From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org To: fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org Reply-To: fegmaniax@ecto.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org Subject: Feg Digest V5 #78 Fegmaniax Digest Volume 5 Number 78 Monday April 21 1997 To post, send mail to fegmaniax@ecto.org To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@ecto.org with the words "unsubscribe fegmaniax-digest" in the message body. Send comments, etc. to the listowner at owner-fegmaniax@ecto.org FegMANIAX! Web Page: http://remus.rutgers.edu/~woj/fegmaniax/index.html Archives are available at ftp://www.ecto.org/pub/lists/fegmaniax/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Today's Topics: ------- ------- Throwing Muses/RH Wafflehead; Minneapolis??? Re: The "complete" trout player? Throwing Muses...1% Robyn content. Aarrgghh Re: Songs I Wish I Had written Re: Songs I Wish I Had written Re: The "complete" bass player? Re: The "complete" bass player? Re: The "complete" bass player? Re: The "complete" bass player? Viva Saturn Re: Two tendrils up Re: The "complete" bass player? Throwing Muses Respect v Eye Odds & sods ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:10:32 -0400 From: wpb9826@is2.nyu.edu (Pete Bilderback) Subject: Throwing Muses/RH John B. Jones writes: >And now the Muses are no more. There was a recent LA times article where >Kristin says they couldn't carry on anymore, though they really want to, >there is just no money. they are not making enough to continue. but they >are not going to officially say that the band is no more, because they are >hoping that one of them will win the lottery or something. I think there are some parallels to the Egyptians here. Although Robyn pretty much claims that the Egyptians had run their course artistically (and maybe they had), it's also a lot more economical for him to tour solo. Ditto for Kristin Hersh. As much as I will miss the Muses, the breakup is most likely in Kristin's best career interests. Even if her fan-base doesn't expand as a solo artist (and I think it might), it probably won't diminish much either. It will be a lot easier for Kristin to feed her kids when she doesn't have to split the money with a band. The same is pretty much true for Robyn. The Throwing Muses home page (http://www.throwingmusic.com) is one of the best official band pages I've seen. It has a statement from the band on the breakup, an official discography, an ongoing favorite album poll, a terrific bulletin board on which their manager, (and K's husband) Billy will answer questions, plus articles, links etc. BTW, I like all of the Muses albums, even Hunkpapa, which (if you accept the scientific basis of the on-line poll) is far and away the least popular TM album among the band's fans. But hey, I also like all of Robyn's albums (although _PI_ and _GD_ would be at the bottom of my list). Pete ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 97 09:24:19 -500 From: spine@iastate.edu (James Francis) Subject: Wafflehead; Minneapolis??? > One of my RH best memories > was seeing the Egyptians in Philly on the Respect tour, and they did > Wafflehead (I loved the cheese grater) and Robyn was wiggling his skinny > English butt around and slurping the mike, and then said (add that dry > tone to the voice): "Let's see Natalie Merchant do *this!*" In Chicago he said "Dennis, we need more plastic. . .hoods." Is anyone else out there waiting for a Minneapolis show? --"Jim" Francis ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:33:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Bayard Subject: Re: The "complete" trout player? nick winked: > Susan, Jay and whoever else is likely to meet up... can at least *one* > of you please remember to take a camera? --and don't "do a Bayard" (i.e. > don't forget to use it!) :) all my years of dedication to robyn obsessiveness, and this is what i get remembered for. sheesh. and anyway, it was Gene who brought a camera. i just moved too quickly for him to capture me in it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:41:23 -0500 From: Lobsterman Subject: Throwing Muses...1% Robyn content. >Date: Mon, 21 Apr 97 10:01:50 -500 >From: spine@iastate.edu (James Francis) >To: Lobsterman >Subject: Throwing Muses...1% Robyn content. > > > > NEXT TO NO ROBYN CONTENT**** > > I love the Muses as well, and thought I'd throw in a couple > notes to jbj's excellent analysis. If you're not going to read > this you should at least give Kristin Hersh's HIPS AND MAKERS > a chance sometime. It's all acoustic, all brilliant, it'll give > you shivers and it'll leave you humming catchy melodies--it's > a five-star album, in my opinion (I'm an EYE guy, and I think > this record has a lot in common with Robyn's). > >> Here then, is my album by album review of the Muses career: >> >> >> Throwing Muses--Throwing Muses (import only but all that will change April >> of 1998)....their first album. This album is jarring, primal, and >> beautiful. I would wait to get this Terry. It will be released on Ryko >> next year as a 2cd set along with the Chains Changed EP and 1985 demos. >> > This one is still my absolute favorite. There are songs on here that > positively give me the shivers--the first song (title escapes me), >"Hate > My Way" and "Delicate Cutters" especially. > >> Throwing Muses--House Tornado. > > Great. Well worth having, though I favor the first album. > >> Throwing Muses- Hunkpapa. >> Throwing Muses- The Real Ramona. > > Yikes. >> >> Throwing Muses--Counting Backwards EP....This, though, is essential. >> Counting Backwards was the first single for TRR. The b-sides are top >> notch, better than the album stuff. Cottonmouth (about K's half-sister and >> former band member Tanya) is my favorite Muses song. > > Wow! I've never been able to find this, though I'd always hoped > there was a studio recording of "Cottonmouth." >> >> Throwing Muses--Red Heaven. This was the first album made after the band >> fell apart (Tanya left to form belly). They opted not to fill Tanya's >> place on second guitar and harmonies and instead concentrated on K's guitar >> and vocals and David's drums are way upfront in the mix. This is as raw >> and primal and woman as the very first album, the songs are good by >> themselves, but don't flow together very well as an album. >> --------------------------------------------- > > Have to disagree here. This is my other favorite. It's brilliant! > Even has a duet with Bob Mould, though that's not nearly as > impressive as the rest of the album. I'd recommend this to everyone. > >> Throwing Muses- Firepile 1 & 2 EPs. . . .There is a US promo that >>combines songs >> from both eps for kind of a best of, if you can find it. > > Great. I have a tape of the promo. Nearly as good as above-- > but it has the silliest > title. Something like "Bonus Songs" or "More Tracks" or > something. No artwork, but great. >> >> Throwing Muses- The Curse. import only live album. I don't listen to >> this much. > > I love this, though it'll give you a headache. There are songs > on here though that are great and which I've never found recorded > anywhere. I'm thinking of "Two Step," some others. > > The one you skipped, and I alluded to above (yes, I know it's not > a Muses record) is: > >Kristin Hersh--Hips and Makers. Absolutely beautiful, scary, haunting. > Great acoustic guitar work--all acoustic, quite sparse, quite >brilliant. > I think this is the most consistent album she's ever produced. Her > songwriting is at its absolute best. > >> Throwing Muses- University. >> Throwing Muses--Limbo. > > I like these, too, though they don't hold together as well for me > as Red Heaven. > >> And now the Muses are no more. There was a recent LA times article where >> Kristin says they couldn't carry on anymore, though they really want to, >> there is just no money. they are not making enough to continue. > > This is sad. Is Kristin going to do some more solo work? I've > heard that Hips and Makers was a better seller than most of the > Muses records. I hope so--she's a fantastic songwriter. > > --"Jim" Francis > -jbj /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-//-/-/-/-/-/-/- John B. Jones e-mail:jojones@mailbox.syr.edu web: http://web.syr.edu/~jojones "Driving Aloud" was originally called "Driving to Portland." -Robyn Hitchcock \-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:33:31 +0200 From: wcs Subject: Aarrgghh Hi all, I've been away for awhile (not that I'm all that talkative anyway), but my wife and I just had a frustrating Robyn experience in London and I have to share. We were in London for our anniversary and upon arriving, we picked up a copy of Time Out (one of the two mags that tells you everything that's going on in London). So riding the Tube from Heathrow, we're flipping through it and see a listing for RH at Dingwalls on the evening of our anniversary. The last time we saw him was her birthday, so we laughed about him popping up on our important days and made plans to go see him. We tried calling the club for two days in order to get tickets but no one ever picked up, so we got there early on Tuesday and waited around. After standing in an empty parking lot for too long, we decided to try to find a back door and ask someone. After all the build up, we were told that it was a misprint. What a bummer. As a consolation prize, the next day I bought a copy of Robyn's '88 Athens show (Stand Back, Dennis!). At keast it was a show, even if we didn't get to see him again. Damned Time Out! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 13:43:13 -0500 (CDT) From: donald andrew snyder Subject: Re: Songs I Wish I Had written Thought that I'd try > (these are all songs that are in my style, only better...) > Songs I Wish I Had Written: Skyway, Achin' to Be--Replacements If I were the Man You Wanted--Lyle Lovett She Doesn't Exist, Sleeping Knights--Robyn Your Love is My Rest--John Hiatt Cynical Girl--Marshall Crenshaw Days, Muswell Hillbillies--Kinks Except the New Girl--Chris Isaak Alison, Indoor Fireworks--Elvis Costello Green Thoughts--Smithereens For No One, I'm Looking Through You--Beatles Back on the Chain Gang--Pretenders Simple Twist of Fate, ...St Augustine--Bob Dylan Blue--Jayhawks Flight 505, Dead Flowers--Rolling Stones Anchorage--Michelle Shocked Reckless Kind, Walking on a Wire--Richard Thompson Pale Blue Eyes--Velvet Underground > Almost: (Very good songs, but not *exactly* my style.) Probably better than my style... I Want You--Elvis Costello Johhny Mathis' Feet--American Music Club Airscape--Robyn The Way Young Lovers Do--Van Morrison Sunny Afternoon, Waterloo Sunset--Kinks Hardcore UFO's--Guided By Voices Ballad of El Goodo--Big Star Rain Dogs--Tom Waits Don't Look Back--Pere Ubu She Steers By Lightning, Devonside--Richard Thompson Tangled Up in Blue, Sad Eyed Lady, My Back Pages--Bob Dylan Dirty Blvd--Lou Reed Sigmund Freud's Impersonation of Albert Einstein in America--Randy Newman Take care, Andy Snyder ------------------------------ From: "The Midnight Fish" Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:49:51 -0800 Subject: Re: Songs I Wish I Had written fegBretheren and Sisteren: I have decided to chime in on this one. Great idea for a thread, Terry. :) I have too many musical influences to be limited to "what is me" and "what isn't me". However, I am not into a lot of new music, so I am excluding anything from the 1990s. What I write depends on my mood -- likewise what I decide to put on the turntable or in the CD player. I cannot limit myself to one style or genre. I have played guitar in an ELP-type trio, bass in a Top 40 country band, keyboards in a Grateful Dead jam band, solo acoustic folk, and everything in between. My tastes in music -- as well as my favourite songs -- are just as varied. That said, here I go: Songs I Wish I Had Written: * Hickory Wind (Gram Parsons) (N.B. Probably my all-time favourite song) * Your Song (Reginald Dwight) * (What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love and Understanding (The Nickster) * Maggot Brain (Funkadelic) * Sleepless (King Crimson) * Discipline (King Crimson) * Indiscipline (King Crimson) (I repeat myself when I'm distressed...) * Here Comes The Flood (Peter Gabriel) * Ripplin' Waters (Nitty Gritty Dirt Band) (The interplay between the acoustic guitar, electric guitar and mandolin is heavenly. This song is as comfortable as a familiar friend on a cold morning in the mountains.) * Peaches En Regalia (FVZ) (Mental floss. Jazz From Hell. Call it what you like; this song RAWKS!) * Knock Yourself Out (Tower Of Power) (I'm a sucker for good, greasy funk. It doesn't get much greasier than this.) * I Guess I Just Wasn't Made For These Times (The Boys Of The Beach) (My sentiment exactly, Brian) * In My Life (The Beatles) (Dedicated to my four friends and family members who died last year.) * Blackmail (10cc) (As is usually the case with these guys, tongue is placed firmly in cheek. And how about that guitar solo?) * Little Wing (James Marshall Hendrix) (I love the chord progression. Divinely inspired.) * I Wish (Stevie Wonder) * Political Science (Randy Newman) * Ninth Symphony (Ludwig von) (I get chills listening to this.) * It Makes No Difference (The Band; lyrics by Dylan) * My Back Pages (Robert Zimmerman) * Airscape, Madonna Of The Wasps, Queen Elvis, My Wife and My Dead Wife, Chinese Bones, Insanely Jealous & the entire IODoT album (some guy named Hitchcock) There 'tis. My far-from-exhaustive list of songs I wish I had written. Then there's one song I'm almost certain I wrote: "Here's Your Sign" by Travis Tritt and Bill Engvall. Have a great day, --g "Fashion is the Bobby Ewing shower scene of life." --Hamish (Of The Parentheses) Simpson ********************** Glen E. Uber glen@metro.net http://metro.net/glen/ ********************** Proof that Sid Vicious was really Stu Sutcliffe: * Both...*AHEM*...'played' bass * Both left their bands behind for the women they loved * Both helped to popularize new hairstyles ------------------------------ From: "The Midnight Fish" Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:49:50 -0800 Subject: Re: The "complete" bass player? CC: fegmaniax@ecto.org, WIS@worldnet.att.net So sayeth Terrence M Marks : > 2) Andy has trouble with "Uncorrected Personality Traits", with or > without backflips. I don't remember any bass part on "Uncorrected Personality Traits". > but you'd be hard-pressed to argue that he's better at it > than, say, Yes > And Bob could not play something off of > Yessongs properly. (Though it would be cool if he covered Perpetual > Change) What is up with using Yes as a point of comparison? I have a feeling that Bob wouldn't want to play anything off Yessongs, even if he could play it correctly. > > (Note: Again, this is not a slam on Andy or Matt. The Lizard, > Kingdom of Love, Raymond Chandler Evening, Underwater Moonlight and > The Leopard are all outstanding bass parts.) > Who actually played bass on the song "Underwater Moonlight"? Matthew, Robyn and Kimberley are all credited with bass on that album, though no individual track personnel listings are given. Enough for today, --g "Fashion is the Bobby Ewing shower scene of life." --Hamish (Of The Parentheses) Simpson ********************** Glen E. Uber glen@metro.net http://metro.net/glen/ ********************** Proof that Sid Vicious was really Stu Sutcliffe: * Both...*AHEM*...'played' bass * Both left their bands behind for the women they loved * Both helped to popularize new hairstyles ------------------------------ From: Terrence M Marks Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 15:07:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: The "complete" bass player? > > > 2) Andy has trouble with "Uncorrected Personality Traits", with or > > without backflips. > > I don't remember any bass part on "Uncorrected Personality Traits". No..it's got vocal parts. And (when performed live) the vocal parts are goofed 90% of the time (not always by Andy, though...it seems to be about even distribution) > > but you'd be hard-pressed to argue that he's better at it > > than, say, Yes > > > And Bob could not play something off of > > Yessongs properly. (Though it would be cool if he covered Perpetual > > Change) > > What is up with using Yes as a point of comparison? Well, when I think "technically proficient", Yes comes to mind. > Who actually played bass on the song "Underwater Moonlight"? Matthew, > Robyn and Kimberley are all credited with bass on that album, though > no individual track personnel listings are given. I believe that Matt played bass on most of the original album. And definitely Kingdom of Love and Underwater Moonlight Terry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:59:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Truman Peyote Subject: Re: The "complete" bass player? On Mon, 21 Apr 1997, Terrence M Marks wrote: > > back-flip in mid song without breaking time! THAT, however, does not > > make him a better bass player than, say, Charlie Mingus, Robbie > > Shakespeare, Adam Clayton, Michael Manring or even ....our Andy! What about Charlie Haden? Paul McCartney? Jaco Pastorius? John Gustafson (Roxy Music, for those unfamiliar)? Or even Nick Lowe? Just to mention a few... All the players we've been talking about are good bass players in their own way. This "who's the better bass player" discussion is a bit silly. And as far as backflips go- they are certainly an excellent stage stunt, but you can't -hear- one, know what I'm saying? I don't think gymnastic ability ought to be part of our considerations :). > > The trick is knowing what will be the most effective contribution to the > > music at any time. This is really the key, I think. > > hardest thing to do is to simplify. (Virtuoso soloing is another thing > > entirely, of course--but a relatively new aspect to bass playing) Not really. Only new if you aren't a jazz listener, in which case it's around 40 years old or thereabouts ;). > Well... > 1) Mr. Wooten can do a back-flip and keep time > 2) Andy has trouble with "Uncorrected Personality Traits", with or without > backflips. There's a bass part (non-vocal) on that song? I think I missed something here. > with the music and is much more technically proficient. Bob Dylan's > singing and guitar playing work quite well with his material, but you'd be > hard-pressed to argue that he's better at it than, say, Yes. Oh fer chrissakes, what's with the Yes thing? :) And yes, he -is- better at it -in his own way-. I don't want to know what Yes covering Bob Dylan would sound like. I'm sure the result would be ghastly. Try not to misunderstand me here- what I'm trying to say is that "technically proficient" and "good" are not necessarily synonyms, and different styles are appropriate for different kinds of music. Ray Davies was once misquoted as saying that he could sing better than Frank Sinatra, when what he actually said was that he could sing "You Really Got Me" better than Frank Sinatra could, and I'm pretty sure that no one would argue with that. That sort of gets to the heart of what I mean. > would have to practice for a few days for Vic's songs. And Bob could not > play something off of Yessongs properly. (Though it would be cool if he > covered Perpetual Change) Actually I think it would be scary. To each his own. > ps. Could someone explain this "Good Times" hoax thing? I keep hearing > about it, but I never heard it. It's a hoax thing :). It's supposed to be some heinous virus that you get when you open your email. It is impossible to get a virus through simply reading your email, therefore this is a hoax. The only way you could conceivably get a virus through your email is if it is sent as an attachment which you then decide to run. But frankly I can't imagine why anyone would be so foolish as to run some unknown program attachment they recieved from a total stranger. Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 15:06:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Truman Peyote Subject: Re: The "complete" bass player? > > What is up with using Yes as a point of comparison? > > Well, when I think "technically proficient", Yes comes to mind. Hehehehe you should get together and jam with my old roommate. He had a nightmare jones for prog rock. Remember that song from the children's show with the Lambchop puppet (I forget the name off the top of my head)- "This is the song that doesn't end/It just goes on and on my friend". Well that kinda describes his keyboard style. He's always giving me a hard time about the lack of technical proficiency in a lot of the music I like. > I believe that Matt played bass on most of the original album. > And definitely Kingdom of Love and Underwater Moonlight Yeah, I'll go with that. I don't know for sure but it does sound like him. I'm still kinda amazed that he ended up in the Thompson Twins, but then Phil Manzanera ended up playing in Concrete Blonde so I suppose anything's possible. Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ From: Terrence M Marks Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:42:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Viva Saturn I picked up "Soundmind" yesterday. I reccomend that you-all pick it up yesterday also. Best stuff I've heard in the last two weeks: (I'm a high-volume, high-quality music consumer. To me, a week of music is a lot. Soundmind beat out everything by the Police, George's Let it Be outtakes, The Rutles, Roger Ruskin Spear's Unusual/Electric Shocks, a cooler-than-the-single version of Good Vibrations, Brian Wilson's Sweet Insanity, and several other things) If you like Rain Parade, pick it up. Soundmind is the most Rain Parade-ish Viva Saturn album. Brightside is less so. (on Brightside, Rain Parade: Viva Saturn :: The Yardbirds:Led Zeppelin). And Mr. Roback is recording a new album as we speak. If you don't like Rain Parade, I'll gladly send you a tape of their stuff, and you'll probably start liking them. (I can't think of a real Robyn parallel, though...Underwater Moonliht is, I guess, the closest) (Oh...and Viva Saturn is sort of from the ashes of Rain Parade) Well, get the album... Terrence Marks Second Student in the Tendo Kasumi School of Philosophy Remember-Jesus is your friend. normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:39:48 -0400 From: lj lindhurst Subject: Re: Two tendrils up > I no longer wnat to be adressed as Riel on this list. Henceforth >I shall be known as...Lord of The Dance. (I stole that from some >dancing guy). > Yours, > Lord of the Dance, > who thinks Luna is the most overlookde >band of the decade, and "Strange Days" the most underrated film of >the same decade. NO! NO! I AM THE LORD OF THE DANCE!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 13:57:34 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: The "complete" bass player? >Oh fer chrissakes, what's with the Yes thing? :) >And yes, he -is- better at it -in his own way-. I don't want to know what >Yes covering Bob Dylan would sound like. Well, Yes did cover Paul Simon ("America") and the Beatles ("Every Little Thing," not to mention a "Give Peace A Chance" quote on The Yes Album)...not so far from Dylan. ;) Regarding bass, ain't nobody gonna mention John Entwistle? Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:06:37 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Throwing Muses I went to the Muses concert last night in Santa Ana, supposedly their next-to-last show. Nothing too earth-shattering...the whole band performed sitting down, which sorta sapped a lot of the energy. She took a lot of requests, however, which was nice. For me, the highlight was "Rabbit Is Dying" off the debut, which I'd never heard them perform live before. Eb ------------------------------ From: Terrence M Marks Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 17:28:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Respect v Eye As I had guessed, there seems to be a heavy alignment along the John/Bob/Eye axis... So...how do you think Moss Elixer compares to Eye and Respect? (or Bob, Brian, Paul, John, George or Ringo) [or did we go throught is before] Terrence Marks Second Student in the Tendo Kasumi School of Philosophy Remember-Jesus is your friend. normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ From: HAMISH_SIMPSON@HP-Sonoma-om1.om.hp.com Date: Mon, 21 Apr 97 09:04:34 -0700 Subject: Odds & sods Item Subject: cc:Mail Text Yowsa fegs, > In "Night Ride to Trinidad," there is a throwaway background > fragment that seems to consist of the words, "Irene, the coast is > clear," set to a melody taken from "Revolution 9." Has this been > established as intentional? Hmmmm, I thought the end line in "Night Ride" was "I dream of Robespierre" (spelling notwithstanding). > THAT, however, does not make him a better bass player than, say, > Charlie Mingus, Robbie Shakespeare, Adam Clayton, Michael Manring or > even ....our Andy! Whoaah!! Adam who?? We are talking about Mr tone deaf U2 bass player who got the gig because he had a decent guitar and plays duff notes on official releases aren't we? Just asking. > pss. Burger King is now using Squeeze in their commercials. That's > enough to make me eat there again...(they used the Seminoles in > their commercials...in Gainesville...) Toymaster in the UK used the Icicle Works "Evangeline". Where will it end? (H) BTW, I like "technically proficient" bass players too. However, I wouldn't say they were "better". Sometimes they just ain't got no soul. It usually ends up as a technical demonstration and not art. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The End of this Fegmaniax Digest. *sob* .