From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org To: fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org Reply-To: fegmaniax@ecto.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org Subject: Feg Digest V5 #73 Fegmaniax Digest Volume 5 Number 73 Wednesday April 16 1997 To post, send mail to fegmaniax@ecto.org To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@ecto.org with the words "unsubscribe fegmaniax-digest" in the message body. Send comments, etc. to the listowner at owner-fegmaniax@ecto.org FegMANIAX! Web Page: http://remus.rutgers.edu/~woj/fegmaniax/index.html Archives are available at ftp://www.ecto.org/pub/lists/fegmaniax/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Today's Topics: ------- ------- Re: The President Re: A few unrelated RH topics Re: A few unrelated RH topics Re: The President headers and mailers and dylan, oh my! [Fwd: Pop Culture Press] deja news and Robyn Re: headers and mailers and dylan, oh my! Re: A few unrelated RH topics Black sea fleet, Curlandia Re: A few unrelated RH topics Re: A few unrelated RH topics Re: A few unrelated RH topics Re: rec.games.video.robyn.hitchcock Der President Re: Metallic things... The son of a few unrelated RH topics Re: A few unrelated RH topics Re: Metallic things... the Cynthia Mask/Wax Doll discussion Re: My Favourite Buildings Okay.. who do i owe? Re: A few unrelated RH topics hitchcock does dylan and hi from randi Pop Culture Press Re: hitchcock does dylan and hi from randi R & R History (0% RH) Kinky PI's vs. winky eyes size doesn't matter Re: rec.games.video.robyn.hitchcock size matters not Re: My Favourite Buildings EYE vs PI Re: size doesn't matter Production Apples, Oranges, and Oily Rags... Re: size doesn't matter Re: Apples, Oranges, and Oily Rags... portland, or concert Re: size doesn't matter Re: gnomic verse Re: A few unrelated RH topics Truth and Beauty and other quarks Bonzo (RH content less than .01%) Re: fwd: portland, or concert Re: fwd: portland, or concert Re: Truth and Beauty and other quarks last message Re: Kinky PI's vs. winky eyes Unrelated thoughts/Nirvana plagerism/Kinky things Robyn Gigs ------------------------------ From: Terrence M Marks Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:42:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: The President Ummm...."Ich ben ein Berliner" (appx quote) is a Kennedy quote, meaning "I am a berliner". What he meant to say was "I am from Berlin" or suchlike....a berliner is a kind of German pastry... (no Reagan content...sorry) Terrence Marks Second Student in the Tendo Kasumi School of Philosophy Remember-Jesus is your friend. normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ From: Terrence M Marks Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:52:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: A few unrelated RH topics > very marked preferences for one style or the other. I've even heard some > voice the blasphemous opinion that "Eye" would have been better as an > Egyptians project :). Welll...I've heard "Queen Elvis"(the song) and "Glass Hotel" as Egyptians songs. They sounded better. "Cynthia mask" was essentially "Wax Doll" without the Egyptians. I think that Wax Doll sounds better. (I've never heard the CD Bonus tracks liek College of Ice, Sweet Ghost of Light, Transparent Lovers or...the other one) No amount of work could save "Certainly Cliquot". Executioner and Linctus House, well, they aren't my favourite...the Egyptians might've made them less poignant, but more listenable. Linctus House is too rambly and long. Executioner is, well, I can't stand the way he sings the chorus...the "I" in "I'm the executioner of Love" reminds me of the failed vocals in Barrett's "If It's In You" (the one that goes "Yes, I'm thinking of this, yes I am..etc" and drags 'thinking' across 12 notes) Hmm...what songs am I leaving off...Raining Twilight Coast...It's ok, but it relies too heavily on the guitar under it. It just doesn't impress me. Same with Chinese Water Python. And "Satellite" sounds like it could already be an Egyptians song. Anything I left out? (And I like Respect and Queen Elvis more than Eye, if that matters. I think that Respect was too short, though...) Terry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:43:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Truman Peyote Subject: Re: A few unrelated RH topics On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Terrence M Marks wrote: > Welll...I've heard "Queen Elvis"(the song) and "Glass Hotel" as Egyptians > songs. They sounded better. Matter of opinion. I've heard them as Egyptians songs too. I thought they sounded overdone. "Queen Elvis", especially, seems to me to cry out for guitar and voice alone. But then I'm one of the people who vastly prefers Dylan's "Watchtower" to Hendrix's for much the same reason, and I have met very few people who agre with me about that. > "Cynthia mask" was essentially "Wax Doll" > without the Egyptians. Huh? How's this? Anyway, I think the guitar and piano combination is poignant and lovely. What else do you need? > I think that Wax Doll sounds better. Again, a matter of opinion, really, and could be debated all day. I think "Wax Doll" would sound better solo guitar, though I do really like the strings on the studio version. > (I've never heard the CD Bonus tracks liek College of Ice, Sweet Ghost of > Light, Transparent Lovers or...the other one) College of Ice is an instrumental. I have a feeling you would think it weak. "Transparent Lovers" is gorgeous and heartbreaking. Why it was left off the original pressing is one of those strange mysteries. > No amount of work could save "Certainly Cliquot". I say, what? I think it's charming. > House is too rambly and long. For you, maybe :). > Executioner is, well, I can't stand the way > he sings the chorus...the "I" in "I'm the executioner of Love" reminds me > of the failed vocals in Barrett's "If It's In You" (the one that goes > "Yes, I'm thinking of this, yes I am..etc" and drags 'thinking' across 12 > notes) But so bitter and honest and real. It reminds me of some of the more confessional tracks from my beloved "Plastic Ono Band". Fierce. > Hmm...what songs am I leaving off...Raining Twilight Coast...It's ok, but > it relies too heavily on the guitar under it. It's beauty. > Same with Chinese Water Python. This I like too. I think it works as a nice gentle interlude. > And "Satellite" sounds like it could already be an Egyptians song. WHAT? Not at all. > Anything I left out? "Agony of Pleasure", which I love and I'm sure you hate too :). Actually lots of people do, it gets almost as much bad press round here as "Wafflehead", which I also find delightful. Also the very wonderful "Clean Steve", a certified Robyn classic. > (And I like Respect and Queen Elvis more than Eye, if that matters. I > think that Respect was too short, though...) The boy is on crack, I tell ya! Seriously, though- there is something about "Eye" that really clicks with me. It is one of the most personal, honest albums I have ever heard. Like "Blood on the Tracks" it sounds like an album that the artist -had- to make, and one that has the blood of his heart running through it. To me this more than excuses the occasional missteps. In fact, the missteps are part of what make it idiosyncratically purely Robyn, and also beautiful. I forget who said this (I'm sure one of you will know), but I agree with whoever it was- real beauty -requires- imperfection, because complete perfection is boring- there's no discovery to be made and no questions to be asked about it. You could even argue that this is a matter of balance. Too much imperfection or too much perfection (or too much yin or yang, if you will) sets the thing out of whack. I think Yeats said it best, anyway, in what may possibly be my favorite-ever poem "Crazy Jane Talks With The Bishop": 'Fair and foul are near of kin, And fair needs foul', I cried. 'My friends are gone, but that's a truth Nor grave nor bed denied, Learned in bodily lowliness And in the heart's pride. 'A woman can be proud and stiff When on love intent; But Love has pitched his mansion in The place of excrement; For nothing can be sole or whole That has not been rent.' Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:05:49 -0500 From: LSDiamond Subject: Re: The President At 08:17 PM 4/15/97 -0400, you wrote: >> I seem to recall Robyn mentioning at some point that this song was >> inspired by a particular speech Reagan gave in the UK during the early, >> "heroic" phase of his presidency. In the speech, he referred to "dear >> old Europe" or something along those lines, and the comment struck Robyn >> as being very much like what one would say to an elderly relative before >> packing him or her off to an old folks' home. >> >I believe it was inspired by when Reagan gave a speech at the Berlin Wall >when he said "Where are you Donuts?" You see, what Reagan said, something >like "Ichten Eichten Berliner" does not transalate to what he thought it >did. It has something to do with donuts. In an event, it was the speech >when he asked Gorbachev to tear down the wall. > > Actually, that was JFK saying "Ich bin ein Berliner!", which translates to "I am a jelly donut".. Unless Reagan made a similar error of which I have not been made aware... :) LSDiamond ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It's not unlike escaping mother's womb. God, what a memory. - Phillipe Gaston; Ladyhawke ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 22:59:32 -0400 From: mr bean jeans Subject: headers and mailers and dylan, oh my! also sprach Aidan Cully : >Just out of curiosity, is there a reason that the reply-to header defaults >to the sender of the message rather than the list? there are two reasons: 1) it cuts down on the number of personal replies that are misdirected to the list and 2) munging reply-to: headers is bad policy. there are various times when you may want to use a reply-to: header, but if the list software alters it, their affect is negated. an example is when you might want to use a reply-to: header is if the account you send mail from is not the account you receive mail at (as is the case for me). >My mailer (elm) doesn't give me a chance to change the To: when I hit reply, elm will let you change the headers of a reply. after editing the reply, one of the options is "h" for editing the headers. then press "t" to change the to: header from whomever to fegmaniax@ecto.org. also sprach Russ Reynolds : >That borderline tape sure had *me* pullin' the ol' Dylan records off the >shelf. wasn't it at the 12-bar? i ferget. anyways, that tape had me scrambling for a copy of the fabled royal albert nee manchester free trade hall concert itself. and i rather enjoyed it. my dylan exposure has been superficial, at best, so it was a bit of an eye-opener. i guess the same principal applies for the the velvet underground with me -- i've gone backwards in time musically instead of forwards, and it's been interesting hearing the roots after the branches. also sprach Tracy Aileen Copeland : > If you type in "robyn hitchcock" you do get back >alt.music.alternative and similar groups with about 60%-80% confidence >ratings. But at the top of the list, with 99% confidence, is ... > >rec.games.video.nintendo. let me guess: a zillion posts by erstwhile feg mike breen? woj ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 22:28:59 -0400 From: Timothy Reed Subject: [Fwd: Pop Culture Press] Pop Culture Press probably doesn't have a large press run, however they do have a web site at http://monsterbit.com/pcp. The site appears to include the entire issue - text and pictures - including the full RH interview at http://m2.monsterbit.com/pcp/hitchcock.html. The site is really nice, however the one thing you can't seem to do is order the magazine! Tim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 22:51:45 -0500 (CDT) From: Truman Peyote Subject: deja news and Robyn Curious about Tracy's results (was it Tracy who did the search), I went and looked around in DejaNews myself. The reason Robyn turns up so much is that there is a frequent poster to the group that quotes Robyn in his sig. In fact, with the exception of the obvious (rec.music.marketplace groups and the like) almost every group where Robyn makes an appearance it is in a sig. file. I was intrigued by the huge percentage in alt.folklore.urban and hoping for great things (maybe the story about Robyn and the newscaster whose lipstick he hijacked :)), but all I turned up was a bunch of posts by our own Phil Edwards with a Robyn quote in the sig. I think basically what the search reveals is where Robyn fans like to read and post, and that is interesting in and of itself. Love on ya, Susan who has more or less given up posting to usenet herself on account of her address having been grabbed constantly by greedy spammers, but likes to read what others have written :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:01:03 -0500 (EST) From: Tracy Aileen Copeland Subject: Re: headers and mailers and dylan, oh my! On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, mr bean jeans wrote: > also sprach Russ Reynolds : > > >That borderline tape sure had *me* pullin' the ol' Dylan records off the > >shelf. > > wasn't it at the 12-bar? i ferget. > Nah, it was at the Borderline. > > If you type in "robyn hitchcock" you do get back [...] > >rec.games.video.nintendo. > > let me guess: a zillion posts by erstwhile feg mike breen? > He's over in rec.arts.anime.misc. This is someone named David Copeland, no relation, who's got an "Alright, Yeah" quote in his .sig. And the IRS in its finite wisdom has decreed that I'm a small business proprietor and have to fill out extra forms. Bastards. Tracy "I don't make *them* fill out a form with their yearly toast consumption" Copeland ------------------------------ From: normal@grove.ufl.edu Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:09:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: A few unrelated RH topics > Matter of opinion. I've heard them as Egyptians songs too. I thought they > sounded overdone. "Queen Elvis", especially, seems to me to cry out for > guitar and voice alone. But then I'm one of the people who vastly prefers > Dylan's "Watchtower" to Hendrix's for much the same reason, and I have met > very few people who agre with me about that. I dunno...it sounds...more like a song. I like Dylan's Watchtower better than Hendrix's also. > > > "Cynthia mask" was essentially "Wax Doll" > > without the Egyptians. > > Huh? How's this? Anyway, I think the guitar and piano combination is > poignant and lovely. What else do you need? Same chords, same beat. Cynthia Mask is 1 semitone lower... > > I think that Wax Doll sounds better. > > Again, a matter of opinion, really, and could be debated all day. I think > "Wax Doll" would sound better solo guitar, though I do really like the > strings on the studio version. I think that the bass guitar helps Wax Doll also. Also, the lyrics to Wax Doll are better than Cynthia Mask...Wax Doll has those lovely "freeze/does" half-rhymes. Cynthia Mask just kinda rambles on and on ntil he finally says what he means.. > > No amount of work could save "Certainly Cliquot". > > I say, what? I think it's charming. It's atonal. It's a novelty, like Wafflehead or Kung-fu Fighting...I think that a lot of stuff off of Crablings or Pumpkins would've been better, like Love is What, Consider Me Gone, or Garden of Light > > > House is too rambly and long. > > For you, maybe :). Yeah. Chorus is good, but the verse just goes on and on...no rhythm to it.. > > Executioner is, well, I can't stand the way > > he sings the chorus...the "I" in "I'm the executioner of Love" reminds me > > of the failed vocals in Barrett's "If It's In You" (the one that goes > > "Yes, I'm thinking of this, yes I am..etc" and drags 'thinking' across 12 > > notes) > > But so bitter and honest and real. It reminds me of some of the more > confessional tracks from my beloved "Plastic Ono Band". Fierce. "If It's In You" is bitter and real also, but it still sounds hideous. And I don't like John Lennon, either. I think he's *way* overrated..George Harrison is my favourite Beatle, because his solo career is the best...John Lennon gets too much credit, in general, for the Beatle's work. (Note: THe Beatles didn't become gigantic until they added Ringo..) I've seen people state "John Lennon is the closest thing to a diety that we have" (but I suspect that he was just going out of his way to pick a religious argument. People tend to to that to me now that I changed my sig. No-one on this group has, though, and I'm mildly surprised..thank you all) > > Hmm...what songs am I leaving off...Raining Twilight Coast...It's ok, but > > it relies too heavily on the guitar under it. > > It's beauty. Hmm...it's not bad. I prefer my songs to be more layered. (as per Brian Wilson, High Llamas or ...hmm..does Rain Parade count as layered?) > > And "Satellite" sounds like it could already be an Egyptians song. > > WHAT? Not at all. Doesn't it already have drums, guitar and piano? Why not just have Andy and Morris play those instruments. > > > Anything I left out? > > "Agony of Pleasure", which I love and I'm sure you hate too :). Actually > lots of people do, it gets almost as much bad press round here as > "Wafflehead", which I also find delightful. Also the very wonderful "Clean > Steve", a certified Robyn classic. Oh yeah...Clean Steve. Personally, after hearing the long Eyptians versions that go on forever, the studio version doesn't cut it. It's a good song, but you can't go back. And, yep, I hate Agony of Pleasure. Uninspired, the singing didn't work, and it was a bad song... Oh..and I'd REALLY like to hear Flesh Cartoons as an Egyptians song, but I haven't yet. > > (And I like Respect and Queen Elvis more than Eye, if that matters. I > > think that Respect was too short, though...) > > The boy is on crack, I tell ya! Despite appearances/taste in music, I'm not a drug freak... > Seriously, though- there is something about "Eye" that really clicks with > me. It is one of the most personal, honest albums I have ever heard. Like > "Blood on the Tracks" it sounds like an album that the artist -had- to > make, and one that has the blood of his heart running through it. Hmm...I wonder what it would be like to have "Certainly Cliquot" burning through your soul, to not be able to look into a mirror without thinking "Yeah...'a fish named Angela'" Some of the songs are heartfelt (Executioner, Linctus House), some are beautiful (Glass Hotel, Flesh Cartoons) > whoever it was- real beauty -requires- imperfection, because complete > perfection is boring- there's no discovery to be made and no questions to > be asked about it. You could even argue that this is a matter of balance. > Too much imperfection or too much perfection (or too much yin or > yang, if you will) sets the thing out of whack. I disagree...(Look at Pet Sounds...I think that the poorly done drumming (esp. the timpani) detract from the album..) I think that there are perfectly done songs. (not as in "the best song ever", but songs that are done without errors or rough spots) Hmm...Ive got an idea... email me the following, all you people... Name: Eye or Respect: Favourite Beatle: Brian Wilson or Bob Dylan: (I'd liek to ask a question about Ray Davies, but I can't think of anything. Personally, on the Brian Wilson to Bob Dylan spectrum, Ray Davies is fairly close to Dylan. Ray's direct opposite is Donovan, I think...Respect is a Donovan-style album. Eye is a Dylan-style album. ) Terry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 16:10:13 +1200 (NZST) From: james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan) Subject: Black sea fleet, Curlandia >According to the 1995-96 *Jane's Fighting Ships*, a special ensign was >flown by ships of the Black Sea Fleet while its status was in dispute. >This ensign was white with a blue stripe across the bottom; in other >words, the Soviet ensign with the red star and the hammer-and sickle >removed. The illustration in *Jane's* shows dark blue for the stripe and >overall proportions of 2:3.< I note that not only is this design based on the former Soviet Ensign, but it is also very similar to one of the flags talked about last year as being the flag of the Crimea (horizontal white-blue-red, in ratio 5:1:1) --- Re: Scandinavian flags >>Curlandia: red over white >Unknown to me. could this be the mysterious Courland that someone recently suggested is somewhere in the Baltic republics? James James Dignan___________________________________ You talk to me Deptmt of Psychology, Otago University As if from a distance ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk Street And I reply. . . . . . . . . . Dunedin, New Zealand with impressions chosen from another time steam megaphone (03) 455-7807 (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:15:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Truman Peyote Subject: Re: A few unrelated RH topics On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 normal@grove.ufl.edu wrote: > Same chords, same beat. Cynthia Mask is 1 semitone lower... Which is not to say it's the same song :). > I think that the bass guitar helps Wax Doll also. Also, the lyrics to Wax > Doll are better than Cynthia Mask...Wax Doll has those lovely > "freeze/does" half-rhymes. Cynthia Mask just kinda rambles on and on ntil > he finally says what he means.. There is nothing in "Wax Doll" to equal the verse that begins "I'll reach your lungs/like smoke in the orchard". I have to say that "I'll wrap your hands in personal signals" is one of the most beautiful ways to describe lovers' intimacy I have ever heard. I'm not sure I want to get into writing all about what this song means to me. I believe I did write a sort of mini-essay about it a year or so ago. Read it if you want to know. I assure you the minutes will fly like hours :). > > I say, what? I think it's charming. > > It's atonal. It's a novelty, like Wafflehead or Kung-fu Fighting...I > think that a lot of stuff off of Crablings or Pumpkins would've been > better, like Love is What, Consider Me Gone, or Garden of Light There you have the split. I don't know if I'd go so far as to call it a novelty tune, but it is definitely the sort of tune that either charms or repels, and I agree it is slight. > > For you, maybe :). > > Yeah. Chorus is good, but the verse just goes on and on...no rhythm to > it.. Does it warrant more rhythm than it's got? I always liked the spoken confession feel of it. And it captures perfectly that strange feeling of displacement and dislocation that memories of past, now dead intimacy often produce, and the awkwardness of not knowing what to do when the door is slammed in your face and the flood of intimate thoughts and feelings no longer has an outlet. > > But so bitter and honest and real. It reminds me of some of the more > > confessional tracks from my beloved "Plastic Ono Band". Fierce. > > "If It's In You" is bitter and real also, but it still sounds hideous. > And I don't like John Lennon, either. When I read this I know for sure that you and I are definitely coming from different angles. More on that later. > I think he's *way* > overrated.. Impossible! >George Harrison is my favourite Beatle, because his solo career > is the best None of the solo Beatles' work even touches "Plastic Ono Band" in my opinion. Not even John's later solo work, certainly not Paul's, and not George's either. It all sounds bland by comparison. >...John Lennon gets too much credit, in general, for the > Beatle's work. I'll have to agree with you there, actually. I think the one who's undervalued is Paul, though. People tend to write him off as the bland craftsman of the group, and I think that's unfair. > (Note: THe Beatles didn't become gigantic until they added > Ringo..) The Beatles' first album actually doesn't use Ringo either. That was session drummer Andy White. Anyway, I'm not sure what Ringo has to do with it. > I've seen people state "John Lennon is the closest thing to a > diety that we have" First of all, who's the "we" being referred to? :) Second of all, this is a rather silly statement. I have a feeling John himself would have groaned to hear this. > Hmm...it's not bad. I prefer my songs to be more layered. (as per Brian > Wilson, High Llamas or ...hmm..does Rain Parade count as layered?) I prefer my songs to be more solo-guitared :). > > > And "Satellite" sounds like it could already be an Egyptians song. > > > > WHAT? Not at all. > > Doesn't it already have drums, guitar and piano? Why not just have Andy > and Morris play those instruments. Because it's ROBYN'S record. That's kind of the point. That's why it's called "Eye" (as in "I"). > And, yep, I hate Agony of Pleasure. Uninspired, the singing didn't work, > and it was a bad song... A bad song? Oh come on. I would argue that the singing works pretty well, since the intention was probably for it to sound a little off, as the song does (the way I interpret it) have a bit of humor in the mix (I mean, really, listen to the opening count-off :)). And I love the opening lines! :) > Oh..and I'd REALLY like to hear Flesh Cartoons as an Egyptians song, but > I haven't yet. Ack! > > The boy is on crack, I tell ya! > > Despite appearances/taste in music, I'm not a drug freak... That was meant as a joke :). > Hmm...I wonder what it would be like to have "Certainly Cliquot" burning > through your soul, to not be able to look into a mirror without thinking > "Yeah...'a fish named Angela'" I'm not sure about that. Ask Robyn :). But seriously, here's how I feel about "Eye", make all the fun of me you like :). >From "Ranters and Ravers", by Greil Marcus: "If you're lucky, at the right time you come across music that is not only 'great', or interesting, or 'incredible', or fun, but actually sustaining. Through some elusive but tangible process, a piece of music cuts through all defenses and makes sense of every fear and desire you bring to it....Though someone else is doing the talking, the experience is like a confession." So mock away pal! It don't faze me none :). > > Too much imperfection or too much perfection (or too much yin or > > yang, if you will) sets the thing out of whack. > > I disagree...(Look at Pet Sounds...I think that the poorly done drumming > (esp. the timpani) detract from the album..) I'm not over-familiar with "Pet Sounds" so I can't really argue about this one way or the other. But I will say that I was -not- arguing that music is always better when badly played. I was trying to get at something more esoteric than that, and probably failed. I think what I was trying to get at was something about how there is sometimes something touching and intimate about roughness. Gee, that sounded really articulate. > I think that there are perfectly done songs. (not as in "the best song > ever", but songs that are done without errors or rough spots) Yes, there are, but that's not what I was arguing about at all. I was trying to argue that imperfection is central to beauty. Which is not something I can prove of course, it's just my opinion, but it's my deeply-held and pretty much unshakeable opinion. The perfectly done songs are seldom if ever the ones I turn to for spiritual sustenance. They're not human enough. They might blow my mind away and provide an amazing aesthetic experience, but I don't relate to them in the same intimate way (I think I should now get some sort of prize for most frequent use of the word intimate in a post :)). > Hmm...Ive got an idea... > email me the following, all you people... > > Eye or Respect: Duh. > Favourite Beatle: John > Brian Wilson or Bob Dylan: Bob Somehow I bet you're not surprised :). I think you've intuitively grabbed onto the very differnce in the way you and I listen. Because when I read your comments about "Eye"- well, we're listening to the same record, but we're obviously not hearing the same thing. And I think this is sort of what I was talking about when I referred to the "Eye" vs. "PI" split and why a few of us seem to feel really passionate about one or the other. > (I'd liek to ask a question about Ray Davies, but I can't think of > anything. Personally, on the Brian Wilson to Bob Dylan spectrum, Ray > Davies is fairly close to Dylan. I would say so, although really they're apples and oranges. But since they're both wordsmiths and smart-asses, and ole Brian is not, I guess it makes sense. > Ray's direct opposite is Donovan, I > think... Now this I think is off. They're not even in the same ballpark, writing-wise (or brainpower-wise, but that's not what we're talking about, is it? :)). I'm not sure who Ray's direct opposite might be. >Respect is a Donovan-style album. Eye is a Dylan-style album. ) Eye is closer to a Lennon-style album. It reminds me very very much of Plastic Ono Band for about a jillion reasons. The closest Dylan parallel I can think of is "Blood on the Tracks", and that's primarily emotional. Musically and singing-style-wise, it's closer to Lennon. I also think "Respect", though not nearly as personal as "Eye" is certainly more so than anything of Donovan's. Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ From: normal@grove.ufl.edu Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 02:26:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: A few unrelated RH topics > > > Same chords, same beat. Cynthia Mask is 1 semitone lower... > > Which is not to say it's the same song :). Yeah. "Surfin USA" is a TOTALLY different song from "Sweet Little Sixteen".. > > > I think that the bass guitar helps Wax Doll also. Also, the lyrics to Wax > > Doll are better than Cynthia Mask...Wax Doll has those lovely > > "freeze/does" half-rhymes. Cynthia Mask just kinda rambles on and on ntil > > he finally says what he means.. > > There is nothing in "Wax Doll" to equal the verse that begins "I'll reach > your lungs/like smoke in the orchard". I have to say that "I'll wrap your > hands in personal signals" is one of the most beautiful ways to describe Oh yeah...I forgot about the good verse in Cynthia Mask. > None of the solo Beatles' work even touches "Plastic Ono Band" in my > opinion. Not even John's later solo work, certainly not Paul's, and not > George's either. It all sounds bland by comparison. Hmm..I've only heard one Plastic Ono album...(my phonograph broke..) and it was a while ago. Will refresh memory soon, prolly. I think that "Blown Away" tops "War is Over" or "Imagine".. > >...John Lennon gets too much credit, in general, for the > > Beatle's work. > > I'll have to agree with you there, actually. I think the one who's > undervalued is Paul, though. People tend to write him off as the bland > craftsman of the group, and I think that's unfair. Nod. But I hardly ever hear people mention George... > > Hmm...it's not bad. I prefer my songs to be more layered. (as per Brian > > Wilson, High Llamas or ...hmm..does Rain Parade count as layered?) > > I prefer my songs to be more solo-guitared :). Ah. I say that it ain't a song unless it has a string section. On THe High Llamas first album, most of the songs are string solos over two chords. (See "Caroline, No". Hawaii, however, is based mostly on "Cabinessence". The thing about The High Llamas is that they can take a simple theme and expand it.. > > > > And "Satellite" sounds like it could already be an Egyptians song. > > > > > > WHAT? Not at all. > > > > Doesn't it already have drums, guitar and piano? Why not just have Andy > > and Morris play those instruments. > > Because it's ROBYN'S record. That's kind of the point. That's why it's > called "Eye" (as in "I"). The parts are there. You just need someone to move the pieces of wood up and down... > > (I'd liek to ask a question about Ray Davies, but I can't think of > > anything. Personally, on the Brian Wilson to Bob Dylan spectrum, Ray > > Davies is fairly close to Dylan. > > I would say so, although really they're apples and oranges. But since > they're both wordsmiths and smart-asses, and ole Brian is not, I guess it > makes sense. Hmm...what I mean: Brian Wilson: "The cello plays an F#, while the violins go between D#m7 and Esus6" Bob Dylan: "What? You mean that there are instruments that aren't guitars?" Brian Wilson: "Well, it rhymes and it's about surfing. I'll ask Tony to make it sound catchier." Bob Dylan: see Visions of Johanna, Subterranean Homesick Blues, etc. > > Ray's direct opposite is Donovan, I > > think... > > Now this I think is off. They're not even in the same ballpark, > writing-wise (or brainpower-wise, but that's not what we're talking about, > is it? :)). I'm not sure who Ray's direct opposite might be. Boy, Donovan gets ranked on around here. His earlier, folkier stuff sounds like cut-rate Dylan. But he deserves some credit for Season of the Witch, Catch the Wind, or Atlantis. Maybe he was a bad example. (But then, I think that Sting is a pretty good songwriter. I believe that there are a lot of good songwriters thatdeserve credit, not just 5 elite ones). Donovan's songs are, lyrically, fairly simple, but production makes them good. This isn't to say that his songs are bad, but sound good because of production... Let me explain what I mean by the Wilson/Dylan opposite. (Now that I look at it, Roger Waters is probably Ray Davies' opposite..that better?) --Production-- Brian Wilson Sean O'Hagan Yes This Mortal Coil Roger Waters Rain Parade DEVO Robyn Hitchcock on Underwater Moonlight Squeeze Nirvana (the one from the 60's) Donovan Robyn Hitchcock on Respect Sting Ray Davies Syd Barrett Robyn Hitchcock on Eye Vic Chesnutt Howlin' Wolf Bob Dylan --No Production-- Feel free to argue this list/add to it. > >Respect is a Donovan-style album. Eye is a Dylan-style album. ) > > Eye is closer to a Lennon-style album. It reminds me very very much of > Plastic Ono Band for about a jillion reasons. The closest Dylan parallel I > can think of is "Blood on the Tracks", and that's primarily emotional. > Musically and singing-style-wise, it's closer to Lennon. I also think > "Respect", though not nearly as personal as "Eye" is certainly more so > than anything of Donovan's. "Catch the Wind" is as poignant as anything on Eye. (and moreso than Certainly Cliquot). It might not be filled with pain and so on, but it's still a good, heartfelt song. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 02:34:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Truman Peyote Subject: Re: A few unrelated RH topics I should really go to bed. On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 normal@grove.ufl.edu wrote: > > > Same chords, same beat. Cynthia Mask is 1 semitone lower... > > > > Which is not to say it's the same song :). > > Yeah. "Surfin USA" is a TOTALLY different song from "Sweet Little > Sixteen".. That doesn't mean it's -the same song- any more than "My Sweet Lord" is the same song as "He's So Fine" (though the courts disagreed with me on that one). Completely different lyrics + altered music = different song to me. But everyone defines this in their own way. BTW- I'm disturbed to see this particular comparison mentioned, as it is all too eerily reminiscent of the infamous Brian Wilson flame war, which is why I tried to provide a more neutral example. > Oh yeah...I forgot about the good verse in Cynthia Mask. There's more than one :). And I like "Wax Doll" too, so don't go getting sore. > Hmm..I've only heard one Plastic Ono album...(my phonograph broke..) > and it was a while ago. Will refresh memory soon, prolly. > I think that "Blown Away" tops "War is Over" or "Imagine".. 1. I meant the album called "Plastic Ono Band", not everything by the entity Plastic Ono Band :) 2. And these are not exactly fine examples of Lennon songwriting. Especially "War Is Over". A more appropriate comparison might be "Simply Having A Wonderful Christmas Time" :). > > I'll have to agree with you there, actually. I think the one who's > > undervalued is Paul, though. People tend to write him off as the bland > > craftsman of the group, and I think that's unfair. > > Nod. But I hardly ever hear people mention George... Huh. I do. I am -also- among the minority of folks who really admire George's playing (I've even knowna couple folks who were otherwise blues purists say that George's playing is the only thing they like about the Beatles! :)), so I'm not gainsaying you exactly, but I still think the main creative engine was without doubt the Lennon/McCartney partnership. > > I prefer my songs to be more solo-guitared :). > > Ah. I say that it ain't a song unless it has a string section. See, here's the difference :). I've also been known to fancy strings on occasion, though. At this time I would like to recommend to you John Cale's "Paris 1919", which is one of the few orchestrated albums I really like. I'd be interested to know what you'd think of it (recommended to all Fegs, actually). > Hmm...what I mean: > Brian Wilson: "The cello plays an F#, while the violins go between D#m7 > and Esus6" > Bob Dylan: "What? You mean that there are instruments that aren't > guitars?" Oh come on, that ain't fair to Bob. You think he could have made a living in the fairly competitive New York folk scene of the early 60s if he were a terrible musician? Or that his lyrics would have the same impact independent of their musical settings? It's true that the two have -widely- divergent emphases, but to put down Dylan's musicianship wholesale is just not right, just as saying that all Brian Wilson ever wrote lyrics about was chicks and surfing isn't right. > Boy, Donovan gets ranked on around here. I'm rather fond of Donovan, actually. But he's -not- in the same league as Ray D. > some credit for Season of the Witch, Catch the Wind, or Atlantis. I like all these a lot. Add "Mellow Yellow", "Barabajagal", and "Sunshine Superman", all three of which I love. But basically when you've named these 6, you've named his strongest material. And none of his whole albums can stand with what the Kinks were doing in '67-'72. > good songwriter. I believe that there are a lot of good songwriters > thatdeserve credit, not just 5 elite ones). I can't speak for anyone else, but if you think -I- only admire five elite songwriters, you must not have been paying any attention to my writings on the list over these past couple years :). > Donovan's songs are, > lyrically, fairly simple, but production makes them good. This isn't to > say that his songs are bad, but sound good because of production... I wouldn't say that either. They're solid songs. There just aren't more than a handful of them. > Let me explain what I mean by the Wilson/Dylan opposite. > (Now that I look at it, Roger Waters is probably Ray Davies' > opposite..that better?) Yes, I think so. Though I ain't exactly a fan of his either :). > --Production-- > Brian Wilson > Sean O'Hagan > Yes > This Mortal Coil > Roger Waters > Rain Parade > DEVO > Robyn Hitchcock on Underwater Moonlight I think Perspex Island is possibly a better choice than UM. Whatch'all think? add- John Cale "Paris 1919" Roxy Music "Avalon" or any Bryan Ferry solo album also possibly some of Morrissey's solo work (I'm thinking specifically of a few songs from "Viva Hate') > Squeeze > Nirvana (the one from the 60's) > Donovan > Robyn Hitchcock on Respect > Sting add- Nick Lowe and anything he produced Tom Waits (circa "Rain Dogs") the Jam (started out rougher and became progressively more polished as the music changed) Chris Isaak (though arguably he could be closer to the higher end of the spectrum) > Ray Davies Very low production early on. 'Something Else" still sounds fairly rough-and-ready. I don't think the production started sounding really polished until sometime in the 70s. > Syd Barrett > Robyn Hitchcock on Eye > Vic Chesnutt > Howlin' Wolf > Bob Dylan add- Jack Logan > --No Production-- > "Catch the Wind" is as poignant as anything on Eye. (and moreso than > Certainly Cliquot). My goodness! Stop obsessing on this one song! :) :) I've always thought maybe it was just there (and I thought the same might also be true of "Beautiful Girl") to break the tension, since most of what's on that album is pretty rough and painful. Taken on its own its certainly not an indicator of the rest of the album's content. > It might not be filled with pain and so on, but it's > still a good, heartfelt song. No one's arguing that Donovan lacks sincerity :). Love on ya, Susan it's definitely time for bed ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:46:49 -0700 From: meketone@well.com (Ethyl Ketone) Subject: Re: rec.games.video.robyn.hitchcock At 6:55 PM 4/15/97, Truman Peyote uttered: >Love on ya, >Susan >who is only a beginner programmer, otherwise she might take this on as a >project :) Hmmm...just so happens that this IS a good idea and I happen to be pretty involved in the games industry....Drop me a note - it's an interesting premise...I mean really... - Carrie "been in games so long it looks like up to me" Galbraith -------------------------------------------- Carrie Galbraith meketone@well.com "After God, Shakespeare created most." - Dumas ------------------------------ From: "The Midnight Fish" Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:33:45 -0800 Subject: Der President CC: fegmaniax@ecto.org So sayeth Daniel Saunders : > He said, "Ich bin ein Berliner", which he meant to mean, "I am a > citizen of Berlin" (metaphorically). In fact, Berliners never refer > to themselves as "Berliners", but instead use that term for a type > of pastry common to the area. So literally it translates to "I am a > jelly donut". They probably knew what he meant in any case. Actually, if Kennedy had just left out the "ein", he would have been ok. Germans will say "Ich bin Berliner (or 'Berlinerin' for females) without the article preceding it. The ein (or eine) is implied. However, it is much more common to say, "Ich komme aus Berlin" ("I come from Berlin") or "Ich wohne in Berlin" ("I live in Berlin") anyway, so this whole discussion is moot... Liebe auf euch, --g "In nature, there are neither rewards nor punishments - there are Consequences." --R. G. Ingersoll, 1833 - 1899 ************************* Glen E. Uber glen@metro.net http://metro.net/glen/ ************************* ------------------------------ From: "The Midnight Fish" Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:33:46 -0800 Subject: Re: Metallic things... So sayeth Hedblade@aol.com : > > > << > (Just an aside, but does > > the intro into "America" sound like Metalillca's "Enter Sandman" > to > anyone besides me?) > > I always thought it sounded like "Come As You Are" by Nirvana.>> I listened to _Groovy Decoy_ today (yesterday???) and made the observation that the bass part to "Midnight Fish" sounds like a cross between "Wot" by Captain Sensible and "Bust A Move" by Young M.C. Does anyone else hear this as well? Or am I alone again, naturally? Slipping it to ya, --g "In nature, there are neither rewards nor punishments - there are Consequences." --R. G. Ingersoll, 1833 - 1899 ************************* Glen E. Uber glen@metro.net http://metro.net/glen/ ************************* ------------------------------ From: "The Midnight Fish" Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:33:46 -0800 Subject: The son of a few unrelated RH topics So sayeth Truman Peyote : > >George Harrison is my favourite Beatle, because his solo career > > is the best > > None of the solo Beatles' work even touches "Plastic Ono Band" in my > opinion. Not even John's later solo work, certainly not Paul's, and > not George's either. It all sounds bland by comparison. I don't know. _Plastic Ono Band_ and _All Thing Must Pass_ are pretty damn close in terms of emotional outpouring, musicality and brilliant songwriting. _Plastic OnO Band_ is John at his tortured best while "ATMP" is George's statement that he could write songs, too. The difference is, Lennon went on to make _Imagine_ and _Walls And Bridges_ and _Double Fantasy_, while Harrison made _Dark Horse_, Somewhere In England_ and other albums that are so bland, I can't even remember their titles right now *EMBARASSED GRIN* Essentially, George shot his creative wad on _All Things Must Pass_ and wasn't able to come close to it with anything else he ever recorded (Wilburys aside). > The Beatles' first album actually doesn't use Ringo either. That was > session drummer Andy White. Anyway, I'm not sure what Ringo has to > do with it. Actually, Andy White was only on the single version of "Love Me Do". Ringo can be heard on that one playing a groovy tambourine part (a part which later inspired such greats as Davy Jones, Shirley Jones and Stevie Nicks). Nearing my posting quota, --g "In nature, there are neither rewards nor punishments - there are Consequences." --R. G. Ingersoll, 1833 - 1899 ************************* Glen E. Uber glen@metro.net http://metro.net/glen/ ************************* ------------------------------ From: "The Midnight Fish" Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:33:46 -0800 Subject: Re: A few unrelated RH topics CC: fegmaniax@ecto.org So sayeth normal@grove.ufl.edu : > I dunno...it sounds...more like a song. I like Dylan's Watchtower > better than Hendrix's also. I think I could go either way depending on my mood. > Same chords, same beat. Cynthia Mask is 1 semitone lower... I don't agree on this. "Wax Doll" is F to Gm in the verses and G Bb F on the choruses. "Cynthia Mask" is An RH E Major (that open E chord that Robyn plays at the 7th fret) to an RH Emaj2 in the verses. In the chorus, it's a B to E to A. Two utterly distinct and seperate musical offerings. I will agree that the pacing of the two songs are the same and the melodies occasionally sound alike. Would I make a great politician, or what??? ;) > I think that the bass guitar helps Wax Doll also. And the crying strings on the "We're gonna take the suburbs to the stars" line. That kills me everytime. > Doesn't it already have drums, It sounds more like a tympani mallet on a cardboard box. A little like that funky beat that underpins "Give Peace A Chance". > Name: Glen Edward Uber (no umlauts, please :)) > Eye or Respect: Aye ;) > Favourite Beatle: Stu. Somtimes Dennis. > Brian Wilson or Bob Dylan: The one whose kids are enjoying a greater degree of success at this moment. Gute Nacht, --g "In nature, there are neither rewards nor punishments - there are Consequences." --R. G. Ingersoll, 1833 - 1899 ************************* Glen E. Uber glen@metro.net http://metro.net/glen/ ************************* ------------------------------ From: "The Midnight Fish" Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:33:45 -0800 Subject: Re: Metallic things... CC: fegmaniax@ecto.org So sayeth Terrence M Marks : > Well, I heard "enter sandman" onmtv today... > yeah, it does sound similar. I think that it's the same chords as > the intro to America (G to F), only at twice the tempo...(appx) Actually, "America" F to G, while "Enter Sandman" is played around an E minor chord, with an occasional #7. In the bridge before the chorus, it modulates to an F# minor. In the chorus, the chords are F# minor, B7 and E major. I know most of you really care about this ;) Off to never-never land... --g "In nature, there are neither rewards nor punishments - there are Consequences." --R. G. Ingersoll, 1833 - 1899 ************************* Glen E. Uber glen@metro.net http://metro.net/glen/ ************************* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:21:06 -0400 From: Dolph Chaney Subject: the Cynthia Mask/Wax Doll discussion I just couldn't let this discussion go by without either congratulating or berating Susan and Terry for carrying on the entire thing without once mentioning my blending of the two on GLASS FLESH. ;-) Dolph ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:14:30 +0100 (BST) From: Gary Sedgwick Subject: Re: My Favourite Buildings On Tue, 15 Apr 97, Tom Clark wrote: >Since the song uses buildings as a metaphor for our bodies, I suppose he >means they're like a disease in the sense that we're stuck with what we >have and have to make the best of it. This song always makes me think of the houses that were due to be knocked down to widen the Westway in London - the windows and doors were all bricked up and painted brown. Some of them were knocked down, but then the government ran out of money for the widening scheme, so I believe that they're being sold off to landlords now. Anyway, couldn't the 'disease' be the spread of buildings into countryside, and the creation of more buildings in already overcrowded towns? "You could wind up in a zoo" - caged in by buildings? Just a thought. Gaz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:12:34 -0500 From: LSDiamond Subject: Okay.. who do i owe? All right.. i've nearly got it straightened out now.. i know i still owe Daniel Saunders a Y & O, but is there ANYONE else i need to send something to??? Things are really hectic right now, and i'm graduating in a few weeks, so if you guys could help me out here, i'd really appreciate it! :) thanks, LSDiamond ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It's not unlike escaping mother's womb. God, what a memory. - Phillipe Gaston; Ladyhawke ------------------------------ From: Terrence M Marks Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:11:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: A few unrelated RH topics > I've also been known to fancy strings on occasion, though. At this time I > would like to recommend to you John Cale's "Paris 1919", which is one of > the few orchestrated albums I really like. I'd be interested to know what > you'd think of it (recommended to all Fegs, actually). Will try to check out. I reccomend anything by the High Llamas, or the lost Smile album by The Beach Boys. > > Bob Dylan: "What? You mean that there are instruments that aren't > > guitars?" > > Oh come on, that ain't fair to Bob. You think he could have made a living > in the fairly competitive New York folk scene of the early 60s if he were > a terrible musician? Or that his lyrics would have the same impact > independent of their musical settings? It's true that the two have > -widely- divergent emphases, but to put down Dylan's musicianship > wholesale is just not right, just as saying that all Brian Wilson ever > wrote lyrics about was chicks and surfing isn't right. That's not what I mean. What I mean is that 90% of Bob Dylan's songs were written in the frame of 1 man, 1 guitar. I'm not saying that this is bad. I'm just comparing it to Brian Wilson's framework of 5 men, full band and 10 sessionists. Bob Dylan isn't a bad musician. His songs work in that setting. But compared to, say, Yes, his songs look kinda 3-chordy and simplistic. That's what I'm saying. > > > some credit for Season of the Witch, Catch the Wind, or Atlantis. > > I like all these a lot. Add "Mellow Yellow", "Barabajagal", and "Sunshine > Superman", all three of which I love. But basically when you've named > these 6, you've named his strongest material. And none of his whole albums > can stand with what the Kinks were doing in '67-'72. Yeah, but "Sunshine Superman" beats the tar out of "Soap Opera", at least. (and, to his credit, Donovan never tried to modernize his sound, unlike Ray....see Phobia or Sleepwalker.) > I can't speak for anyone else, but if you think -I- only admire five elite > songwriters, you must not have been paying any attention to my writings on > the list over these past couple years :). Well, actually, I haven't been paying attention :) > Chris Isaak (though arguably he could be closer to the higher end of > the spectrum) WEll, "Wicked Game" (the only song by him that I've heard) sounds almost 100% produced. I judge 'production' in the following manner: Can you get a guitar, sit down and play songs by the group? You can't do that with Beach Boys songs. You can wiht Dylan songs. Tired of back-and-forth email between me and Susan yet? Terry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:16:14 -0700 From: HARVEY SPIEGEL Subject: hitchcock does dylan and hi from randi hey fegs just got home after a four month absence (sadly, not a pleasant one) and i still have about 50 digests to read... wanted to comment on the dylan bootleg when i was in new york for the demme shoot, i found "Rob, Bob & Albert." i bought it at the first store i saw it in, in soho...i think, (i'm from toronto), but then i saw it again in a few other stores. the quality is really shitty, needs lots of eq to make it listenable. i don't know if there is a better bootleg of this show, if anyone knows please post or feel free to e-mail me privately at i'm also desperately seeking other bootlegs...all i have is "stand back dennis" anyone with a list of boots...or a place to get them somewhere in the states (or anywhere) that i can call...would you please let me know...you'd make my day! also...has anyone gotten into "Rifff"? I downloaded all the software from MSN and it still tells me i need a MSN-cd-rom to access its 'super wonderful contents'. i called and asked them to send me said cd-rom, but i fear it will come too late (being april 16 today). still getting messed up by forces that I just don't understand Randi p.s. Really sorry i missed everyone after the first demme shoot, but i was ill rushed back to Toronto as soon as the show was over. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:32:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Griffith Davies Subject: Pop Culture Press Y'all are looking for issure # 40 of Pop Culture Press. email: pcp@monsterbit.com web: http://monsterbit.com/pcp/pcp snail mail: Pop Culture Press P.O. Box 150423 Austin, TX 78715-0423 I picked up my copy at Tower Records a few months ago. I did receive an email from someone at PCP (Luann Williams, I think) who said that they still had a few issues left. Your best bet is email. good luck griffith ______________________________________________________________ Griffith Davies hbrtv219@email.csun.edu ------------------------------ From: "A. David Wright" Subject: Re: hitchcock does dylan and hi from randi Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 10:10:59 -0600 > also...has anyone gotten into "Rifff"? I downloaded all the software > from MSN and it still tells me i need a MSN-cd-rom to access its 'super > wonderful contents'. i called and asked them to send me said cd-rom, > but i fear it will come too late (being april 16 today). > > still getting messed up by forces that I just don't understand > Randi That CD-ROM will come too late, I can guarantee. What's worse, it may not even solve your problems. If you've downloaded the software, there's no reason why you'd need the CD. I had the same problems you're describing, and I HAD the CD. Turns out some tiny little bit of it was corrupted, and I had to uninstall everything, and reinstall everything again in a special order. My advice: don't wait for the CD. Get on the phone with MSN support (206-635-7019) NOW and see if they can't straighten you out. This, of course is assuming you've got everything okay on your end, such as running Internet Explorer 3.01, etc. One word of caution: The MSN support people are the least knowledgeable support personnel I've ever talked too, while simultaneously being the rudest about that fact. Call, and if you don't get your problem solved, call again. And again. And again. I really think the Robyn thing is worth seeing, so don't give up! -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 09:11:00 -0800 From: Russ Reynolds Subject: R & R History (0% RH) woj "amused" us old folks with: >my >dylan exposure has been superficial, at best, so it was a bit of an >eye-opener. i guess the same principal applies for the the velvet >underground with me -- i've gone backwards in time musically instead of >forwards, and it's been interesting hearing the roots after the branches. I've always felt I would have done better in history if it were taught backwards. Every history course I ever took was taught chronologically, but in researching the two subjects I enjoy most (music & baseball) I've found it makes more sense to start with the current (which is generally very easy to grasp) and work backwards. It makes the past so much more relatable. having an extremely bad hair day (though at my age I'm grateful to hav ANY kind of hair day) -- russ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 10:18:26 -0700 From: Nick Winkworth Subject: Kinky PI's vs. winky eyes On Mon Apr 14 Outdoor Miner unearthed: > It seems like people are saying that they were influenced by the Kinks > whether they were or not, just because the "in" folks are saying it. > [snip] > it is quite amusing to see something ... that you've loved forever > become trendy. Just wait till Storefront Hitchcock comes out. We'll all be standing around the [metphorical] water cooler *fuming* as all the non-fegs in our office/class or whatever say "well, of course, I was a fan of Robyn years before he was famous..." (I can dream, can't I?) *** OH NO!!! *NOT* the "Eye vs. PI" wars again!! I still bear the scars from Susan's spanking last time this old chestnut came up. For the record; I think PI is a fabulous example of Robyns great pop sensibility. IMHO this was more evident in the Soft Boys days, but only occasionally surfaces in his solo material. "Alright Yeah" proves he can still cut it, though. (By comparison, Eye rarely finds a place in my changer.) When Susan and Russ wear out their copies of Eye, they can trade their pristine copies of PI for the rarely played Eye's which Mark Ponder and I have. Isn't diverity a wonderful thing? ~N (sorry no .sig file) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 10:19:00 -0800 From: Russ Reynolds Subject: size doesn't matter >(And I like Respect and Queen Elvis more than Eye, if that matters. I >think that Respect was too short, though...) this is the second time I've seen this comment here in the last few days, so I thought I'd point out many of the greatest albums in the universe were "too short" by today's CD standards. Off hand I don't know what the total run time of "Respect" is, but I bet it's longer than Elvis Costello's first two albums and at least close to "Revolver" "Sticky Fingers" and even "Black Snake Diamond Role" for that matter (excluding CD bonus tracks). [Whether you consider these albums to be as great as I do is beside the point] The standard for vinyl was about 40-45 minutes, which is why 90 minute cassettes were so popular. The standard for CD's is probably closer to 50 or 60 minutes, which is why you see 100 and 110 minute tapes with stickers on them that say "ideal for CD" sure, you feel a little ripped off when you pay $15 for a CD that's barely half full, but filling up the CD isn't really the point when the artist enters the studio. For my money, I'd rather see a nice complete album like "Respect" that clocks in at around (guessing wildly) 38 minutes than an album with 20 minutes of bonus tracks tacked on just because there was room. and by the way, *I* like Respect and Queen Elvis better than Eye too. -russ :) ------------------------------ From: Aidan Cully Subject: Re: rec.games.video.robyn.hitchcock Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:42:37 -0400 (EDT) Carrie wrote: > At 6:55 PM 4/15/97, Truman Peyote uttered: > >Love on ya, > >Susan > >who is only a beginner programmer, otherwise she might take this on as a > >project :) > > Hmmm...just so happens that this IS a good idea and I happen to be pretty > involved in the games industry....Drop me a note - it's an interesting > premise...I mean really... > - Carrie "been in games so long it looks like up to me" Galbraith I think it probably makes most sense as a Zork-style text game, but who can do good RH style descriptions? What's the plot? Anyway, it's probably very easy to use the entire source for the game Adventure (Zork style engine, I've got source code.. It's standard C and will compile on all platforms) and edit the places, items and characters databases. --aidan > Feed prawn to Reg What do you want me to do with the prawn? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:40:44 -0500 (EST) From: Tracy Aileen Copeland Subject: size matters not On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Russ Reynolds wrote: > I think that Respect was too short, though... > "The food is terrible, and the portions are so small." Tracy "hereabouts two slices is standard" Copeland ------------------------------ From: Aidan Cully Subject: Re: My Favourite Buildings Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:49:45 -0400 (EDT) Gary wrote: > On Tue, 15 Apr 97, Tom Clark wrote: > > >Since the song uses buildings as a metaphor for our bodies, I suppose he > >means they're like a disease in the sense that we're stuck with what we > >have and have to make the best of it. > > Anyway, couldn't the 'disease' be the spread of buildings into > countryside, and the creation of more buildings in already overcrowded > towns? "You could wind up in a zoo" - caged in by buildings? Oh yeah.. I assumed that since he liked his buildings he was sad to see them go, quite unlike you might feel if you thought they should be excised. All in all, I'm willing to believe much of this song is just stuff he thought fit when he was writing it. --aidan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 10:51:00 -0800 From: Russ Reynolds Subject: EYE vs PI Nick shot from the hip: >When Susan and Russ wear out their copies of Eye, they can trade their Whoaa! Hold on just a minute fella! Methinks maybe you've been drinking a few too many large beers! How did I get lumped in with the Eye people? I'm not much of a fan of Eye, for the same reasons other people who arent fans of Eye (such as yourself) aren't fans of Eye. Not a fan of PI either. But just the same I'll hang onto my pristine copies of each to keep the collection complete. -rr ------------------------------ Subject: Re: size doesn't matter From: guambat@juno.com (What's a guambat?) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 14:20:55 EDT On Wed, 16 Apr 97 10:19:00 -0800 Russ Reynolds >sure, you feel a little ripped off when you pay $15 for a CD that's >barely >half full, but filling up the CD isn't really the point when the >artist >enters the studio. For my money, I'd rather see a nice complete >album like >"Respect" that clocks in at around (guessing wildly) 38 minutes than >an >album with 20 minutes of bonus tracks tacked on just because there was >room. I just checked, Respect is 37:22 -- but really it's only 33:18 if you don't count "Wafflehead" :) -- that's a joke, all you Wafflers out there... The point I was trying to make a couple of days ago is that if 37:22 of good material was all Robyn had for the CD--that's great. But why leave off three excellent songs? (I'm speaking of: "Live-In Years", "Alright, Yeah" and "Bright Fresh Flower"). Sure, we could play the "what if" game for any number of Robyn's albums--but this one seems particularly justifiable knowing what was out there. I mean, it's not like we're talking about a dance mix of "Yip Song" or a bonus track like "Grooving on a Inner Plane"... These songs, in my opinion, would fit nicely on Respect--and would even make it my favorite Robyn CD. The point is, however, that Robyn--or A&M--didn't feel the same way--and so they weren't included. Oh, also--I think the disappointment over the relatively short length of Respect (and all the A&M CD's except PI, for that matter) --is that previously with Midnight Music he filled them up "to the brim" with songs... and this was carried on by Ryko and Rhino later on. So the avid Robyn fan couldn't help but feel a bit cheated when he or she compares 37:22 of Respect with 54:33 of IODOT (MM, not Rhino) or 63:38 of Invisible Hitchcock (again, I'm not using the Rhino reissue). I could also use Fegmania! and Element of Light as examples, because I know both of them were over 50 minutes on the old Midnight Music/Glass Fish label--but right now I only have the Rhino versions in my possession. One last thing... what's so wrong with bonus tracks? At least with Robyn, I would venture to say that if some of them aren't among his best songs, they are at least "good" and worthwhile. For me, that's one of the great things about getting RH CD's--you get the "CD proper", as well as some other stuff that just makes it that much more of a treasure. What would EoL be with out "The Black Crow Knows", or Feg! without "Some Body", or UM without "Vegetable Man" and "Only the Stones Remain" or IH without "Dr. Sticky" or BSDR without "It Was the Night"...? I think I'm through now. :) Guambat ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 11:32:00 -0800 From: Russ Reynolds Subject: Production >> Brian Wilson >> Sean O'Hagan >> Yes >> This Mortal Coil >> Roger Waters >> Rain Parade >> DEVO >> Robyn Hitchcock on Underwater Moonlight > >I think Perspex Island is possibly a better choice than UM. Whatch'all >think? no way. PI is way too bland sounding and I don't think it's the songs. True, UM is kind of muddy, but the mix is PERFECT, IMO. I happen to love Pat Colier's style. -rr ------------------------------ From: Hedblade@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 14:53:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Apples, Oranges, and Oily Rags... I'm really going to regret this... << I would argue that the singing works pretty well, since the intention was probably for it to sound a little off, as the song does (the way I interpret it) have a bit of humor in the mix (I mean, really, listen to the opening count-off :)). And I love the opening lines! :)>> As an example of this, I'd use another Robyn song- "Superman." Certainly the singing is a bit off in that one, and yet I feel it works. Again, I think this is a humor device. Like it or not, you're feelings on this will place you in a certain camp as well. I'll venture that Susan likes "Superman" (but she'd like it a lot more if it was solo acoustic! :) ). << Eye is closer to a Lennon-style album. It reminds me very very much of Plastic Ono Band for about a jillion reasons. >> Oh yes, I have to agree with Susan here. No doubt about it. Now, here's the funny part for 'ol Jay here. I like Eye and PI and Respect A LOT. All of them- equally- for different reasons and moods. Asking me to pick between them is like asking me to pick a favorite parent or something. For some that may be easy, but for me it is close to impossible. Like food, you have favorites but you don't want them every night and the variety of choice is a pleasure in itself. I fear this makes me a fence sitter, but damn- that's the way I am. So........ > Eye or Respect: ??? (I've listened to Respect more- does that count?) > Favourite Beatle: John (hands down) > Brian Wilson or Bob Dylan: Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, here's the key to the Jay mystery! I haven't a pre-disposed preference. I tend to judge them more by the influence they've had rather then their own output. Both have had influence on my favorite artists! XTC- Brian Wilson Robyn - Dylan It could be argued that Dylan has had a much deeper influence on Roybn then Wilson has had on Andy Partridge and Co. Also, if you just want to go by volume of material and consistancy, Wilson DOES have a background of silly surf songs, the period of total brilliance in his career is fairly short, and what has he done as of late? (Yeah, I know about the Van Dyke Parks record...) Dylan, on the other hand has had periods of flux and flow, but overall is pretty damn consistant. At the very least, he hasn't turned into a parody of himself. So if push comes to shove... But picking between them, if based on my personal favorites, is asking me to pick between Robyn and XTC. Not only is it apples and oranges, it is a choice I'm not prepared to make. I like both of my parents equally. Anyway, I've got the creeping feeling that I've not only put myself in the middle of a war of words, and possibly tossed another oil rag by sparking another Brian Wilson debate, but I've also managed to clutter the space more than clear the air. With that, then, I bow out, or rather... RUN AWAY!!! Blinking On And Off, Jay P.S. After all of these years, George Harrison proved just how incredibly cool he is in the video Anthology (tm). Paul: "Yeah, well, Sgt. Pepper was an idea I had...." Ringo: "It was all fab! Really- totally gear! Those were great days!" George: "We got backstage to see Maharishi and I said to him: 'Got any mantras?'" Case closed! ------------------------------ From: Hedblade@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 15:11:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: size doesn't matter Russ wrote: << sure, you feel a little ripped off when you pay $15 for a CD that's barely half full, but filling up the CD isn't really the point when the artist enters the studio. For my money, I'd rather see a nice complete album like "Respect" that clocks in at around (guessing wildly) 38 minutes than an album with 20 minutes of bonus tracks tacked on just because there was room.>> HERE, HERE! I couldn't agree more! The High Llamas use a full CD's worth to great success, but often these days I find myself thinking an album is weaker than it really is simply because artists seem to think filling up the space is better. If an album has 10 tracks of which 5 are really solid, would you call it "Great?" How about if the same disc has 16 tracks with the same 5 solid tunes? As any art teacher will tell you, negative space is GOOD! (But I still love my Rhino collections with bonus tracks and my XTC discs with the b-sides added on, and...) Sincerely, Jay ------------------------------ From: "The Midnight Fish" Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:15:09 -0800 Subject: Re: Apples, Oranges, and Oily Rags... So sayeth Hedblade@aol.com : > But picking between them, if based on my personal favorites, is > asking me to pick between Robyn and XTC. Not only is it apples and > oranges, Or oranges and lemons, as the case may be... Drowning here in Leisure, --g "In nature, there are neither rewards nor punishments - there are Consequences." --R. G. Ingersoll, 1833 - 1899 ********************** Glen E. Uber glen@metro.net http://metro.net/glen/ ********************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:29:14 -0700 From: Lorrie and Grant Subject: portland, or concert my 2nd post in a week...my lurker status is going to be revoked at this rate! ;) a friend sent this to me, do any of you know anything about this? woj? > Hey! The Robyn Hitchcock concert is confirmed for Friday, June 6th >at 10:00 pm. It's going to be at the Aladdin Theatre (3017 SE >Milwaukie in PTLND- is that the new one?). Ticketmaster has the tickets >and they are on sale already- at least they are on line. > thanks, lorrie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 12:26:00 -0800 From: Russ Reynolds Subject: Re: size doesn't matter >The point I was trying to make a couple of days ago is that if 37:22 of >good material was all Robyn had for the CD--that's great. But why leave >off three excellent songs? (I'm speaking of: "Live-In Years", "Alright, >Yeah" >and "Bright Fresh Flower"). point well taken and agreed with. >I could also use Fegmania! and Element of >Light as examples, because I know both of them were over 50 minutes on >the old Midnight Music/Glass Fish label--but right now I only have the what everyone seems to have forgotten about here is that Midnight Music/Glass Flesh added bonus tracks to the albums when they went to CD. Four each on IODOT, EoL, and Feg. With IODOT they put them in the *middle* of the album (between "sides") which--though it works--is a bit odd. Original vinyl versions of those albums were all under 45 minutes -russ ------------------------------ From: TchdnJesus@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 15:32:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: gnomic verse meketone@well.com (Ethyl Ketone) writes: > I thought "The President" was definately talking about Mr. Reagan, > a man I detest, but hey, I'm one of those rare NATIVE CALIFORNIANS who can > remember him as Guv...roadblocks and all that... (My family bases memories > on dates - "'06, '33, '71, '89", etc., you know, earthquake years). And > remember when Raygun went to Deutschland and made headlines visiting a nazi > cemetary? I always thought that was what that song was about. definitely what it's about. same as the ramones's "bonzo goes to bitburg." when the old fucker dies, i'm going to call and harrass as many DJ's as possible into playing them over and over. and just remember: reagan isn't a real californian...he's from illinois....he isn't a real californiana...he's from illinois..... ------------------------------ From: TchdnJesus@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 15:32:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: A few unrelated RH topics sdodge@midway.uchicago.edu (Truman Peyote) writes: > The Beatles' first album actually doesn't use Ringo either. That was > session drummer Andy White. Anyway, I'm not sure what Ringo has to do with > it. no, no, no. it was the first recording session version of "love me do," the version that's on _Past Masters Vol One._ the album has ringo off-tempo throughout...... :) ------------------------------ Subject: Truth and Beauty and other quarks Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 16:47:01 -0000 From: The Great Quail Just thought I'd cheep in with some comments on the "Re: A few unrelated RH topics" thread. First of all, Susan sez: >Yes, there are, but that's not what I was arguing about at all. I was >trying to argue that imperfection is central to beauty. Which is not >something I can prove of course, it's just my opinion, but it's my >deeply-held and pretty much unshakeable opinion. The perfectly done songs >are seldom if ever the ones I turn to for spiritual sustenance. They're >not human enough. They might blow my mind away and provide an amazing >aesthetic experience, but I don't relate to them in the same intimate way I would like to add that I feel Susan's statements are wonderful and work to capture a truth. Beauty - I mean, it's pointless to argue over a definition - can at least have two aspects here. One is this imperfect beauty, to which "Eye" and "Trains" belong. It is this flawed attempt to capture pain and sorrow, joy and longing; fumbling fingers trying to map out the human heart with imperfect materials. And we resonate to that - we recognize the humanity in that, and we respond to it with tears, with a knowing epiphany, with a mute understanding that turns words to ashes and leaves us silent. There is a shared apprehension of the human soul. "Eye" - with all its quirks, oddities, charms, false notes, and moments of haunting transcendence - certainly belongs here, as does Joyce's "Ulysses," Dylan's "Blood on the Tracks," Lennon's "Plastic Ono Band" and Wim Wender's "Wings of Desire." (Please, I am not comparing genius levels here; just similiar strivings in different media.) Some may argue that Barret's "The Madcap Laughs" belongs here too, but I feel that much of its power comes from our own sense of paralysis, helplessness - watching (or hearing) another's decent into a less sane environment, sending back postcards that get progressively more difficult to understand. . . . So I would place Barret in a very different area than these artists. And then there is the beauty of perfection - a very different experience. This is the joy we feel in the comprehension of the numinous, the supra-human, that glimpse out of Plato's Cave and into the perfected world of Ideals. This beauty comes from harmony, and works to elevate the spirit, rather than map out the heart; it fills the soul rather than tests the limits of its prison. I would put Beethoven's Ninth here. . . . much of Michelangelo's work, and hell, even some Beatles tunes - Some of them are emotionally meaningless, and yet strangely elevating through a divined sense of perfection and harmony. Of course, the Beatles have charted both courses, in their own cute way of doing these so naturally it seemed like trivial fun. I mean, where does "Day in the Life" stand? (Or is that the essence of the Lennon/Macartney debate?) So . . . I love Robyn's more "pure pop" stuff because it is just that - finely crafted, almost perfected pop songs. (And hey - I am not comparing them to Beethoven here. But each chosen format can strive towards beauty and perfection, and I feel that RH and the Egyptians often near that goal! The Beatles, I feel, achieved it.) But many of his songs (esp. Eye type stuff) are closer to that "flawed" human beauty, and in those Robyn usually hits dead square on. Genius level. So the Eye vs. PI debate, in my opinion, boils down to which type of "beauty" one would rather turn to. As for myself, I love them both, and listen to them at widely different times and in very different moods. Just my musings. . . . Now, normal@grove.ufl.edu says: >> Hmm...Ive got an idea... >> email me the following, all you people... >> Eye or Respect: Eye >> Favourite Beatle: Lennon >> Brian Wilson or Bob Dylan: Dylan Thanks for listening. The Quail ---------------------------------+-------------------------------- The Great Quail, K.S.C. | TheQuail@cthulhu.microserve.com | "Keeper of the Libyrinth" | Sarnath - The Quailspace Web Page: riverrun Discordian Society | http://www.microserve.net/~thequail 73 De Chirico Street | Arkham, Orbis Tertius 2112-42 | ** What is FEGMANIA? ** "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents." -- H.P. Lovecraft ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 13:54:00 -0800 From: Russ Reynolds Subject: Bonzo (RH content less than .01%) >definitely what it's about. same as the ramones's "bonzo goes to bitburg." > when the old fucker dies, i'm going to call and harrass as many DJ's as >possible into playing them over and over. Hmmm...I think the Damned's "Bad Time For Bonzo" may have been out a little bit earlier, but I wonder if THAT was about Bittburg too... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 13:59:00 -0800 From: Russ Reynolds Subject: Re: fwd: portland, or concert ======== Original Message ======== my 2nd post in a week...my lurker status is going to be revoked at this rate! ;) a friend sent this to me, do any of you know anything about this? woj? > Hey! The Robyn Hitchcock concert is confirmed for Friday, June 6th >at 10:00 pm. It's going to be at the Aladdin Theatre (3017 SE >Milwaukie in PTLND- is that the new one?). Ticketmaster has the tickets >and they ar e on sale already- at least they are on line. > thanks, lorrie ======== Fwd by: Russ Reynolds ======== please tell me this is Portland Oregon and not Portland Maine! West coast dates at last??!! -rr ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:18:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Bayard Subject: Re: fwd: portland, or concert > ======== Fwd by: Russ Reynolds ======== > please tell me this is Portland Oregon and not Portland Maine! West coast > dates at last??!! -rr He played portland ME a coupla weeks ago, so looks like he's about to join you on the left. bayard harrison/eye/no preference ------------------------------ From: Aidan Cully Subject: Re: Truth and Beauty and other quarks Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 18:07:51 -0400 (EDT) The Great Quail wrote: > Just thought I'd cheep in with some comments on the "Re: A few unrelated > RH topics" thread. > > First of all, Susan sez: > > >Yes, there are, but that's not what I was arguing about at all. I was > >trying to argue that imperfection is central to beauty. Which is not > >something I can prove of course, it's just my opinion, but it's my > >deeply-held and pretty much unshakeable opinion. The perfectly done songs > >are seldom if ever the ones I turn to for spiritual sustenance. They're > >not human enough. They might blow my mind away and provide an amazing > >aesthetic experience, but I don't relate to them in the same intimate way > > I would like to add that I feel Susan's statements are wonderful and work > to capture a truth. Beauty - I mean, it's pointless to argue over a > definition - can at least have two aspects here. One is this imperfect > beauty, to which "Eye" and "Trains" belong. It is this flawed attempt to > capture pain and sorrow, joy and longing; fumbling fingers trying to map > out the human heart with imperfect materials. And we resonate to that - > we recognize the humanity in that, and we respond to it with tears, with > a knowing epiphany, with a mute understanding that turns words to ashes > and leaves us silent. There is a shared apprehension of the human soul. > "Eye" - with all its quirks, oddities, charms, false notes, and moments > of haunting transcendence - certainly belongs here, as does Joyce's > "Ulysses," Dylan's "Blood on the Tracks," Lennon's "Plastic Ono Band" and > Wim Wender's "Wings of Desire." (Please, I am not comparing genius levels > here; just similiar strivings in different media.) Maybe you and I have a different definition of perfection, but I've heard its impossible to do better than it. Eye is my favorite RH album, and I would argue that some songs on it _are_ perfect (these being: Chinese Water Python (OK, so its not a song), Aquarium and Glass Hotel) and these are the ones I listen to the album for. Is something perfect because it is an ideal? Maybe the problem is not two different kinds of beauty but rather a shift in focus from a thing to a thing in the context of everything around it. > And then there is the beauty of perfection - a very different experience. > This is the joy we feel in the comprehension of the numinous, the > supra-human, that glimpse out of Plato's Cave and into the perfected > world of Ideals. This beauty comes from harmony, and works to elevate the > spirit, rather than map out the heart; it fills the soul rather than > tests the limits of its prison. I would put Beethoven's Ninth here. . . . > much of Michelangelo's work, and hell, even some Beatles tunes - Some of > them are emotionally meaningless, and yet strangely elevating through a > divined sense of perfection and harmony. It sounds like you're confusing mastery of a craft with perfection.. Obligatory posting more than usual, hey my name isn't Susan line: Wow, maybe I've posted more than Susan today! I better lurk overtime. --aidan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 15:30:38 -0700 From: Grant Subject: last message Just realized that since I posted from work, the message about RH upcoming gigs will be from Bytesize Solutions, not myself, Grant. Sorry about the confusion, which I doubt there'll be much, since I so rarely post to the list. Grant ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:36:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Truman Peyote Subject: Re: Kinky PI's vs. winky eyes On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Nick Winkworth wrote: > When Susan and Russ wear out their copies of Eye, they can trade their > pristine copies of PI for the rarely played Eye's which Mark Ponder and > I have. I didn't know Russ was on the "Eye" team. It seems he didn't either :). Anyway, if you've worn out PI you can have mine. It's a cassette though.I think I've listened to it probably 3 or 4 times total. > Isn't diverity a wonderful thing? Yep! :) Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ From: HAMISH_SIMPSON@HP-Sonoma-om1.om.hp.com Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 11:23:02 -0700 Subject: Unrelated thoughts/Nirvana plagerism/Kinky things Item Subject: cc:Mail Text Fegs all, I did realise that "Kung Fu Fighting" existed and where it lay. I still don't know, however, why it was mentioned in the liner notes of "Eye". In an attempt to start a new thread, a thought struck me on the stripped down/popped up debate. It seems that most of the people who dig "Eye" first and "PI" later are guitarists and mostly of the "solo acoustic" type. Ross O and I are both bass players and appreciate the "band" thing a little more. (Personally I love "QE" but then the bass is nice and loud on that.) Is this generally the case or are there any fegs out there who are major exceptions. BTW Nirvana "Come As You Are" does sound a little like Killing Joke "Eighties", although the timing is a little different, it is however directly lifted from The Damned "Life Goes On" from the excellent "Strawberries" album. I take Susans point about the "rediscovery" of all the sixties pop bands. I'm not saying that people can't "discover" after the fact or that the music is somehow not "genuine", but the general public who care more about image than music are following sheeplike into yet another retro fad. Next year no one will remember. Fashion is the Bobby Ewing shower scene of life! (Wow, I thing I might use that one again.) (H) - Still no west coast gigs! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 15:24:45 -0700 From: "Byte Size Solutions Inc." Subject: Robyn Gigs It's confirmed. Ticketmaster has the following shows listed: ROBYN HITCHCOCK: 21-MAY-97, CHICAGO, IL ROBYN HITCHCOCK: 23-MAY-97, MILWAUKEE, WI ROBYN HITCHCOCK: 27-MAY-97, BOULDER, CO ROBYN HITCHCOCK: 6-JUN-97, PORTLAND, OR We'll be there for the Portland show, and let's some more June dates get filled in, maybe for Seattle, Eugene, or SF. Tickets for Portland are $15 a pop (oh well). Grant ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The End of this Fegmaniax Digest. *sob* .