From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org To: fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org Reply-To: fegmaniax@ecto.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org Subject: Feg Digest V5 #67 Fegmaniax Digest Volume 5 Number 67 Friday April 4 1997 To post, send mail to fegmaniax@ecto.org To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@ecto.org with the words "unsubscribe fegmaniax-digest" in the message body. Send comments, etc. to the listowner at owner-fegmaniax@ecto.org FegMANIAX! Web Page: http://remus.rutgers.edu/~woj/fegmaniax/index.html Archives are available at ftp://www.ecto.org/pub/lists/fegmaniax/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Today's Topics: ------- ------- Re: Too few notes modern/postmodern If Robyn was signed to Flying Nun, would he sound like Chris Knox? Re: danger: falling carrots Garbage theory (1% Robyn content) re: modern/postmodern Re: If Robyn was signed to Flying Nun, would he sound like Chris Knox? Re: bottom line: THERE ARE ONLY TWLEVE NOTES............. Flying Nun Re: Things Another recommendation from Blighty Flying Nun US (0% RH) Re: bottom line: THERE ARE ONLY TWLEVE NOTES............. Re: Too few notes Kimberley Recurring imagery..... Messages From the Cakekitchen Re: 97.3FM KBCO fwd: Kimberley Re: Keef Re: 0% Robyn content Modernism & Robyn, a few comments, la la la A Footnote About Post-Modern Robyn Re: Messages From the Cakekitchen Re: Modernism & Robyn, a few comments, la la la ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 18:33:09 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: Too few notes >From: Bret > >bottom line: THERE ARE ONLY TWELVE NOTES...... There are probably several microtonal composers who would gladly decapitate you for that statement. ;) Eb, who is utterly baffled why Garbage is so popular ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 22:17:56 -0500 From: wpb9826@is2.nyu.edu (Pete Bilderback) Subject: modern/postmodern According to the Guambat: > In fact, >being a graduate student of literature and philosophy, I would posit that >Robyn is a wonderful example of what postmodernism is, at least >lyrically. >There is a multiplicity of meaning, a certain enigmatic character that >allows >the listener to form her/his own opinions of meaning, and there is a good >mix of humor and seriousness. Another characteristic of postmodern >literature is a certain wordplay that goes on. This actually sounds like a better description of modernism than postmodernism, but we could probably argue about that--it's a tricky issue because nobody really conceives of postmodernism as a total break with modernism (or postmodernity with modernity). Usually the difference is thought of in terms of degree. It's funny that you don't see the term "postmodern" thrown around in popular culture so much anymore--it seemed to have become quite the catch phrase during the late 80s. I think the point made by David comparing RH to the Dukes of Stratosphere is a good one--they would seem to fit the postmodern category better because they self-conciously mimic a past style, producing a kind of pastiche. Also, the Dukes are all about a kind of play of surfaces, whereas no matter how clever Robyn's wordplay, one gets the feeling that it is also the expression of a real inner state (even if that state is not fixed, and it can be interpreted in a number of ways by the listener). Anyway, I don't want to annoy too many people with a lot of academic jargon--just thought I'd add my 2 cents. BTW, are many people on the list familiar with Richard Davies/ The Moles/ Cardinal? He seems like someone that would appeal to a lot of people on this list. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 15:50:41 +1200 From: james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan) Subject: If Robyn was signed to Flying Nun, would he sound like Chris Knox? RIELWJ@sbu.edu tempted fate: >>In keeping with the thread of recommendations, I highly implore anyone who hasn't already--and I'm assuming many of you have because you're the most rock-musically literate group I know-- to check out the Tall Dwarves/Chris Knox, The Clean (I love that kiwi stuff when I can find it, Bats. 3ds, Bailter Space, Straitjacket Fits--"Melt" is a masterpiece--Cakekitchen are brilliant, The Verlaines). Check out any/all of that if you already havn't, esp. "World of Sand" CK, "Weeville" TD, "Compilation" Clean (anyone hear the recent reuinion lp?), "Ready to Fly" Verlaines, "Hellzapoppin" 3Ds, "Fear of God" Bats,....and I really do like that Space disc. Part Julian Cope, Carter USM, Bowie, techno, Andrew Lloyd Weber, RH type lyric subjects, and a singer whou sounds like Ren Houak. Great stuff.<< Heh... guess who's going to reply to this one! :) The Verlaines newest album "Over the moon" is out now in NZ, and hopefully will be available in the US before too long. They've managed to raise a stir here in NZ with the cover art of the new album, so some overseas releases could be delayed if they have to change it (this info from the horse's mouth - I was speaking to their drummer Darren Stedman yesterday). Also, if you haven't got it there you, the Tall Dwarfs album "Stumpy" will be there soon, too (and it's EXCELLENT!). Other kiwi bands you'd probably like: The Magick Heads, David Kilgour, The Muttonbirds, maybe Peter Jefferies, maybe Sneaky Feelings, Look Blue Go Purple, Jean Paul Sartre Experience, Snapper, Alastair Galbraith... As for the Clean's 'recent reunion LP' they've put out three since reforming: Vehicle (pretty sparse 'classic Clean'), Modern Rock, (bit more production, some intersting experiments), and the latest, Unknown Country (excellent, but lush, quite a bit more experimenting with instrumentals etc. I wonder if Clean fans debate Unknown Country vs Vehicle the way RH fans debate Eye vs EoL...) oh, and Terry asks: >>1) Is Chris Knox the same Knox that helped out on BSDR, and recorded Plutonium Express? Or are there multiple Knoxes?<< not the same one. This Chris Knox is the ex-Invercargill, ex-Dunedin, now-Aucklander who has been one of the founding fathers of the Indie music scene in New Zealand since the days of The Enemy in 1979, though the seminal Toy Love (one extremely scarce and extremely good album), a string of excellent low-fi solo albums and several more as half of the duo known as the Tall Dwarfs. Famed for his own brand of wit that makes his lives shows so...odd (and fun), and owner of one of those lateral thinking/oddball philosophies that fits in nicely with Robyn's worldview. He also writes articles and appears on TV as a film critic, does the odd bit of art (much of which turns up as album covers), and wrote my pick for "best lyric of the week": "I cry (why do you cry?) - I remember. I smile (why do you smile?) - I remember." (Lapse, Chris Knox, 1991). Recommendations? Croaker (Knox), Weeville (Tall Dwarfs). James This message brought to you from the home of music, Dunedin ;) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 22:35:26 -0900 From: BC-Radio@corecom.net (Mr. Tambourine Man) Subject: Re: danger: falling carrots Bayard said: >> Actually, I was first introduced to Robyn in 1989 on MTV's program, "Post >> Modern MTV." They would play the "Queen Elvis" videos. > >Just curious... what was it you liked about them? The videos? Well, the first one I saw was "Madonna of the Wasps," and the tune is what initially caught my ear. Then the abstract way that the video was put together really caught my eye. The same went for "One Long Pair of Eyes." Robyn's videos to this day remain my favorites. The falling carrots, the bald boy, the old man, all of that... didn't seem to belong, and yet it fit right in... Brett ________________________________________________ "There is a fine line between deep thought and being catatonic." -Milo, "Chronomaster" 48 days until the Laserdisc/VHS release of "Star Trek: First Contact"! Reserve your copy today! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 08:51:35 -0500 From: Dolph Chaney CC: fegmaniax@ecto.org Subject: Garbage theory (1% Robyn content) Eb wrote: > Eb, who is utterly baffled why Garbage is so popular I have a theory, which is mine and belongs to me, about this. *ahem ahem* I know two people who are very excited about Garbage. One of them simply finds Shirley extremely attractive, which is thoroughly subjective and therefore very hard to fruitfully argue about, much as I've tried. ;-) The other has excellent taste in music (Robyn, Costello, and Tom Waits being her faves). Her husband is a big computer-graphics guy [for those of you who know the STARMAN series, he's Brian Frey, who does the covers], and I think Garbage appeals to them precisely because it's such a production job. They're the kind of people that go to special-effects-heavy movies and not only rave about how cool stuff is -- they can identify the software used to produce the effects just by looking at 'em. Another more literate defense of Garbage may be found in THE TROUSER PRESS GUIDE TO '90s ROCK, which you should all go buy immediately. And while I'm on about Trouser Press guides, in case you didn't know, the indispensable 1991 edition has now been transformed into a searchable website! Since we're Robyn fans here, the site should appeal to just about the whole list; I spend way too much time there. The URL: http://www.trouserpress.com/tprg4.html OK. That's my bimonthly post. See you in June! ;-) Dolph ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 09:01:49 -0500 From: "Gene Hopstetter, Jr." Subject: re: modern/postmodern Pete asked: >BTW, are many people on the list familiar with Richard Davies/ The Moles/ >Cardinal? He seems like someone that would appeal to a lot of people on this >list. Hell yes I'm familiar with them. The Cardinal album is perfect, perfect, perfect. Gorgeousness and gorgeosity made flesh. One of my favorite albums of all time. Eric Matthew's album is a really nice treat, too, but I like Davies' album much better. Wish they'd get off their butts and do another Cardinal album, tho. "The music machine's a whore you can use a million times. Predictably it moves too fast or slow." -- Cardinal, expressing why Robyn isn't the million seller he should be. __________________________________________________ Gene Hopstetter, Jr. +++ Internet Publishing Specialist E-DOC +++ http://www.edoc.com/ Voice: (410) 691-6265 +++ Fax: (410) 691-6235 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 08:59:52 -0500 From: Dolph Chaney CC: "Ted, Woody and Junior" Subject: Re: If Robyn was signed to Flying Nun, would he sound like Chris Knox? (OK, OK, so I'm replying more often...) I notice there's a Chris Knox credited with a drawing on Yo La Tengo's PAINFUL. The plot thickens? Also, on the Kiwi score, I just wanted to say that the last Jean Paul Sartre Experience album, called BLEEDING STAR and credited to JPS Experience, is a brilliant thing of feedback beauty. It was put out on Matador, and it might even be in print; if not, it's in used stores all the time, because the general record buying public isn't as clever as us Feg types. Dolph ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 09:07:30 -0500 From: Scott Hunter McCleary Subject: Re: bottom line: THERE ARE ONLY TWLEVE NOTES............. At 20:02 4/3/97 -0500, Bret wrote: > >bottom line: THERE ARE ONLY TWLEVE NOTES............. Not cessinarily. I immediately thought of Harry Partch, the composer who developed his own 43-tone scale -- and built many very beautiful and interesting-sounding instruments to match. If you're interested in modern music (as opposed to postmod... er, sorry), Partch is worth an investigation. There are a number of web sites about him and his music. I don't know if his book, Genesis of a Music, is back in print, but I read it in college, and it completely changed the way I thought about music and performance. Scott Scott Hunter McCleary 3052 S. Buchanan St., #A-1 Arlington, VA 22206 The new home of Prodigal Dog Communications: http://prodigaldog.com ------------------------------ From: RIELWJ@sbu.edu Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 09:25:09 EDT Subject: Flying Nun Thanks to James for his info on The Clean/Chris knox, etc. You don't happen to know if FN has a web page, do you? I'm very interested in this. Around 1993 was when there was a lot of press about the NZ music scene and a lot of good music was being released widely. I was able to find stuff at some very mainstream store. Bats, Straijacket Fits, and, I think, JPSE did a package tour. Anyway, I've heard of all the others you mentioned but don't much info on them here, or I'm not looking in the right places. Any info you may have would be swell. Last I heard the Bats broke up (before and after "Couchmaster"?), Verlaines dissolved once or twice (Graeme-- is thatr spoelling correct?--has probably my favorite R&R voice). has Shayne from SF done mych since they split? Don't mean to be a pest, just intensely curious! Watching Hardcore UFOs, Riel ------------------------------ From: Hedblade@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 10:46:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Things << It is puzzling to me, however, that they included "Legalized Murder" instead of "Watch Your Intelligence">> Best guess here- "Legalized Murder" was the only bonus track on a promo only 12" and thus fairly hard to find for die hards. "Watch Your Intelligence" on the other hand, was on the "So You Think Your In Love" CD single which WAS commercially released, and therefore much easier to find. In short, my guess is that the decision was made to rule in favor of the fan's desire for rare tracks instead of opting for the better song. I, for one, am happy they did because I didn't have "LM" but I do have "Intelligence." The same applies for "Ruling Class" in that a fairly hard item to find was included for us. Hooray!!! <> I see it as spliting the difference. They didn't want to substitute the live version for the studio version because OLPOE is one of Robyn's better known tunes. The intro itself is interesting on it's own. For die hards, its sort of a rip off, but for newbies, it is a nice intro to Robyn's funny story side. I'm not sure it works either, but the logic of the decision isn't lost on me. <> Agreed on those tunes, but the live version of "Birdshead" that originally appeared on the Pave The Earth sampler would have been nice too. A hard item to find with only the one Robyn track. The liner notes suggest that they didn't put everything on the disc because they didn't want to make our collections obsolete, but at the very least having the "Driving Aloud" single made obsolete by the GH still leaves a collector with a nifty custom sleeve by Robyn that you can't get anywhere else. The Pave The Earth sampler should have been taken out of the running as it isn't strictly a Robyn item. Does this make sense to you folks? Point is, we all have our own versions of what we would have liked and strong, valid reasons as to why it should have been done that way. In the end, the GH package still made my collecting a little easier, so I have to say I can't really complain. Blinking On And Off, Jay ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 16:45:07 +0000 (GMT) From: Gary Sedgwick Subject: Another recommendation from Blighty Another good new band over here at the moment is Catatonia, and I'm pretty sure they haven't made it to the US yet. They're from Wales, have a female lead vocalist, and I'd say they sound a fair bit like Belly but with a catchier, poppier indie sound. The album's good, but buy the single of _You've Got A Lot To Answer For_ with _Do You Believe In Me_ on it - both good songs, but DYBIM is by far and away their best. Gaz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 11:45:42 -0500 (EST) From: "Chris Eselgroth" Subject: Flying Nun US (0% RH) Flying Nun US (0% RH) 10:12 AM 4/4/97 well i going to end my silence and introduce myself. i'm chris and i'm a cone carrying hitchcock fan. i live in durham, nc and as you can probably tell from my e-mail address i work for mammoth records, i also do work for flying nun and merge records.... now about fn. flying nun's web site is: www.flyingnun.nz.com and if you didn't know they now have a US office and it's run by Mike Wolf. his e-mail address is: flynunus@interpath.com. he is a great guy and extremely knowledgable about the FN catalog. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 12:13:26 -0500 From: Bret Subject: Re: bottom line: THERE ARE ONLY TWLEVE NOTES............. Scott Hunter McCleary wrote: At 20:02 4/3/97 -0500, Bret wrote: > >bottom line: THERE ARE ONLY TWLEVE NOTES............. Not cessinarily. but fot the point of this argument please give me that ....:) I immediately thought of Harry Partch, the composer who developed his own 43-tone scale -- and built many very beautiful and interesting-sounding instruments to match. yes he did, and it is amazing, without question......... If you're interested in modern music (as opposed to postmod... er, sorry), hehahahehehahaa please someone say they got the point?!?!?!?! BTW we are straying a bit off topic here eh????? ------------------------------ From: "Glen Uber" Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 00:06:47 -0800 Subject: Re: Too few notes Also sprach Eb : > Eb, who is utterly baffled why Garbage is so popular Two words: Shirley Manson *SIGH* --g "Any kind of love is alright." --Andy Partridge ______________________ Glen E. Uber glen@metro.net Check Out My Ever Changing Moods at: http://metro.net/glen/ ------------------------------ Subject: Kimberley From: guambat@juno.com (What's a guambat?) Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 13:13:34 EST I have been forever looking for Kimberley's "Bible of Bop", but with no success. I have a few questions: 1. Is it still available? (ie: can you order it) 2. Does Kimberley do the lead singing? If not, who? 3. What songs does it have on it? 4. Is it available on CD? Well, not exactly Robyn, but Robyn-once-removed... sorry 'bout that. BTW: I was comparing the Soft Boys' (from Ryko UM) "Only the Stones Remain" with the Egyptians version... and I was trying to figure out why the Softies version is so much better... Maybe it's Kimberley's guitar... he IS damn good, isn't he? Guambat ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 14:02:58 -0500 From: Lobsterman Subject: Recurring imagery..... I've been lurking lately, which is bad of me. Sometimes you just don't have time to post. But I have been listening to Robyn shows this week, and something that struck me is imagery that Robyn uses that he's used for at least 10 yrs. These are images that recur in descriptions for songs and stories. (Note: I'm not referring to the way he tells the same story every time for certain songs, which is a new thing for him---three or four years ago it wasn't like that---his descriptions for the songs were different every time). Anyway, here are two, if you have more I'd love to see them. 1. Rooms with no doors or windows. (this is part of the standard desc. for Madonna of the Wasps, but now he talks about it sometimes for De Chirico Street.) 2. The piano as a flying machine. 3. Uh, cones. This one isn't very colorful or amazing, but nevertheless, cones do pop up. I'm off to work. 'bye. -jbj /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-//-/-/-/-/-/-/- John B. Jones e-mail:jojones@mailbox.syr.edu web: http://web.syr.edu/~jojones "Diane, I'm holding in my hand a small box of chocolate bunnies..." -Agent Dale Cooper \-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\- ------------------------------ From: RIELWJ@sbu.edu Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 14:38:20 EDT Subject: Messages From the Cakekitchen I have BLEEDING STAR by JPS Experience, as well--the only one I have of theirs-- and it's quite good; sugary and gooey, J&MC with sugar on their fingers. Don't know about you, but "Melt" by Straitjacket Fits is, for me, the quintessential New Zealander lp I've heard (and there is a lot I havn't heard). It's a dark and beautiful dose of songwriting and melody, and the cover art is, by the way, is excellent as well. To James again: Look Blue Go Purple has a member(s) of the 3Ds, no? I have an old Nun catalog stashed away somewhere that I never got to use. Able Tasmans? The one thing that all of these NZ bands I've heard and mentioned have in common--as well with Robyn and why he can be compared with them--is SONGWRITING. The lost art. As Dolph Chaney noted so correctly about Garbage-- production jobs are confused with songwrting these days and the general record buying public can't tell the difference. The number reason Robyn Hitchcock sounds so "odd" or "weird" to a lot of people is because he writes songs, not sounds cobbled together with Celine Dion emoting like a fatslag about some generic something or other. Sngwriting and a vision. Not sounds and a concept. thanks so much to Chris Eselgroth from Mammoth for the FN page info. I'll definately say hi to them. I'm curious about what You do for Merge. Not to be a pest, but I've been watching the Superchunk "Package Thief" list a bit, wondering about a new lp. They're still touring a bit, I guess, and I know Mac is busy w/ Portastatic. Interedted in anything you may have to say. Getting Older, Riel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 11:58:20 -0800 From: Deborah L CC: fegmaniax@ecto.org Subject: Re: 97.3FM KBCO Thanks, woj! Thanks, Bayard! Many blessings upon you both! -Debora ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 97 12:06:00 -0800 From: Russ Reynolds Subject: fwd: Kimberley ======== Original Message ======== I have been forever looking for Kimberley's "Bible of Bop", but with no success. I have a few questions: 1. Is it still available? (ie: can you order it) 2. Does Kimberley do the lead singing? If not, who? 3. What songs does it have on it? 4. Is it available on CD? Well, not exactly Robyn, but Robyn-once-removed... sorry 'bout that. BTW: I was comparing the Soft Boys' (from Ryko UM) "Only the Stones Remain" with the Egyptians version... and I was trying to figure out why the Softies version is so much better... Maybe it's Kimberley's guitar... he IS damn good, isn't he? Guambat ======== Fwd by: Russ Reynolds ======== 1. don't think so 2. yes 3, (in no order) Nightmare, Walking in the Dew, Nothing's Gonna Change,Hey War Pig, Fishing, Stomping all over the world, Fighting someones war...I think just 7 songs. some are with the Waves, some are with the dB's and some are with the Soft Boys (I think you can hear Robyn counting off at the beginning of "nothing's gonna change" but apart from that all you can hear of him are his inimitable guitar stylings 4. don't think so as for why Kimberley's guitar sounds so good, you'll have to ask Mr. Winkworth...a man who not only drinks large beers for lunch but has actually PLAYED Kimberley's guitar! -russ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 14:08:53 -0600 (CST) From: Truman Peyote Subject: Re: Keef On Thu, 3 Apr 1997, donald andrew snyder wrote: > A big Stones fan, maybe. Although, you'd have to be the one sending the > dead flowers to get the roses on your grave. I was assuming the equation of the Rolling Stones with roaches in terms of their longevity was the dead flower bouquet sent by me with love and kisses :). > Andy > > Oh yeah, don't forget the "take me down little Suzie" part. What about it? ;) Anyway, I never said I thought I was the queen of the underground. Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 14:06:04 -0600 (CST) From: Truman Peyote Subject: Re: 0% Robyn content On Thu, 3 Apr 1997, Glen Uber wrote: > Also sprach Tom Clark : > > > Hey - it had crabs and the Devil in it. I'd give it 4% Robyn > > content! Come on! It deserved more than that. > I actually thought Robyn had taken a job with associated press. I > give it a 10 RCQ (Robyn Content Quotient) because 1) it had me > fooled, 2) it had a groovy beat and I could dance to it, and 3) I > think "Lucifer Crab" would make a great title for Robyn's next > album. Would this album contain a cover of 'Lucifer Sam'? Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Subject: Modernism & Robyn, a few comments, la la la Date: Fri, 4 Apr 97 15:39:26 -0000 From: The Great Quail Well, I hope that some of you aren't tired of this thread, beacuse I just stumbled upon it and I am currently digging in my pocket for a pair of pennies. . . I run a web site (The Libyrinth) that features modern and postmodern writers, so I just couldn't pass this up. The ubiquitous (but delightful!) Susan writes: >Seriously, though, I'm not sure about the word "modernist" in this >context. "Modernist" makes sense when you're talking about styles of >painting but it sounds rather odd to me when you're dealing with a form of >music that didn't even exist as such until the early 1950s or so. >Still, there ought to be a term for this. I just don't know what it is. I >do know what you mean though. Well, seen as a movement that has certain characteristics, we can really apply it to just about anything we feel deserves it. This is one of the benefits of being a post-modern, ha! For instance, it is still possible to paint a pre-raphaelite painting, create impressionistic music, or recite dada poetry. Of course, it would be rare for someone to really be considered a pre-raphaelite today, but the styles are there. . . . So does that make all of us post-modern? Or are we post-postmodern? Something new? This has always lead me to the speculation that perhaps the Information Age has lead to a permanent destruction of long-term movements. (I mean, they do seem to have progressively decreasing half-lives . . . the Romantic Era seemed to last a generation or two, but Pop art? And damn, that pesky Classical Age seemed to last *forever*) And then fragmentation sets in . . . so are we "in" a movement? Will the folk of the next century coin some term for us? Labels, labels, everywhere, and oh! I bored my shrink, Labels, labels, everywhere nor any stop to think. David writes: >I guess what I really meant was that XTC were being Postmodernist -- >like Gorky's Zygotic Mynci or Chris Von Sneidern in this decade, they're >obviously and consciously (in their consciousness and in ours) assembling >collages out of quoted previous styles, movements, and songs. The Soft Boys, >for all that they turned song structure "upside down" and messed around, >were writing in the late-60s psychedelic style because that was Hitchcock's >_natural idiom_, his tastes having been formed in that time. I think this is a beautiful and well-worded reply. While it may be almost impossible to draw the Mason Dixon line between modernism and post-modernism, I feel that Robyn certainly has elements of both - but he tends far towards the former. His music is less *aware* of itself than most postmodern works, and I certainly don't mean that in a bad way. Of course Robyn is conscious of the ironies; so was Joyce and Pound - but he does not elevate his "consciousness of his consciousness" like a postmodern might - that is not in the main body of his work. Also, a deconstructionist could have a field day with Robyn, but since postmodernism is essentially *aware* of deconstructionism to the point where it ironically deconstructs itself, I again would consider Robyn a "modernist" with psychedelic tendencies. (Tendencies? Sheesh.) His music is presented essentially in earnest, a modernist gauntlet thrown down for us to pick up and translate. Early Bob Dylan was also a modernist, too, I think - particularly things like Highway 61 era stuff. >And you can't really rock out to Postmodernism, 'cause >you always keep hearing that ironic chuckle. Well . . . I agree to a point. The enjoyment comes on a different level: The Dukes, Beck, Pavement, and maybe even the Beastie Boys are, to an extent, very postmodern. I see Robyn as what bridges the gap: the Finnegan's Wake of the psychedelic world, roots planted in the modern soil but tendrils reaching towards the post. . . . So, if Joyce begat Eco and Pynchon, if Borges begat Garcia Marquez, if Dylan begat Beck, and if Syd and Lennon begat Robyn, who will be the future scion of Robyn? My vote is on Gavin Rossdale ;) Just my thoughts. Dissect them at will. The Quail ---------------------------------+-------------------------------- The Great Quail, K.S.C. | TheQuail@cthulhu.microserve.com | "Keeper of the Libyrinth" | Sarnath - The Quailspace Web Page: riverrun Discordian Society | http://www.microserve.net/~thequail 73 De Chirico Street | Arkham, Orbis Tertius 2112-42 | ** What is FEGMANIA? ** "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents." -- H.P. Lovecraft ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 12:17:35 -0900 From: BC-Radio@corecom.net (Mr. Tambourine Man) Subject: A Footnote About Post-Modern Robyn When I bought "Queen Elvis," the sticker on the shrink-wrap said, "#1 Post-modern artist of th year!" Brett ________________________________________________ "There is a fine line between deep thought and being catatonic." -Milo, "Chronomaster" 46 days until the Laserdisc/VHS release of "Star Trek: First Contact"! Reserve your copy today! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 15:16:45 -0600 (CST) From: Truman Peyote Subject: Re: Messages From the Cakekitchen On Fri, 4 Apr 1997 RIELWJ@sbu.edu wrote: > them--is SONGWRITING. The lost art. As Dolph Chaney noted so > correctly about Garbage-- production jobs are confused with > songwrting these days and the general record buying public can't tell > the difference. Kids these days, I tell ya! > The number reason Robyn Hitchcock sounds so "odd" or > "weird" to a lot of people is because he writes songs, not sounds > cobbled together with Celine Dion emoting like a fatslag A few observations: Do you really think that's the number one reason he sounds weird to people? :) I like the idea of "fatslag" as a one word insult, even if it as (as I suspect it is) a typo :). Last night I was conversing with some fellow music geeks on this very topic (hehe one of them had to apologize to a woman who came over and sat with us, who was visibly yawning and trying to feign interest- why am I always the only -girl- in these conversations, anyway......). I listen to the college station here (hell, I work at it too, though in the jazz dept.) and the local Top 40 (snicker) station that all the kids listen to, I guess, hoping desperately to hear something that my ears will find sweet. Well, all I hear is good production and worn out poses, attempts at imitating 70s balladry and the like. No songs. This is probably why I found Pulp's "Common People" so striking when I first heard it. I was just going about my business, thinking "I really should turn this crap off", when suddenly something comes on the radio and it's, hold on, wait, it's A SONG. I was beginning to think no one wrote them anymore! No wonder it didn't last very long at this particular station :). Love on ya, Susan I will try not to write anymore long off-topic posts I will try not to write anymore long off-topic posts I will try not to write anymore long off-topic posts Repeat 500x ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 15:46:34 -0600 (CST) From: Truman Peyote Subject: Re: Modernism & Robyn, a few comments, la la la On Fri, 4 Apr 1997, The Great Quail wrote: > The ubiquitous (but delightful!) Susan writes: Thank you :). > Well, seen as a movement that has certain characteristics, we can really > apply it to just about anything we feel deserves it. This is one of the > benefits of being a post-modern, ha! Hey Mom! The Quail's cheating! No fair she cried. You'd better watch yourself or I'll whack you with a giant Soussure. > For instance, it is still possible > to paint a pre-raphaelite painting, create impressionistic music, or > recite dada poetry. Yes and no, Mr. PoMo. It is possible to "imitate", but the periods in question have passed. Although one should be careful to distinguish between impressionistic (small i) versus Impressionistic (describing music from a particular period with common characteristics). Perhaps we should more accurately tack suffixes on, producing such hybrids as "dada-esque" and your own "Impressionistic", but ack, in the interest of laziness we often don't. And we all know what is meant because we're used to this convention. > of the next century coin some term for us? Labels, labels, everywhere, > and oh! I bored my shrink, Labels, labels, everywhere nor any stop to > think. Maybe they'll call us Sven. That's a nice name. Goo-goo, goo-goo Barabajagal, what's my name now? :) > post-modernism, I feel that Robyn certainly has elements of both - but he > tends far towards the former. His music is less *aware* of itself than > most postmodern works, and I certainly don't mean that in a bad way. Yeah. What he said. > does not elevate his "consciousness of his consciousness" A perfect definition of post-modernism. Ladies and Gentlemen, The Great Quail! A round of applause! > where it ironically deconstructs itself, I again would consider Robyn a > "modernist" with psychedelic tendencies. (Tendencies? Sheesh.) Don't you mean tendrils? > His music > is presented essentially in earnest, a modernist gauntlet thrown down for > us to pick up and translate. Early Bob Dylan was also a modernist, too, I > think - particularly things like Highway 61 era stuff. I agree with this too. Definitely. Bobby D is if anything a beat poet. > >And you can't really rock out to Postmodernism, 'cause > >you always keep hearing that ironic chuckle. I disagree, Mr. Librik. If you can't rock out to Beck you are probably clinically dead. > Well . . . I agree to a point. The enjoyment comes on a different level: > The Dukes, Beck, Pavement, and maybe even the Beastie Boys are, to an > extent, very postmodern. The Dukes, definitely (though one could also make an argument that the Dukes, being an affectionate tribute/parody, aren't necessarily postmodern- one must incorporate elements of what one is parodying in order for parody to work, obviously, but does that make it a postmodern bricolage?). Beck, sure. I'm not so comfortable with Pavement as an example though. > So, if Joyce begat Eco and Pynchon, if Borges begat Garcia Marquez, if > Dylan begat Beck, and if Syd and Lennon begat Robyn, who will be the > future scion of Robyn? Perhaps Jeremy Enigk? Love on ya, Susan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The End of this Fegmaniax Digest. *sob* .