From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org To: fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org Reply-To: fegmaniax@ecto.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org Subject: Feg Digest V4 #153 Fegmaniax Digest Volume 4 Number 153 Send posts to fegmaniax@ecto.org Send subscribe/unsubscribe commands to majordomo@ecto.org Send comments, etc. to the listowner at owner-fegmaniax@ecto.org FegMANIAX! Web Page: http://remus.rutgers.edu/~woj/fegmaniax/ Archives are available at http://archive.uwp.edu/pub/music/lists/fegmaniax/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Today's Topics: ------- ------- Re: Dispair, thy name is saxophone Re: Wilson Car 5woz, where are you? Re: Dispair, thy name is saxophone Re: Dispair, thy name is saxophone National Debate and Forensics League RE: Embrodiered [sic] threads Re: pre-Perspex, reply to Blatzman coupla questions Responding to a gifted critic's opinions... (right) Mossy Liquor Livia, of Livia, have you seen Livia, Dennis Wilson's brother Re: Select review Re: ripoffs, perspex, and diverse and sundry opinions Re: Dennis Wilson's brother Re: ripoffs (non-Robyn) Brian Wilson Alarming Fanzine Trash Stick a fork in me Beach Boys (no bile) (nor Robyn content) Apology Re: Beach Boys (no bile) (nor Robyn content) Moss Elixir - diggin' it sort of Re: Tom bad vibrations Raging Controversy online chat ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 12:13:27 +0100 (BST) From: M R Godwin Subject: Re: Dispair, thy name is saxophone Hi Nick I was going to post my reel thorts on this album, same as everyone else. The trouble is, I agree 100% with you, even down to the bit about the new fegs being disappointed when they buy 'Alright Yeah' as a smash single and come to the album expecting more of the same. A totally 'acoustic' album would have worked better, or one like those old Everlys LPs with a 'party' side and a 'smooch' side... A couple of extra points: It is more of a death album than most. Every time I listen to it, bits remind me of Songs for Drella, another death album which has great moments without really holding together as a record that you could sit all the way through. I was listening to ME while there was a TV documentary on featuring a vault full of semi-embalmed bodies in Palermo, and it all made perfect sense at the time... Someone singled out the Penny Lane horn sound on Beautiful Queen as a good thing. I'm afraid it ruins the track for me: too much of an arch McCartney/Martin quote - sorry. - Mike Godwin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 13:04:28 +0100 (BST) From: M R Godwin Subject: Re: Wilson On Mon, 19 Aug 1996, E.B. wrote: > Oh, don't get me wrong, I think Love is great. I just wouldn't rank Arthur > Lee THAT high on the list of all-time songwriters (like top 5). As a matter of interest, who are your top 5? > And don't > forget he has put out an awful lot of mediocre work.... Ah, that's a good debating point. Does the fact that someone writes 300 crap songs devalue the one good one? 1000 crap songs? one more than that? I don't think that the existence of Singing Cowboy ("got a lassoo in your hand but you'll never understand") affects whether "Andmoreagain" is a hot song. Robyn Hitchcock writes plenty of rotten songs but he is still a great songwriter, je pense . . . Cheers - Mike PS I thought that Lloyd Cole was really promising at one time, but he doesn't seem to have sustained his early promise. ------------------------------ From: LORDK@library.phila.gov Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 9:22:50 -0400 (EDT) CC: LORDK@library.phila.gov Subject: Car 5woz, where are you? Darlings, I know Im half to blame with my Taupin/tampon ridiculious and low blow pun--but please--lets stop eating ourselves. One thing I love about this list is its basic friendliness. Shallwe, or Woz, perhaps, call a moritorium on any slow grillings on the barbeque--and ban all petty mentions of wilsons or tampons for at least 3 months(if I knew how to make a smiley i would). K ------------------------------ From: "professor ned" Subject: Re: Dispair, thy name is saxophone Date: Mon, 19 Aug 96 09:21:48 -0500 In message M R Godwin writes: > A totally 'acoustic' album would have worked better, or one like > those old Everlys LPs with a 'party' side and a 'smooch' side... Agreed. "Mossy Liquor" held together much better, methinks, right down to the song order... -- ..and finally, this heartwarming thought: We are all doomed, but some of us are more doomed than others. ------------------------------ From: ZeroSummer@aol.com Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 10:49:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Dispair, thy name is saxophone >>> It is more of a death album than most. Every time I listen to it, bits remind me of Songs for Drella, another death album which has great moments without really holding together as a record that you could sit all the way through. <<< Actually, Songs for Drella is a favorite of mine to sit all the way through, as opposed to albums you play a few songs from in a sitting. I get more out of it in full. (Oh no! No Robyn content! And I didn't warn you!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 96 09:55:00 -0500 From: Jim Moore Subject: National Debate and Forensics League "Who died and made you President of the National Debate and Forensics League? For your future reference, when you show that more people agree with you, it gives your statement/opinion more weight with numbers to back it up and shows that you're not just a minority. While it may be a relatively small group that agrees with me that Brian Wilson isn't as gifted as people make him out to be, it makes my claim more empirical just that tiny bit more." ======================================================== Actually, this is what's called a "logical fallacy". Trying to "win" an argument by saying something like, "everyone I've ever talked to agrees with me" -- or even if you could say something like, "all the Rhodes Scholars in the world agree with my opinion" is in essence no better than saying, "well, you have to be wrong because you're so stupid". It really has nothing to do with the argument, logically. I could tell everyone that I speak as a doctoral student in philosophy (a true statement), which would probably help my argument in some people's eyes -- but I would be guilty of the same fallacy. The point is that might doesn't make right, and just because everybody (or even a group of well-respected people) agrees that something is "better" than something else doesn't mean that it actually is. All you have to do to "prove" this is to look at the pop charts and see who's selling all those millions of albums! All this is said in the spirit of kindness, just trying to help extinguish the flames a bit... Blessings, not curses, Jim Moore guambat@juno.com, or jimm@dbu.edu ------------------------------ From: Livia Subject: RE: Embrodiered [sic] threads Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 08:25:11 -0700 LORDK wrote >Im one of those hoplessly verbal people for whom the words count. Then maybe you should learn how to spell and punctuate them. ------------------------------ From: "Aaron J. Sparrow" Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 11:31:19 -0500 Subject: Re: pre-Perspex, reply to Blatzman > Oh yes, the old glory days of Vegetable Friend and Give Me A Spanner, Ralph. > Respect of course was dedicated to his dead father. Basically a painfully > honest album about love, relationships, life and death. Perhaps more honest > than anything he'd ever written before. And that loss is still reflected on > the new album... Sorry dude, but Respect was the album he had to write. > People write about prawns cause they WANT to, and they write about loss cause > they have to First of all, I hardly find "Vegetable Friend" or "Give Me a Spanner, Ralph" extremely representative of Robyn's pre-Perspex years. Secondly, Robyn himself said that when he wrote "The Wreck of the Arthur Lee", he had been listening to old Love songs, and deliberately wrote "The Wreck..." to sound like an Arthur Lee song. Furthermore, this seems to be a theme in Robyn's recent music, what with "I am Not Me" sounding like it came straight from a Neil Young album, and "Then You're Dust" bearing more than a strong resemblance to Chris Isaak's music. Not that Hitchcock's music never resembled other artists' in the past, but whereas he was always heavily influenced by Lennon and Barrett, he never, to my knowledge, intentionally wrote songs to sound like they might have written them. And lastly, just because someone experiences very real and dramatic emotions does not in any way mean that they are all of a sudden overflowing with organic inspiration to create. When I made the distinction between what Hitchcock had to write and what he wanted to write, I was referring first and foremost to the music itself, not to the subject matter of the lyrics. Back in the Soft Boys days, half his songs may have been about crabs and carcasses, but the guy had music flowing out his every orifice! Look, I'm not trying to knock Respect. I think it's a fine album, and in no way do I mean to imply that Robyn's emotions when writing that album were in any way disingenuous. (Though I think he's written many more heartfelt songs about death than "Then You're Dust".) All I'm saying is I don't hear the same energy and enthusiasm in the recent music that pervaded it before. A lot of critics seem to think he's more mature now that he's not singing about crabs. Personally, I never thought of any of his music as immature. And it's certainly not the case that Respect was the first album where Robyn sang about heartfelt emotions like love and loss and life and death. Aaron ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 11:59:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Bayard Subject: coupla questions > about this list is its basic friendliness. Shallwe, or Woz, perhaps, now now, it's bad enough everyone capitalizing the poor man's name, please remember he's "woj" and pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! > call a moritorium on any slow grillings on the barbeque--and ban all this reminds me, i've been thinking of holding a feg-cd-release party to celebrate the cd being done (when it's done... in a few weeks?) Would anyone be interested, aside from the usual local suspects? now the questions: I have a DAT of what sounds to be a soft boys reunion. the first few songs are destroy you, queen of eyes, tomorrow never knows and give it to the soft boys.. i think in that order. before they start robyn issues a disclaimer about how they're mostly old songs and they havent played together in a while so they'll have to keep referring back to each other. during destroy you robyn gives verbal cues to let the others know how many times to repeast the chorus. what is the date of this show? also, what are the dates of the shows on _rout of the clones_? bayard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 12:11:59 -0400 From: Rich Rosen Subject: Responding to a gifted critic's opinions... (right) > From: BC-Radio@corecom.net (Brett Cooper) > Subject: Brian Wilson (my final word) > > Look, I think my unflattering opinion of Brian Wilson started all of this. > I've been sitting back and listening to all of this crap about how great he > is and what-not, and it's getting OLD! First off, to the fella who quoted > me and THEN proceeded to ask me if I had ever heard "Pet Sounds", the > answer is YES. In fact, I own "Pet Sounds." Good start to a solid collection of high points in the history of rock music. What else do you "own?" (Note the difference between "owning" an album and having actually listened to it...) > My initial point was this: > While Wilson's songs are timeless due to the era that they were written in, Gee, I wish I understood this statement: "timeless due to the era that they were written in?" What did this mean? All songs from the 60s are timeless because they were written in the 60s? Or some specific year from the 60s? Are songs from the 70s or 80s also timeless due to the era in which THEY were written? I wish this sentence of yours made sense so I could understand what point you were trying to make. > it still doesn't help the fact that Brian Wilson CANNOT be taken seriously > as an artist. OK, well I guess I and all the others (John Cale, Paul McCartney, Holsapple and Stamey, to name a few) that DO take him seriously, some of whom are even (God forbid) influenced by him, will have to stop, now that you have made this IMPORTANT declaration. > If you put Wilson up against muscians like Leonard Cohen, > Bernie Taupin, Randy Newman, David Byrne, Robyn Hitchcock, and Tom Petty, > Brian Wilson just shrivels away like a dip in cold water. Tom Petty. Tom Petty. Tom Petty. Oh, I'm sorry, I repeat the words I type when I can't stop laughing. :-) Tom Petty. OK, I'll stop now. While Petty is a decent songwriter and his band has performed some very good tunes, he is neither original NOR a great songwriter (or musician) of any lasting import. In fact, Petty acknowledges that he is influenced by a number of musicians (ever heard of Roger McGuinn? do you "own" an album by the Byrds, too?), including (guess who?) Brian Wilson. But I think it's very telling that you list a rather derivative artist (although certainly a good one) among the "great and influential". It reveals a lot about your knowledge of music history. > I think he writes drivel. I'm sorry, that's my opinion. Yes, that is your opinion, and you are sorry. It's one thing to say that YOU don't like the music, but quite another to make the very STUPID pronouncements you make about how Wilson CANNOT be taken seriously. Others here have even said that, while THEY don't like his music themselves, they recognize his influence and his talent. Can you find it within yourself to possess that much objectivity in your avocation of music critic? Sure doesn't seem that way. I'm somehow reminded of Lester Bangs' statement about the Velvet Underground (do you "own" any of THEIR albums?). In commenting on how seemingly thousands of bands cite the Velvets as a primal influence nowadays, he noted that, during the time that VU was actually MAKING its music, most of those same people thought that VU was (in Bangs' own words) "a bunch of faggots who couldn't play their instruments". You, my friend, remind me of those self-same people. Someday, Robyn will give an interview citing Brian Wilson as one of the seminal originators in rock music and a major influence. And you will announce to all of us, in big capital letters, "I OWN PET SOUNDS!!!" But don't worry, I won't be laughing at you when that happens. Because I and everyone else here will probably have forgotten who the hell you were by then anyway... TTFN. -- "It's not an idea for a film, it's my actual life!" Rich Rosen rlr@panix.com http://www.panix.com/~rlr ------------------------------ From: hollie_satterfield@mail.amsinc.com Date: Mon, 19 Aug 96 11:54:45 EST Subject: Mossy Liquor I probably shouldn't say this until Tower delivers my copy, but Music Machine is advertising Mossy Liquor for $10 in the current Goldmine. They may have sold out by the time you read this but they are at 410-356-4567 or e-mail musimac@aol.com. (On the ancient subject of Goths in America, I have to say that during my recent trip to the Kings Dominion amusement park there were junior- high-school-age goths everywhere you looked thanks to the popularity of Marilyn Manson. I might add that they are one of the worst bands I have ever had the displeasure of seeing live, but I digress.) ------------------------------ From: LORDK@library.phila.gov Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 12:35:20 -0400 (EDT) CC: LORDK@library.phila.gov Subject: Livia, of Livia, have you seen Livia, Dear Livia(et al) When I first joined this list-serve I sent out a general caveat stating that I was wildly dyslexic, and that I therefore asked the list-serve as a whole to deal with my posts with charity and generousity towards my handicap--much like one would be kind, and pretend to be blind--to the clumsiness and various odd positions a dwarf might be forced to assume when mounting ahigh stool at a diner's counter. Not learning to readtill 3rd grade(although when I did, it was to speed read, and I promply tore thru all of Dickens), I was often taunted by some of my cruder classmates as to the question of whether I was "retarded" or not. This left, not so much a scar, as an ever seething wound still sensitive to the slightest jarring remark. Which is why I here loose all signs of gentility, modesty, and poise. In short, O aptly named after the empress Livia whose acts of generosity and charity resound thru the annals of history. My IQs 148, what the fucjks yours. Yes, I know that was very naughty of me. Is there some possible adverse aspect from Mars afflicting this listerve? Bradleys barbeque seems right on the mark. Slightly put-out K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 17:50:48 +0100 (BST) From: M R Godwin Subject: Dennis Wilson's brother Dear woj Help! Some of us don't like Brian Wilson and others do. Is there a "This correspondence is now closed" option in your moderator's wardrobe? (I found some fur coats and - what's this? a LAMP POST? - in mine)... Otherwise I see no option but to request that the list be split into 1) A Robyn Hitchcock and 'Hurray for Brian Wilson' list 2) A Robyn Hitchcock and 'Boo to Brian Wilson' list That way maybe all this unpleasantness could be avoided. - Mike Godwin PS Yes, I know I've contributed to it, but it's getting out of hand. PPS Meanwhile . . . it's very cold here. There's a whole glade of trees opening out beyond the lamp post, and I think I can make out some tracks. Some of them look like the hind legs of a goat - but why would a goat be walking on two legs? Perhaps Lucy was telling the truth after all . . . ------------------------------ From: TchdnJesus@aol.com Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 13:04:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Select review In a message dated 96-08-17 14:25:48 EDT, glen@net5.com writes: >At 18:32 16.08.96 +0100, rkarstro@cap.se wrote: >> Hang on! Here's a possible new thread!!! The swedish band John Lenin >> (they were not allowed to call themselves John Lennon, and with a few >> hardcore socialists in the band - and a tounge in their cheeks - they >> changed the name to John Lenin) did record a version of RH's 'Heaven' >> for a single b-side. But they translated the lyrics into Swedish. >> Is there any other cover versions like that? >"My Way" originally had French lyrics and was translated into English by >Paul Anka. "It's Now Or Never" began life as "O Sole Mio". English into >another language? Can't think of any that were covers. Some artists >(Beatles, Sting, Peter Gabriel) have recorded their own songs in other >languagees, but I don't think that counts. i remember once hearing a cover of the smiths "bigmouth strikes again" in ukranian, by a band called the ukranians, who were, strangely enough, from hull or leeds or some other english town with one syllable....... ------------------------------ From: TchdnJesus@aol.com Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 13:04:40 -0400 Subject: Re: ripoffs, perspex, and diverse and sundry opinions In a message dated 96-08-17 14:26:14 EDT, glen@net5.com writes: >Which song is "Connection" lifted from? Wire's "Three Girl Rumba." they completely admit it, and say it was on purpose, not some seedy attempt at getting away with something. ------------------------------ From: "Aaron J. Sparrow" Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 13:18:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Dennis Wilson's brother > 1) A Robyn Hitchcock and 'Hurray for Brian Wilson' list Yes, and it could be called "Good, Positive Vibrations". P.S. Please tell me that Brian Wilson did in fact write "Good Vibrations"; otherwise this message will contain not just a bad joke, but a bad and ignorant joke, and that might be too much for my ego to handle. ------------------------------ From: "Aaron J. Sparrow" Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 13:29:24 -0500 Subject: Re: ripoffs (non-Robyn) >>Which song is "Connection" lifted from? > > Wire's "Three Girl Rumba." they completely admit it, and say it was on > purpose, not some seedy attempt at getting away with something. Big of them to admit it, but if they didn't request the rights, isn't that sort of the definition of a ripoff? Aaron ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 13:54:32 -0500 From: mlang@inch.com (Steven Matrick) Subject: Brian Wilson In the let's keep the Brian Wilson discussion alive side of the list, I would just like to add, that I also cannot really get into Brian's music. I even bought Orange Crate Art (promo for a coupla bucks) an couldn't dig it. I wound up buying and later selling Pet Sounds. What I do love though, is the influence Brian had on Andy Partridge and even more specifically the High Llamas, whose Gideon Gaye is a must for any pop music fan. Their new record Hawaii is great too though not as focused. steven Matrick The Favorite Color ------------------------------ Date: 19 Aug 96 14:10:10 EDT From: Alarming fanzine trash <101356.2516@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Alarming Fanzine Trash > Also, to Aidan: when did Robyn call you > 'Alarming fanzine Trash" and in what context? I'm very curious! I phoned Sincere to ask if there was any late-breaking news that should be included in the forthcoming issue of _PVs_. For some reason, Our Man Himself answered the phone. Apparently, the photo on the cover of the last issue was "Too ugly". Er - quite. Re all the current dissing of _Perspex Island_, I think the best description of what's wrong with this album came from Robyn himself: "It's an album that sounds nice and bland and you can drive to it, it's not aimed at people who've heard of Morrisey and that sort of thing". Aidan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 11:41:05 -0800 From: kawhite@pacifier.com (Kristine White) Subject: Stick a fork in me At 08:25 AM 8/19/96 -0700, Livia wrote: >LORDK wrote > >>Im one of those hoplessly verbal people for whom the >words count. > >Then maybe you should learn how to spell and punctuate them. > Yesterday it seemed so cool and everything was fabulous ... In response to the pointless and way-too-personal nit picky exchange about Brian Wilson, to the seemingly-on-the increase number of posts ripping Robyn's various efforts, and most particularly to the above, let me take this opportunity to say, "I quit." I find it hard to believe anyone 'round here wants or needs an in-box full of insult exchanges. I'm sure I won't be missed as I've largely only lurked for the past year or so and I probably should have just slunk away without a word, but I wanted to go on the record to say I have especially enjoyed reading Kay's posts during this time. Now, I'm off to go listen to 'Wafflehead' and enjoy it and not wonder what's wrong with me :) har har :) K.A. White ------------------------------ From: "Aaron J. Sparrow" Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 15:13:52 -0500 Subject: Beach Boys (no bile) (nor Robyn content) OK, I have to admit that this whole Brian Wilson thread, as bitter as it has become at times, has really piqued my interest nonetheless in the Beach Boys. Can someone from the "Hurray for Brian Wilson" crowd recommend a few starter albums for a genuine Beach Boys virgin? I gather from the discussion that "Pet Sounds" is one of the best, but I've been unable to find that in the few record stores I've checked so far. Any other classics? Aaron P.S. You are welcome to email me privately, so as not to rock the boat further. ------------------------------ From: LORDK@library.phila.gov Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 16:00:37 -0400 (EDT) CC: LORDK@library.phila.gov Subject: Apology Karen Whites post has redelivered me to sanity---well, at least maturity.Livia, I apolagize. I am sorry to have taken your justified critisism so badly.Youre right, I cant spell for shit. But nothings going to change that, and unlesseveryone petitions to throw me off-list--you're just going to have to put up with it. Its not under my control. But maybe next time you want to dis somebody, you might consider doing it off-list. Karen--please dont go. Mike Godwin--do you think there's any possibility that Robyn was read alot of Narnia as a child? As for BW, great tunesmith hout I think he be, well, for awhile there, there is no denying he needed a girdle. And Wodjzj and Baejaird--looking forward to the party. Amostly- repentant K who wishes she had showed Sue's grace under pressure. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 17:09:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Roseann Cappella Subject: Re: Beach Boys (no bile) (nor Robyn content) As one who never says too much but enjoys everyone's thoughts and comments, and understands that the list is primarily for RH content, let me say that all music is connected somehow and every musician is important no matter what they contribute. I enjoy it when we branch out from time to time into other subjects...it's educational and enlightening. Bob Weidner ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 15:47:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Jordan M Anderson Subject: Moss Elixir - diggin' it sort of I finally laid my hands on Moss Elixir and the criticisms I've read lately surprise me. My general criticism is that the energy is really lacking in some of the vocals (esp. Alright, Yeah which REALLY suffers from this affliction). Particulars: 1) Robyn is having so much fun on DeCherico St. but I don't care for the arrangement (sound familiar?). 2) Heliotrope shimmers in that little place in my heart reserved for Airscape. 3) This is the first time I heard Speed of Things and I enjoy it. 4) Someone wrote that the lack of drums on I Am Not Me degrades its quality in terms of _rocking_. I disagree. I think the stripped version on My Wife and My Dead Wife REALLY rocks. I like the urgent guitar-driven feel. 5) Has anyone else noticed that Robyn seems to be getting happier and happier photograph-wise over the years? Still 'liquorless' in Pittsburgh, Jordan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 14:44:31 -0700 From: gondola@deltanet.com (E.B.) Subject: Re: Tom >At 21:26 16.08.96 CDT, Truman Peyote wrote: >>The only exception I can think of is ripoffs so blatantly obvious they >boggle the mind and make one furious (such as Elastica's "Connection"- I >didn't have >>much of an opinion of Elastica one way or the other prior to hearing this, >>but the rip is SO blatant that there isn't even a question- as with Peter >>Schilling's "Major Tom". Shame on these people!). Oh yeah, "Major Tom" INFURIATED me. Somewhere, I have a quote clipped from Mr. Schilling in which he says something like, "Oh, it [Major Tom] was just a name that popped into my head. It could've just as easily been Major Jerry..." What a LIAR!!! However, I gotta admit: I adore Wire, but I actually like "Connection" better than "Three Girl Rhumba." Go figure. Not taking the Wilson haters seriously anymore, EB ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 17:54:00 -0400 From: the rumsy gravel in the gales Subject: bad vibrations also sprach M R Godwin : >Is there a "This correspondence is now closed" option in your moderator's >wardrobe? there can be. although i prefer to not have to use it. i don't want to have to police fegmaniax, though i will if i have to. i much prefer for the list to police itself - either by the judicious use of forethought before posting or the judicious use of polite suggestion when things get heated. unfortuantely, i was out of town this past weekend and didn't have the opportunity to step in to break up the fisticuffs. i think mike summed it up well: some of us like music that others dislike and that's no reason to get into a brawl. insults and flames only antagonize those you are debating and annoy those who are lurking (or even drive them off the list as happened with karen). neither of those results are good for the mailing list or your reputation. so. i'm not going to declare a moritorium on talking about brian wilson but i'd ask that people who wish to continue to discuss him do so in less heated tones. also sprach Bayard : >now now, it's bad enough everyone capitalizing the poor man's name, please >remember he's "woj" and pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! right, and it's pronounced "throat warbler mangrove". KwUoRjT ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 17:22:29 -0500 From: JH3 Subject: Raging Controversy Some of you might appreciate this... -------------------------- >From the Associated Pruss: For years now, the debate over the musical merits of the Beach Boys and their leader, Brian Wilson, has sparked a raging controversy both inside and outside of music industry circles. Few have forgotten the incident of March 22, 1993, in which 23 people were killed at a Malibu Beach nightclub after a patron pulled the plug on a jukebox that was playing the Beach Boys' "Wouldn't It Be Nice." Also, the recent stabbing of a 17-year old boy in Akron, Ohio, for allegedly insisting that the song "Hang On to Your Ego" was NOT written by ex-Pixies frontman Frank Black, shows just how violent and divisive the debate has become. Wilson, now aged 72 and an outspoken proponent for the right of overweight senior citizens to surf in the nude on public beaches, seemed utterly incredulous when reached for comment. "Hey, I just wrote a few tunes, it was no big deal," he said, adding, "it was better than what everybody else in L.A. was doing back then -- buying up cheap real estate and selling it years later for enormous profits." Nevertheless, Wilson's work, by all accounts, influenced hundreds, even thousands of songwriters hoping to emulate the Beach Boys' unique vocal harmonies and minimal, yet complex instrumental style. "When I first picked up a guitar, I thought, hey, there really are strings on this thing -- I tried plucking one and it made a noise! I thought, hey, cool, man!" During the early years of his musical career, Wilson and his band were known for their wholesome appearance and clean sound, but during the 1970's Wilson began to experiment with new musical styles, upsetting a great many of his fans. His neo-industrial noise album, "Metal Surf Machine Music," managed to sell only three copies, while his post-punk grunge LP, "Surfbored Nation," set an industry record by being returned by virtually every person who bought one. Wilson also got into trouble with animal rights groups with his on-stage antics, which usually involved killing live fowl in front of horrified audiences. "I just started cooking them less and less, until it got to the point where I just didn't bother," explains Wilson. "When you're up there on that stage you get awfully hungry." Perhaps the most remarkable thing about the recent controversy over Wilson's work is, according to Wilson, where it takes place. "You never read about me in music magazines or fanzines or anyplace like that," he says. "It's only in places where any mention of me is almost completely irrelevant." Still, Wilson is happy that people continue to listen to his work. "Just the other day, some English guy with two slightly impacted front teeth walked up to me and said, 'I really liked that song of yours, "Anarchy in the U.K."' I was going to tell him that I didn't write that one, that I've met the guys who did that song and they're all far more overweight than I ever was, but by the time I got through laughing he was gone. Oh well." ------------------------------------------ And you were wondering how I was going to get some Robyn content in there, weren't you? --John H. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 19:09:29 -0400 From: the rumsy gravel in the gales Subject: online chat Got the following note from brett milano at firefly (www.ffly.com) today. "ipm" is, in fact, 1 pm. i'll forward any other information i find out as soon as possible (like, what the phone number for asking questions is). >From: brettm@agents-inc.com (Brett Milano) >Subject: Hitchcock Online > >Greetings...and nice work on the Fegmaniax page. I wanted to let you know >that we're having an online chat with Robyn on Firefly (www.ffly.com)-- the >time and place are Monday, Aug. 26 at ipm edt. (I book the chats for Firely >and am a huge Robyn fan, so...) > >Please help us spread the word! We want to see the real fans there so we >can have the most enlightening chat we can...And e me if you need to know >anyting else. Firefly is a free site and you won't need any special >equipment to chat. You only have to register and pick an alias (this takes >about 10 mins) and you're in....There will be a chatroom set up for the >interview in the "buzz" area; Robyn will take questions by phone. > >Thanks again... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The End of this Fegmaniax Digest. *sob* .