From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org To: fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org Reply-To: fegmaniax@ecto.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org Subject: Feg Digest V5 #19 Fegmaniax Digest Volume 5 Number 19 Tuesday January 28 1997 To post, send mail to fegmaniax@ecto.org To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@ecto.org with the words "unsubscribe fegmaniax-digest" in the message body. Send comments, etc. to the listowner at owner-fegmaniax@ecto.org FegMANIAX! Web Page: http://remus.rutgers.edu/~woj/fegmaniax/index.html Archives are available at ftp://www.ecto.org/pub/lists/fegmaniax/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Today's Topics: ------- ------- Re: Iron Horse show update Peake art China, Syd and Big Star Re: Syd RH Article in Los Angeles Times Acoustic Guitar article & Devil's Radio Is this the altzheimer's convention? Re: UM cover Re: This Mortal Coil/Big Star Re: Syd Re: Acoustic Guitar article & Devil's Radio Re: Acoustic Guitar article & Devil's Radio Re: Acoustic Guitar article & Devil's Radio Re: Acoustic Guitar article & Devil's Radio Syd & China Re: Acoustic Guitar article & Devil's Radio Re: Syd Re: Syd & China Re: Acoustic Guitar article & Devil's Radio Re: Acoustic Guitar article & Devil's Radio My final word... or Miles said it best! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 08:59:35 -0500 (EST) From: Gary Assassin Subject: Re: Iron Horse show update > according to a friend who knows a friend who works at the knitfac, the > actual dates are march 11th through the 15th. soon as i can get firmer > details, i'll send them along. > Fuck! I'll in Switzerland from 3/7 - 3/16. Again, FUCK! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:22:38 -0500 From: Scott Hunter McCleary Subject: Peake art There are some scans of the Gormenghast characters at http://www.nashville.com/~Al.Schroeder/gormeng.html. That is all. Scott Hunter McCleary 3052 S. Buchanan St., #A-1 Arlington, VA 22206 Chock full o' links: http://prodigaldog.ppages.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 14:31:00 +0000 (GMT) From: "NORMAN PARKER +44 (0)1473-222478" Subject: China, Syd and Big Star On the China front, now stretching to Hong Kong, howsabout the Velvets' "Countess From Hong Kong" ? And if I had to compare Syd with someone, I'd choose to compare him with Big Star at the time of "Sister Lovers" - one of the most intense and moving records I have ever heard, or otherwise with Chris Bell's solo, which I hold in similar regard. I have to admit that as much as I love Mr H, I rate these two albums higher. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 14:41:08 +0000 (GMT) From: M R Godwin Subject: Re: Syd On Tue, 28 Jan 1997, David Librik wrote: > Some of the things said on here are making me think again about Syd Barrett's > post-Floyd work. I'd always assumed that _Madcap_ and _Barrett_ show him > trying to write catchy pop ditties with elliptical lyrics, and the general > weirdness of the music arising out of Barrett's madness. But Syd's Pink > Floyd was mostly about radical musical innovation; their live stuff was more > "Astronomy Domine" and "Interstellar Overdrive" than it was the whimsy they > put on _Piper_. They started as a blues band who refused to change chord on instrumentals. 'Candy and a Currant Bun' is still recognisable as 'Smokestack Lightning'. I'm not clear how deliberate the 'radical musical innovation' was. I think Jenner encouraged Syd to experiment with rolling ball-bearings down the strings, etc., though fun person Roger Waters claims he has "a battery of solicitors" to prove that it was all the group's idea. So ... could (some of) the bizarreness of the solo Syd sound > be intentional? Was he still trying for musical innovation with those > monotonous rhythms, loopy chord changes, and unexpected time shifts, or > are these (as I always assumed) the unavoidable detritus of his madness? I think you can hear the difference between the intentional bizarreness (on 'Clowns and Jugglers' and 'No Good Trying' for example) and the mistakes ("I'll start again ... no ... it's just that ... I'll start again"). The outtakes on Opel are worth listening to, because you can hear several deliberate takes of tracks which you might perviously have thought were 'accidental' one-take wonders. And the things like 'Maisie' and 'Words' sound to me like quite deliberate 'cut-ups' of the Brion Gysin / William Burroughs variety. On the other hand, 'Birdy Hop' could arguably do with a touch of the Phil Spectors on the production side. The loopy chord changes are still there and so are the strange guitar noises. Jerry Shirley shows that he is one of the best rock drummers of all time. The noise that is noticeably missing is the Rick Wright 'cosmic Farfisa' sound; and without that, the records sound somehow much more homely and less experimental. > In short, can you answer your friends' descriptions of _The Madcap Laughs_ > as "weird shit, man" with "yeah, he was nuts"? No. My wife is convinced that I only like Syd because I am half in love with easeful madness, but I just enjoy the songs. What 'Madcap' and 'Barratt' do show, though, is that sometime in 1969/70, Syd stopped being interested in finishing songs off. The ideas were still coming through, but the discipline to tidy them up just fell away. Still rambling on - Mike Godwin PS I thought that 'Octopus' CD was quite a good idea - but why include two versions of 'Clowns' and leave out 'Terrapin'? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 08:12:10 -0800 (PST) From: Griffith Davies Subject: RH Article in Los Angeles Times I was all set to start typing the article, when I did a search on the internet for it. Luckily, I found it. The URL for the article is: http://www.latimes.com/HOME/NEWS/SUNCAL/t000007610.html Check it out.... griffith (who doesn't have carpal tunnel) ______________________________________________________________ Griffith Davies hbrtv219@email.csun.edu ------------------------------ From: Ross Overbury Date: Tue, 28 Jan 97 12:47:20 EST Subject: Acoustic Guitar article & Devil's Radio RNING: High Robyn content! I notice that this month's Acoustic Guitar magazine says Devil's Radio is the standout cut on Moss Elixir. I found that most odd, especially coming from a guitar techniques magazine. Heliotrope does get mentioned, but they feature a transcription of Devil's Radio. Isn't the George Harrison song of the same title also written about the same subject? I seem to remember some babbling sounds in George's song, too. Just a bit too close for comfort, don't you think? They're an acoustic guitar publication, so the sublime "Beautiful Queen" and the gathering stormclouds of "I am Not Me" are not up for consideration, but does Devil's Radio grab you more than Heliotrope? Flamebait: Trilobite sure sounds unimpressive to me. Or is it just the ML version? I can't understand the raves I heard on this list! -- Ross Overbury - who is like the potato. Montreal, Quebec, Canada email: rosso@cn.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:33:28 -0800 From: Nick Winkworth CC: Vyrna Knowl Subject: Is this the altzheimer's convention? Re: UM cover Russ Reynolds wrote: > > >I forgot to look this weekend, but I'm pretty sure my LP copy of UM, > >bought when it first came out in the UK, does NOT have Lal's sculptures > >on the cover. > > This would be some revelation. Mine most definitely DOES have the > sculptures... > I'm going to guess faulty memory in this instance... Err... more faulty than you could possibly imagine. The reason I couldn't remember seeing Ms Hitchcocks' fine work on the cover is that I don't have (actually, no longer have) the vinyl version of that particular opus!! I was in fact thinking of a different album entirely! Duh. (Just goes to show how often I get out my LPs these days...) OK Russ, now you can say "I told you so"... -Nick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 97 11:37:20 -600 From: spine@iastate.edu (James Francis) Subject: Re: This Mortal Coil/Big Star > > Yikes! This surprises me. _Radio City_ is one of my absolute favorite > > albums in the world. Their _Live_ cd, though, is even better (not the > > recent reunion but the live one on Ryko which was taped in the 70s). > > Stripped down, perfect songwriting--the absolute essence of what I think > > "rock" music should be. > > > > Not trying to sway anyone, really, just sticking up for what I think > > was an amazing band and one that most Robyn fans would go nuts for. > > Gotta disagree. I found most of the songs unlistenably...well, they had > too much of a beat, if you know what I mean.. > Anyhow, I think that Squeeze, The Kinks or The Beach Boys are much more > Robynesque than Big Star. RH basically strikes me as well-done, whimsical > light pop....Big Star doesn't. I know that he isn't *always* well-done, > whimsical light pop, but usually, he is.. > Just to clarify what I was saying--I don't think they're Robynesque, I think they're great, especially the songwriting, and I think most Robyn fans are fans of songwriting. Big Star is pop-rock music. _Radio City_ and _Live_ are just great pop records. _Sister Lovers_ is something more. But I was originally responding to someone's assertion that _Radio City_ "wasn't exactly full of pop gems"--when I feel that the songs are exact definition of pop gems. I suppose everybody's just not gonna agree, but still think many Robyn fans would appreciate this music a lot. Okay, enough out of me. --"Jim" Francis ------------------------------ From: Terrence M Marks Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:06:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Syd > Some of the things said on here are making me think again about Syd Barrett's > post-Floyd work. I'd always assumed that _Madcap_ and _Barrett_ show him > trying to write catchy pop ditties with elliptical lyrics, and the general > weirdness of the music arising out of Barrett's madness. But Syd's Pink > Floyd was mostly about radical musical innovation; their live stuff was more > "Astronomy Domine" and "Interstellar Overdrive" than it was the whimsy they > put on _Piper_. So ... could (some of) the bizarreness of the solo Syd sound > be intentional? Was he still trying for musical innovation with those > monotonous rhythms, loopy chord changes, and unexpected time shifts, or > are these (as I always assumed) the unavoidable detritus of his madness? > > In short, can you answer your friends' descriptions of _The Madcap Laughs_ > as "weird shit, man" with "yeah, he was nuts"? Well, it's not like "This album would sound like Rubber Soul if you had someone sane recording it" or suchlike. I think that a good portion of what was there was meant to be there. A lot of what he did, he did because he was a genius, but some of it didn't work because he was crazy. I think. Terry ------------------------------ From: Terrence M Marks Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:51:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Acoustic Guitar article & Devil's Radio > Isn't the George Harrison song of the same title also written about the > same subject? I seem to remember some babbling sounds in George's song, > too. Just a bit too close for comfort, don't you think? There's a George Harrison song of the same title?? Terry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:15:26 -0600 From: mbrage@surgery.bsd.uchicago.edu (Michael Brage) Subject: Re: Acoustic Guitar article & Devil's Radio Terry Marks inquired: >There's a George Harrison song of the same title?? > Yes, I believe it's off the Cloud Nine LP. Besides the Travelling Wilburies stuff, I think it was Harrison's last solo record. Michael ------------------------------ From: Ross Overbury Date: Tue, 28 Jan 97 14:23:10 EST Subject: Re: Acoustic Guitar article & Devil's Radio > > > Isn't the George Harrison song of the same title also written about the > > same subject? I seem to remember some babbling sounds in George's song, > > too. Just a bit too close for comfort, don't you think? > > There's a George Harrison song of the same title?? > > Terry > Just in case you weren't joking, or somebody on the list isn't old enough to remember, there was a Harrisong out a few years back called "Devil's Radio". You may recall during Robyn's pre-release tour more than one feg responded to set list postings by asking if the song was George Harrison's Devil's Radio. That's why! Anybody have the lyrics? I'd like to compare. -- Ross Overbury Montreal, Quebec, Canada email: rosso@cn.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 97 11:57:00 -0800 From: Russ Reynolds Subject: Re: Acoustic Guitar article & Devil's Radio ======== Original Message ======== > Isn't the George Harrison song of the same title also written about the > same subject? I seem to remember some babbling sounds in George's song, > too. Just a bit too close for comfort, don't you think? There's a George Harrison song of the same title?? Terry ======== Fwd by: Russ Reynolds ======== Technically, no. Harrison's is "Devil's Radio," Hitchcock's is "*The* Devil's Radio" (on Cloud Nine). That aside, George could show Robyn a thing or two about mimicking songs too closely for comfort. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:56:55 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Syd & China >From: Truman Peyote > >> I heard that Pink Floyd included "Astronomy Domine" on that live Pulse >> double-disc purely so Syd could get some more royalties. Whatever Floyd's >> other materialistic sins of late, that WAS pretty nice of them.... > >That's too disingenuous by half. >"Astronomy Domine" is just good material. Pure and simple. >If by using it they get the chance to look like "good guys", then so much >the better. Well, "Astronomy Domine" may be good material, but like most of Piper..., it really doesn't fit the sound of the current Floyd. And as pointed out earlier, many of Floyd's fans today are totally ignorant about the Barrett days. I don't remember, but I'd venture to guess that "Astronomy Domine" received a much milder crowd response than "Comfortably Numb," etc. Thus, including "Domine" with the live album seems like something other than a purely musical/populist decision to me. I mean, is there any other pre-Dark Side track on there? >From: M R Godwin > >There's a Paul Kantner song which goes something like: >'Let me tell you 'bout a man I know >Rode the length and breadth of China >On a horse that he made himself And of course, Grace and Paul's daughter is named China. From what I heard (I don't have cable), she was also a MTV VJ for a time. >From: "Daniel J. Troy" >Subject: Big Star > >I think it's surprising how influential the first two albums are, given >that it's >merely a continuation of the jangly guitar pop popularized by the Byrds, >Beatles, etc. It's good, at times, great, pop, but represents no significant >movement from their 60s heroes. I don't agree with that. Those albums may build on the Beatles and Byrds, but I think there are plenty of new wrinkles added. The thing that really gets under my skin about Big Star is the songs' "falling apart" quality. It's the same thing that's intriguing about Barrett, actually. Especially on Radio City and Sister Lovers, there's a jagged, irregular quality to the songs where you feel like any second, the band's just gonna end the song altogether, throw up their hands and give up. It's hard to put into words, but the strange way the chords and rhythm changes collide really thrills me. I once read somewhere that Chilton sounds like he's playing the guitar upside-down -- I liked that quip. :) I think it's a real shame that Big Star is most remembered for "September Gurls," which IS a very safe, conservative continuation of the Beatles/Byrds thing. There are many, many Big Star songs I like better than that one. And the funny thing is, often when people compare bands to Big Star nowadays, they're not comparing them to Big Star as a whole but essentially to the safe 'n' jangly "September Gurls." And this means that these folks should REALLY be comparing said bands to the Byrds/Beatles, not Big Star. I've heard very few (supposedly) Big Star-descended bands/songs that have that same falling-apart quality. In fact, the only one I can really think of at the moment is Matthew Sweet's "Divine Intervention" (the first song on Girlfriend). Oh, and in this week's Sunday Calendar section of the Los Angeles Times, there's a big article about the Robyn/Demme film. I'm surprised no one else has mentioned it yet. Eb ------------------------------ From: Terrence M Marks Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 16:38:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Acoustic Guitar article & Devil's Radio > Just in case you weren't joking, or somebody on the list isn't old > enough to remember, there was a Harrisong out a few years back > called "Devil's Radio". You may recall during Robyn's pre-release > tour more than one feg responded to set list postings by asking > if the song was George Harrison's Devil's Radio. That's why! > > Anybody have the lyrics? I'd like to compare. Oh... I honestly didn't know..A friend of mine said he heard this "Devil's Radio" song that sounded a lot like George Harrison. I lent him Moss Elixer, and he said it was a different version. I just figured that he heard the Mossy Liquor version... Terry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 17:54:09 -0600 From: Outdoor Miner Subject: Re: Syd At 02:41 PM 1/28/97 +0000, M R Godwin wrote: >> In short, can you answer your friends' descriptions of _The Madcap Laughs_ >> as "weird shit, man" with "yeah, he was nuts"? > >No. My wife is convinced that I only like Syd because I am half in love >with easeful madness, but I just enjoy the songs. What 'Madcap' and >'Barratt' do show, though, is that sometime in 1969/70, Syd stopped being >interested in finishing songs off. The ideas were still coming through, >but the discipline to tidy them up just fell away. That last part is why post-Floyd Sid doesn't work for me -- it's nearly unbearable for me to listen to someone whose mind is falling apart right before your eyes -- well, ears. And I think I said this sometime last year on the list, but the Robyn = Syd comparison is too easy, and way too limiting -- Robyn is so much more than just Syd's successor, and IMO, far greater of an artist in reach and grasp than Syd ever was even in his _Piper_ heyday. Later, Miles ====================================================================== "I don't know a single damn thing 'bout these words or the world or the feelings that force me to sing" -- Anton Barbeau, "Heather Song" Miles Goosens goosenmk@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu ====================================================================== ------------------------------ From: Terrence M Marks Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 16:48:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Syd & China > Well, "Astronomy Domine" may be good material, but like most of Piper..., > it really doesn't fit the sound of the current Floyd. And as pointed out > earlier, many of Floyd's fans today are totally ignorant about the Barrett > days. I don't remember, but I'd venture to guess that "Astronomy Domine" > received a much milder crowd response than "Comfortably Numb," etc. Thus, > including "Domine" with the live album seems like something other than a > purely musical/populist decision to me. I mean, is there any other pre-Dark > Side track on there? I believe that they included One of These Days. (at least they did it live during most of that tour). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 19:17:49 -0600 (CST) From: Truman Peyote Subject: Re: Acoustic Guitar article & Devil's Radio On Tue, 28 Jan 1997, Michael Brage wrote: > Terry Marks inquired: > > >There's a George Harrison song of the same title?? > > > > Yes, I believe it's off the Cloud Nine LP. Besides the Travelling > Wilburies stuff, I think it was Harrison's last solo record. Yes, it was. As far as I can remember, the lyrics were a tirade about the evils of gossip, comparing it to disease and industrial waste, among other things. Nothing like Robyn's song either musically or lyrically. Love on ya, Susan old enough to remember it:) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 20:03:12 -0600 (CST) From: Truman Peyote Subject: Re: Acoustic Guitar article & Devil's Radio On Tue, 28 Jan 1997, Ross Overbury wrote: > RNING: High Robyn content! > > Isn't the George Harrison song of the same title also written about the > same subject? I seem to remember some babbling sounds in George's song, > too. Just a bit too close for comfort, don't you think? Nope. As I said in a previous post, it's about how evil gossip is. Sample lyric: it'll turn you into something cold, like an eskimo igloo :). The babbling you remember is from another song from that album, "Cloud Nine", called "When We Was Fab", which includes that and lots of other similar Beatle-isms (even a male chorus chanting "fab! gear!" in the background at points). Both of these songs were top 40 hits at the time (1987 I believe) along with the infamous "Got My Mind Set on You" (so aptly parodied by Weird Al as "This song is just six words long"- those of you who remember the song will know why that's funny :)). > They're an acoustic guitar publication, so the sublime "Beautiful Queen" > and the gathering stormclouds of "I am Not Me" are not up for > consideration, but does Devil's Radio grab you more than Heliotrope? Did no one hand them the "Mossy Liquor" versions? I guess not. > Flamebait: Trilobite sure sounds unimpressive to me. Or is it > just the ML version? I can't understand the raves I heard on this > list! I think "Trilobyte" is rather charming, actually. One time when I'd had a few at a party I picked up a guitar and started singing it, to the great acclaim of the other drunks present, who promptly declared that it was a shame that there weren't more songs about trilobytes being written :). Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ From: Hedblade@aol.com Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 22:04:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: My final word... or Miles said it best! Miles, in his wisdom, said: << the Robyn = Syd comparison is too easy, and way too limiting -- Robyn is so much more than just Syd's successor, and IMO, far greater of an artist in reach and grasp than Syd ever was even in his _Piper_ heyday.>> HERE, HERE. Can I say it again? Robyn is far greater of an artist in reach and grasp. Syd was pure and raw and beautiful, but Robyn has managed longevity which in art and expression, is an art in itself. By the way, his material is getting better and better with age in case you didn't notice, and as he ages the comparrisons to Syd are not just too easy, but without merit. Sincerely, Jay ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The End of this Fegmaniax Digest. *sob* .