From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org To: fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org Reply-To: fegmaniax@ecto.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org Subject: Feg Digest V4 #164 Fegmaniax Digest Volume 4 Number 164 Send posts to fegmaniax@ecto.org Send subscribe/unsubscribe commands to majordomo@ecto.org Send comments, etc. to the listowner at owner-fegmaniax@ecto.org FegMANIAX! Web Page: http://remus.rutgers.edu/~woj/fegmaniax/ Archives are available at http://archive.uwp.edu/pub/music/lists/fegmaniax/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Today's Topics: ------- ------- Robyn's Business Degree, flushed down the rocknroll toilet Q Review, etc. Field trip Globe of Frogs Re: UM and BSDR Re: UM and BSDR Re: Q Review, etc. Re: Robyn's Business Degree, flushed down the rocknroll toilet Re: Q Review, etc. Re: Robyn's Business Degree, flushed down the rocknroll to Still need vinyl? My first RH... Brewing Moss Elixir Re: Brewing Moss Elixir Re: Brewing Moss Elixir critics hit the fans (potential flame content) Re: Robyn's Business Degree, flushed down the rocknroll toilet The Loud Family- Interbabe Concern Re: Brewing Moss Elixir Re: Brewing Moss Elixir Re: critics hit the fans (potential flame content) Groovy Dec*y Re: Brewing Moss Elixir Re: Brewing Moss Elixir Re: Groovy Dec*y Album Poll Results Re: Q Review, etc. Re: Brewing Moss Elixir Zappa (was Groovy Dec*y) Heliotrope my love.... Appreciating Moss Elixir the fans hit the critic Re: Zappa + Moss re: Groovy Dec*y ------------------------------ From: BLATZMAN@aol.com Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 22:34:42 -0400 Subject: Robyn's Business Degree, flushed down the rocknroll toilet Ah yes, business and art. What to think of it. If Robyn were a businessman, he would be broke. He is a bad decision maker. He will always the artist who let the big ones go. Given proper production and exposure, I believe the following could have been bigger than some of his most popular singles: 1)Tell me about Yer drugs (come on!) 2) Watch Yer Intelgence 3) BIRDSHEAD!!!!!!!! (relegated to total obscurity) 4) Alright Yeah (old Version, should have been released w/Respect) 5) Devil's Radio (With real rock and roll production baby) 6) De Chirico Street (same) All these could have been monster singles. (anyone remember that great Tiffany song "Could've Been?) PLUS!!!! Respective albums could have been strengthened by adding the following: 1) Globe of Frogs Electric 2) Ruling Class 3) September Cones 4) Wide Open Star 5) And of course all the songs stated above that didn't make the cut. What is up? Does he have no perspective? What I will never be able to understand is why why why release the flimsy Devil's Radio on the album. Can somebody please tell me what's to GAIN? The other version fits right in. As a business man, why wouldn't you choose the version that increases your chances of exposure (and thus increases your chances of a brighter future with wider releases). Maybe Robyn himself is the very reason why he's not more popular. Stupid business decisions. B:-)L:-)A:-)T:-)M:-)A:-)N And please people, if you disagree with me, send it to the list. I've been getting some very condescending hate mail from free speech champions who aren't happy with my point of view. I know, its great fun to spit on somebody when nobody's watching. Beware minority, the majority won't hesitate to PERSONALLY disparage you. ------------------------------ Date: 29 Aug 96 23:06:58 EDT From: Doc <75602.2577@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Q Review, etc. Sorry kids, I had this one laying around and I forgot to post it: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- >From Q Magazine, September 1996 (it has one of the evil Gallagher bros on the cover.) Robyn Hitchcock Moss Elxir Warner Bros 46302 Being the British rock answer to Edgar Allen Poe must be frustrating. Robyn Hitchock's old band, The Soft Boys, a strong influence on R.E.M., are now indie legend and though Hitchcock has a strong cult following in American alternative circles he seemingly cannot, for all of his very real talents, break through to the next level which he so deserves. Moss Elixir, his first for Warners and and largely without The Egyptians is 100 percent distilled essance of English eccentric, Hitchock sings like Syd Barret warming up, his and Pat Collier's production is a clean, post-modern psychedelia, arrangements are at least inventive when they are not downright innovative, and one song is quite seriously titled A Happy Bird Is A Filthy Bird. (FOUR STARS) -Sid Griffith --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Well...that's not all bad, is it? Erum...is it just me or is there just a huge amount of overanalysis goin' on over the album? I mean, there are bits that grind on me and all...but jeez...it's so friggin' good that it just don't matter at the end of the day. Is there anyone out there that just likes the way the music hits their soul, no matter what? Blatz-- Them discs don't biodegrade. RECYCLE, pal. Terry The Mellotron-- Thanks for posting more tab! Great work. Ken V. The Holier Than Thous-- Quite right. Wish I had the guts to say it. Look after yerselves. -Ed, Doc, what'll it be? Fuller's ESB or Fuller's Summer Ale?... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 21:07:08 -0700 From: gondola@deltanet.com (E.B.) Subject: Field trip >From: sdodge@inforel.com (Susan Dodge) > >Which brings me to the topic of Underwater Moonlight and BSDR. I can >understand not being gaga over BSDR (it was kinda low on my ten list), but >I'm have to admit I'm baffled by those who are not blown away by Underwater >Moonlight. The title song alone is a masterpiece, but this is also the >album that contains "Insanely Jealous", "I've Got The Hots For You" (wait >til you see the statues in my bathroom!).... Calling all Fegs...next stop: Susan's bathroom!!! Please don't shove, there's plenty of room for everyone.... EB (whose fave RH album is Underwater Moonlight, bydaway) ------------------------------ Subject: Globe of Frogs From: guambat@juno.com (James & Holly Moore) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 23:23:04 EDT GoF was my first RH album, too. At the time, I thought it was the most original stuff I'd ever heard... light years ahead of everything else "alternative" that was coming out then. Funny, but it's the only RH release that I don't have on CD, so I don't listen to it too much. But when I do I am always surprised at how much I like it. Contrary to conventional Feg wisdom, I think that it stacks up with the other A&M albums very well. I suppose it's pretty uncool to be a hardcore Fegster and still like Balloon Man, although I don't really know why. I happen to think it is a lovely song--the lyrics aren't horrid, and at times are quite poignant ("and it rained like a slow divorce"), and the acoustic guitar part at the close remains one of my favorite RH riffs. Flesh Number One, as others have said, is a pop gem. It's a beautiful song and it even has a great message. Chinese Bones is similarly stunning for its elegance and beauty. How can anyone not like this one? Vibrating is better than good, and Devil Mask rocks. Unsettled is very strange lyrically -- like Robyn overdosing on verbal quirkiness -- but musically it is quite good. Reminds me of the Stones, for some reason. I'm a fan of Luminous Rose -- it works for me, and I think it's a great experimental piece for him. It's quite a serious song, and it strikes me as being "important". The other tracks (Globe of Frogs, Shapes, Mandala) might be "throw aways", but are they really any worse than any of Robyn's other "throw away tracks"? What RH album doesn't have throwaways? Actually, these "throwaways", to me, are better than Perspex's or even Respect's "throwaways". So, all that to say, that It seems to me that Globe of Frogs needed to be defended a bit here.... so I've defended it. By the way, the Moss is really growing on me. Love that Sinister thing. James Moore guambat@juno.com ------------------------------ From: "Christine Du Bois" Subject: Re: UM and BSDR Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 21:01:31 -0700 Okay, I have to contribute to this thread lest I slowly wither and die. UM is such a brilliant, incredible piece of work. I also fail to understand those who are repulsed or simply nonchalant about it. How could you not LOVE "You'll Have To Go Sideways," "Insanely Jealous," "I've Got the Hots For You," "I Wanna Destroy You," and (my personal fave) "Kingdom of Love"??? What I always considered odd and ironic is that Matthew Seligman actually plays bass on this particular album! After all, Andy Metcalfe was such a pivotal member of the Soft Boys and contributed an integral essence to the unique and overall SB sound. Yet he doesn't play on their best project. It's always been sort of sad to me. Sniff, sniff. I've become less fond of BSDR over the years. Not because it isn't great, but because....well, because it reminds me of a rather dismal year in my life (1989). I didn't recognize the connection until I really brooded about it, but I'll be damned if I can listen to it in its entirety these days. Also, what's happening with the fan club? Are Sandra and Trudy still involved? (What nice gals!) And is RH still co-habitating with Cynthia in DC and the Isle of Wight? There's my meager .02! Christine who just adopted two adorable black cats named Isis and Osiris ------------------------------ From: Long Duk Dong Subject: Re: UM and BSDR Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 23:20:52 -0700 At 21:01 29.08.96 -0700, Christine Du Bois wrote: >Also, what's happening with the fan club? Are Sandra and Trudy still >involved? (What nice gals!) As far as I know, the fan club is now handled exclusively by Mrs.= Wafflehead.=20 The addresses are: Mrs. Wafflehead PO Box 1854 London W10 4ZA England Mrs. Wafflehead PO Box 426 Malverne, New York 11565-0426 USA The Wafflehead Web Site is: http://remus.rutgers.edu/~woj/fegmaniax/wafflehead.html >And is RH still co-habitating with Cynthia in DC and the Isle of Wight? His new squeeze is Mich=E8le Noach, to whom _Mossy Liquor_ and _Moss Elixir_ owe their lives. She also took the pics. Hope this helps, --g "We make a living by what we get=20 but we make a life by what we give" --Winston Churchill ********************************************************* It's back! New look, new links, new attitude! * Come find out about The Man, The Myths, The Mysteries at * http://metro.net/glen/ * Coming soon: My humour archives! * ********************************************************* ------------------------------ From: Long Duk Dong Subject: Re: Q Review, etc. Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 23:20:49 -0700 At 23:06 29.08.96 EDT, Doc wrote: >-Sid Griffith Is this the country-rock historian Sid Griffith who was a member of the Long Ryders and who wrote a biography of Gram Parsons? A man of superb taste, I must say... Cheers, --g "We make a living by what we get but we make a life by what we give" --Winston Churchill ********************************************************* It's back! New look, new links, new attitude! * Come find out about The Man, The Myths, The Mysteries at * http://metro.net/glen/ * Coming soon: My humour archives! * ********************************************************* ------------------------------ From: Long Duk Dong Subject: Re: Robyn's Business Degree, flushed down the rocknroll toilet Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 23:20:46 -0700 At 22:34 29.08.96 -0400, BLATZMAN@aol.com wrote: >I believe the following could have been bigger than some of his most popular >singles: > >1)Tell me about Yer drugs (come on!) >2) Watch Yer Intelgence >3) BIRDSHEAD!!!!!!!! (relegated to total obscurity) >4) Alright Yeah (old Version, should have been released w/Respect) >5) Devil's Radio (With real rock and roll production baby) >6) De Chirico Street (same) I always heard the following as singles: "I Wanna Destroy You" "Kingdom of Love" "Positive Vibrations" "Queen of Eyes" (The greatest song Roger McGuinn never recorded) "Airscape" (maybe if it had had a different title) "52 Stations" "America" "Arms Of Love" "I'm Only You" "Strawberry Mind" "City Of Shame" "Falling Leaves" The Elixir version of "DeChirico Street" might actually have a chance, along with "Beautiful Queen". Warner Bros. could also release the Liquor version of "Devil's Radio" as a single. It's not unusual for the single version of a song to differ from the album version. IMHO, --g "We make a living by what we get but we make a life by what we give" --Winston Churchill ********************************************************* It's back! New look, new links, new attitude! * Come find out about The Man, The Myths, The Mysteries at * http://metro.net/glen/ * Coming soon: My humour archives! * ********************************************************* ------------------------------ From: HAMISH_SIMPSON@HP-UnitedKingdom-om4.om.hp.com Date: Fri, 30 Aug 96 10:13:32 +0100 Subject: Re: Q Review, etc. NO, that would be Sid GriffiN of the Long Ryders. Hamish (the smart arse who has two of their albums and by the way he now sings with Sid Griffin and the Cole Porters) >_____________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ >Subject: Re: Q Review, etc. >Author: Non-HP-owner-fegmaniax (owner-fegmaniax@clairseach.ecto.org) at >HP-UnitedKingdom,mimegw1 >Date: 30/08/96 07:20 > > >At 23:06 29.08.96 EDT, Doc wrote: > >>-Sid Griffith > >Is this the country-rock historian Sid Griffith who was a member of the Long >Ryders and who wrote a biography of Gram Parsons? > >A man of superb taste, I must say... > >Cheers, > >--g > >"We make a living by what we get >but we make a life by what we give" > --Winston Churchill >********************************************************* >It's back! New look, new links, new attitude! * >Come find out about The Man, The Myths, The Mysteries at * >http://metro.net/glen/ * >Coming soon: My humour archives! * >********************************************************* > ------------------------------ From: HAMISH_SIMPSON@HP-UnitedKingdom-om4.om.hp.com Date: Fri, 30 Aug 96 10:23:23 +0100 Subject: Re: Robyn's Business Degree, flushed down the rocknroll to Item Subject: cc:Mail Text I don't want to get on to the pompous artist thing, but isn't the reason we like him because he is an artist with a (relatively) individual style. I'm not saying you're wrong BLATMAN, I know I tend to prefer song of the more catchy songs (Flesh No 1, Yip Song, etc.), but I prefer to let him do it his own way (or at least criticise quietly in case he hears me and takes it to heart). (Place where smiley would be in anyone else's post.) Possibly related or not. I have been in three bands to date and the present one is the one which has made the least efforts towards being famous (due to careers, families, cheese & wine parties, suburbia, etc.) and has been the most successful. To date we have supported Martin Stephenson (Newcastle folkie of some fame), Geno Washington (of Dexys Midnight Runners "Oh Geno" fame) and we are now booked to support the Buzzcocks (of just being famous fame). I'm not sure if I'm actually trying to get a point across or just gloating. (Votes anyone.) Hamish (the smug) ------------------------------ From: firstcat@lsli.com Date: Fri, 30 Aug 96 08:35:54 Subject: Still need vinyl? If anyone is still looking for the ML lp, there are a couple of copies to be had in Houston from Soundwaves on Westheimer and Montrose...they do mail order.... ...anyone got the former HRH Di's phone number...I figured I'd offer to console her.... Jay ------------------------------------- Jay Lyall Channel Sales Director Livermore Software Laboratories, Intl. 2825 Wilcrest, Suite 160 Houston, Texas 77042-3358 1-713-974-3274 jay@lsli.com Date: 8/30/96 "I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals; I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants." --A. Whitney Brown ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 10:34:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Eugene Subject: My first RH... Someone mentioned their first RH record, and it made me think how odd it is that I fell in love with the first RH I heard: it was someone sort of tape collection of odds and ends, it had Dr. Sticky, Hear My Brane, Have a Heart Betty, Listening to the Higsons (original wok version), Nightmare (a songs from Kimberly Rew's Bible of Pop), it was a mix of rare Robyn stuff, most likely fairly hard to find at the time (1990). It's esspecially odd because other music I was into was stuff like Aerosmith and Motley Crue. I think I might have been into Jethro Tull a lot too, actually. Either way, I was heavy into the Crue, and it's amazing how imediately I fell in love with Robyn, and that I wasn't listening to anything even remotely similar. Just a thought. Bye. -Eugene ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tipper Gore said to Lou Reed, "Lou Reed, how can we communicate better with our children?" Lou Reed responded, "We would probably have to sit down and talk about it over a bottle of scotch, and maybe, some crack." It's back! My lovely Humor Home page: http://hamp.hampshire.edu/~ebmF92 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 96 08:18:00 -0800 From: Russ Reynolds Subject: Brewing Moss Elixir >what'll it be? Fuller's ESB or Fuller's Summer Ale?... make mine ESB! has there been any more to the idea of a Moss Elixir homebrew recipe? I'd like to have something ready by the time Hitchcock starts his US Tour. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 10:24:20 -0500 From: Bret Bolton Subject: Re: Brewing Moss Elixir At 08:18 AM 8/30/96 -0800, you wrote: >>what'll it be? Fuller's ESB or Fuller's Summer Ale?... > >make mine ESB! > >has there been any more to the idea of a Moss Elixir homebrew recipe? I'd >like to have something ready by the time Hitchcock starts his US Tour. When I think of Moss Elixir, the first thing that comes to mind is a porter, (when is the tour anyway if it's in the winter then we are set.) or a stout with molassas in the recipe.....if you want I'll make up a recipe for a stout ( a new one with molassas) and post it to the list if some-one else wants to brew it (i am moving very soon, and don't want to attempt to move a fermemting carboy through the mountains...is there a faster way to kill yeast? )......hmmmmmm I'm getting thristy just thinking about it......... what you think?????? stout??????? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 96 09:33:00 -0800 From: Russ Reynolds Subject: Re: Brewing Moss Elixir >I've got a couple of Stout recepies that use Irish Moss....if you want to >go that route > >Jay Well, I'm kind of partial to english style bitters, but I like the idea of using Irish Moss. I guess I wouldn't have a problem with having a couple of cases of stout around the house...if it's a good recipe (which I assume it is) x x ) -rr ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 12:13:24 -0500 From: kenster@MIT.EDU (Ken Ostrander) Subject: critics hit the fans (potential flame content) ok, mr. blatzman i just need to know. do you like robyn at all? how can you even stand to listen to the terrible mixes and singles that could have been? my big question is WHO CARES? i mean, so what if he never gets the popularity all of the critics seem to agree that he deserves. the same critics who, for the most part, have given him more credit than you. by the way, he has had some 'hit singles' and people have heard of him. hell, he's got his second major label deal. "what's to gain?" you ask? i really don't think popularity is up there on his list. it's not that he isn't recognized or a success just because you didn't get to mix the album. personally, i like being able to find his albums and get into his concerts and even have a few words with the man. i couldn't care less if he never broadened his fan base. i know deep down inside that most of us feel this way too. if he got popular, it would drive me crazy. i love his quarky charm and his (mostly) loyal fans. i'm not saying that you can't criticize the man. that's everyone's perogative. but you are the numero uno whiner on this list. i have seen nothing but negative feedback from you. your compliments are merely small parts of overall nasty complaints. there's got to be an entire album that you like. MOSS ELIXIR is a good album. the more i listen to it (i don't have a turntable at work so it's ipso facto the version i listen to most often) the more i like it. even 'de chirico street'. the version of 'the devil's radio' is infectious. it's a strong album damnit and there may yet be a single to prove you wrong and to put this list on the map. ken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 11:10:26 -0500 (CDT) From: sdodge@inforel.com (Susan Dodge) Subject: Re: Robyn's Business Degree, flushed down the rocknroll toilet Blatzman effused: >Ah yes, business and art. What to think of it. If Robyn were a businessman, >he would be broke. He is a bad decision maker. He will always the artist who >let the big ones go. Given proper production and exposure, I believe the >following could have been bigger than some of his most popular singles: > His what? You must be speaking in relative terms! >1)Tell me about Yer drugs (come on!) >2) Watch Yer Intelgence >3) BIRDSHEAD!!!!!!!! (relegated to total obscurity) >4) Alright Yeah (old Version, should have been released w/Respect) >5) Devil's Radio (With real rock and roll production baby) >6) De Chirico Street (same) > >All these could have been monster singles. Actually, I have to agree with you. Tell Me About Your Drugs would have made a fabulous single. I'm less sure about Watch Your Intelligence, but I think it could have been a good single too. Why it was buried on the b-side of a 12 inch single I'll never know. But Birdshead- don't get me wrong, it's lovely, but it isn't exactly a smash single type of song. I kinda think Devil's Coachman would have made an interesting single- the song's own merits aside, I think the protests from the Christian Right would have stirred up enough publicity to put it way over the top :). >PLUS!!!! Respective albums could have been strengthened by adding the >following: > >1) Globe of Frogs Electric >2) Ruling Class >3) September Cones >4) Wide Open Star >5) And of course all the songs stated above that didn't make the cut. May I add Surgery, You've Got, and Skull/Suitcase to this list? Those always stood out for me as songs that deserved a better fate than to be stuck on compilations of "leftovers". >Stupid business decisions. > >B:-)L:-)A:-)T:-)M:-)A:-)N > >And please people, if you disagree with me, send it to the list. I've been >getting some very condescending hate mail from free speech champions who >aren't happy with my point of view. I know, its great fun to spit on >somebody when nobody's watching. Beware minority, the majority won't >hesitate to PERSONALLY disparage you. I understand how you feel, I've gotten this type of mail too and it does seem rather gutless to send baseless personal attacks to one person rather than the list (assuming that this is the case). The senders of these types of attacks usually get attacked themselves when they post them to the whole feg community, after all, and mailing the attacks privately does seem like a strategy to avoid the calumny the attackers will bring upon their heads. But a statement like "send it to the list" does seem to be like issuing an invitation to another flame-war, and I don't know if everyone's really ready to deal with another one so soon after the last one. Besides, having received attacks both private and public since joining the list, I'd have to say I prefer the private ones- the private ones I can just kill and only I see them- they are only annoying to me, not to the 300 other listmembers, the vast majority of whom really couldn't care less what one other listmember thinks of my taste in music or views on free speech :). Susan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 12:24:04 -0500 From: mlang@inch.com (Steven Matrick) Subject: The Loud Family- Interbabe Concern Since this list has been quiet and I publish the results of the poll (almost 40 people have voted!!!!) on Monday, I thought I would recommend what is surely the best album of this year (thus far): The Loud Family's Interbabe Concern. Anyone who has ever heard Game Theory or the Loud Family knows what a great songwriter Scott Miller is; I always consider him one of Robyn Hitchcock's true peers, though Scott's catalogue is smaller but more consistent. Anyway, Interbabe Concern is a solid hour of dense, complicated song structures, amazing both lyrically and sonically. Interbabe Concern is on Alias Records and for some reason is easiest to find at Border's books, though most Towers should have it by now. I haven't been this impressed by a record on first listen since Exile in Guyville..... They are on tour in the month of September so check em out in a town near you.... I am psyched because Robyn will be in New York on October 14th and then the next day Richard Thompson comes in!!! Steven Matrick The Favorite Color ______________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________ __ From: Long Duk Dong Subject: Re: Brewing Moss Elixir Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 09:28:34 -0700 At 10:24 30.08.96 -0500, Bret Bolton wrote: >When I think of Moss Elixir, the first thing that comes to mind is a porter, >(when is the tour anyway if it's in the winter then we are set.) or a stout >with molassas in the recipe.....if you want I'll make up a recipe for a >stout ( a new one with molassas) and post it to the list if some-one else >wants to brew it (i am moving very soon, and don't want to attempt to move a >fermemting carboy through the mountains...is there a faster way to kill >yeast? )......hmmmmmm I'm getting thristy just thinking about it......... > >what you think?????? stout??????? I had a porter in mind, myself. If you want to make up the recipe, I would be willing to brew it (with the help of a couple other Bay Area fegs, obviously). Keep me posted, --g "We make a living by what we get but we make a life by what we give" --Winston Churchill ********************************************************* It's back! New look, new links, new attitude! * Come find out about The Man, The Myths, The Mysteries at * http://metro.net/glen/ * Coming soon: My humour archives! * ********************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 11:30:23 -0500 From: Bret Bolton Subject: Re: Brewing Moss Elixir At 09:33 AM 8/30/96 -0800, you wrote: >>I've got a couple of Stout recepies that use Irish Moss....if you want to >>go that route >> >>Jay > >Well, I'm kind of partial to english style bitters, but I like the idea of >using Irish Moss. I guess I wouldn't have a problem with having a couple of >cases of stout around the house...if it's a good recipe (which I assume it >is) I'll get one up to the list tuesday, and see what else we end up with...... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 12:08:25 -0500 (CDT) From: sdodge@inforel.com (Susan Dodge) Subject: Re: critics hit the fans (potential flame content) >ok, mr. blatzman i just need to know. do you like robyn at all? how can >you even stand to listen to the terrible mixes and singles that could have >been? my big question is WHO CARES? i mean, so what if he never gets the >popularity all of the critics seem to agree that he deserves. the same >critics who, for the most part, have given him more credit than you. This is a little unfair. Of course he likes Robyn, he wouldn't have joined the list otherwise. I don't get the impression that Mr. Blatzmann is worried about Robyn's popularity quotient, merely that he was expressing the opinion that some songs might have made better singles than others or might have overall improved the quality of certain albums if included. I think this is perfectly reasonable and in fact I happen to agree with him on this- I fail to see how this is any sort of damning criticism on his part, really- some people like some songs, and some people are partial to others. It's the nature of the beast :). by >the way, he has had some 'hit singles' and people have heard of him. hell, >he's got his second major label deal. "what's to gain?" you ask? i really >don't think popularity is up there on his list. it's not that he isn't >recognized or a success just because you didn't get to mix the album. >personally, i like being able to find his albums and get into his concerts >and even have a few words with the man. i couldn't care less if he never >broadened his fan base. i know deep down inside that most of us feel this >way too. if he got popular, it would drive me crazy. i love his quarky >charm Would that be strangeness, beauty, or charm, chum? :) As I read it (correct me if I'm wrong)- you seem to be saying that it's ok if he's only so popular (people have heard of him) and no more (nothing goes platinum). I can't say I really agree with this either. IMHO, it would be perfectly cool with me if the whole world turned onto Robyn. It wouldn't necessarily mean he'd have to change at all. Rather that the whole world would have to become a whole lot cooler and more discerning in their musical choices. This probably will never happen, so I don't think there's any need to worry :), and again, I don't think Mr. Blatzmann is really preoccupied with this notion. i'm not saying that you can't criticize >the man. that's everyone's perogative. but you are the numero uno whiner >on this list. i have seen nothing but negative feedback from you. your >compliments are merely small parts of overall nasty complaints. there's >got to be an entire album that you like. I'm sure there is. Mr. Blatzmann, the ball is in your court :). > MOSS ELIXIR is a good album. the more i listen to it (i don't have >a turntable at work so it's ipso facto the version i listen to most often) >the more i like it. even 'de chirico street'. the version of 'the devil's >radio' is infectious. it's a strong album damnit and there may yet be a >single to prove you wrong and to put this list on the map. But I thought you didn't WANT this list on the map :). Anyway, as solid as ME is (and I enjoy it much more than I do Respect), I highly doubt it's going to be Robyn's "breakthrough" album- it may just be that too much time has passed for there to ever be a Robyn "breakthrough" record. But if new fans are won over and eventually discover the pleasures of "Eye" or "Element of Light" or even the Soft Boys stuff, it would be a happy happy thing. I guess what I'm saying is, yeah, it's solid, but no one would claim it's the best Hitchcock album ever (though I know we'd all disagree as to what that is! :))- the best thing that could happen is that someone who hears a catchy tune they like on the radio and picks up ME will eventually be curious enough to pick up some of Robyn's other work. And finally- yes, ME is a solid album, but it is also flawed and if we can't discuss its flaws here, where CAN we discuss them? It's not like anyone else in the world is so passionately interested :). No need to come the acid drop just cause you don't agree with someone's opinion, we're all in the same boat here really. > > ken Susan ------------------------------ From: Long Duk Dong Subject: Groovy Dec*y Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 10:18:45 -0700 fegs, Since the discussion about the merits of _Groovy Dec*y_ began a few days ago, I have listened to them several times. I have the vinyl version of _Groovy Decay_ on Albion and the CD of _Groovy Decoy_ on Midnight Music. I must say, I think Decoy is a great album. Not great in the sense of being one of Robyn's best, but great in that it is very enjoyable and listenable. Remember, some bands' best still doesn't match up to some of Robyn's worst. I think it was an attempt to make Robyn commercial. The sound is definitely dated, but the songs are on par with, if not better than, anything else Robyn has written. _Groovy Dec*y_ brings up another question: Has any other artist, dissatisfied with an earlier-released product, re-released a totally remixed, resequenced version of the album? Album sequels, such as Meatloaf's "Bat Out Of Hell II" and Neil Young's "Harvest Moon" don't count. I think Peter Gabriel did something along those lines with _Security_ and the soundtrack to _Birdy_, didn't he? Health and happiness, --g " " --Marcel Marceau ********************************************************* It's back! New look, new links, new attitude! * Come find out about The Man, The Myths, The Mysteries at * http://metro.net/glen/ * Coming soon: My humour archives! * ********************************************************* ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Brewing Moss Elixir Date: Fri, 30 Aug 96 10:33:24 -0700 From: Tom Clark >>what you think?????? stout??????? > >I had a porter in mind, myself. If you want to make up the recipe, I would >be willing to brew it (with the help of a couple other Bay Area fegs, >obviously). >Keep me posted, >--g Sounds like fun. I'll donate my counterflow wort chiller to the project! I think we should think of some other Robyn-like ingredients to add. I'll start the bidding with: Prawns! -tc ************************************* * Tom Clark * Apple Computer, Inc. "Do you really serve the Devil * tclark@apple.com If it's all God's plan? * tclark@netgate.net Good and evil need each other * www.netgate.net/~tclark Honey I'm your man" * -Robyn Hitchcock ************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 13:05:00 -0600 From: mbrage@surgery.bsd.uchicago.edu (Michael Brage) Subject: Re: Brewing Moss Elixir tc wrote: >Sounds like fun. I'll donate my counterflow wort chiller to the project! >I think we should think of some other Robyn-like ingredients to add. >I'll start the bidding with: Prawns! > I thought about prawns too. It just sounds so Robyn-like. Yet, it will take delicate balancing with the hops and malts before it will come out right. I have had great success flavoring beers with teas. I used beets, too, in a brew that my spouse had conceived (it was a bit odd). If there is a vote, I would favor an english bitter. How many HBUs should we go for? I'll be able to brew the beer once a recipe is agreed upon. THis sounds fun. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 96 11:32:00 -0800 From: Russ Reynolds Subject: Re: Groovy Dec*y >_Groovy Dec*y_ brings up another question: Has any other artist, >dissatisfied with an earlier-released product, re-released a totally >remixed, resequenced version of the album? Album sequels, such as >Meatloaf's >"Bat Out Of Hell II" and Neil Young's "Harvest Moon" don't count. I think Frank Zappa diddled with all of his early Verve albums before he released them on CD on his own label. But I believe he kept the song orders the same. I can attest to the fact that "We're Only In It For The Money" sounded very noticably different. As far as I know, however, Frank was about the only person on the planet who thought that particular record needed fixing. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 14:15:28 -0500 From: mlang@inch.com (Steven Matrick) Subject: Album Poll Results I was going to post this on Monday but I am leaving work now and said Friday was the deadline, so what the heck.........: DrumRoll 1. I Often Dream of Trains 314 2. Element of Light 257 3. Eye 235 4. Underwater Moonlight 229 5. Fegmania 168 6. Black Snake Diamond Role 127 7. Respect 125 8. Queen Elvis 97 9. Globe of Frogs 87 10. Invisible Hitchcock 81 11. Perspex Island 76 12. Gotta Let This Hen Out 56 13. You & Oblivion 49 14. Invisible Hits 42 15. Can of Bees 40 16. Groovy Decoy 38 17. Eaten by her Own Dinner 15 18 Kershaw Sessions 13 19. Portland Arms 9 20. Raw Cuts 3 This commentary is optional reading and will hopefully not offend anyone as it does include my OPINIONS: There are several things I must say about this poll. What made it so much fun is that each and every one of you that voted really did influence the poll. I reordered the records each time a person's votes were factored in. Since a vote for the #1 album was worth 15 points and #2 worth ten points, the people who picked Respect or even Gotta Let This Hen Out, had a drastic change in its position and that is what music appreciation is about. The love that you have for your favorite record was properly shown by it getting a whopping fifteen points. When the poll started out, I was shocked by how much Underwater Moonlight was giving I Often Dream of Trains a run for its money. Then more and more people voted for Element of Light thus dropping Underwater Moonlight down until it had to fight back and forth with Eye throughout the rest of the poll (eventually just barely losing that fight). The top five records were so far out in front of the rest because they were chosen as favorite records far more as #1 than any of the other records. One of the things this poll shows for me is there is a sort of objectivity that one can gain from consensus. I personally would never hesitate to insist that I Often Dream of Trains is Robyn's greatest album and if this poll hasn't verified that, it has at least shown that I Often Dream of Trains is Robyn Hitchcock fans' favorite Robyn Hitchcock record- which does mean something. Element of Light, eventually had no problem solidifying itself in second place. Sometimes I enjoy Element of Light more simply because it is easier to listen to and has Airscape, Robyn's best song/recording on it. This poll also made me want to go back and re-evaluate Underwater Moonlight simply because my own order was IODOT, EOL, Eye, BSDR, UM. But what truly amazed me was that the order that I would put the Egyptian albums in: Element of Light Fegmania Respect Queen Elvis Globe of Frogs Perspex Island Gotta Let this Hen Out. AND THAT WAS EXACTLY THE ORDER THEY CAME IN. How strange... Maybe I was meant to do this poll... :) or could this be the TRUTH???? :) I must reiterate one more thing: You people have really shortchanged Groovy Decoy: I had it as my sixth favorite RH record. I urge all of you to listen to it again. I think this might have something to do with the stupid way the release has the two versions of the albums mushed together. It is Robyn's dance record!!! So put it on and dance away and move it up and if this poll is ever done again, it better not be at the absolute bottom. Last note: People who voted for Moss Elixir/Mossy Liquor, I had to ignore those votes because as I said (and most people agreed), we are not in a proper position to judge it yet. I also said no bootlegs but added up the tallies for the one who voted for them anyway. I know this isn't fair/doesn't make sense. But I did my best and I think the system I chose worked really well Enjoy. This was Aaron Sparrow's idea. Steven Matrick The Favorite Color People who voted: Steven Matrick Russ Reynolds Dmitri Gokhman Daniel Saunders Ryan Godfrey Tim Bugbee Mike Godwin Aaron Sparrow TchdnJesus Bill Rooney shane brashear Susan Dodge LordK Tom Clark Alex Wettreich Khoi Huynh Doug Mayo-Wells Ken Ostrander George Spigot Lorrie Burnell Ken Frankel Miles Goosens James Francis Jim Moore Susan Even Terry Marks David Witzany Bayard Ross Overbury woj Blatzman rxbroome EB Vashty Hawkins ______________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________ __ ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Q Review, etc. Date: Fri, 30 Aug 96 11:27:51 -0700 From: Tom Clark Doc Ponders: >Erum...is it just me or is there just a huge amount of overanalysis goin' on >over the album? I mean, there are bits that grind on me and all...but >jeez...it's so friggin' good that it just don't matter at the end of the day. >Is there anyone out there that just likes the way the music hits their >soul, no >matter what? Absolutely! This album is like that dirt weed that I used to get in High School - it sneaks up on you! After listening to it all week here in my little veal-fattening pen, I've found myself humming bits and pieces of almost every song, and enjoying it. What really helps in appreciating any new album is to listen to straight through three or four times, then put the CD player on "shuffle". It's Friday! -tc ------------------------------ From: firstcat@lsli.com Date: Fri, 30 Aug 96 13:24:30 Subject: Re: Brewing Moss Elixir OK so who is organize the Mossy Elixor beer tree....send two empty bottles to your limb who will brew for five leaves....with a central receipe and ingredients comming from a funded trunk.... Jay --- On Fri, 30 Aug 96 09:33:00 -0800 Russ Reynolds wrote: >>I've got a couple of Stout recepies that use Irish Moss....if you want to >>go that route >> >>Jay > >Well, I'm kind of partial to english style bitters, but I like the idea of >using Irish Moss. I guess I wouldn't have a problem with having a couple of >cases of stout around the house...if it's a good recipe (which I assume it >is) > >x -----------------End of Original Message----------------- ------------------------------------- Jay Lyall Channel Sales Director Livermore Software Laboratories, Intl. 2825 Wilcrest, Suite 160 Houston, Texas 77042-3358 1-713-974-3274 jay@lsli.com Date: 8/30/96 "I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals; I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants." --A. Whitney Brown ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 15:04:57 -0500 From: "Gene Hopstetter, Jr." Subject: Zappa (was Groovy Dec*y) Russ said: >I think Frank Zappa diddled with all of his early Verve albums before he >released them on CD on his own label. But I believe he kept the song orders >the same. I can attest to the fact that "We're Only In It For The Money" >sounded very noticably different. As far as I know, however, Frank was >about the only person on the planet who thought that particular record >needed fixing. Welp, as for "We're Only In It For The Money" Frank re-did the bass and drum tracks for that CD because they had deterioriated so badly on the original acetate that he thought it wouldn't sound good mastered as is. IMNSHO he should have left it alone. I've heard the remastered CD and will not buy it, being familiar with the original Verve recording. However, I hear tell there is a new CD of "WOIIFTM" with the original mix. Can anybody confirm this? I've read Robyn saying he prefers Captain Beefheart's music over Zappa's, because he felt Beefheart was more authentic and Zappa was more of a put-on, which I think is pretty weird. Seems to me the Soft Boys and the Mothers of Invention aren't terribly different in their aesthetics, approach, and their subject matter. "Somebody's got a case of the punks..." -- Captain Beefheart ------------------------------ From: candl@lewiston.com Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 12:45:32 -0800 Subject: Heliotrope my love.... Heliotrope my love.... While drifting off to sleep a few nights ago, I started pondering on this tune. A beautiful song (although the lack of the backround harmonies on Elixir reminds me of the similar problem with Anthology II's 'Strawberry Fields' demo, another beautiful song in which the absense of the original backround vocals is felt), I let me semi-conscious state suggest meaning to it... the amazing thing is the actual structure of the tune. First, the sun, numeralogically/kabbalistically, is related to the number 6. Count the feet of the first line: 6 syllables. This metrical foot forms the basis of the song: Heliotrope my love (6), her face to the heavens (6) her petals all around her dial (8, suggesting infinity, 'all around her dial'?) her shadow follows her (6), it looks like a seven (6, also seven follows six) and I'm as loaded as a gun (8 again, but lyrically referring to a 'six-shooter'?) The first chorus then breaks meter of the verse: she worships the sun (5) she worships the su-u-u-u-un (9) the song follows this structure, except for the later choruses, where the six-footed metre reestablishes itself at the choruses resolution: she-ee worships the sun (6)! Notice this resolution comes after the prominent descending guitar part. The guitar line seems a bit flub, forced, or out of place (especially in the last verse, where he misses a string) but in standing out, it's like robyn's reminding us of ANOTHER aspect of 6: the number of strings on his guitar!! I'll tell ya, it's amazing what the mind can come up with in that twilight state between sleep and consciousness!!! 'Can you dig it, man?' cheers, y'all 'Isaac Newton' (the BIG fig!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 96 13:43:00 -0800 From: Russ Reynolds Subject: Appreciating Moss Elixir Tom C. advised: >What really helps in appreciating any new album is to listen to straight >through three or four times, then put the CD player on "shuffle". absolutely right. I find that ME provides a good percentage of the more enjoyable tracks when lumped with just about any four other discs in "shuffle" mode. Yesterday "You And Oblivion" came up between Dylan's "Stuck inside of Mobile With The Memphis Blues Again" and Neil Young's "Tell Me Why"...definitely sounded like it was in the same league. -rr ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 16:52:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Bayard Subject: the fans hit the critic > >you even stand to listen to the terrible mixes and singles that could have > >been? my big question is WHO CARES? i mean, so what if he never gets the > >popularity all of the critics seem to agree that he deserves. the same > >critics who, for the most part, have given him more credit than you. > > This is a little unfair. Of course he likes Robyn, he wouldn't have joined > the list otherwise. [...] Yeah, he likes Robyn. He just doesn't like us. A question for you, Mr David Santos Blatzman: how are the posts from your detractors any more relevant/less annoying than any other post that is not 100% interesting to 100% of the list, eg: Tabs. Lyrics. Tour Information. My posts. Your posts. Posts with 0-99% Robyn content. This post. Friendly talk. Flames. You're REQUESTING that people post off-topic! I thought you only wanted to read robyn info each day, not clutter the list with irrelvant self-referential stuff. Make up yer mind! IMO we should can the self-consciousness and self-analysis and just get on with it. Fuck censorship, those who don't like what others have to say can learn to use a killfile, switch to digest and DEAL with it. That's the last I'M going to say about it-- post or reply email, but I'm not going to post about this again. bayard PS. I believe RH is perfectly happy not being "popular", and if he's happy, I'm happy. ------------------------------ From: "Aaron J. Sparrow" Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 18:03:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Zappa + Moss > I've read Robyn saying he prefers Captain Beefheart's music over > Zappa's Personally, I don't think either one of them holds a candle to Brian Wilson. :) As for potential singles from Moss Elixir, I'd be curious to see how "Sinister But She Was Happy" would fare. Robyn's singles have tended to be fairly conservative selections. The result has been moderate success, but certainly nothing chart-busting. Now that he has a fairly sizable, loyal fan base, it might not be a bad idea to take a riskier strategy, such as releasing a song that may not be a perfect little pop gem, but is likely to cause your average radio listener to take notice (for better or for worse). Sort of like the suggestion someone made about "The Devil's Coachman". Aaron Aaron J. Sparrow Research Assistant Population Studies Center The Urban Institute 2100 M Street, NW Washington, DC 20037 (202) 857-8510 ------------------------------ From: MCINTYRE@pa.msu.edu Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 15:16:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: re: Groovy Dec*y >From: Long Duk Dong >_Groovy Dec*y_ brings up another question: Has any other artist, >dissatisfied with an earlier-released product, re-released a totally >remixed, resequenced version of the album? Album sequels, such as Meatloaf's >"Bat Out Of Hell II" and Neil Young's "Harvest Moon" don't count. Back around 1965 or so Eric Andersen released an album called _About Changes And Things_. It was recorded with just his vocals and guitar. (He was one of them "New York folk singers".) Shortly after its release, he started playing concerts with a second guitarist and a bassist. He felt the additional instrumentation improved the songs so much that he re-recorded the album and released it as _About Changes And Things Take Two_. There are two different versions of Bob Dylan's _Blood On The Tracks_, one recorded I think in Minnesota while the one currently in print was recorded in New York. (I could have the cities and the order wrong, but there was one version that was briefly marketed and then he rerecorded the whole thing.) John McIntyre Physics - Astronomy Domine Dept Michigan State University mcintyre@pa.msu.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The End of this Fegmaniax Digest. *sob* .