From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org To: fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org Reply-To: fegmaniax@ecto.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org Subject: Feg Digest V4 #154 Fegmaniax Digest Volume 4 Number 154 Send posts to fegmaniax@ecto.org Send subscribe/unsubscribe commands to majordomo@ecto.org Send comments, etc. to the listowner at owner-fegmaniax@ecto.org FegMANIAX! Web Page: http://remus.rutgers.edu/~woj/fegmaniax/ Archives are available at http://archive.uwp.edu/pub/music/lists/fegmaniax/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Today's Topics: ------- ------- Re: Moss Elixir - diggin' it sort of THIS IS ROBYN'S LIST, INNIT? Seligman, Dolby & the Camera Club Re: Moss Elixir - diggin' it sort of Re: THIS IS ROBYN'S LIST, INNIT? ripoff vs tribute?????? pre perspex again (sorry) Re: Lamp Post Strikes Again Re: Select review Susan is the Almighty Birdshead! ripoffs and assorted other comments sorry! ------------------------------ From: "professor ned" Subject: Re: Moss Elixir - diggin' it sort of Date: Mon, 19 Aug 96 19:20:21 -0500 In message Jordan M Anderson writes: > I finally laid my hands on Moss Elixir and the criticisms I've read > lately surprise me... > Robyn is having so much fun on DeCherico St. but I don't care for the > arrangement (sound familiar?). Try the "Mossy Liquor" version, if you have the chance. I heard 'Liquor' first, and thought DeCherico was great; I heard the 'art-horn' version on the disc and recoiled in horror... In fact, the 'Liquor' versions all tend to prevail in my book, excepting perhaps "Heliotrope" which seems to benefit from the production on the CD. Just imagine, "The Devil's Radio" - sans annoying wah-wah guitar! It's a beautiful thing. Perhaps the reason the 'Liquor' versions sound more Robyn is the fact that they're supposedly demo/rough takes (by and large); you get a feel more like that of "Trains" or "Eye", and so the record fits in more with his solo progression. 'Elixir' seems to be half Egyptians, half solo, as though it can't quite make up its mind. Whatever happened to his sax attitude cf. 'Decay/Decoy', anyways? > Has anyone else noticed that Robyn seems to be getting happier and > happier photograph-wise over the years? As anyone who saw the last solo tour can probably attest, Robyn Hitchock and Paul McCartney are in fact the same person. Mayhaps the smiles increase as the facade fades? -ned -- ..and finally, this heartwarming thought: We are all doomed, but some of us are more doomed than others. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 08:38:29 +0800 (SST) From: Kevin M Mathews Subject: THIS IS ROBYN'S LIST, INNIT? Hey, people ... PEOPLE ... get a grip! Sure, for all those Brian-lovers ( meself included ), it's tough to understand how anyone could diss HIS work but hey, there's no accounting for taste. But, I think, the whole thing has got too much out of hand. I think the rule should be that you can say " I don't like Brian Wilson's music " and leave it at that. But to go and and denigrate his talent, place in history etc etc is strictly no-no. I mean did Mr Cooper really believe he could have got away with his remarks? In my experience, Brian-fans are deeply passionate about their icon and take no crap, so to speak. It's sad that thirty years on, Brian still has to struggle to receive his due recognition ... guess he was right when he sang - I just Wasn't Made For These Times. Let's go back talking about Robyn, shall we - I suspect he's feeling pretty left out and YES I believe that PI is one of Robyn's best work - so what if it was a bit more acessible? Sheesh! Cheers, Kevin. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:05:46 +1200 From: james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan) Subject: Seligman, Dolby & the Camera Club The following message recently cropped up on the XTC mailing list, with mention of two Hitchcock cohorts, so I thought I'd pass it on here for your edification and perusal... James --- From: bc263@scn.org (Byron Keathe Wright) Simon Sleightholm posted in #2-146: >"it seems that Video Killed the Radio Star was first released by "Bruce >Wooley and the Camera Club", a band that featured Wooley, Downes and Horn, >and a then unknown keyboard player by the name of Thomas Dolby." "Camera >Club was primarily Bruce Wooley's group...Thomas Dolby did some synth work >for them...and i read somewhere that vocalist/ guitarist Andy Partridge of >XTC was somehow involved." >Anybody know anything about this? Yeah, actually. Since I own one of perhaps ten copies ever sold of this 1979 album (and I say that with no snobbery whatsoever, but rather with disgust, because it's a damn fine intelligent "Rock 'n' Roll" album that should have seen more light of day), I thought I'd chime in. The band featured David Birch on guitar, Rod Johnson on drums, Matthew Seligman on bass, Tom Dolby on keyboards (yes, that's how he's listed), and of course Woolley's voice. Woolley also wrote or cowrote every song on the album, including the Dolby solo instrumental track "W.W.9". That's just fine with me, having bought the album despite Dolby's presence on it. Horn and Downes appear only as coauthors of "Video Killed the Radio Star" and "Clean/Clean" (along with "W.W.9" the weakest tracks on the album; coincidence? I have my doubts!). A great guitar album with solid and powerful riffing, "Bruce Woolley and the Camera Club" (album and band title) is nonetheless delicate at times and slightly quirky, very much a product of its time, sounding nothing like XTC and yet fitting well alongside their wonderful first two or three or, say, Bill Nelson's Red Noise release "Sound On Sound" (signaling clever Nelson's "Revolt Into Style"). Although Woolley, Horn, and Downes cowrote "Video" for this album, it was the inferior Woolley-free version produced by Horn and Downes as the Buggles which would initiate Empty Vee into our addled collective consciousness. I love the album and highly recommend it. But one caveat: if you're not like me and you actually enjoy the work of Tom Dolby, you may not like its bite (no one will ever confuse it with the Stooges "Raw Power" or whatnot, but it does "rock" nicely at times, and it must certainly be the least wimpy release the science-blinded Dolby was ever involved with). However, any of you inclined to track it down may encounter difficulty; I snagged my used-but-mint copy as a pup back in '83 or '84, and it was already a rare find by that time. And this was all pretty much pre-CD; I seriously doubt BWatCC was ever released on CD. Unfortunately for all of you, I don't have dubbing capabilities for vinyl at this time.[...] - Keathe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 21:17:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Jordan M Anderson Subject: Re: Moss Elixir - diggin' it sort of Excerpts from internet.music.fegmaniax: 19-Aug-96 Re: Moss Elixir - diggin' i.. by "professor ned"@tc.umn.e > As anyone who saw the last solo tour can probably attest, Robyn Hitchock > and Paul McCartney are in fact the same person. Mayhaps the smiles > increase as the facade fades? Sans McCartney theory, my feeling exactly. Jordan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 17:33:42 -0900 From: BC-Radio@corecom.net (Brett Cooper) Subject: Re: THIS IS ROBYN'S LIST, INNIT? > Hey, people ... PEOPLE ... get a grip! Sure, for all >those Brian-lovers ( meself included ), it's tough to understand how anyone >could diss HIS work but hey, there's no accounting for taste. There's no "taste" about it. It's just a matter of record. > But, I think, the whole thing has got too much out >of hand. I agree wholeheartedly. I can't believe my initial comment about Wilson sparked so much debate. I won't make any apologies for my opinion, though. >I think the rule should be that you can say " I don't like Brian >Wilson's music " and leave it at that. But to go and and denigrate his >talent, place in history etc etc is strictly no-no. Not really. I was simply expressing my opinion in the way that I saw fit as I would hope that anyone else on this list would. I will say, however, that I hope I haven't alienated everyone. It's just that when folks attack my OPINION, I retaliate. I guess I have too much belief in the freedom *and* the rights of the individual. Brian Wilson has the right to write music just like he always has. I have the right to tear it down if I want to. >I mean did Mr Cooper >really believe he could have got away with his remarks? In my experience, >Brian-fans are deeply passionate about their icon and take no crap, so to >speak. I can see where you're coming from on that angle. I guess I would defend Alice Cooper or Robyn to the grave if someone tried to spit on their works as well. So, if you look at it from that point of view, I apologize. > It's sad that thirty years on, Brian still has to >struggle to receive his due recognition ... guess he was right when he sang >- I just Wasn't Made For These Times. That's what all the great artists throughout history have had to endure. Good Lord! Did I almost give Wilson a compliment? (It was inentional) You guys never let me say which songs of Wilson I liked even though I don't hold the man in the highest regard. > Let's go back talking about Robyn, shall we - I >suspect he's feeling pretty left out and YES I believe that PI is one of >Robyn's best work - so what if it was a bit more acessible? Sheesh! > Cheers, Kevin. Again, I agree. I want to talk about Robyn from here out, and this is the last that I will write about Brian Wilson and the controversy. But for a while there during this debate, this list *almost* became a true American forum for the expression of points of view. Too bad it has to become so linear again. And personally, my favorite Robyn album is "Queen Elvis"! Be seeing you... Brett ------------------------------ From: BLATZMAN@aol.com Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 22:49:25 -0400 Subject: ripoff vs tribute?????? HA HA HA HA, that has to be a joke, right? And what happens when an artist rips himself off? Self tribute? If that's the case, Robyn must really love himself Anyone else break out into Autum Sea at the beginning of Speed Of Things????? ------------------------------ From: BLATZMAN@aol.com Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 22:50:17 -0400 Subject: pre perspex again (sorry) It's time for that fabulous new game show "let's put words in your mouth!!!" First observation, writing songs using other people's guitar sounds, or vocal inflections, doesn't mean that you're not writing a song cause you have to. If you have to write something, you have a thought that you need to get out. WHO CARES if brilliant innovation coincides with that need. They are totally separate. WHO CARES if he chooses Neil Young sounding guitars. Maybe he's trying to pinpoint a feeling more accurately, cause he knows what these sounds do to him. Huh? WHO CARES if he wanted a song to sound like Love. Does that diminish the content for a moment??? No Way,man I like this one: "And lastly, just because someone experiences very real and dramatic emotions does not in any way mean that they are all of a sudden overflowing with organic inspiration to create" Thank you, I never said they were. But in our man's case, death has found a far more serious place in his music. Oh yes, I can count all those "dead Pa" songs prior to Respect. I guess I was a bit vague. Robyn's songwriting has become more obviously personal. I think you turn to personal subject matter cause you have to. And if you deliver it like Richard Butler, so what... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 19:59:49 -0700 From: gondola@deltanet.com (E.B.) Subject: Re: Lamp Post Strikes Again >Re Brian Wilson: Is there a "This correspondence is now closed" option in >your moderator's >wardrobe? (I found some fur coats and - what's this? a LAMP POST? - in mine)... I dunno...I've really enjoyed reading the recent BW posts myself, even the...um...ill-informed ones. This is the most lively I've seen the list in the few months that I've subscribed. It's not all that fun reading the Moss/Mossy posts, because NOBODY seems to really love or hate the album -- everybody's just in the middle: "Ehhh, I'll give it a B+." The Wilson debate has a refreshing passion that's lacking elsewhere, IMO. :) >i remember once hearing a cover of the smiths "bigmouth strikes again" in >ukranian, by a band called the ukranians, who were, strangely enough, from >hull or leeds or some other english town with one syllable....... I'm not sure of the exact details, but I know the Ukranians have some sort of personnel connection with the Wedding Present. Speaking of artists who never get their due.... Eric ------------------------------ From: HAMISH_SIMPSON@HP-UnitedKingdom-om4.om.hp.com Date: Tue, 20 Aug 96 09:45:24 +0100 Subject: Re: Select review Is it possible that this was by the Wedding Present (from Leeds) who did some Ukranian stuff? Hamish >_____________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ >Subject: Re: Select review >Author: Non-HP-owner-fegmaniax (owner-fegmaniax@clairseach.ecto.org) at >HP-UnitedKingdom,shargw1 >Date: 19/08/96 18:04 > > > >i remember once hearing a cover of the smiths "bigmouth strikes again" in >ukranian, by a band called the ukranians, who were, strangely enough, from >hull or leeds or some other english town with one syllable....... ------------------------------ From: RxBroome@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 05:12:40 -0400 Subject: Susan is the Almighty Birdshead! Although she recently flambed* me, and she hates my beloved "Perspex Island" and is indifferent to Brian Wilson, Susan has again become my hero on this list for the following reasons: 1) She had something good to say about "Dr. Byrds & Mr. Hyde". 2) She was the first of many to note that "Connection" by Elastica IS "Three Girl Rhumba" by Wire, albeit in a much more prosaic form. Some call it a tribute. Fine; I invite them to compare "Lineup" by Elastica to "I Am the Fly" by Wire... and that song on the "Trainspotting" soundtrack by Elastica to "Being Sucked In Again" by, yep, you guessed it, Wire. Three strikes, it's a ripoff. Only Menswe@r, whose "Daydreamer" is the same song as "Lowdown", beat out Elastica for Wire-ripoffish-ness, and that's only because their (male) vocalist does a better Colin Newman than Justine Frischman (but only just). 3) She is disturbed by a potential conflict between Robyn's tour dates and those of Jonathan Richman, indicating exquisite artistic preferences as a human being, the aforementioned aversions the B. Wilson and "Perspex" notwithstanding. And on "Perspex", which I maintain to be the "pop-masterpiece-that-someone-had-to-write-at-the-time-so-we-should-just-shut- up-and-be-happy-it-was-Robyn" of the '80's, I was fascinated by Robyn's own assessment of it: "It's an album that sounds nice and bland and you can drive to it, it's not aimed at people who've heard of Morrisey and that sort of thing". Bless my fecund soul-- with the exception of the word "bland", this sounds like a ringing endorsement!!! Rex * nb: if this looks like a typo, it is supposed to be "flambed" with an accent aigu over the "e", not a misspelling of "flamed". ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 01:16:35 -0500 (CDT) From: sdodge@inforel.com (Susan Dodge) Subject: ripoffs and assorted other comments yes, of course my comment about the difference between ripoffs and tributes was a joke :). As for what happens when an artist self-plagiarizes, well, ask John Fogerty. He was sued by his former record company, Fantasy, for doing just that on his song "Old Man Down The Road"! Finally a comment about the Brian Wilson debacle- Brett, where was it written that a true American opinion democratic blah blah blah had to be so derned personal and hostile (I indict myself on this charge as well, so don't get huffy :))? Or even that a true democratic forum was of necessity American? We have people from other democratic countries on this list as well, you know :). But I digress. Anyway, everyone's entitled to their opinion obviously, and no one said you had to like Brian Wilson or even walk around in sackcloth and ashes for a week because you don't. Similarly, I don't think I should have to because I disagree with you (especially about the Bernie Taupin thing, but we can argue that privately if you wish :):)). However, I guess none of this really matters, since like the song says it's all over now, baby blue. Good thing too. And again, I'm sorry for whatever part I have played in the ongoing hostility. Susan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 01:22:05 -0500 (CDT) From: sdodge@inforel.com (Susan Dodge) Subject: sorry! It seems I may have accidentally resent a list message back to the list. I'm still having trouble getting the hang of my new SLIP account and the corresponding software, so please pardon me if this did actually happen. It shouldn't again, as I think I've figured out what my mistake was. Sorry! Susan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The End of this Fegmaniax Digest. *sob* .