From: fegmaniax@ecto.org To: fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org Reply-To: fegmaniax@ecto.org Subject: Feg Digest V4 #113 Fegmaniax Digest Volume 4 Number 113 Send posts to fegmaniax@ecto.org Send subscribe/unsubscribe commands to majordomo@ecto.org Send comments, etc. to the listowner at owner-fegmaniax@ecto.org FegMANIAX! Web Page: http://remus.rutgers.edu/~woj/fegmaniax/ Archives are available at http://archive.uwp.edu/pub/music/lists/fegmaniax/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Today's Topics: ------- ------- Re: songs I ate. Re: Middle Eight Middle 8 Tidbits Last Call for Top 5 Lists! Re: Middle Eight Antipathy? Nah...! Re: Last Call for Top 5 Lists! BSDR revisited Re: Middle Eight August 13th Stand Back, Dennis CD daddy miscellaneous stand back, dentist... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 23:59:25 -0400 (EDT) From: ! Subject: Re: songs I ate. On Tue, 18 Jun 1996, James Isaacs wrote: > I cannot find myself hating anything by our man, but there are songs that I > skip over on the CD player when they come up. Every album ever has them > (execpt IODOT). For example: > One Reporters Opinion i can't believe you skip 'reporters opinion!' it's such a *great* track - bursting with melody and cool wordplay. top five robyn track material, without a doubt. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 00:07:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Terrence Marks Subject: Re: Middle Eight On 18 Jun 1996, Sillyme wrote: > For years I've been wondering- what the hell is this MIDDLE EIGHT that New Wave > destroyed but the Soft Boys saved from oblivion? I've been studyi9ng music on > and off for years and never found any mention of it. > > Anybody know the historical signifigance of thsi- Is a it a Blues thing? The middle eight is the 8 bars in the middle of a song that have a different structure than the rest of the song. It's also known as a bridge. The "Ain't no way I'm gonna be" verse of Kingdom of Love is a middle eight, as is the "Here I am again" verse of Queen of Eyes. It is used frequently in blues. Terrence "The Human Mellotron" Marks ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 16:31:15 +1200 (NZST) From: james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan) Subject: Middle 8 Sillyme asked: >For years I've been wondering- what the hell is this MIDDLE EIGHT that >New Wave >destroyed but the Soft Boys saved from oblivion? I've been studyi9ng music on >and off for years and never found any mention of it. > >Anybody know the historical signifigance of thsi- Is a it a Blues thing? silly you! :) Of course someone's bound to explain that (you'll probably get dozens of replies...) The middle eight... a lot of songs are just verse-chorus-verse-chorus-verse-chorus. Some others are verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridging section-verse-chorus. >From the time of blues on, and certainly in rock, the bridging section often lasts eight bars. It is the middle eight. The Beatles used middle eights a lot, and a lot of people have followed THEIR musical lead over the years, including our Robyn. Classic examples include: The Beatles - And I love her: "A love like ours, could never die..." The Beatles - A Hsrd Day's Night: "When I'm home, everything seems to be right..." Robyn Hitchcock - Cynthia Mask: "Oh and I'll sculpt you..." Soft Boys - Insanely Jealous: "This madness that we do..." Robyn Hitchcock - Airscape: "Save your illusions..." Other prominent Robyn middle eights exist in "SYTYIL" and "Rock & Roll Toilet", among others. Sometimes, the dividing line between a middle eight and a chorus is fairly thin (such as in Airscape), but usually you should be able to tell. If a song goes A-B-A-B-C-A-B or A-A-C-A-A, it's pretty obvious. If it goes A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B or A-A-C-A-C-A, then it's less certain. Hope that makes sense. ------------------------------ From: RxBroome@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 01:34:49 -0400 Subject: Tidbits Sorry to be back so soon... just tidbits: A) "Is this some obscure piece of Americana you're using as revenge for Honiton Clyst and perspex?" Perspex I'm clear on (pun intended), but Honiton Clyst has always mystified me. Do tell. B) "Should we also compile a bottom 5 tracks?" Can't say I'd be HAPPY to do so, but I will volunteer to compile such a list, just to keep things even (read: to have this list compiled in the same manner as the Top 5, as a sort of "control"). Let me know if this is of macabre interest to the list at large. C) "> Should we also compile a bottom 5 tracks? hmmmmmm why don't we just make it easy.........the track listing of Queen Elvis..........." Well, MY bottom 5 would be gleaned exclusively from "QE" and "Invisible Hitchcock"... D) Moss Elixir / Mossy Liquor track list: Well, there's too much great stuff on the LP for it not to be digitally bootlegged. This MUST happen. E) As a vote for Bottom 5: "4. Knife ( i know i just freaked out about someone defiling the name of Queen Elvis, but this song is boring. the only stinker in the bunch.)" I LOVE this one, because it's Robyn doing Shakespeare without dropping any names, and because it has his best studio guitar solo. Several "Fegmania!" tracks come close, but this one is the most representative of what I've heard from him live. F) From the "Jet Set Flyer" track list: "Ghostriders in the Sky" "Coward of the County" "Amanda" Horrors! I've played all of these as the substitute bassist for my father's band in West Virginia! I'll be trotting out "Ghostriders" at least for a reunion gig with them in a month or so!!! Who actually was "John Barry"-- not Robyn, please. Any parallel between Robyn and Jim "Coach" Broome would be more than I could handle. G) (Various other opinions re: A&M years) "Globe of Frogs": best, yes, worst, yes... quintessential. "QE": Giant sucking sound. "Eye" (although not A&M): indispensible. "Perspex": Commercial yes, but great. A rare combination. "Respect": Difficult but rewarding. My favorite kind of record. No wonder it's so reviled. Rex ------------------------------ From: RxBroome@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 01:34:21 -0400 Subject: Last Call for Top 5 Lists! Ed quotes E.B. White, thusly: "Understanding humor is like dissecting a live frog. It can be done, but the frog tends to die in the process." whilst making the same argument about lyrical overanalysis that I was making, before having seen his post, when I wrote "Academic-style lyric vivisection is a bit distasteful to me-- reminds me of etc. etc." Well, I found it amusing. One of the Erics writes: "Eh, Oasis? Blur? Forget 'em both and just pick up Teenage Fanclub's "Grand Prix." Better songs and at least the lyrics are intentionally funny at times." Teenage Fanclub is very great, indeed, and vastly underrated; on one level they are to Big Star what Oasis is to the Beatles, but they do bring a little more to mix. Despite all the obvious homages-- they have a song called "Gene Clark" that sounds like Neil Young, fer Chrissakes, and a song that IS "I'll Be Your Mirror"-- things like "Star Sign" from "Bandwagonesque" are rare works of earnest beauty. So, though, is "Live Forever". LAST CALL FOR TOP 5 LISTS!!! When I log on at about 7pm Western Time tomorrow, I'll be downloading the last of the viable lists. Roll up, roll up! Rex ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 10:53:46 +0100 (BST) From: M R Godwin Fegmaniax Subject: Re: Middle Eight On Wed, 19 Jun 1996, Terrence Marks wrote: > The "Ain't no way I'm gonna be" verse of Kingdom of Love is a middle > eight, as is the "Here I am again" verse of Queen of Eyes. That's right! Another good example is the 'Love is all there is, it makes the world go round' bit in Bob Dylan's 'I threw it all away'. > It is used frequently in blues. No it isn't! A typical blues (e.g. Robert Johnson's 'Walking Blues') has a verse with maybe a refrain (repeated line or two) but NO middle 8. If it has a middle 8, it becomes Pop Music, R'n'B or Rock'n'Roll! - Mike Godwin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jun 96 10:42:00 -0500 From: Jim Moore Subject: Antipathy? Nah...! I can't imagine hating ANY of Robyn's stuff, but there are some songs that just don't "do it for me" like the others do. Here are some examples: Cool Bug Rumble Wafflehead Earthly Paradise Knife Bass most of Groovy Decoy Also, August 23rd does not fall on a Tuesday, but August 13th does.... Also, is July 16th the confirmed date for the vinyl release? James "Beaker" Moore jimm@dbu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 12:08:47 -0500 (CDT) From: John Tyson Littlejohn Subject: Re: Last Call for Top 5 Lists! > LAST CALL FOR TOP 5 LISTS!!! When I log on at about 7pm Western Time > tomorrow, I'll be downloading the last of the viable lists. Roll up, roll > up! 1. Driving Aloud 2. Meat 3. Zipper In My Spine 4. Sometimes I Wish I Was A Pretty Girl (GLTHO version) 5. I Watch The Cars ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jun 96 10:21:00 -0500 From: Jim Moore Subject: BSDR revisited I was shocked to learn through the grapevine that perhaps some (or at least one) of you was more than a bit miffed at me for posting the BSDR liner notes from the Rhino reissue. It seems that I came across somehow as antagonistic towards those of you whom have not purchased the reissues. I was so surprised to hear this because my intentions in posting the liner notes couldn't have been further from such an interpretation of my actions. Someone posted the liner notes from one of the reissues that I haven't bought, and I thought that was a very nice gesture (because there's lots of cool info in there). So, I decided to post the liner notes from BSDR because I know that some folks don't have it and would be interested in reading what is written about Robyn therein. It was done with nothing but good thoughts about everyone on this list, and with a sincere desire to add something to the ongoing discussion of Robyn Hitchcock. Heck, I was trying to be nice! So, please, please forgive me if the words I chose somehow mysteriously made it seem like I was slamming some of you. I don't see how that is possible, but then I know sometimes things are said with good intentions, but the meaning is missed because of the medium. Anyway, how could I be upset with some of you for not buying all the reissues when I've only bought three of them myself? Love to all, James "Beaker" Moore jimm@dbu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 09:28:43 -0500 (EST) From: Dolph L Chaney Subject: Re: Middle Eight On 18 Jun 1996, Sillyme wrote: > For years I've been wondering- what the hell is this MIDDLE EIGHT that New Wave > destroyed but the Soft Boys saved from oblivion? I've been studyi9ng music on > and off for years and never found any mention of it. "the BRIDGE... take me to the BRIDGE... has anybody seen the BRIDGE???!? ...where's that confounded BRIDGE?" 8 bars to break up a song's monotony, blah, blah, blah, the other explanations given are more than adequate. My favorite example in all of pop music: "We Can Work It Out", Beatles. The very attractive verse/chorus by Paul, broken by the ominous middle eight by John. Fab! > P.S. anybody out there a fan of Donald Barthelme? You betcha! I just read GREAT DAYS and am in the middle of OVERNIGHT TO DISTANT CITIES (I know the title's incomplete, but I can't remember the rest of it offhand). Truly cool short stories; haven't tried out the novels yet. Dolph ------------------------------ From: SPIFFINGNY@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 11:45:25 -0400 Subject: August 13th Did I screw uo and say the 23rd? I don't think I did but August 13th is the correct day of release. And known to anybody who collects anything (and the dealers) an item is worth only so much as someone is willing to pay, regardless of rarity. There's a copy of Joy Division's STILL in the Minus Zero shop in London, an original copy, worth anywhere between 45 and 60 quid, but it had apparently been there a while, and they were willing to get rid of it for 15. I probably could have walked with it for 10. It's worth more sold for half of what delaers expect than sitting on a shelf. humbly, Carl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 13:01:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Marc Horton Subject: Stand Back, Dennis CD Greetings, all-- I was just wondering if anyone knows anything about the "Stand Back, Dennis" Live bootleg CD, like the track listing or the sound quality, etc. I am thinking of getting it but wanted some fellow fegs' opinions before shelling out the cash. Thanks, Marc Horton / "What happens to the rat that stops running the Diablo Valley College / maze?/ The doctors think it's dumb, when it's just disappointed."--M.Eitzel ------------------------------ From: LORDK@library.phila.gov Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 19:18:13 -0400 (EDT) CC: LORDK@library.phila.gov Subject: daddy Im weeding reference books at the mement, and came upon a nice entry on Raymond hitchcock in --Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers, Vol 2,, by R Reeginal, gale research, 1979. " Full name: Raymond John Hitchcock, born Feb.9,1922, at Calcutta India. Son of John Henry Frederick Hitchcock(a British army officer) and Ruby Hilda Rogers. Married Elizabeth Joyce Watts, Aug 27th, 1949. three children: Robyn rowen(born 1953), Lalage Freya(born 1956),Fleur rowena(born 1963). Education: B>A>, Emmanuel Co., cambridge University, 1948; M>A>. 1955 Career: Writer, artist, cartoonist. with the Royal engineers, 1940-45; Electrical engineer, Cable and Wireless Limited(working on radio frequency allocations, ionospheric propagation, antenna design, and communication satellite projects), 1949-60; cartoonist for Punch, tatler, and other magazines during the early 50s; painter, 1959-65, with 6 one-man exhibitions in London and others; writer, 1969-Date. First professional sale: percy, W>H> Allen, 1969. agent; Curtis brown Lmt., 60 E 56th St. NyNy 10022 member; Instition of Electrical engineers. Intrests; Folk music, archaeology, militatry history, lost causes." I dont know if it might intrest anyone, but I read a bunch of his books when first nibbled by the robyn bug. Percy, for me, was rough going, it was very a la Kingsley Amis, which isnt really my cup of anything. I felt that the heroine was portrayed fairly mysogonistically, which got in the way of my enjoying the fun ideas. there was another book about the young heir to a condom factury which I actually fairly enjoyed. Laughed out loud even. a farce with one conciet which rang true for me, --a virginal heroine who ostentasiously takes the pill so that no one will realize she isnt willing to roll just anyone who fancies her. a ripe blackberry of a girl, if I remember aright. Plus an historical dildo, some magicical powder and a mess of other stuff. then there were a bunch of mysteries. I remember picking up, at times, a real bleak sense of despair, passivity and meloncholy. they were spy type mysteries, or thrillers, and frankly, Ive not read enough of the genre to really know how to judge them. Also a feeling of how strongly affected he'd been by WW2,like so many of that generation. About 4 years ago my mother-in-law died of cancer. at the time I did bibliographic searches into stuff like--cancer and the fammilly, and alternative treatments for cancer. I turned up a book by-- yup... thats right. It was never published in the US, but I got a copy thru librarian connections. things were fairly intense at the time, and I only had it as an unofficial loan, so I skimmed it quickly. seems Raymond had developed cancer, had surgery, things had gone badly, had holistic type treatments, things had gone better, and he had hoped, would continue to do so. Obviously they didnt. What i remember is a sense that the whole expereince had softened him, made him more open to what we youngins tend to call the femminine side. I got the feeling that he was the type to bottle up or deny alot, and part of the treatment was helping him learn to feel more, and be more open with himself, let alone others. I got the feeling that his marriage had not been without its rough spots, to put it gently. He and his wife seemed to have been of fairly differnt temperments-- she outgoing, sociable and energetic, he abit incined to isolation and the black dog. I cant remember exactlly, but I think he talked about, before getting ill, contempalating suicide by hanging himself from a hook that was part of the old mill where the familly lived. Often. it was an ongoing fantasy. the illness seemed to have helped him recover his will to live. It also, again if i remember aright and am not confusing it with some other similar book I read at the time, talked about how it helped make him realize that he needed other people, that he needed help and love. that he wasnt an island. It was a touching book. I remember hoping he would survive. Very little Robyn material, except that it made perfect sense that he had emerged from this familly. Especially the bit about tempermental differnces. Robert graves, in a pre-white Goddess book--made a very good argument for how poets are formed by having two parents who were from two different countries, either literally or metaphoricaly.Joyce Hitchcock, was from an established , large, Friends fammilly who were always talking. I think she ran a clothing shop, or something like that. While the Hitchcocks seemed to have been more stiff upper lip army types. And not in trade. Well, just a thought, or a memory, or a fantasy. I also get the feeling that things might have been abit rough economically. What all this made me curious about is, did Robyn get raised as a Friend, an agnostic/aithiest, an anglican, or something else? Living in Philly, the epicenter of quakerism, I have some close friends who were raised Friends, and all of the males have, shall we say, ambiguities, about things like conflict, hostility, aggressiveness, etc. As I always say---thers *nothing* like a ruined Friends boy. Kay, the working late, no patrons around, bored, bored, bored Cap ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 20:04:13 -0400 From: flaky white stuff Subject: miscellaneous re: release dates. the confusion about _mossy elixir's_ release date came about as a result of the realtime interview. robyn apparently said that the album would come out on the 23rd. warner brother's press release indicates that this is incorrect. it's the 13th, with the vinyl coming out two weeks prior (the end of july - a good birthday present for yours truly, if i do say so myself). re: liner notes. i thought tracy copeland transcribed most, if not all, of the rhino reissue liner notes last year sometime. unfortunately, the computer where they and the rest of the archives currently live (not ecto.org, alas; at least not yet) is, i'm told, temporarily out of commission. (note that the non-mailing list archives on archive.uwp.edu are out of date). re: stand back, dennis. this bootleg is a hissy soundboard recording. i think the source was a fm broadcast, but don't recall for sure. it's been discussed before, so i'm sure someone will remind me. woj ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 18:16:38 -0700 (PDT) From: "Trixie, Bunny, and Peaches" Subject: stand back, dentist... On Wed, 19 Jun 1996, flaky white stuff wrote: > re: stand back, dennis. > > this bootleg is a hissy soundboard recording. i think the source was a > fm broadcast, but don't recall for sure. it's been discussed before, so > i'm sure someone will remind me. > this recording is of decent sound quality. it sounds like listening to a recording taped from the radio in the late 80s, and *surprise* is was. this fact is easily overcome, tho'. although not the best quality bootleg you could buy, it is worth having and i would buy it again. beyond that it has 19 tracks, 17 from a athens, ga concert in 88 and 2 from la radio shows. am i missing anything? .chris ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The End of this Fegmaniax Digest. .