From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org To: fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org Reply-To: fegmaniax@ecto.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org Subject: Feg Digest V5 #100 Fegmaniax Digest Volume 5 Number 100 Friday May 16 1997 To post, send mail to fegmaniax@ecto.org To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@ecto.org with the words "unsubscribe fegmaniax-digest" in the message body. Send comments, etc. to the listowner at owner-fegmaniax@ecto.org FegMANIAX! Web Page: http://remus.rutgers.edu/~woj/fegmaniax/index.html Archives are available at ftp://www.ecto.org/pub/lists/fegmaniax/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Today's Topics: ------- ------- Re: Spinbaughlicious Robyn On Radio Re: Heroes and Villains and Limbaugh Re: Robyn On Radio Re: Robyn On Radio flame wars Re: Spinbaughlicious Re: Bedazzled Re: Spinbaughlicious Re: Spinbaughlicious Re: SpewCs a least once every day Re: Limbaugh and Politics Re: Bedazzled Portland Arms CD??!! Round Flat Records Portland Arms Mistake Kung Fu Fighting Re: Kung Fu Fighting Glass Flamebait animation recommendation Re: SpewCs a least once every day ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 17:48:24 -0500 (CDT) From: donald andrew snyder Subject: Re: Spinbaughlicious Just in case anyone wants a divinity school student's perspective (warning bells should go off), Pascal's wager only makes sense from an exclusivist approach. In other words, only those religions which make claims about being the only salvific option need to "cover their ass." Personally, I don't think any person of any deep religious sentiment would say that they believe because of "fear of the Lord." Paul spends a considerable amount of time showing that Christians (after Christ has been sent), no longer must be held to the law. Proper action is not the result of fear, but of love: We are no longer slaves, but sons. Augustine makes this argument the basis of The Spirit and the Letter. As for the claims of intolerance, I don't think Greg meant anything more than a personal defense of his own beliefs. Some convincing recent works of theology argue that the best way to approach dialogue is from your own cultural-linguistic belief system. Thus, the best way to understand and learn from each other is to be up front with our very differences. Andy, who once thought Robyn says "Yes, but who has all the Jews?" in When I Was Dead" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 18:53:29 -0400 From: mr bean jeans Subject: Robyn On Radio >Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:09:37 -0700 (PDT) >From: Griffith Davies >To: woj >Cc: John Jones >Subject: Robyn On Radio > >Robyn will be on the Santa Monica College based KCRW-FM 89.9 FM on >Wednesday 28 April at 11:00pm. Once again, he will be Tricia Halloran's >guest on Brave New World. > >KCRW has a web site at www.kcrw.org > >pass it on... > >griffith > > >______________________________________________________________ >Griffith Davies hbrtv219@email.csun.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 17:58:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Mississippi Malcolm McDowell Subject: Re: Heroes and Villains and Limbaugh On Thu, 15 May 1997 TchdnJesus@aol.com wrote: > as the great political theorist Peter Shelley once said, sooner or later, > you're gonna listen to Ralph Nader......... Either he's a great political philosopher or it happened to rhyme with later :). I'll admit my voting for Ralph had mostly to do with a dislike of the other two condidates and the two major parties in general. I'll admit though, that a shared loathing for (spit, cough, faugh) television had something to do with it. A question about the names in songs- is it only first names that count (e.g., Reg, Brenda, etc.) or does, say, Lieutenant Hodges count as well? How about the mysterious Allenby (Allonby? you know, the one that was a professional that you cast your mind back to)? Because if you want to include -all- the enigmatic names, not just the first names, it could be an ultra unbelievable task. Love on ya, Susan ******************************************************************************* "The worship of the beautiful always ends in an orgy"- Benjamin Disraeli, "Lothair", lxxvii ******************************************************************************* ------------------------------ From: tanter@econs.umass.edu Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:22:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Robyn On Radio On Thu, 15 May 1997, mr bean jeans wrote: > >Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:09:37 -0700 (PDT) > >From: Griffith Davies > >To: woj > >Cc: John Jones > >Subject: Robyn On Radio > > > >Robyn will be on the Santa Monica College based KCRW-FM 89.9 FM on > >Wednesday 28 April at 11:00pm. Once again, he will be Tricia Halloran's > >guest on Brave New World. We're about 17 days past this, aren't we?? Marcy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:36:07 -0400 (EDT) From: mr bean jeans Subject: Re: Robyn On Radio also sprach tanter@econs.umass.edu: >> >Robyn will be on the Santa Monica College based KCRW-FM 89.9 FM on >> >Wednesday 28 April at 11:00pm. Once again, he will be Tricia Halloran's >> >guest on Brave New World. >We're about 17 days past this, aren't we?? i believe that's actually may 28th, as robyn'll be nestled in cranies of california at the end of may. i forgot to note that when i forwarded the note. oops. woj ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 22:02:31 -0400 From: wpb9826@is2.nyu.edu (Pete Bilderback) Subject: flame wars > But please think twice before >adding to an off-topic thread that's likely to anger people, and remember >that the people you disagree with probably hold their beliefs as strongly >as you do yours. Yes, but they're wrong. Pete ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 23:19:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Mississippi Malcolm McDowell Subject: Re: Spinbaughlicious On Thu, 15 May 1997, donald andrew snyder wrote: > Just in case anyone wants a divinity school student's perspective (warning > bells should go off), Ding! Round 1! :) > Pascal's wager only makes sense from an exclusivist approach. In other > words, only those religions which make claims about being the only > salvific option need to "cover their ass." Yup. Good point. How many can you think of that don't, though? I can think of two offhand, Buddhism and Taoism, which are of course (surprise) intimately related to each other and are more systems of thought than "religions" as we in the West commonly understand the term. The judgement/salvation option is almost necessary to get the majority of people involved and interested. I mean, most people want some -incentive-, if you catch my drift. > Personally, I don't think any > person of any deep religious sentiment would say that they believe because > of "fear of the Lord." And you claim to have grown up in the Bible Belt! :) This is getting into some very tricky waters here. Perhaps you mean "spiritual inclination" rather than "religious sentiment". Who are you or I to say that all of those fire-and-brimstoners aren't experiencing genuine religious sentiment? In fact, I would say they are. > Paul spends a considerable amount of time showing > that Christians (after Christ has been sent), no longer must be held to > the law. But do remember that the Old Testament is also something Christians are supposed to hold to, and it's full of judgements and wrath. I dig your basic point- and after all, wasn't Christ sent to show just that? But I think most people prefer rules and systems. It's easier when someone sets the rules down for you. Hence the creation of what Blake referred to as "the creeping Jesus" (his term for Christ as understood by many Christians whom Blake thought had completely misunderstood the New Testament), which I understand to represent Christ as (and this is only a rough idea- see W. Blake for the full story :)) another rule-giver rather than someone who was out to break systems down. > Proper action is not the result of fear, but of love: We are no > longer slaves, but sons. Augustine makes this argument the basis of The > Spirit and the Letter. I won't argue with your interpretation, as it is similar to mine. I just wanted to point out that that's not how a lot of people see it or feel it. Incidentally, watching "Bedazzled" again this weekend, I was struck once again by this corollary to the whole "voluntary faith" concept. For those who haven't seen it, it is basically a comedy based on the Faust legend, with Peter Cook as the Devil and Dudley Moore as the poor schmuck he keeps fooling :). Anyway, the Devil explains this very point at one point in the movie, when the Moore character asks why God doesn't "prove" He's there by offering to grant wishes and such the way the Devil does ("He doesn't push Himself forward"). That's stating it pretty plain, I think. It's up to -you- to find faith. And as Stanley Moon (Moore's character) finds out, it's also up to -you- to find happiness, and the instant gratification of your wishes doesn't do a lick of good, in fact, it sets you back, since the Devil is going to trick you every time (with hilarious results in this case, since like all fundamentally serious movies this is a comedy :)). There is no such thing as instant faith or instant happiness, and what looks like it might be usually isn't. Love on ya, Susan not a theology student, just an amateur philosopher :) ******************************************************************************* "The worship of the beautiful always ends in an orgy"- Benjamin Disraeli, "Lothair", lxxvii ******************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 00:24:45 -0500 (CDT) From: John Tyson Littlejohn Subject: Re: Bedazzled On Thu, 15 May 1997, Mississippi Malcolm McDowell wrote: > Incidentally, watching "Bedazzled" again this weekend One of the greatest movies ever. I put it on my list. Peter Cook, who co-wrote/co-starred in the movie went to university at Cambridge, where the Soft Boys came together. JL, bringing everything full circle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 01:22:14 -0500 (CDT) From: donald andrew snyder Subject: Re: Spinbaughlicious Well, since this almost counts as homework...round 2. On Thu, 15 May 1997, Mississippi Malcolm McDowell wrote: > Yup. Good point. How many can you think of that don't, though? I can think > of two offhand, Buddhism and Taoism, which are of course (surprise) > intimately related to each other and are more systems of thought than > "religions" as we in the West commonly understand the term. > > The judgement/salvation option is almost necessary to get the majority of > people involved and interested. I mean, most people want some > -incentive-, if you catch my drift. Defining religion is where most of the issue rests. It's best to think of religion as a family resemblance concept--ala Wittgenstein. Something like "I can't define it, but know what it is when I see it." You know, like pornography. Here are some examples: "the transformation of human existence from self-centredness to Reality-centredness"--John Hick (the Divine and the Eternal One were deemed too theistically coloured) "the primary form of culture in terms of which we human beings explicitly ask the existential question of the meaning of ultimate reality for us"--Schubert Ogden > > Personally, I don't think any > > person of any deep religious sentiment would say that they believe because > > of "fear of the Lord." > > And you claim to have grown up in the Bible Belt! :) Indeed--I guess that's why culture was included:) Anyway, I admit that most of this is about Christian doctrine and not practice. According to the revealed text, a person cannot be saved by fear of the lord, but only by God's grace. > This is getting into some very tricky waters here. Perhaps you mean > "spiritual inclination" rather than "religious sentiment". Who are you or > I to say that all of those fire-and-brimstoners aren't experiencing > genuine religious sentiment? In fact, I would say they are. Actually, I don't know what I was talking about. Religious sentiments depend on a definition of religion (see above). > But do remember that the Old Testament is also something Christians are > supposed to hold to, and it's full of judgements and wrath. I dig your > basic point- and after all, wasn't Christ sent to show just that? But I > think most people prefer rules and systems. It's easier when someone Augustine's main point is that the law only lets you know what you should do, but without God's grace a person is never able to uphold the law. Because of this whole original sin thing, a person's will serves sin and loves it. Until grace turns a person to love God, then they will never be able to not sin. > who haven't seen it, it is basically a comedy based on the Faust legend, Did anyone hear Randy Newman's Faust? It's rather entertaining. My favorite part is where the devil is telling the girl, "The man who shot you in the head, in that Burger King in Tuson, you know he never will be punished for it..." It was playing in Chicago for a while. Oh yeah, Robyn writes great songs with religious sentiments, Andy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 23:46:59 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Spinbaughlicious >Defining religion is where most of the issue rests. It's best to think of >religion as a family resemblance concept--ala Wittgenstein. Something >like "I can't define it, but know what it is when I see it." You know, >like pornography. Here are some examples: >"the transformation of human existence from self-centredness to >Reality-centredness"--John Hick (the Divine and the Eternal One were >deemed too theistically coloured) >"the primary form of culture in terms of which we human beings explicitly >ask the existential question of the meaning of ultimate reality for >us"--Schubert Ogden I read something quite awhile ago which I liked...it said that every religion was required to do only three things: 1) Explain how the universe was created 2) Explain what happens when you die 3) Provide some sort of moral code Not a bad reduction. :) Eb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 11:23:29 +0200 From: wcs Subject: Re: SpewCs a least once every day Gregory Stuart Shell - I will enumerate as you seem to find a primitve structure necessary. 1. I understand and understood that you are a Jew. 2. Your religious conviction (or nationality, depending on your understanding of your faith) is not relevant to the defense of the stupidity of your comments. 3. As this is being typed, I shouldn't have to spell my point out for you again. 4. This is being sent to the group for the sole purpose of defending myself publicly. Unless you deem it necessary to continue, I will not. 5. That you continue to flame me in messages both to me and the group is proof that you have a childish need for attention. 6. Grow up. At 14:10 15.05.97 -0500, you sputtered: >wcs, >I am typing real slow now so YOU can understand. > > >I apologize to the rest of the fegs for these last few flames, and I will >probably get at least one more from wCs unless of course this works, but >this should be my last regarding H&V&L and of course SPINBAUGHLICIOUS. > >Regards, >Gregory S.Shell >Subversive >Specialist >System Analyst and >of course so everyone >remembers in case you >missed it the first time >JEW ------------------------------ From: Terrence M Marks Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 05:30:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Limbaugh and Politics > > light are politics, religion, and "Glass is a supercooled liquid that > > slowly flows, and you can see it in old windows and I don't care what the > > physicists say". If anyone would like to know what Rush Limbaugh has Glass isn't supercool. It's a 3 chord song, but doesn't have the intensity of beauty of Season of the Witch (th standard by which all 3-chord songs are judged) or Airscape. Some Body, however, is supercool. I don't know if it's a liquid or not. > Amen, sister copeland. now let's all sing, "hark the angels come." though you > are slightly wrong. the three biggest flamewars are politics, religion, and > Brian Wilson: Genius or Schmuck.... Well, because I've touched on every other flamewar subject...(Reminds me...sorry about dragging Feg into politics...or was it the other way around...well, anyhow, I'm sorry about it.) Brian Wilson is supercool also. I just heard "Smart Girls" for the first time. Brian Wilson raps. It's kinda stupid in an endearing way (like Portland Arms). It's just so cool because it's...well..Brian rappign abotu how he likes smart girls, with various BB samples in the background. Terry Remember-Jesus is your friend. normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 12:01:55 +0100 (BST) From: M R Godwin Subject: Re: Bedazzled > On Thu, 15 May 1997, Mississippi Malcolm McDowell wrote: > > Incidentally, watching "Bedazzled" again this weekend > > One of the greatest movies ever. I put it on my list. > Peter Cook, who co-wrote/co-starred in the movie went to university at > Cambridge, where the Soft Boys came together. The late great Peter Cook also appears as the preacher at the end of The Princess Bride, which I saw on someone else's 'top films' list. Did anyone see his last interview with Clive Anderson where he played a Scunthorpe football manager who always stressed "The Three M's, Clive, Motivation, Motivation, and Motivation"... - Mike Godwin PS Talking Rob Reiner for a mo, why not Christopher Guest as Syd? He's English, he can play the guitar, he was sensational as Tufnell - but I suppose he's too old now. ------------------------------ From: Clint Golden Subject: Portland Arms CD??!! Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 10:15:28 -0400 Hey-o What's the word on this so far? Is this true? Have my dreams finally been realized?? MUST HAVE!!! PLEASE BUY FOR ME!!!! Ahem...sorry 'bout that. I have to work on that whole dignity thing. If anyone runs across one of these, please pick it up, as I will pay for the disc, your trouble, postage - or, if anyone would like to trade it for the Dylan covers boot (the boot, not the promo), that could be arranged as well. Thanks for any and all help! clint ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 11:06:40 -0700 From: Debora Subject: Round Flat Records Thanx for the info on Kung Fu Fighting, Griffith! For those interested, I just found their website at http://www.rocketfish.com/roundflat/. Debora ------------------------------ Subject: Portland Arms Mistake From: guambat@juno.com (Total Fat 17 g) Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 14:04:31 EDT I've already sent one post begging for forgiveness and proclaiming my own stupidity--but apparently by the number of messages that keep pouring in regarding my mistaken statement about Portland Arms, let me say it again: I screwed up... I SCREWED UP! I SCREWED UP!!!! I switched the titles by mistake and got "Rout of the Clones" mixed up with "Portland Arms". Therefore, there is no Portland Arms CD... I repeat... there is no Portland Arms CD.. There is, however, a big, fat idiot--and that would be me. So sorry, The Guambat ------------------------------ Subject: Kung Fu Fighting From: guambat@juno.com (Total Fat 17 g) Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 15:21:59 EDT I have a spare copy (of the Alvin Lives at Leeds CD with "Kung Fu Fighting" on it) that I will trade someone... ...here's what I'm looking for--the "Yip Song" CD single, the one with "Bright Fresh Flower" & "The Live-in Years" as B-sides. I'll trade you straight up. Any takers? Jim "Guambat" guambat@juno.com ------------------------------ From: Hedblade@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 15:35:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Kung Fu Fighting Griffith wrote in connection to Alvin Lives (In Leeds): << I quite like cud's version of "Bohemian Rhapsody". >> Anybody else out there a Cud fan (no, that is NOT C.U.B. but C.U.D. as in what a cow would chew)? I need info on them. Where are they now? What was their last release? I only own Asquarious- what else should I look for? Can y'all help? Sincerely, Jay H ------------------------------ Subject: Glass Flamebait Date: Fri, 16 May 97 16:16:43 -0000 From: The Great Quail "Fegmaniax!" The Toast Queen states oh-so-provocatively: > IMO the three flamewars that produce the most heat and the least >light are politics, religion, and "Glass is a supercooled liquid that >slowly flows, and you can see it in old windows and I don't care what the >physicists say". What? My God, this is the exact kind of thinking that makes me furious! I mean, haven't we all been through this tedious flame war *far* too many times? Those freaking chemists, man. Always ready to start a fight. "Supercooled liquid," my ass! Only morons - and by that I include all those ninnies in the Royal Society, from Boyle to Lord Kelvin and all the way down - would buy into such an idea. Glass is a solid, and that's that. This all goes back to the Arabian/Venetian alchemist question. Just because those pompous faux-Florentines were better glass blowers . . . I mean, who ever heard of anything like a "supercooled liquid!" Ohh nnnooooooo, glass has to be special. Had to hold up the Renaissance until we could invent the retort and the alembic, didn't we? But did they stop there? Of course not! Then we had blue glass, with new improved cobalt! A coincidence that cobalt takes its name from Kobold, a German goblin? Of course not! It further proves the esoteric German/Italian ties, highlighting the cross currents of this Eurocentric glass conspiracy! I though this stuff was all laid out in "The Chymical Wedding of Christian Rosenbeaker." Why the hell did we even bother to *have* the Thirty Year's War for? And before that, the driving of the Moors out of Spain? I mean, *Hello!* Can you say Oppressed Baghdad Clay Methodology versus the Euroglass Dogma Cultural Monolith? Good Christ, I am sick of explaining this to people. Glass, glass glass, has to be bloody special. And not content with blue, we had to have green and brown glass, and for what? Oh, and don't even *think* of giving me that hydrogen peroxide/silver nitrate dreck. I'll believe in ultraviolet light when I see it, baby, and not a moment sooner! Green and brown glass . . . just more crap to confuse future recycle programs with! More stained glass for the cathedrals - but hey, isn't that why the cut off Laviosier's Head? There was a blow to those damned chemists, delivered by the harbingers of the Age of Reason. The Masons were into that one up to their eyeballs, I'll warrant, or at least until that Glass infiltrator Robespierre. (Who, by the way, was a humble glazier named "Glassy Sven" before he became a tyrant.) Oh, yes, we've all heard that supercooled liquid thing - and what a lame explanation it is! Remember, this is from the same people who brought us the concepts of Quintessence, Caloric Fluid, the Luminous Ether, and the infamous Phlogiston World Tour of the Late Eighteenth Century. Not to mention Cold Fusion, Flubber, and Buckeyballs! Do they take us for a bunch of fucking idiots? "But have you ever looked at the glass in an old house . . . " Oh, *please*! What a poor excuse to cover something as simple as shoddy craftsmanship! I mean, look at any pane of glass - does it sag? No! Just a few cases in those (by now certainly nearing the status of an urban legend) so called "old houses." Will the Glass Conspiracy ever stop? Or will they not rest until we are all thralls to GOG: the Glaziers Occupational Government? And the whole machineries of their lies and corruption! I will never forget the way they tried to co-opt our hero Einstein, coupling his greatness with that horrid four hour so-called "opera" from the seventies - and how obvious it was, too, that this "minimalist" composer would go by the name of Philip Glass. . . . Damn their eyes, these devils! In their arrogance they no longer even feel the need for secrecy . . . . . . . but we'll show them! So flame away, Fegs! I have held my own in this flame war on many, many lists, and I am not afraid to climb on my soapbox again! Al-Quail ibn Hmuh ibn Feggi ---------------------------------+-------------------------------- The Great Quail, K.S.C. | TheQuail@cthulhu.microserve.com | "Keeper of the Libyrinth" | Sarnath - The Quailspace Web Page: riverrun Discordian Society | http://www.microserve.net/~thequail 73 De Chirico Street | Arkham, Orbis Tertius 2112-42 | ** What is FEGMANIA? ** "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents." -- H.P. Lovecraft ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 09:58:23 -0700 (PDT) From: misplaced joan of arc Subject: animation recommendation Hi! I've never written to the group before. I saw a very nice animated short last night in the Spike and Mike Festival that's touring various cinemas in the states (and Europe?). It's called _Hilary_ and it is by an English animator named Anthony Hodgson. The story is very Robynesque - very meandering, with all sorts of subtle images and hidden meanings, but told by this sleepy, bland character in Robyn's kind of pacing. It's stop motion animation. The puppets are wonderful, with richly textured backgrounds and peculiar lighting. Anyhow, has anyone seen it yet? If you get the chance, you should. I loved it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 18:53:42 -0400 From: mr bean jeans Subject: Re: SpewCs a least once every day also sprach wcs: >4. This is being sent to the group for the sole purpose of defending myself >publicly. Unless you deem it necessary to continue, I will not. this is being sent to the group for the sole purpose of publically announcing that this discussion has come to an end, regardless of anyone's perceived need to defend themself. i'm glad to hear that both of you have indicated you will not carry on any longer. please don't. anyone who feels the need to follow-up on this, please do so off-list and don't bother to cc me. woj, with his listowner hat on ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The End of this Fegmaniax Digest. *sob* .