": "This is the story of several strangers, picked to live in a Mobile Army Surgical Hospital and have their lives taped to see what happens when people stop fighting wars and start getting real." As for "Murphy Brown", I don't think it's funny now, let alone twenty years down the road. Hotter than cool in Nor Cal, --g 'Excretium vincit cerebellum.' __________________________________________________ Glen Uber glen@metro.net http://metro.net/glen __________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: NJARMAN@frmail.frco.com Subject: Robyn 'All at Sea' Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 05:37:05 -0500 We got our four tickets today 43 -> 46. They look pretty cool. I think building the complete 'sea scape' during the interlude sounds like a good idea. I lookforward to meeting some of you on the boat (especially Mike Godwin) I'll be the big guy with reeceding hair in the green Moss Elixier T-Shirt. So don't be shy - come over and tap me on the shoulder. Hope the beers good! Cheers, Nigel Jarman P.S. I have access to a digital camera so expect some pictures on Monday 18th August. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 14:28:59 +0300 (IDT) From: Noe Shalev Subject: RE: popping the question... >Not to mention "she the one i love/I put her on the stove.." when you >read it, it looks like it rhymes, yes? I always assumed it was 'she the one i love....', don't forget Robyns eccent, this is how he pronounce love. all the best noe ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The End of this Fegmaniax Digest. *sob* .