From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org To: fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org Reply-To: fegmaniax@ecto.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org Subject: Feg Digest V5 #74 Fegmaniax Digest Volume 5 Number 74 Thursday April 17 1997 To post, send mail to fegmaniax@ecto.org To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@ecto.org with the words "unsubscribe fegmaniax-digest" in the message body. Send comments, etc. to the listowner at owner-fegmaniax@ecto.org FegMANIAX! Web Page: http://remus.rutgers.edu/~woj/fegmaniax/index.html Archives are available at ftp://www.ecto.org/pub/lists/fegmaniax/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Today's Topics: ------- ------- Re: Beautiful Queen Promo Disc Re: Unrelated thoughts/Nirvana plagerism/Kinky things Re: Beatles, Bawb Re: Beautiful Queen Promo Disc Re: Truth and Beauty and other quarks Re: Beatles, Bawb Re: Beatles, Bawb Picking teams Re: Black sea fleet, Curlandia Re: Unrelated thoughts/Nirvana plagerism/Kinky things Re: Unrelated thoughts/Nirvana plagerism/Kinky things Re: Apples, Oranges, and Oily Rags... The great debate George vs. John Nudity, Strong language, and Adult RH Content Re: Truth and Beauty and other quarks Re: George vs. John Re: The great debate -Reply fanzines Re: Sweet Re: Unrelated thoughts/Nirvana plagerism/Kinky things Re: Unrelated thoughts/Nirvana plagerism/Kinky things Re: Unrelated thoughts/Nirvana plagerism/Kinky things Damned ------------------------------ From: Hedblade@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:05:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Beautiful Queen Promo Disc Louie and woj exchanged info on the new Robyn promo with the Dylan tracks on it. Here's my addition: I just got off the phone with my local Warner Brothers rep, and she confirmed that this item is now available. She was on the road and couldn't give me the details, but said that her copies just arrived last week and that she hasn't even had the chance to send them out yet. From her mouth, to my ears, to your computer screen: "I didn't receive any warning about this disc, so I have no idea if this is an ultra limited pressing, or if we've got tons of them. I'm waiting to here from my head of promotion to find out if I should just hand them out, or be sellective about who gets them." She also was curious if there might be a tour coming around, as stuff like this is usually used for that kind of promotion. We can all hope, right? So, unless someone else gets the info first (which I assume someone here will!) I should have a copy of this in my hands next week sometime and I'd be happy to post all of the details including the info I get from her about the "rareness" issue. My assumption is that we've got another "Live Death" on our hands here, so snap it up if you see it! Hope that helps. Sincerely, Jay ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 18:40:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Truman Peyote Subject: Re: Unrelated thoughts/Nirvana plagerism/Kinky things On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 HAMISH_SIMPSON@HP-Sonoma-om1.om.hp.com wrote: > In an attempt to start a new thread, a thought struck me on the > stripped down/popped up debate. It seems that most of the people who > dig "Eye" first and "PI" later are guitarists and mostly of the "solo > acoustic" type. I plead guilty. Although actually my guitar is an electric. But I did play an acoustic for almost a year. > another retro fad. Next year no one will remember. Fashion is the > Bobby Ewing shower scene of life! (Wow, I thing I might use that one > again.) I'm not sure I understand this comment. But since I'm a little squicked at the idea of seeing that guy in the shower I will assume it is a negative statement :). Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:18:48 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Beatles, Bawb Yikes, I gotta figure out how to get off the digest format. :( >From: normal@grove.ufl.edu > >George Harrison is my favourite Beatle, because his solo career >is the best... (Note: The Beatles didn't become gigantic until they added >Ringo..) Garsh! Well, I have no doubt that this is the first AND last time I'll ever hear someone say that Harrison has the best post-Beatles solo career.... And I think the Beatles explosion in 1963/1964 was due to a lot more factors than Ringo's arrival. Sheesh. >I think that "Blown Away" tops "War is Over" or "Imagine".. Uhh, I believe that's "Blow Away," you unrepentant George lover, you. ;P >I say that it ain't a song unless it has a string section. GOD, I hope you're kidding. Otherwise, you've just dropped straight into my "Take All Opinions with a Grain of Salt" file. >Bob Dylan isn't a bad musician. His songs work in that >setting. But compared to, say, Yes, his songs look kinda 3-chordy and >simplistic. That's what I'm saying. So don't compare Bob Dylan to Yes, then. >From: Truman Peyote > >None of the solo Beatles' work even touches "Plastic Ono Band" in my >opinion. Not even John's later solo work, certainly not Paul's, and not >George's either. It all sounds bland by comparison. I agree totally with that. In fact, I like Plastic Ono Band better than almost all the Beatles records...and the Beatles are my all-time favorite group. >From: "The Midnight Fish" > >I don't know. _Plastic Ono Band_ and _All Things Must Pass_ are pretty >damn close in terms of emotional outpouring, musicality and brilliant >songwriting. _Plastic OnO Band_ is John at his tortured best while >"ATMP" is George's statement that he could write songs, too. I like All Things MP a lot, but I rank it substantially below Plastic Ono Band, which is probably among my Top 10 favorite records ever. The overblown production of ATMP hasn't aged too well. >Essentially, George shot his creative wad on _All Things Must Pass_ >and wasn't able to come close to it with anything else he ever >recorded (Wilburys aside). Yep, exactly. I don't think any George Harrison album is worth owning at all, beyond All Things Must Pass. I do also own Wonderwall Music, but that's just for laughs, basically. >From: Hedblade@aol.com > >if you just want to go by >volume of material and consistancy, Wilson DOES have a background of silly >surf songs, the period of total brilliance in his career is fairly short, and >what has he done as of late? I don't agree. Wilson's brilliance has been very steady, in my estimation. It's just that his output has been so sporadic. When the stuff comes out, I dig it. I think his first solo album (1988) is tremendous -- the only things that hurt it are a few lousy lyrics and too many stale synthesizers. On a melodic level, it's SPECTACULAR. Eb ------------------------------ From: Hedblade@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:05:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Beautiful Queen Promo Disc Louie and woj exchanged info on the new Robyn promo with the Dylan tracks on it. Here's my addition: I just got off the phone with my local Warner Brothers rep, and she confirmed that this item is now available. She was on the road and couldn't give me the details, but said that her copies just arrived last week and that she hasn't even had the chance to send them out yet. From her mouth, to my ears, to your computer screen: "I didn't receive any warning about this disc, so I have no idea if this is an ultra limited pressing, or if we've got tons of them. I'm waiting to here from my head of promotion to find out if I should just hand them out, or be sellective about who gets them." She also was curious if there might be a tour coming around, as stuff like this is usually used for that kind of promotion. We can all hope, right? So, unless someone else gets the info first (which I assume someone here will!) I should have a copy of this in my hands next week sometime and I'd be happy to post all of the details including the info I get from her about the "rareness" issue. My assumption is that we've got another "Live Death" on our hands here, so snap it up if you see it! Hope that helps. Sincerely, Jay ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:26:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Truman Peyote Subject: Re: Truth and Beauty and other quarks Before I add my comments here I just wanted to say "Wow". You write fabulously, Quail. On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, The Great Quail wrote: > It is this flawed attempt to > capture pain and sorrow, joy and longing; fumbling fingers trying to map > out the human heart with imperfect materials. And we resonate to that - > we recognize the humanity in that, and we respond to it with tears, with > a knowing epiphany, with a mute understanding that turns words to ashes > and leaves us silent. There is a shared apprehension of the human soul. Thank you for articulating what I was basically trying to say. This is exactly what I meant by saying "more human". And this is exactly why this is the music I turn to in moments of pain and questioning. I'd rather keep company with someone else who is on the same page. > "Eye" - with all its quirks, oddities, charms, false notes, and moments > of haunting transcendence - certainly belongs here, as does Joyce's > "Ulysses," Dylan's "Blood on the Tracks," Lennon's "Plastic Ono Band" and > Wim Wender's "Wings of Desire." (Please, I am not comparing genius levels > here; just similiar strivings in different media.) John Cale's "Helen of Troy" must be added here. Though it certainly isn't the album most people would consider his masterpiece ("Paris 1919" and "Fear" are generally held to be that), it's the one that resonates the most with me. Though less perfect than "Paris", which is undeniably a gem (and by this I don't mean technical mastery, but a certain sureness of step and consistency of quality :)), I find it much more moving. > Barret's "The Madcap Laughs" belongs here too, but I feel that much of > its power comes from our own sense of paralysis, helplessness - watching > (or hearing) another's decent into a less sane environment, sending back > postcards that get progressively more difficult to understand. . . . So I > would place Barret in a very different area than these artists. I like that "sending back postcards" metaphor. That also really describes pretty well how I feel about Barrett in general. I wouldn't class it with the genre talked about earlier. I'm fumbling about in the dark here, and I don't know how to say this, but something is missing and I'm not sure what. Perhaps a certain quality of being conscious that the state one is in is a passing one? > And then there is the beauty of perfection - a very different experience. > This is the joy we feel in the comprehension of the numinous, the > supra-human, that glimpse out of Plato's Cave and into the perfected > world of Ideals. Sweet! :) > This beauty comes from harmony, and works to elevate the > spirit, rather than map out the heart; it fills the soul rather than > tests the limits of its prison. I would put Beethoven's Ninth here. . . . > much of Michelangelo's work, and hell, even some Beatles tunes - Some of > them are emotionally meaningless, and yet strangely elevating through a > divined sense of perfection and harmony. This pretty much illuminates the difference. What is really interesting to me is that this kind of beauty can be achieved with or without emotional depth being present. I've always thought "You Won't See Me" was one of the most purely beautiful songs in the early Beatle's catalog- but there's nothing really there emotionally, is there? Also interesting that you should mention Beethoven's Ninth in this context, because he was an artist who could play both ends of this spectrum. Witness the later String Quartets. > Of course, the Beatles have charted both courses, in their own cute way > of doing these so naturally it seemed like trivial fun. I mean, where > does "Day in the Life" stand? (Or is that the essence of the > Lennon/Macartney debate?) Well, the classic breakdown is that Lennon is one and McCartney the other, but I don't think it's all that simple. Lennon could write pop gems that were nothing but, ("I Should Have Known Better" comes to mind, since I have it on right now :)) and McCartney could be very fumblingly human ("Maybe I'm Amazed"). I think the fact that they were both switch-hitters is one of the reasons their songwriting collaboration worked. > finely crafted, almost perfected pop songs. (And hey - I am not comparing > them to Beethoven here. But each chosen format can strive towards beauty > and perfection, and I feel that RH and the Egyptians often near that > goal! The Beatles, I feel, achieved it.) You don't need to be so careful. We all know what you mean :). > But many of his songs (esp. Eye > type stuff) are closer to that "flawed" human beauty, and in those Robyn > usually hits dead square on. Genius level. Amen, brother! > So the Eye vs. PI debate, in my opinion, boils down to which type of > "beauty" one would rather turn to. As for myself, I love them both, and > listen to them at widely different times and in very different moods. Actually I love them both too. But I think maybe I love the "flawed" beauty somewhat more :). Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:40:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Truman Peyote Subject: Re: Beatles, Bawb On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Eb wrote: > Yikes, I gotta figure out how to get off the digest format. :( Maybe unsub and resub onto the regular list? > Garsh! Well, I have no doubt that this is the first AND last time I'll ever > hear someone say that Harrison has the best post-Beatles solo career.... It's certainly the first time I've ever heard it, but I dunno, it may not be the last. George seems to be undergoing something of a reappreciation/resurgence in certain circles. Blame Kula Shaker :). > And I think the Beatles explosion in 1963/1964 was due to a lot more > factors than Ringo's arrival. Sheesh. NO! But he was so much cuter than Pete Best :) :) :). Personally I wonder what would have happened if they had stuck with the stomping. > I agree totally with that. In fact, I like Plastic Ono Band better than > almost all the Beatles records...and the Beatles are my all-time favorite > group. I don't know if I'd go -that- far. But "Plastic Ono Band" is pretty damn amazing. And I think Glen had a point- if you look at what comes afterwards, there is no comparison at all. I had forgotten about "Walls and Bridges". It's a flawed album, but "Steel and Glass" always kills me. I mean really, I don't think fluffola like "Gone Troppo" (which ironically enough contains a John tribute :)) should even be mentioned in the same breath. Love on ya, Susan who may even be nearing her -own- posting limit. so stop writing interesting posts already! ------------------------------ From: Terrence M Marks Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 20:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Beatles, Bawb > Garsh! Well, I have no doubt that this is the first AND last time I'll ever > hear someone say that Harrison has the best post-Beatles solo career.... Naw...I bet someone else will say it sometime... > > And I think the Beatles explosion in 1963/1964 was due to a lot more > factors than Ringo's arrival. Sheesh. Well, yeah...maybe. But maybe it's more than just a coincidence. :) > >I say that it ain't a song unless it has a string section. > > GOD, I hope you're kidding. Otherwise, you've just dropped straight into my > "Take All Opinions with a Grain of Salt" file. Well, there are *some* songs that don't have string sections. (Mainly because the artist couldn't think of a good violin line/cound't afford session men) > >Bob Dylan isn't a bad musician. His songs work in that > >setting. But compared to, say, Yes, his songs look kinda 3-chordy and > >simplistic. That's what I'm saying. > > So don't compare Bob Dylan to Yes, then. Why not? > I don't agree. Wilson's brilliance has been very steady, in my estimation. > It's just that his output has been so sporadic. When the stuff comes out, I > dig it. I think his first solo album (1988) is tremendous -- the only > things that hurt it are a few lousy lyrics and too many stale synthesizers. > On a melodic level, it's SPECTACULAR. On another note, I can't even sell Orange Crate Art back to any used store... Terry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 18:25:16 -0700 From: Nick Winkworth CC: Truman Peyote , "Reynolds, Russ" Subject: Picking teams On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, the prolific Susan corrected: > On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Nick Winkworth wrote: > > When Susan and Russ wear out their copies of Eye, they can trade > > their pristine copies of PI for the rarely played Eye's which Mark > > Ponder and I have. > > I didn't know Russ was on the "Eye" team. It seems he didn't either :). Oops! Sorry Russ - I guess I saw those disparaging comments about my treasured PI and automagically lumped you in with ...."them". =:-o By the way teammates, do we change ends at half-time? > Anyway, if you've worn out PI you can have mine. It's a cassette > though.I think I've listened to it probably 3 or 4 times total. Funny. I'd say the same about Eye (but mine's a CD) *** BTW given that there is no actual physical contact, how many plays does it take to wear out a CD anyway? Comments, Mr. Ponder? Let's see. Portland on June 6. San Francisco on.... say... the 13th??? [I feel like I'm in that Mervyn's ad where the woman stands outside the store before the sale saying "open, open, open...."] ~N (sorry, still no .sig) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:08:58 +1200 (NZST) From: james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan) Subject: Re: Black sea fleet, Curlandia >On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, James Dignan wrote: > >> >According to the 1995-96 *Jane's Fighting Ships* > > James, you are doing it *again*. > Though my first thought was that we were about to have another >Raymond Hitchcock thread. > > Tracy "I know there's some toast in his books somewhere - the >problem is you have to read them to find it" Copeland oops! I've changed the name of my Fegmaniax nickname from fegs to RobynH, so this shouldn't happen any more... James "three horizontal stripes, yellow, red, green, with two pieces of toast on the red stripe" Dignan James Dignan___________________________________ You talk to me Deptmt of Psychology, Otago University As if from a distance ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk Street And I reply. . . . . . . . . . Dunedin, New Zealand with impressions chosen from another time steam megaphone (03) 455-7807 (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ From: "The Midnight Fish" Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:36:10 -0800 Subject: Re: Unrelated thoughts/Nirvana plagerism/Kinky things So sayeth HAMISH_SIMPSON@HP-Sonoma-om1.om.hp.com : > Fashion is the Bobby Ewing shower scene of > life! (Wow, I thing I might use that one again.) I already have (see my .sig). Liebe auf euch, --g "Fashion is the Bobby Ewing shower scene of life." --Hamish (Of The Parentheses) Simpson ********************** Glen E. Uber glen@metro.net http://metro.net/glen/ ********************** ------------------------------ From: Terrence M Marks Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:54:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Unrelated thoughts/Nirvana plagerism/Kinky things Who is Bobby Ewing? (Isn't he that basketball player?) Terrence Marks Second Student in the Tendo Kasumi School of Philosophy Remember-Jesus is your friend. normal@grove.ufl.edu On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, The Midnight Fish wrote: > So sayeth HAMISH_SIMPSON@HP-Sonoma-om1.om.hp.com > : > > > Fashion is the Bobby Ewing shower scene of > > life! (Wow, I thing I might use that one again.) > > I already have (see my .sig). > > Liebe auf euch, > --g > > "Fashion is the Bobby Ewing shower scene of life." > --Hamish (Of The Parentheses) Simpson > > ********************** > Glen E. Uber > glen@metro.net > http://metro.net/glen/ > ********************** > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:26:20 +0200 (METDST) From: James Isaacs Subject: Re: Apples, Oranges, and Oily Rags... On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 Hedblade@aol.com wrote: > > > Favourite Beatle: > > John (hands down) Paul (from Revolver on, who dominates musically? Of course, dominate is a very big word...) > > Brian Wilson or Bob Dylan: I would never compare these two. They are apples and penguins. Is this in questioning who is the bigger Robyn influence, or type of production preferred by Robyn? I think olī Bob wins hands down. > XTC- Brian Wilson > Robyn - Dylan I ask the same question again, because there is no BB in XTCīs music (that I hear) until 1986, and that makes only 3 albums. Dukes donīt count. So I would go with your argument. > But picking between them, if based on my personal favorites, is asking me to > pick between Robyn and XTC. Not only is it apples and oranges, it is a > choice I'm not prepared to make. I like both of my parents equally. Same here. But, we mustnīt forget Paul, Ray, and Don in the recipe. I would much rather argue about the Captain as opposed to Brian. There is a man who lost it, but never lost it. > Jay > P.S. After all of these years, George Harrison proved just how incredibly > cool he is in the video Anthology (tm). > George: "We got backstage to see Maharishi and I said to him: 'Got any > mantras?'" True, but Paul had that cool line about the White album. James ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 11:09:27 -0500 From: "Daniel J. Troy" Subject: The great debate Name: Dan Troy Eye or Respect: Eye, in a landslide Favourite Beatle: Lennon - another landslide Brian Wilson or Bob Dylan: Dylan by a nose Count me in the group that finds the A&M Egyptian years a disappointment. I'd rank PI, GoF, and Respect near the bottom of his career output, along with the GD stuff. There were many great songs, of course, but rarely of the same caliber of songs that are to be found on IODOT, EYE, Underwater Moonlight, BSDR, and Fegmania (the best Egyptians album), IMHO. Plus methinks many of the best songs from the A&M albums sound even better when played alone on guitar: esp. Madonna, Oceanside, Lysander, and the Yip Song. Regarding the Beatles. As measured by solo output, I might have to put Ringo first. He was the least annoying and pretentious of the bunch. Lennon had some real high notes, but often wrote songs that were tuneless or uninterestingly confessional. Paul is, of course, melodically gifted but almost 100% content free in his writing. Who wants to listen to Red Rose Speedway? (I will confess a weakness for Back to the Egg, though). As for George, I hold him responsible for the growth of New Age thinking - a crime punishable by death (with a lousy reincarnation). But who cares about the solo stuff? Lennon's stuff was so brilliant that I can forgive him Double Happiness. He invented and perfected acidy pop (She Said, Tomorrow Never Knows, Happiness is a Warm Gun, etc). His singing is superb - his voice has a great tone and he has more dexterity than the other Beatles (who were also fine singers). This music had an obvious influence on the man to whom this list is devoted and for that, Lennon earns my sincere gratitude. This post is already too long, so I won't comment on Dylan & Wilson, except to say, at their best (and boy do they have worsts) that I think they're both great. Thanks, Dan PS I think Ray Davies is boss, too. ------------------------------ From: "The Midnight Fish" Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 11:45:48 -0800 Subject: George vs. John CC: Da Reverend Cliffy I said: > I don't know. _Plastic Ono Band_ and _All Thing Must Pass_ are > pretty damn close in terms of emotional outpouring, musicality and > brilliant songwriting. _Plastic OnO Band_ is John at his tortured > best while "ATMP" is George's statement that he could write songs, > too. The difference is, Lennon went on to make _Imagine_ and _Walls > And Bridges_ and _Double Fantasy_, while Harrison made _Dark Horse_, > Somewhere In England_ and other albums that are so bland, I can't > even remember their titles right now *EMBARASSED GRIN* > > Essentially, George shot his creative wad on _All Things Must Pass_ > and wasn't able to come close to it with anything else he ever > recorded (Wilburys aside). I listened to both albums all the way through yesterday and was suprised to hear how dated ATMP sounds. Phil Spector's Wall Of Sound just doesn't hold up well after 26 + years. "Isn't It A Pity" used to be my favourite song from that album, but now, I find it's among the songs that I like least. I found that I enjoy the upbeat things ("What Is Life?", "Wah-Wah", etc.) much more than I used to. As a matter of fact, the songs I like now are the ones I didn't like 5 or 6 years ago. The slow stuff is a bit droney and goes on too long. It could be the over-production, though. Nearly all the songs on the album are beautiful -- great lyrics, heartfelt renderings, quality musicianship. _Plastic Ono Band_ on the other hand, has held up VERY well. As a matter of fact, it could be released today. The production is much more sparce, the vocals are nearly perfect, and the angst-ridden lyrics are just what the kids are digging today. Ironically, both albums were produced by Phil Spector. Slipping it to ya, --g "Fashion is the Bobby Ewing shower scene of life." --Hamish (Of The Parentheses) Simpson ********************** Glen E. Uber glen@metro.net http://metro.net/glen/ ********************** ------------------------------ From: RIELWJ@sbu.edu Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 14:55:21 EDT Subject: Nudity, Strong language, and Adult RH Content Oh, how I love a good scrap! I, and sure you're all dying to know, would place EYE above PI (2nd, after GOF which I persist in believing is the best example of what he does: he doesn't reign in the "weirdness" yet captures it in an array of excellent, varying songs. And his cover painting RULES!!), but they are two completely different animals. PI is a great pop record. I don't mind that it's "straight-forward." Don't think it was a sell- out or anything, or a bland distillation of his music. I like that he stripped away some of the other elemnts of his to get at things in a more face to face manner (rather than gill to gill). And i think it sounds wonderful. EYE is the surpirse of his career, to me. It sneaked up on me and nestled against my spine and has never left. For such a sparse album, it constantly surprises me. It has some of the best sing-along songs he's written, and I like every track. The most alluring thing to me is that he has created an entire vision, a universe that is wholly his own, populated it, and expressed it. Very few artists have the ability to do that and he's done it for 20 plus years. EYE is a beautiful microcosm of his vision. I think the "novelty" songs fit in just fine with the others. Every world has it's silliness. Even though I know nothing about how to play a guitar, the album also seems to afirm his status as an unrecognized guitar god. More knoeledgeable folks out there may feel free to debunk me or support, but I'm curious; who does his playing rate? On the subject of lines, my all-time favorite has to from "The Executioner." "I'm doing this for free, just like Live Aid." It seems to me to be the cleverest, most sincere expression of pissed-off cynicism-- and there is a lot of that trhroughout his music--he's written. Leave it to Robyn to sum up the '80's better than anyone. Concur with other's that "The President" is about Reagan. The last verse about "standing in a cemetary...." seems to concur with RR visit to Bitburg. Robyn and Joey Ramone. Kindred souls. Agree that respect has some forgettable moments ("Moon Inside", the tacked-on "Wafflehead"), but I think it's an enduring record, and certainly one of his more creative musically. I wish i could produce something like "Railway Shoes" while sitting in my kitchen. Obligatory recommendation: the new Ben Folds Five cd is rather charming. Have cooled some on the new Matthew Sweet cd. the second half of it seems remarkably lazy. Riel, who paid cash money to go and see the giant snake movie and rather enjoyed it, too. ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Truth and Beauty and other quarks Date: Thu, 17 Apr 97 15:51:15 -0000 From: The Great Quail Aidan wrote: >Maybe you and I have a different definition of perfection, but I've heard >its impossible to do better than it. I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clearly understood. I was not implying at all that there was something "better than perfection" nor did I try to define perfect. I reread what I wrote, and I still don't see it - if you wouldn't mind elaborating, I'd be happy to clarify. What I tried to do - and perhaps I failed - was to explain what I percieve as two different apprehensions of "beautiful;" one which involved the mutual understanding of a flawed soul, and another which derives its power from a contemplation of the numinous. And that dichotomy is simple, and certainly open up for debate - but I find it useful. >Eye is my favorite RH album, and I would argue that some songs on it _are_ >perfect (these being: Chinese Water Python (OK, so its not a song), >Aquarium and Glass Hotel) and these are the ones I listen to the album for. Hmmm . . . Since "perfection" is such a subjective idea, I don't suppose I could really argue here. I suppose that "perfection" as a signifier must be established by some methods, and our culture tends to use critical appeal over time. Aw, man, all our systems are flawed . . . but I do think that there are some standards and values. >Is something perfect because it is an ideal? Plato would think so. (Of course, I also violently disagree with just about everything else Plato says. . . ) >Maybe the problem is not two >different kinds of beauty but rather a shift in focus from a thing to a >thing in the context of everything around it. I think that may just be another way of stating what I was trying to say. I just placed a different semantic value on the word "beauty." But regardless, that was well said. Thank you. >It sounds like you're confusing mastery of a craft with perfection. No, I don't think so. They are not the same, but rather one is a subset of the other. Mastery of a craft is a striving towards perfection - the "ideal" use of that "craft." Of course, this leads us to a whole yummy host of philosophical debates. Is something even *valuable* just because it is perfect? >Obligatory posting more than usual, hey my name isn't Susan line: >Wow, maybe I've posted more than Susan today! I better lurk overtime. I'm not sure it is even possible to post more than Susan. I'm pretty sure that their is some sort of relativistic quantum effect that goes into play when you try to break the Susan Barrier that prevents you from doing so. But I applaud you for trying, anyway! The Quail ---------------------------------+-------------------------------- The Great Quail, K.S.C. | TheQuail@cthulhu.microserve.com | "Keeper of the Libyrinth" | Sarnath - The Quailspace Web Page: riverrun Discordian Society | http://www.microserve.net/~thequail 73 De Chirico Street | Arkham, Orbis Tertius 2112-42 | ** What is FEGMANIA? ** "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents." -- H.P. Lovecraft ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 13:12:22 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: George vs. John Glen said: >I listened to both albums all the way through yesterday and was >suprised to hear how dated ATMP sounds. Phil Spector's Wall Of Sound >just doesn't hold up well after 26 + years. As Paul Buchman would say, "This is what I'm saying." :) As for Respect vs. Eye, count me among the tiny numbers who like BOTH albums a lot. Respect is my favorite A&M album, and Eye is of course divine. I would give the edge to Eye, however. I'm not too keen on Perspex Island or Queen Elvis, though I do give myself a therapeutic weep every now and then by playing "She Doesn't Exist" (hi Darlene). Eb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 16:10:23 -0500 From: "Daniel J. Troy" Subject: Re: The great debate -Reply >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dan said: >But who cares about the solo stuff? Lennon's stuff was so brilliant that >I can forgive him Double Happiness. Eb asks: *Huh? What is Double Happiness? Dan replies: D'oh! I meant Double Fantasy. Ever since I heard a record by the band Sister Double Happiness, I've always mucked up the name of the Lennon/Ono product in question. I really need to post less often. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 16:40:33 -0400 From: wpb9826@is2.nyu.edu (Pete Bilderback) Subject: fanzines Those of you interested in purchasing Pop Culture Press #40 (w/ CD w/ "Caroline Says"), or The Bob #54 (w/ flexi w/ "Alright Yeah" in German), they can be ordered from See Hear (a store specializing in fanzines) in NYC. Their mail order # is (212) 982-6968. Please note, I have nothing to do with See Hear whatsoever (other than shopping there occasionally). That said, they seem like a pretty reputable place, and they've been around for ages. Both interviews are pretty good--nothing earth-shattering, although the PCP intro to the interview has a few inaccuracies, unless I know considerably less about Robyn than I thought I did (for instance was _Eye_ really a "recording of the [1990 "unplugged"] tour"?) Pete ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 13:20:12 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Sweet Riel wrote: >Have cooled some on the new Matthew Sweet cd. the second >half of it seems remarkably lazy. For me, Blue Sky on Mars will almost assuredly be the most disappointing record of the year. I ranked all three of Sweet's other Zoo albums in my year-end top 10's, and yet I've ALREADY heard about 20 records I like better than BSOM this year. Maybe it's because of Zoo/Volcano's financial problems, which prevented Sweet from hiring a bunch of superstar guest musicians like on past records (Robert Quine, Richard Lloyd, Greg Leisz, Jody Stephens, Nicky Hopkins, Pete Thomas, Ivan Julian, Mick Fleetwood, etc.) and held him down to a mere 36 minutes of poorly produced music. Or maybe his well just ran dry. Regardless, all the individuality which distinguished Sweet from all the other retro power-poppers completely vanishes with this album. Sounds like he wrote the lyrics in one afternoon while watching sitcom reruns. It'll be a lonnng time before I listen to that disc again. Eb ------------------------------ From: TchdnJesus@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 18:35:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Unrelated thoughts/Nirvana plagerism/Kinky things normal@grove.ufl.edu (Terrence M Marks) writes: > Who is Bobby Ewing? > (Isn't he that basketball player?) that's Patrick Ewing. bobby was a character on Dallas who was played by patrick duffy, who was killed, then decided he wanted to come back, so his first scene back was him taking a shower and he wife or something saying she'd had this strange dream where he'd been killed and then the entire previous season happened..... ------------------------------ From: TchdnJesus@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 18:43:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Unrelated thoughts/Nirvana plagerism/Kinky things normal@grove.ufl.edu (Terrence M Marks) writes: > Who is Bobby Ewing? > (Isn't he that basketball player?) that's Patrick Ewing. bobby was a character on Dallas who was played by patrick duffy, who was killed, then decided he wanted to come back, so his first scene back was him taking a shower and he wife or something saying she'd had this strange dream where he'd been killed and then the entire previous season happened..... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 14:50:55 -0900 From: BC-Radio@corecom.net (Model Citizen) Subject: Re: Unrelated thoughts/Nirvana plagerism/Kinky things >that's Patrick Ewing. bobby was a character on Dallas who was played by >patrick duffy, who was killed, then decided he wanted to come back, so his >first scene back was him taking a shower and he wife or something saying >she'd had this strange dream where he'd been killed and then the entire >previous season happened..... Actually, Bobby was in the shower when Pam woke up, and she walked into the shower room, and Bobby turned around and said, "Good morning." Viewers then agonized for the entire summer on whether or not this was an imposter Bobby or the real thing. Brett __________________________________________________ 33 days until the Laserdisc/VHS release of "Star Trek: First Contact"! Reserve your copy today! Have you ever dreamed of owning your own low-power FM radio station? I have one to sell you. E-mail me privately for more information! ------------------------------ From: HAMISH_SIMPSON@HP-Sonoma-om1.om.hp.com Date: Thu, 17 Apr 97 09:31:35 -0700 Subject: Damned Item Subject: cc:Mail Text Wow! Two unrelated mails from two unrelated threads come up with Damned songs from "Strawberries".. BTW "Bad Time For Bonzo" is a pun on the Reagan movie "Bedtime For Bonzo". () - No clever quotes today ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The End of this Fegmaniax Digest. *sob* .