From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org To: fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org Reply-To: fegmaniax@ecto.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org Subject: Feg Digest V5 #149 Fegmaniax Digest Volume 5 Number 149 Monday June 30 1997 To post, send mail to fegmaniax@ecto.org To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@ecto.org with the words "unsubscribe fegmaniax-digest" in the message body. Send comments, etc. to the listowner at owner-fegmaniax@ecto.org FegMANIAX! Web Page: http://remus.rutgers.edu/~woj/fegmaniax/index.html Archives are available at ftp://www.ecto.org/pub/lists/fegmaniax/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Today's Topics: ------- ------- Re: filing music Re: filing music Re: filing music Re: Punky Garfunkel and Really Bad Songs Re: Punky Garfunkel and Really Bad Songs lurkers all? Re: filing music goin' home on my donkey Bad Music Movies Re: Punky Garfunkel and Really Bad Songs Re: Flamebait Crab rangoon? Re: Really Bad Songs Re: Movies Magazines Bad Music Lurkers of the world...Unite and take over. Re: lurkers all? Re: Really Bad Songs the spoken word compilation (was re: goin' home on my donkey) Re: Bad Music Re: Punky Garfunkel and Really Bad Songs Re: Punky Garfunkel and Really Bad Songs Re: the spoken word compilation (was re: goin' home on my donkey) Re: Punky Garfunkel and Really Bad Songs Re: Bad Grooves Cones 'R' Us Favourite spoken word Mustn't forget "Fleshhead!" Re: Cones 'R' Us Re: Movies Re: Movies Re: Really Bad Songs Re: Pulp (no Jarvis content) administrivia ------------------------------ From: SydneyC33@aol.com Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 01:29:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: filing music In a message dated 97-06-28 05:16:16 EDT, gondola@deltanet.com (Eb) writes: << I actually have a "B-play" section of about 150 discs which are sort of behind other discs and not easily accessible. The other 1200 or so discs >> The OTHER 1,200 or so discs?!?! Say, Eb, ol' pal, ol' friend, do you have a will? ;) Syd the Sinister ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 01:29:01 -0500 (CDT) From: John Littlejohn Subject: Re: filing music On Mon, 30 Jun 1997 SydneyC33@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 97-06-28 05:16:16 EDT, gondola@deltanet.com (Eb) writes: > > << I actually have a "B-play" section > of about 150 discs which are sort of behind other discs and not easily > accessible. The other 1200 or so discs >> > > > The OTHER 1,200 or so discs?!?! Say, Eb, ol' pal, ol' friend, do you have a > will? ;) Wrong. The correct question was "do you have a life?" You lose five points. > Syd the Sinister John the Jocular -* "Si vous m'obstaclerez, je vous liquiderai" - Churchill -* ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 23:49:44 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: filing music John "Flamebait" Littlejohn sneered: >Wrong. The correct question was "do you have a life?" You lose five >points. It's funny how *I* have the reputation of being the list's provocateur, while you continue to jerk people around just for kicks. Maybe your own life needs a little bolstering. Why don't you try posting that line about Robin Gibb again? No one seemed to get riled up about that the first time. You must've been crushed. Eb ------------------------------ From: SydneyC33@aol.com Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 02:51:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Punky Garfunkel and Really Bad Songs Miles writes: << I think most of them actually occurred on the Coolies' DIG?, which, aside from "She's Having My Baby," consists entirely of Simon & Garfunkel covers.>> Ahhh, a segue... Did you know that "Having My Baby" was near the top of the list of Dave Barry's Book of Bad Songs? The...um...research <:)> came out of a survey Dave did as part of his column of the worst pop/rock songs from 1960 to about 1992. What are the other "winners", you ask? Well, here they are sprinkled with some of Dave's (and a little of Syd's) commentary. 1. MacArthur Park - Richard Harris Yeah, so the cake is a metaphor. It's a STUPID metaphor. THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES!! And just when it started to fade from the national consciousness, it was brought back--Jason like--by Donna Summer. 2. Yummy, Yummy, Yummy (I Got Love in My Tummy) - Ohio Express Same group that did Chewy, Chewy. Not to be confused with Sugar, Sugar which was performed by the Archies who were SO soul-free they made Ohio Express sound like Wilson Pickett. 3. (You're) Having My Baby - Paul Anka By Paul Anka, who is widely suspect of also being Neil Sedaka. 4. Timothy - The Buoys Sheesh! A song about *cannibalism*!! It's no wonder it made the list, even though it wasn't as big a hit as the top three. At least they didn't try to boost sales by calling the song, "Yummy, Yummy, Yummy, I've Got Tim in My Tummy." After the top four, a clump of songs got about the same number of votes: Afternoon Delight - Starland Vocal Band (Sorry, love! ;) ) You Light Up My Life - Debbie Boone (Hmmm, what's worse? Debbie doing inspirational, or Pat doing metal?) YMCA - The Village People (I'm SO disappointed!) Achy Breaky Heart - Billy Ray Cyrus (Though country was technically out of the survey, Dave wanted to advance his theory that the complexity of a given line dance is inversely proportional to the IQ of the people doing it.) Muskrat Love - Captain and Tennille (a tender, poetic ballad about rodents having sex) Honey - Bobby Goldsboro (so smarmy it makes "It's a Small World" sound like heavy metal. Also advances Dave's theory that any song connected in any way with the name Bobby is bad. Plenty of evidence is provided.) He also has lists of bad songs in the following categories: Weenie Music; Love Songs; Songs Women Really Hate; Teen Death Songs; and Songs People Get Wrong (yes more of these, and they're a hoot!) So Fegs? These songs are bad, yes. But come on. What are some *really* bad recent ones? Any takers? :) Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 00:06:50 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Punky Garfunkel and Really Bad Songs >So Fegs? These songs are bad, yes. But come on. What are some *really* bad >recent ones? Any takers? :) Personally, I think Styx's "Mister Roboto" is about the worst song I've ever heard, but here's a list I saved from the Web somewhere awhile back. I'm a little skeptical about the list, because every song seems to be bad for the exact same reason (ie, cloying, sugary, etc.) Personally, I find a dozen or so of these choices puzzling (heck, I LIKE "Yummy Yummy Yummy"), but oh well. Um, enjoy?!? Eb THE WORST 100 SINGLES OF THE LAST 25 YEARS By David Browne & David Hinckley New York Daily News 1 - (You're) Having My Baby/Paul Anka/Odia Coates 1974 2 -You Light Up My Life/Debby Boone 1977 3 - Tie A Yellow Ribbon/Dawn featuring Tony Orlando 1973 4 - To All The Girls I've Loved Before/Julio Iglesias & Willie Nelson 1984 5 - I Write The Songs/Barry Manilow 1975 6 - Honey/Bobby Goldsboro 1968 7 - Muskrat Love/The Captain & Tenille 1976 8 - Feelings/Morris Albert 1975 9 - Yummy Yummy Yummy/Ohio Express 1968 10- The Men In My Little Girl's Life/Mike Douglas 1966 11- Afternoon Delight/Starland Vocal Band 1976 12- Billy, Don't Be A Hero/Bo Donaldson & the Heywoods 1974 13- Ballad of the Green Berets/Sgt. Barry Sadler 1966 14- Daddy Don't You Walk So Fast/Wayne Newton 1972 15- Candy Man/Sammy Davis Jr 1972 16- In The Year 2525/Zager & Evans 1969 17- I've Never Been To Me/Charlene 1982 18- Seasons in the Sun/Terry Jacks 1973 19- Alone Again (Naturally)/Gilbert O'Sullivan 1972 20- Paper Roses/Marie Osmond 1973 21- Me and You and a Dog Named Boo/Lobo 1971 22- Torn Between Two Lovers/Mary MacGregor 1976 23- Sunshine On My Shoulders/John Denver 1974 24- I'm Henry VIII, I Am/Herman's Hermits 1965 25- A Fifth of Beethoven/Walter Murphy/Big Apple Band 1976 26- Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go/Wham! 1984 27- After The Lovin'/Englebert Humperdinck 1976 28- Sometimes When We Touch/Dan Hill 1978 29- Ebony and Ivory/Paul McCartney & Stevie Wonder 1982 30- Escape (The Pina Colada Song)/Rupert Holmes 1979 31- Put Your Hand In The Hand/Ocean 1971 32- Have You Never Been Mellow/Olivia Newton-John 1975 33- Kung Fu Fighting/Carl Douglas 1975 34- Da Doo Ron Ron/Shaun Cassidy 1977 35- The Night The Lights Went Out In Georgia/Vicki Lawrence 1973 36- I Am Woman/Helen Reddy 1971 37- We Love You, Call Collect/Art Linkletter 1969 38- Party All The Time/Eddie Murphy 1985 39- Fernando/ABBA 1976 40- Those Were The Days/Mary Hopkin 1968 41- Love Will Keep Us Together/The Captain & Tenille 1975 42- Jean/Oliver 1969 43- The Night Chicago Died/Paper Lace 1974 44- Venus/Bananarama 1987 45- Watching Scotty Grow/Bobby Goldsboro 1971 46- A Horse With No Name/America 1972 47- Copacabana (At The Copa)/Barry Manilow 1978 48- Indian Reservation/Raiders 1971 49- Under The Boardwalk/Bruce Willis 1987 50- Precious and Few/Climax 1972 51- Half-Breed/Cher 1973 52- Do That To Me One More Time/The Captain & Tenille 1979 53- Dream Weaver/Gary Wright 1975 54- Cherish/The Association 1966 55- Is That All There Is/Peggy Lee 1969 56- I Think We're Alone Now/Tiffany 1987 57- Think of Laura/Christopher Cross 1984 58- MacArthur Park/Donna Summer 1978 59- In The Navy/Village People 1979 60- Incense and Peppermints/Strawberry Alarm Clock 1967 61- At Seventeen/Janis Ian 1975 62- Touch Me In The Morning/Diana Ross 1973 63- Rock Me Amadeus/Falco 1985 64- Girl Watcher/O'Kaysions 1968 65- Dust In The Wind/Kansas 1978 66- Disco Duck/Rick Dees & His Cast of Idiots 1976 67- Wildfire/Michael Murphey 1975 68- Sussudio/Phil Collins 1985 69- The Logical Song/Supertramp 1979 70- One Tin Soldier (The Legend of Billy Jack)/Coven 1971 71- Baby Don't Get Hooked On Me/Mac Davis 1972 72- Brand New Key/Melanie 1971 73- Silly Love Songs/Wings 1976 74- I Honestly Love You/Olivia Newton-John 1974 75- Simon Says/1910 Fruitgum Company 1968 76- Sing/Carpenters 1973 77- Annie's Song/John Denver 1974 78- Babe/Styx 1979 79- State of Shock/Mick Jagger & Michael Jackson 1984 80- I Just Called To Say I Love You/Stevie Wonder 1984 81- My Sharona/The Knack 1979 82- My Melody of Love/Bobby Vinton 1974 83- Longer/Dan Fogelberg 1979 84- The Morning After/Maureen MacGovern 1973 85- I'd Like To Teach The World To Sing (In Perfect Harmony)/The Hillside Singers 1971 86- Times of Your Life/Paul Anka 1975 87- Stuck With You/Huey Lewis & the News 1986 88- It's Still Rock & Roll To Me/Billy Joel 1980 89- America/Neil Diamond 1980 90- Colour My World/Chicago 1971 91- We'll Sing In The Sunshine/Gail Garnett 1964 92- I'm Easy/Keith Carradine 1976 93- Saturday Night/Bay City Rollers 1975 94- Do the Clam/Elvis Presley 1965 95- Lady/Kenny Rogers 1980 96- Good Morning Starshine/Oliver 1969 97- Pac-Man Fever/Buckner & Garcia 1982 98- Don't Give Up On Us/David Soul 1976 99- Tip-Toe Through The Tulips/Tiny Tim 1968 100-Everybody Have Fun Tonight/Wang Chung 1986 ------------------------------ From: tews@vcommons.com (Eddie Tews) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 00:16:55 -0700 Subject: lurkers all? i've been thinking of going into "lurk mode" myself of late, but it looks like everybody else beat me to the punch. we oughta take turns. get a sign up sheet or something. i mean, i never thought i'd see the day when i could read three full digests, and not see one post from susan. has somebody put out a missing persons report? beyond that, i mean, it wasn't so long ago ("they say those were the 'salad days'") that woj was putting up at least one, often two digests a day. now it's what, three per four days. remember when susan was writing an eloquent response to every post, including her own? when terry was posing an interesting riddle every day, and telling us why our solutions didn't quite work? when eb was practically inciting riots? when the quail was chirping in with whole-digest length works of fiction? when diamond was filling us in on the ways of sunny day real estate, asking inquisitive questions, and generally telling us all about her day? when sydney, with her wonderful vocabulary, was keeping us all on her toes? when john was filing reports from parts unknown? when bayard was reminding us just how sagacious fegs can be? when riel was claiming title to Lord of the Dance, and just *daring* anybody to take it away from him? when aidan was telling us the most intimate details of the latest exploits of sir kimberly rew? when james was letting us know about the latest crop of bands from nz? when glen existed? when woj was enlivening our days with the latest news, and searching the nooks and crannies of the universe, all for us? and on and on and now we find 40% of each digest devoted to our filing systems. i'm dyin' out here, folks. and i don't wanna here any of this, "ah, this always happens in summer. he'll get used to it. hell, the current state of affairs is bliss, compared with the great drought of the summer of '94, when we went weeks at a time without getting even one post." let's write a new history! you owe it to yourself. you owe it to robyn. anybody within eyeshot of this post, contribute to fegmaniax! now! you'll be so happy that you did. here's one idea, if nothing else. why don't we write a prequel to the flosshilde diaries, with everyone sending in an entry for a different day. that would be fun, wouldn't it? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 02:23:53 -0500 (CDT) From: John Littlejohn Subject: Re: filing music On Sun, 29 Jun 1997, Eb had someone write for him: > It's funny how *I* have the reputation of being the list's provocateur, > while you continue to jerk people around just for kicks. Maybe your own > life needs a little bolstering. I don't jerk *people* around - just you. > Why don't you try posting that line about Robin Gibb again? No one seemed > to get riled up about that the first time. You must've been crushed. I was indeed so crushed that I blocked it from my memory. How do you remember something that far back? You're just scary. JL, who must have hit a nerve earlier -* "Si vous m'obstaclerez, je vous liquiderai" - Churchill -* ------------------------------ From: tews@vcommons.com (Eddie Tews) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 00:34:18 -0700 Subject: goin' home on my donkey has anybody ever made a tape of just robyn's stories, interviews, explanations etc. i've often thought it would be pretty fun, but have been reluctant, because i just wasn't sure how the stories would work without the context of the songs. the closest i ever came was, i made a tape of robyn rarities (this was in the days before rhino came along and made a mockery of the sport of robyn vinyl collecting. not, of course, until after i'd spent several hundred hours and many sleepless nights trying to track all of this stuff down) which i interspersed with clips from the o'donoghue interview. the boom box i use has an incredible pause button (i got it in '83, i think. i don't even have speakers for it any more,) so the editing is really crisp. that tape sounds great. i'm thinking of making the total spoken robyn experience tape. but, i recently had another thought. how about if we compile one. everybody could sort of mention their personal favorite spoken segment, and the compilation committee (john, bayard, mike seem obvious choices) could throw 'em all together. worth thinking about, anyway? i know there are a few Dune fans out there. the "space intro" to Madonna of the Wasps very much reminds me of the gom jabbar scene, every time i listen to it. there's the obvious: "the agony of injection." and there's the tenuous link: "she's riding you like a camel, uh huh..." (you know, camels as an analog to sandworms. that tenuous enough?) but it's something more than that. it's something to do with the ambience of the piece that, for some reason, always evokes that passage of the book when i listen to it. james dignan's fave flicks: 2001, Wings of Desire, Manhattan, A Hard Day's Night, Blade Runner, The Princess Bride, The Usual Suspects, Metropolis, Fantasia, Being There julie nelson's fave flicks: Wings of Desire, Naked, My Life As A Dog, Barton Fink, King of Comedy, Fanny And Alexander, Rear Window, Harold and Maude, Vincent, Wizard of Oz lsdiamond's fave flicks: dragonheart, ladyhawke, hamlet (gibson), forrest gimp, the wizard of speed & time, the rocketeer, the princess bride, andromeda strain, thunderbirds are go!, toy story [note: sorry diamond, i know that was really uncalled for. but that's one movie i just couldn't stand. it's probably the closest i ever came in my life to walking out of a movie.] chris wallace's fave flicks: Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, Phantasm, Enter the Dragon, Rumble in the Bronx, Plan 9 From Outer Space, All You Need Is Cash, What's Up Tiger Lilly?, The Fugitive, Spinal Tap, Holy Grail...honorable mention: any film starring arch hall, jr., mel brooks films ------------------------------ From: Terrence M Marks Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 03:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Bad Music Really Bad Music From Bands that Can Do Better: [or "Woohoo! I get a chance to make nasty comments about bands *without* getting flamed for it"] Student Demonstration Time (The Beach Boys) [The number one reason why people don't like Mike Love. Also, the only bad track on Surf's Up. But this is almost bad enough to bring down the album. As you can probably tell by the title, it was pretty dated when it came out. No real student demonstrations have happened within MY lifetime, at least. It's also a reworking of "Riot in Cell Block #9". It's a stupid three-chord rocker by a band that should not do stupid three-chord rockers. Vocal delivery is through a megaphone. Includes smarmy police siren noises. Contains the phrase "four martrys earned a new degree, the Bachelor of Bullets".] Second-hand Car Spiv (The Kinks) [From a ripoff of chopsticks, to abstract keyboard runs, to pointless backing vocals, this is the least attractive song I've ever heard. Lyrics are almost painful to listen to, but, fortunately, not as pretentious and Mr. Love and co.] How She Boogalooed It (The Beach Boys) [The number two reason why people don't like Mike Love.] Jack and Dianne (John Cougar) [Raspy voice, simple guitar, stupid lyrics, cheap drums and bad timing. But it's a great American hit. I hate modern America.] Little Vacation (Vic Chesnutt) [Satisfaction could lead perfectly into any track...but it's wasted on this. This song just sounds so...cheap. It sounds like the kind of song your kid brother makes up on the spot...] Daddy's Song (The Monkees) [After listening to Mike Nesmith's version of this and Harry Nilsson's version, it can only be concluded that Davy shouldn't sing songs like this... I'll make no secret that he's my least favourite Monkee, but his delivery just plain fails on this one. Think "If It's In You". Penalized because it's the worst song on "Head", and because they had another version that was better that they didn't put on.] I Can Hear You (They Might Be Giants) [Buzzy, muffled, hissy, raspy, out-of-key...well, all the words you use to describe the genres of music you don't like...they all fit this song.] Miss You (The Rolling Stones) [I hate the Stones. I fail to see why they're so famous. Bad lyrics, bad vocal delivery and that HIDEOUS falsetto solo thing guarantee this one a spot.] If It Makes You Happy (Sheryl Crow) [Simply put, that style of shouting cannot be successfully pulled off by women. That goes double for Sheryl Crow. The fact that it was "dedicated to people who will never truly be happy, like critics of my first album" is enough for it to get personal.] Take It Back (Pink Floyd) [Well, it sounds like an inferior ripoff of The Beatles' "It's All Too Much", and it just lacks the lyrical...aptitude...of most other pink floyd songs.. ] Oh! Darling/I Want You/Octopus' Garden [Note: If you happen to be The Beatles, do not attempt to simplify your sound and do not attempt to let Ringo put a song on because he hasn't put songs on the previous album.] Black Dog (Led Zeppelin) [Slow, atonal. Just an excuse for an endlessly repeating guitar solo and semiconnected rants about women in general. Yip.] I don't have reasons. If you heard them, you'd understand: In the year 2525 (Zaeger and Evans) that "Somebody done somebody wrong song" song..(I don't care who) Sussudio (Phil Collings) Angie (The Rolling Stones) Hollywood Nights (Bob Seger) Bad Albums that I won't do Song By Song: Donovan, Volume 2 [Yep. Early Donovan, back when he was a low-quality Bob Dylan drone.] Anything by Foreigner or Journey or Tommy James and the Shondells or Heart or John Cougar/Mellencamp, Kansas, And I *liked* Incense and Peppermints. Yeah, it's flowery hippy-trippy rubbish, but apart from "Daily Nightly", most songs about late 60s pop culture were just as bad. And "Everybody have fun tonight" is catchy and has a totally boss video. Oh...and here's the obligatory disclaimer...I've written my share of bad songs, too. And I file all of my discs under "C". Terrence Marks Remember-Jesus is your friend. normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ From: Terrence M Marks Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 03:55:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Movies [snip bit by Eddie Tews on how Forrest Gump was ...] >closest i ever came in my life to walking out of a movie.] Why? It's a bit sappy, but I think it's one of the best things that's been put out in years. Closest I ever came to walking out was "Natural Born Killers". If I wasn't watching it on HBO, I would've demanded my money back. 89 minutes of pointless violence. 1 minute of clips of the media, showing how "it's a parody of the way media violence really is". If I want parody, I'd like it done quickly and *without* graphic and disgusting violence. Only thing I actually did walk out on was the gimp scene in Pulp Fiction because, well, there are some things that I DO NOT want to see and, well, that scene seemed like it was gonna be all of them in one. I think that Tarantino is WAY overrated...too bad the "have everyone shoot and curse" formula never seems to wear out.. And I guess I'm the only dude who likes "Harvey" around here. (did "Mr. Smith goes to Washington" get any votes?) Terrence Marks Remember-Jesus is your friend. normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 02:57:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Mississippi Malcolm McDowell Subject: Re: Punky Garfunkel and Really Bad Songs On Mon, 30 Jun 1997 SydneyC33@aol.com wrote: > Honey - Bobby Goldsboro (so smarmy it makes "It's a Small World" sound like > heavy metal. Also advances Dave's theory that any song connected in any way > with the name Bobby is bad. Plenty of evidence is provided.) I will not have people slagging Bobby Darin in my presence. Also we should not forget the wonderful Bobby Fuller Four. Anyone who has something nasty to say about "I fought the Law" will be slammed over the head with a Phil Collins blowup doll and left for dead. > So Fegs? These songs are bad, yes. But come on. What are some *really* bad > recent ones? Any takers? :) That damn Cat Stevens song 'Wild World' shoulda made the list, not to mention 'Sugar Shack', anything by Lou Christie or Jimmy Buffett, and 'American Pie'. I think they need a rewrite committee. I volunteer. Love on ya, Susan too tired to think of anything recent that would be worthy of the alltime bad list aside perhaps from Pearl Jam's "Jeremy", but I'm sure I will- let me sleep on it :) ******************************************************************************* "The worship of the beautiful always ends in an orgy"- Benjamin Disraeli, "Lothair", lxxvii ******************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 01:02:04 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Flamebait Littlejerk unleashed more hot air thusly: >I don't jerk *people* around - just you. Aww, well, aren't you a clever boy? Someone give John John a medal! >> Why don't you try posting that line about Robin Gibb again? No one seemed >> to get riled up about that the first time. You must've been crushed. > >I was indeed so crushed that I blocked it from my memory. How do you >remember something that far back? You're just scary. Oh yes, my memory stretches all the way back to a few weeks ago. How terrifying. What a freak I must be. Sorry if drug use has damaged your short-term memory. For the record, someone proclaimed that "Robyn is God," and you tried to push people's buttons by "assuming" that the person must've meant Robin GIBB. Anyone else want to back up John's theory that I have no life just because I own a lot of CDs? Of course not -- even John himself isn't that simplistic. He's just doing his empty flamebait routine again. What fun he must be having, congratulating himself on his mischief. What genius. Maybe he'll use his intelligence to contribute a post with musical content next time. I doubt it, however. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 02:57:28 -0500 (EST) From: Tracy Aileen Copeland Subject: Crab rangoon? On Wed, 16 Jul 1997, Eddie Tews wrote: > i'm thinking of making the total spoken robyn experience tape [...] What we need is something like the James Earl Jones site, where they've got zillions of one-word samples so you can make JEJ say anything you want. Except I bet you couldn't make James Earl Jones say anything about crustacea. Tracy "no, I'll have the shrimp toast" Copeland P.S. Give generously to the Robyn Rarities Reviews site! -- How is it that you fail to perceive that I did not speak about bread? - Matthew 16:11 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 01:20:39 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Really Bad Songs The resurgent Susan wrote: >That damn Cat Stevens song 'Wild World' shoulda made the list, not to >mention 'Sugar Shack', anything by Lou Christie or Jimmy Buffett, and >'American Pie'. I think they need a rewrite committee. I volunteer. What's so wrong with "Wild World?" But yeah, "American Pie" bugs me endlessly. I'm having flashbacks to my Orientation Week before my first year of college, when one of the student dorm advisors decided it would be really "powerful" to perform that song a capella at the end-of-the-week "talent show"...OOOF. >too tired to think of anything recent that would be worthy of the alltime >bad list aside perhaps from Pearl Jam's "Jeremy", but I'm sure I will- let >me sleep on it :) Well, let me add that the list I posted was also dated 1992. Thus a few obvious, more recent candidates (say, "I'm Too Sexy" and "Achy Breaky Heart") were deleted. But maybe those wouldn't have made the list anyway, because those critics seemed to only hate "corny" songs, not grating novelty songs, etc. And come on Susan, I'm not a Pearl Jam fan either, but "Jeremy" as one of the worst songs EVER? Naah. ;) Eb, who also almost walked out of Pulp Fiction...but during the early Travolta/Thurman segment, which he found self-consciously "hip" to an unbearable degree ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:22:56 +0100 (BST) From: M R Godwin Subject: Re: Movies Right on, Terry! Anything with James Stewart in it is OK with me - I prefer 'Destry Rides Again' to 'Harvey', though! - Mike Godwin ------------------------------ From: TROYD1_at_REF@westatpo.westat.com Date: Mon, 30 Jun 97 09:10:26 EDT Subject: Magazines ------------------------------ On Sat, 28 Jun 1997, Eddie Tews wrote: > The Rocket is supposedly the greatest music magazine in the country. i > never said that, but a lot of people have... > as for Rolling Stone, i let my sub expire years ago, but i still read it > for some unkown reason... haven't seen The Rocket, but Rolling Stone does bite for the most part. I always get Q magazine. Even though it seems to be going downhill, it's still the best one I've seen - and even hipper than SPIN magazine thinks it is. JL ------------------------------ I think Puncture is pretty good. It is a Portland-based magazine that comes out 6 times a year and features good interviews and tons of reviews. I don't always agree with the reviews, of course, but I they bring to my attention a lot of bands I probably woul;dn't have known of otherwise. The most recent issue that I saw had a very interesting article on the Olivia Tremor Control and their tape loopy cohorts and an interview with Pavement. When I lived in Seattle I consulted the Rocket for the club listings, and that was about it. Not nearly as entertaining a read as the Stranger, IMO. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 09:56:08 -0700 From: mrrunion@tng.net (Runion, Michael R.) Subject: Bad Music It seems to me that there are two types of bad music. The first type involves truly bad songs by a band that we like, or songs that we just expected to be better. Then there are just the bad songs by bad bands. I think normally we tend to talk about and remember the first type. I almost feel sorry for the latter type, because they simply get forgotten. Member of "just bad songs by bad bands" might include: mid-to-late 80's hair bands like Poison, Warrant, or Skid Row. By the way, has anyone seen the new video by Vince Neil? It's like the last 10 years never happened. Ultimately sad and disgusting. On another related note, I think it's hysterical that Sebastian Bach has formed a band with Kelley Deal and Jimmy Chamberlin. This one time sappy bad-boy is now like a goody-goody in a band full of dreaded-alternative heroin addicts. Other bad bands: Milli Vanilli, Vanilla Ice, NKOTB, White Zombie... One recent song that grated on my senses like no other was by Imperial Drag I think? The one where he screeches the word "feeling" during the chorus? Total trash...but then a lot of radio fodder today seems to be trash. And hey, most of the bands Terry named may be bad, but I can still pull out a Journey LP or an early Heart LP and find some good feelin' stuff. It's probably just a case of nostagia over reason though. Gosh, times really have changed. Obligatory Robyn Content: One of my favorite moments of late was when Robyn and Tim were playing "De Chirico Street" and left out a whole section. They realized it at the end and had to fumble around before remembering what they'd left out. They finished the song with the forgotten "Fleshhead!" verse. Robyn says something along the lines of how the crowd nearly got cheated out of the part they'd all been waiting for. Can't remember which show this was though. Mike one-time-Journey-appreciater Runion ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 09:29:23 -0800 From: lobsterman Subject: Lurkers of the world...Unite and take over. Hey all, I have been lurking out of necessity. We just moved into a new apt. and are busy trying to unpack boxes etc. Just too busy to post or read stuff right now. But someone forwarded me an e-mail from Greg Kihn saying he was flattered that my second album purchase was "Rock Kihn Roll"!!!! Russ, was that you? Anyways, once things get less chaotic I plan on posting more and setting up my tape decks to keep that flow of concerts going. A big river of live tapes flowing from me to you, from you to me---all over this great big world! Where would we be without Robyn in our headphones during the off season?? I enjoyed Antwoman's missive. It is SOO nice to have management that actually WANTS to be involved with fans. (or even the artist themselves, for that matter!) I haven't seen alot of that, except for Throwing Muses' website. If you post a message for the band on the bulletin board, they will usually respond (well, not the band as a whole; usually Billy O Connell (Kristin Hersh's hubby) or David Narcizo (drummer extraordinaire)). Some cool things I found in these boxes I'm unpacking and sorting are 3 or 4 old Robyn articles (circa 85 & 86) I will check the archives and the 2 issues of Happy The Golden Prince and if I don't find them there already, I will type them in and send them to you. Fair enough?? Don't hold your breath, but you'll probably have 'em by Christmas at the rate we're going. Missing you, John (Lobsterman) -jbj /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-//-/-/-/-/-/-/- John B. Jones e-mail:jojones@mailbox.syr.edu web: http://web.syr.edu/~jojones "Driving Aloud" was originally called "Driving to Portland." -Robyn Hitchcock \-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 09:31:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Sutton Subject: Re: lurkers all? > remember when susan was writing an eloquent response to every post, > including her own? when terry was posing an interesting riddle every > bands from nz? when glen existed? when woj was enlivening our days > with the latest news, and searching the nooks and crannies of the > universe, all for us? and on and on You essentially described the answer to your original problem. It is because of all the non-RH threads that appear on the list that has further encouraged non-RH topics that in-turn has caused larger and more frequent digests and your inbox being stuffed. I for one, am not interested in the non-RH and 'social' threads that have been increasing. I much prefer the RH content. I dont mind the occasional 'related' threads about other bands, but I think those should be limited to just a couple of messages. If many non-RH tangents are going to be created, then take them off list. It seems that of late %80 of the fegmaniax traffic ends up in my trash can unread. Somewhere on the 'net is a description of the life-cycle of Internet mailings lists. IMHO Fegmaniax has achieved the step where the original topic and intent of the list has all but been forgotten. This is very common among fan lists. I have been told of the John Hiatt fan list where the original list got sooo off topic and sooo out of hand that a handful of listers started their own private list. Hope fegmaniax doesnt get to that point. Dont get me wrong, I am not slagging the list. I am merely making observations and stating personal opinion. Yes this is a VERY different list from when I first joined six years ago. Considering digest mode.... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 09:33:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Cardboard Cream Subject: Re: Really Bad Songs > Eb, who also almost walked out of Pulp Fiction...but during the early > Travolta/Thurman segment, which he found self-consciously "hip" to an > unbearable degree FINALLY, someone with true taste. i too thought this was a pointless example of movie-making (note the use of movie rather than film). among the really sick part is the trivial nature of the drug scenes. they are offensive only to those who have had similar situations happen to them or people they know. beyond the parts that were designed to be hipper than thou, the whole gimp thing appealed only to men with a slippery grasp on their own sexuality and a good fear of others. the whole thing is a bad urban myth that is not even doing well at that. .chris (who thinks characterization of one or another on the list is bound to lead to problems and is perfectly willing to let sydney have off with eb's will because he knows that woj's will is where it is at, if i only could live long enough for it to happen) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 09:37:13 -0800 From: lobsterman Subject: the spoken word compilation (was re: goin' home on my donkey) Eddie Tews wrote: >has anybody ever made a tape of just robyn's stories, interviews, >explanations etc. There are a few of us who have had this idea floating around. My latest idea involved using my 4 track recorder as a 2 track stereo recorder and fading the spoken words in and out, so you get a 60min tape of Robyn with no gaps of silence in between. I have the audio software to do this on my computer even, but not a big enough hard drive, and the end quality would not be good because my inputs and outputs are stereo miniplugs. John, who longs for a computer with RCA-plug audio inputs and outputs. -jbj /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-//-/-/-/-/-/-/- John B. Jones e-mail:jojones@mailbox.syr.edu web: http://web.syr.edu/~jojones "Driving Aloud" was originally called "Driving to Portland." -Robyn Hitchcock \-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 17:53:21 +0100 (BST) From: M R Godwin Subject: Re: Bad Music This topic always send me back to that seminal LP, "Kenny Everett's Twenty Bursts of the Worst". Some of the songs like "Transfusion" and "The Deal" are simply bad taste, but for a truly awful track, there is that cover version of "Spinning Wheel" which is not only a rotten BST composition to start with, but is performed with startling ineptitude, with the two singers hitting different notes, _both_ _wrong_, during the middle eight. Yuk! - hssmrg PS My favourite version of 'Wild World' is the Jimmy Cliff cover, which is retitled 'Wide World' - super record. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 18:29:04 +0100 (BST) From: M R Godwin Subject: Re: Punky Garfunkel and Really Bad Songs Hi Eric Just been going through that bottom 100. A few thorts: It's remarkable how many of those songs I can hum the first eight bars to. I suppose that to be a really successful bad record, it has to be memorable - once you've heard that tremelo guitar intro to 'Seasons in the sun', it lodges in the brain cells, filling up space that could otherwise be used productively. The only ones I've got are "Yummy yummy yummy","Me and you and a dog named Boo", "Simon Says", "Cherish" and "My Sharona" (I'd love a copy of 'Fernando', though, as long as I didn't have to pay more than 40p for it). I've also got "Say say say" by McCartney and Jackson, which I would have said was nastier than Jagger/Jackson's 'State of Shock'. In the UK, we had totally different versions of 'Billy don't be a hero' (Black Lace, possibly), 'Indian Reservation' (Don Fardon, good record), and 'I'd like to teach the world to sing' (New Seekers). All huge hits, of course. The best version of 'Venus' is the original Shocking Blue single, but it is really quite hard to tell it from the Bananarama cover. Are they criticising Bananarama for covering it, or do they just not like the song? Any number that goes Am D over and over again is all right by me. Jerry Lieber was on the radio the other day playing 'Is that all there is?', obviously still really proud of it, not understanding that 'Along Came Jones' is the best thing he ever did. And where are "Moulty" by the Barbarians and "Peanut Butter" by the Marathons, eh? Cheers - Mike "Down on the floor I begin to cluck Look at me I'm the disco duck" What nonsense! Everyone knows it's _hens_ that cluck. That line should be "Look at me, I'm the disco hen" (I think that whenever I hear the record - more wasted brain cells...) ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Punky Garfunkel and Really Bad Songs Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:30:02 -0700 (PDT) From: "Daniel Saunders" > 33- Kung Fu Fighting/Carl Douglas 1975 I'm offended! Messrs. Browne and Hinckley obviously haven't heard Robyn's version. One song I can't stand that a lot of people seem to like is "Ironic" by Alanis Morissette. "Like rain on your wedding day, a free ride when you've already paid" Not only does this bear little relevance to the concept of irony, but what exactly is the point of this song? Daniel Saunders Life is heaven and hell. All else is silence. - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 13:38:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Bayard Subject: Re: the spoken word compilation (was re: goin' home on my donkey) On Mon, 30 Jun 1997, lobstie wrote: > There are a few of us who have had this idea floating around. My latest > idea involved using my 4 track recorder as a 2 track stereo recorder and > fading the spoken words in and out, so you get a 60min tape of Robyn with > no gaps of silence in between. I could do this onto DAT (not that ya get that much of a benefit from putting a mere voice onto DAT, but we might want to intersperse some music.) BTW, do y'all want ypur crablings with or without gaps? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 13:46:50 -0500 From: "Gene Hopstetter, Jr." Subject: Re: Punky Garfunkel and Really Bad Songs Mike asked: >In the UK, we had totally different versions of 'Billy don't be a hero' >(Black Lace, possibly), That was Paper Lace -- who charted in the US with "The Night Chicago Died", which was b/w "Can You Get It (When You Want It)?" I still think Bo Donaldson and the Heywoods' version is better, tho. =8-P +++++++++++++++++ "Don't let Western Civilization + Gene Hopstetter, Jr. + make a dipshit out of you." +++++++++++++++++ -- Spot 1019 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 12:50:32 -0500 (CDT) From: John Littlejohn Subject: Re: Bad Grooves On Mon, 30 Jun 1997, Mississippi Malcolm McDowell wrote: > I will not have people slagging Bobby Darin in my presence. Also we should not > forget the wonderful Bobby Fuller Four. Anyone who has something nasty to > say about "I fought the Law" will be slammed over the head with a Phil > Collins blowup doll and left for dead. Bobby Darin gave Wayne Newton his first big hit. 'Nuff said > That damn Cat Stevens song 'Wild World' shoulda made the list, not to > mention 'Sugar Shack', anything by Lou Christie or Jimmy Buffett, and > 'American Pie'... I have nothing against 'American Pie' but am glad I'm not the only person in the world who loathes Jimmy Buffett. > too tired to think of anything recent that would be worthy of the alltime > bad list... How 'bout 'The Macarena' JL, who almost broke up with a girl because she liked 'Incense and Peppermints' -* "Si vous m'obstaclerez, je vous liquiderai" - Churchill -* ------------------------------ From: Terry_Linnig@hccompare.com Date: Mon, 30 Jun 97 12:33:58 cst Subject: Cones 'R' Us I've endured endless jabs from my roommates regarding my cone purchase(s). It's time for my cones to get their proper recognition. Just one question - How?? Thanks Guntarski ------------------------------ Subject: Favourite spoken word Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:55:26 -0700 (PDT) From: "Daniel Saunders" I think tews has the right idea. Everyone should contribute their favourite spoken word RH monologues. I have a rather limited experience with this, having only recently begun to trade, but here are my favourites (excerpts from, you should recognize them): "Seek ye the one known as Clint..." "...and then they'll have the assassination of president pumpkin..." "...this song is called 'through the ribcage, like the alien, in the beautiful scottish highlands in spring'" >From my RealTime concert in Vancouver: "Don't mess with the pig, cause the pig is rock 'n' roll, and rock 'n' roll is above us" "What is this mysterious intuition musicians have. Can they grow cacti with such ease?" "You've been a beautifully put together crowd and I hope nothing *gruesome* happens to you on the way home..." "Beware thy shadow, oh can of beans..." Daniel Saunders Life is heaven and hell. All else is silence. - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:00:34 -0500 From: Hal Brandt CC: fegmaniax@ecto.org Subject: Mustn't forget "Fleshhead!" Runion, Michael R. wrote: > One of my favorite moments of late was when > Robyn and Tim were playing "De Chirico Street" and left out a whole > section. They realized it at the end and had to fumble around before > remembering what they'd left out. They finished the song with the > forgotten "Fleshhead!" verse. Robyn says something along the lines of > how the crowd nearly got cheated out of the part they'd all been waiting > for. Can't remember which show this was though. Let's see...that's Shank Hall/Milwaukee 5.23.97. Compulsively, hal ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:17:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Cardboard Cream Subject: Re: Cones 'R' Us > I've endured endless jabs from my roommates regarding my cone purchase(s). It's > time for my cones to get their proper recognition. Just one question - How?? kick your roommates out and put the cones in their rooms. .chris ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Movies Date: Mon, 30 Jun 97 13:09:40 -0700 From: Tom Clark "Chernobyl Hawaiian Village" On 6/30/97 12:55 AM, Terrence M Marks stated emphatically: >Only thing I actually did walk out on was the gimp scene in >Pulp Fiction because, well, there are some things that I DO >NOT want to see and, well, that scene seemed like it was gonna >be all of them in one. I think that Tarantino is WAY overrated...too bad >the "have everyone shoot and curse" formula never seems to wear out.. I guess you've never seen "Bad Lieutenant". When I saw it, half the theater got up and split during the scene when Kietel pulls over the two teenage girls. -tc "ain't gonna be no Repo Man, no way." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 15:22:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Mississippi Malcolm McDowell Subject: Re: Movies On Mon, 30 Jun 1997, Tom Clark wrote: > I guess you've never seen "Bad Lieutenant". When I saw it, half the > theater got up and split during the scene when Kietel pulls over the two > teenage girls. Reminds me of seeing "Kids". I was on the verge of walking out several times and finally did in one of the last scenes where the guy forces himself on the drugged up heroine. I just couldn't take it anymore. Agreed with Terrence (never thought I'd see the day! :)) on "Natural Born Killers" actually too, that was an awful disgusting excuse for a film and a real waste of $7.50. At least "Kids" was an interesting and farily accomplished film, if ultimately too disturbing for me- "Natural Born Killers" was just an exercise in self-indulgent stupidity. Love on ya, Susan who by the way, hated "Forrest Gump", for what it's worth ******************************************************************************* "The worship of the beautiful always ends in an orgy"- Benjamin Disraeli, "Lothair", lxxvii ******************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 13:59:06 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Really Bad Songs M. Godwin wrote: >The only ones I've got are "Yummy yummy yummy","Me and you and a dog >named Boo", "Simon Says", "Cherish" and "My Sharona" (I'd love a copy of >'Fernando', though, as long as I didn't have to pay more than 40p for it). >I've also got "Say say say" by McCartney and Jackson, which I would have >said was nastier than Jagger/Jackson's 'State of Shock'. I own "Yummy," "A Fifth of Beethoven" (I bought the 45 at the time!), "Fernando" (another 45 from my youth!), "Those Were The Days" (what's so awful about this?), "Jean" by Oliver (25-cent album which makes me giggle), "Incense & Peppermints," "Disco Duck" (ANOTHER 45 from the same period), "The Logical Song" (on original 45 AND on used LP), "One Tin Soldier" (sort of an "inherited" 45), "Silly Love Songs" (but it's the live version on Wings Over America), "Simon Says," "Saturday Night" (another 25-cent album), "Good Morning Starshine" (same record as "Jean"), "Pac-Man Fever" (on used LP AND limited-edition square "gameboard" single) and "Tip Toe Through The Tulips." Fifteen out of 100 -- now THAT makes me scary! And if I had to chance to tape "Alone Again (Naturally)" or "At Seventeen," I probably would. It's funny -- I don't really own that many seven-inches (100?), but so many of these above songs seemed to come from my single-buying, non-album-buying early days of music appreciation. So where's "Convoy," anyway? I've got that one too! ;) Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 14:11:17 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Pulp (no Jarvis content) >> Eb, who also almost walked out of Pulp Fiction...but during the early >> Travolta/Thurman segment, which he found self-consciously "hip" to an >> unbearable degree > >FINALLY, someone with true taste. i too thought this was a pointless >example of movie-making (note the use of movie rather than film). >among the really sick part is the trivial nature of the drug scenes. Oh, the drug content was only part of what annoyed me. Firstly, there was Uma Thurman, who may be gorgeous but who can't act to save her life, if you ask me. Supporting Actress nod, HUH? Basically, her performance consisted of tilting her head down and leering upwards so that she looked "cool." Brilliant. Totally one-dimensional. And then there was the restaurant they went to -- ooh, how hip! Booths that look like vintage cars! How retro chic! Wow. And then that "Batdance duel" or whatever -- I am completely unable to explain why some folks see this scene as some sort of classic movie moment. Huh? Bored me silly. Etc., etc. I could probably name another aspect that bugged me, but I haven't seen that film in quite awhile. And unlike most folks (apparently), I've only seen it once. I did start liking the film around the time Bruce Willis and Harvey Keitel came into play, and I did appreciate the unusual time structure, but still this movie really didn't excite me that much. As for the Travolta/Jackson dialogue, I found it baffling that folks like SiskBert praised it for its "reality" and willingness to be everyday-banal. I found all the pop-culture references totally contrived, and again pandering to would-be hipsters. I mean, tell me: You're talking to an unbalanced robber with a gun -- do you start making witty references to how FONZIE would act? NO WAY! >.chris (who is perfectly willing to let sydney have off with eb's will) I don't understand what this means...huh? Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 17:54:13 -0400 (EDT) From: the woj of noise Subject: administrivia also sprach Robert Sutton : >You essentially described the answer to your original problem. It is >because of all the non-RH threads that appear on the list that has further >encouraged non-RH topics that in-turn has caused larger and more frequent >digests and your inbox being stuffed. two factors which are also important are 1) the growing number of people on the list and 2) the growing sense of community between the list members. list membership has actually been pretty steady for the past year or so, but there has been a definite change in how the feg community expresses itself (for lack of a better phrase). we've gone from a small, tight-knit group of devotees to a larger, looser group of mini-groups (which are, in turn, also made up also of devotees). this is not surprising -- it's happened on every other mailing list i've been on. as i've said before and will undoubtedly say again, fegmaniax is what the members make of it. i'm not interested in making up and enforcing posting rules -- even if i was, i don't have the time. however, i am not interested in fegmaniax becoming a morass of non-robyn-related posts either. so, in the interest of the time-honored tradition of sitting on the fence, let me offer up a couple thoughts that run through my head when posting to a mailing list and reading posts to a mailing list. first, is what you have to say of general interest? is it information that everybody can use (i.e., discographical data about a release) or information that, while of use to a few specific people, is worth telling to everyone (i.e., tour dates in mongolia)? or are you carrying on a conversation with a couple people which has no bearing on the rest of the list's membership? second, does what you have to say contribute to the list? are you just posting to generate traffic or do you really have something to say? are you posting a "me too" or a one-liner which might be better sent to the person you're replying to (or not sent at all!) instead of the entire list? third, are you defending yourself publically against a flame solely to save face? this is a specific category of the general interest question, but worth singling out since it's been my experience that people are very tempted to carry on flamewars only to get the last word in. put bluntly, no one cares about your reputation, everyone would rather see the flamage end, and most people are more likely to have a lower opinion of you if you do carry on these shenanigans. these aren't rules for fegmaniax and no one will be tossed off the list if they don't pay attention to the above. however, the suggestions have, in my experience, helped to maintain the usefulness and enjoyment of the mailing lists i've been on...and what i'm hearing from more than just robert indicates that fegmaniax is dropping off on those two measures. woj ps. if you want to discuss this with me or others, please do so off list. i'd be interested in hearing what you think of this, so if you do want to talk about it with others, please cc me on your thoughts. thanks. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The End of this Fegmaniax Digest. *sob* .