Fegmaniax Digest <==----------==> (Send posts to the list to fegmaniax@nsmx.rutgers.edu) (Send adminstrative commands to majordomo@nsmx.rutgers.edu) (Send comments, etc to the listowner at owner-fegmaniax@nsmx.rutgers.edu) <==----------==> Volume 3 Number 178 Today's Topics: ------- ------ feg ethics, a case study Re: High Notes Flavour of Night (lycros) I Used To Say I Love You (more lycros filmy) tapes to CD Maureen and the Meatpackers Re: She doesn't exit Re: Flavour of Night (lycros) Re: Flavour of Night (lycros) Re: Flavour of Night (lycros) Bootleggers of the world I say, piracy, what? Re: Bootleggers of the world Give it to the Soft Boys Re: Bootleggers of the world RE: Bootleggers of the world RE: Bootleggers of the world Re: Flavour of Night (lycros) booting up Cliquot, clinquant, clickot exception... Re: Flavour of Night (lycros) FW: wonky mail Re: Flavour of Night (lycros) avast ye maties! The meaning, the kingdom and the horse. RE: CD Bootlegs, piracy, etc... Vanilla ice cream body parts RE: exception... part two booting The pirate CD being proposed RE: FW: wonky mail RE: Vanilla ice cream body parts Re: wonky mail ------------------------------ From: jimm@dbu.edu Date: Wed, 8 Nov 95 17:50:07 -0600 To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: feg ethics, a case study In light of our current bootleg thread, I would like to pose the following ethical dilemma: A woman is addicted to Robyn Hitchcock music; she craves it nightly and must have more and more rarities to fulfill her gnawing desire. The only problem is, she (and her husband) are virtually peniless--owing to the fact that her mate was laid off his job as computer programmer on account of the fact that he spent all day on the internet Fegmania discussion list and didn't do his job. So, she has absolutely no way to get her Robyn fix--and if she doesn't have it soon, she'll keel over in a quivering fit of the death throes. In order to save her from the quickly advancing Face of Death (leather jacket and all), her husband sets out at night to somehow procure at least a rare Soft Boys B-side or something. At last, he stumbles across an old used record store that has a copy of "Dark Green Energy" -- a fine song with lovely melodies and lots of jangling guitars--I give it two thumbs up--but the price is $15.00!!! What should he do--steal the CD in order to save his wife's life, or not break the law, but allow his wife to pass into Oblivion? Which is right? Beaker "my beans aren't warm!!!" Moore ------------------------------ Date: 8 Nov 1995 16:13:37 -0800 From: "Mark Gloster" Subject: Re: High Notes To: "Pretty Girls and Anglepoise lam" , "Terry Marks" Reply to: RE>High Notes Many vocalists treat their bodies less like temples than the dumpster out behind the temple, so their voices degrade. I have seen bands in LA go into the studio wherein the lead singer will use (intentionally) a regimen of lemon juice, coffee, and Jack Daniels to get his sound. Others do vocal improvement excercises to continually strengthen and condition their voices. I have heard octogenarians who sing with incredible beauty and have a full octave range over what they did in their twentys. If you want to be a singer, it is a good idea to take lessons as soon as possible from a vocal coach who understands how to preserve your voice. Also, I suggest staying away from those who try to force you to sing any style but your own. I might suggest the CD and booklet by Seth Riggs' "vocal instructor to the stars". If you can get over his need to feel important, the real information and excercises are really good for your voice and allow you to sing in the place between your low and high ranges. You should be able to improve your overall range as well. It is a good idea to have somebody make sure you aren't over stressing your voice when you start out. Robyn content: despite his interest in ciggies and smoky clubs sings better now than ever before (IMHO). It seems that he limits his set lengths more, though. One of the amazing things about Robyn is how he uses his entire (big) range every show, and some songs use most of it. He sings way up on his chirpier songs and he can hit the low E on "Raymond Chandler Evening" every time. Most singers lose their lows if they focus on their highs and vice versa. Not our guy. Robyn can make huge interval steps between notes- no problem- without blinking (he blinks anyway, though). He's just simply amazing. -Markg I know a lot about singing. I just don't always do it so well. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 18:55:38 -0500 (EST) From: dwillem1@IC3.ITHACA.EDU Subject: Flavour of Night (lycros) To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu I haven't seen this posted anywhere, but if it is then that is good. Pure Robyn poetry... ************************************************************************ "Flavour of Night" Long slender shadows pulsating in windows While feathery curtain hide fountains of ice [eyes] >From the light... A different disease in another translation Though you don't understand a familiar sensation But who needs to talk when you're caught in the flavour of night And you Yeah you With your ice-cream hands You Yeah you are my friend All that you want could be happening for you Just like the road that unrolls there before you Tonight... Eyes you don't trust but the fingers have beckoned How long you got left well, how long do you reckon? But who goes to waste when they're tasting the flavour of night And you Yeah you With your ice-cream hands You Yeah you are my friend ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 19:26:52 -0500 (EST) From: dwillem1@IC3.ITHACA.EDU Subject: I Used To Say I Love You (more lycros filmy) To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu "I Used To Say I Love You" I used to say I love you It wasn't really true I wanted to believe it And now I almost do I used to say I love you I said it as a threat Or maybe as a promise To see what I could get But my heart doesn't break anymore No, my heart doesn't ache anymore 'Cause it just couldn't take anymore And I've lost my illusions about you now I used to say I love you It wasn't what I meant What I really meant was Come on in my tent But you were reluctant Although I was so hot Now I understand it But back then I did not But my heart doeasn't wear anymore No, my heart doeasn't care anymore 'Cause my heart isn't there anymore And I've lost my illusions about you now And now if I should see you Or call you on the phone mmmm hmmm I wonder who's that person I could never call my own Although I kind of like you I'll never understand Why I got so excited Each time that we held hands But my heart doesn't feel anymore No, my heart doesn't wheel anymore 'Cause it just isn't real anymore And I've lost my illusions about you now ------------------------------ To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: tapes to CD From: cagedrat@radiowave.com (CAGEDRAT) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 95 21:14:00 -0500 In the topic of putting Robyn and Soft Boys material otherwise unavailable on CD, I was wondering why Mrs. Wafflehead and the whole Robyn Organization Inc did not put "Where are the Prawns?" and the other one (Toth Boys?) on CD? If anyone could do it, wouldn't it be them? For $12.00 a tape it's kinda high but having the Wafflehead tapes on CD, released by themselves on CD, I think many fans would buy them quicker than on tape. RobZ29likesrobynbeatlesxtcsqueezeadvertisinghatestyping Still waiting for Portland Arms to come out! "crackin' toast, Gromit" ------------------------------ To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: Maureen and the Meatpackers From: cagedrat@radiowave.com (CAGEDRAT) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 95 21:39:00 -0500 Does anyone with Bucketful of Brains(robyn on cover-photo from Groovy Decay) Remember an ad, drawn by Robyn, noting the upcoming release of the Maureen and the Meatpackers material. This was about 5 years ago and it was on, I think, the label MOIST(#4?) Was this a parody ad or something seriously considered for release? Captain Quiff aka Rob the Curious "more cheese, Gromit?" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:14:37 +1300 To: The Glass Hotel From: james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan) Subject: Re: She doesn't exit >From: BDWILLEMS@alex.stkate.edu > >Favorite Robyn Song: Mr.Rock and Roll, She Doesn't Exit, She's My Bright "She crawls into my home somedays No matter what I try she stays She doesn't exit! She may look like a hairy lout But with all those angry fish about She doesn't exit! No, if I scream or if I shout Or open doors to push her out Sheeeeeeee doesn't exiiiiitttttt!!!!" (RH, live at the Oldport Legs, Winchester, 1991) James Dignan, Department of Psychology, University of Otago. Ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk St., St. Clair, Dunedin, New Zealand pixelphone james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz / steam megaphone NZ 03-455-7807 * You talk to me as if from a distance * and I reply with impressions chosen from another time, time, time, * from another time (Brian Eno) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 00:12:23 -0500 (EST) From: roLLerCOasTEr boy To: dwillem1@IC3.ITHACA.EDU cc: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: Re: Flavour of Night (lycros) On Wed, 8 Nov 1995 dwillem1@IC3.ITHACA.EDU wrote: > I haven't seen this posted anywhere, but if it is then that is good. > Pure Robyn poetry... > ************************************************************************ > "Flavour of Night" > > And you > Yeah you > With your ice-cream hands alright, i've loved this song for years, but i have also wondered for years, what the HELL are "ice cream hands" ??????? cold and clammy seems a bit of reach. cold and sticky does not fit what i think the mood of the song is. any thoughts? -- curious doug ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 21:44:43 -0800 (PST) From: Glen Uber To: roLLerCOasTEr boy Cc: dwillem1@IC3.ITHACA.EDU, fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: Re: Flavour of Night (lycros) On Thu, 9 Nov 1995, roLLerCOasTEr boy wrote: > alright, i've loved this song for years, but i have also wondered > for years, what the HELL are "ice cream hands" > > ??????? > > cold and clammy seems a bit of reach. > > cold and sticky does not fit what i think the mood of the song is. > > any thoughts? > cold and tasty? maybe Robyn is a hand fetishist.... "sticky wicket isn't cricket" Glen E. Uber "If sometimes you can't hear me, University of Washington it's because sometimes I speak in Department of Linguistics parentheses" Email: hirsute@u.washington.edu --Steven Wright Voice Mail: 206.547.8936 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 01:00:23 -0500 (EST) From: Terry Marks Subject: Re: Flavour of Night (lycros) To: roLLerCOasTEr boy Cc: dwillem1@IC3.ITHACA.EDU, fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu > alright, i've loved this song for years, but i have also wondered > for years, what the HELL are "ice cream hands" > ??????? > cold and clammy seems a bit of reach. > cold and sticky does not fit what i think the mood of the song is. > any thoughts? I think (and DO NOT FLAME ME FOR THIS. Especially if whatever you're trying to say involves my age and inference that because I'm younger than some of you, I'm also less capable than the rest of you) that it's just sort of Robyn's mind scurrying for a two-syllable word to stuff into the lyrics and finding one that sounds really good. He does this fairly often ("Mr. ROck'N'Roll", "Wey Wey Hep Uh Hole", "Cheese You","Fiend Before The Shrine", "Star of Hairs", "Vegetable Friend"), just sort of making up these really odd rhymes and lines that fit tenuously together, but sound great when sung. (or dead) Terry "Have a Heart, I'm not Fireproof" Marks ------------------------------ From: BLATZMAN@aol.com Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 03:40:00 -0500 To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: Bootleggers of the world This whole issue sounds like a bunch of Hipocrisy. No one shouts at the list when we discuss bootlegs. Or compile a tape of UNRELEASED material. How many of you own his "next" album? Is the "Netsurfer Ghost" more palatable because it's analog and not digital? If you want to pretend money is the issue, go ahead. I just hope you don't own Netsurfer ghost, which of course Robyn doesn't see a penny of. But I guess that's okay cause you didn't "buy" it. You get to enjoy his hard work, and he sees nothing. The end result to Robyn is the same, regardless of whether or not you bought your bootleg/unreleased live recording/tape a friend compiled for you. We all own unauthorized material. We all trade it freely. I see nothing wrong with this digital project. We're all participating in illegal taping already. We're already all "bootleggers" of some sort, we just have lousy equipment. I say go for it. Try to transfer it at cost, so there are no royalties. That way nobody profits off the music. Just like Netsurfer Ghost! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 10:02:17 GMT From: Jim Davies To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: I say, piracy, what? > On Tue, 8 Nov 1995, The Inhuman Mellotron wrote: I say, hold on a moment... > > ...What money? The recordings in question are not > > commercially available. > > If the Soft Boys were selling it, we wouldn't go around proposing > > bootlegs, but they aren't. Barraging the record company with > > requests very probably won't work. Anyways, what's being proposed > > is merely moving things from tape to CD... > Horseshit. Look. This sort of cheap abuse isn't going to get us anywhere (if you want to cast nasturtiums, use the expensive ones). > And that's not even the point. > But if this "fan" actually profits from his slimey venture, that would > compound the inherent dirtiness of it all. Time out, as I believe people might say on the other side of the Atlantic, and relax. Much as I like the idea of a slimey venture, I don't believe that this is what is being proposed. My guess, and it's only a guess, is that if no-one was making a profit and you paid `royalties' and you could guarantee that distribution was controlled then Robyn would be merely irritated, as opposed to *really angry*. The suggestion that we try to persuade the Wafflehead operation to release something on CD is a good one. If there is a demand, and they have the resources to meet it, then this is the best solution. Is anyone volunteering to write to Mushi with a proposal? Jim ( Incidentally, I wouldn't dismiss the legal consequences of this, however unlikely they may seem. ) ------- End of forwarded message ------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 10:16:36 GMT From: Jim Davies To: BLATZMAN@aol.com Cc: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: Re: Bootleggers of the world Whoa! More abuse. Bad spelling and CAPS too. Watch out! This whole issue sounds like a bunch of Hipocrisy. No one shouts at the list when we discuss bootlegs. Or compile a tape of UNRELEASED material. Not hypocrisy. Simply a lack of interest. It's not worth making a fuss about. How many of you own his "next" album? Is the "Netsurfer Ghost" more palatable because it's analog and not digital? Yes, actually. Jim ( please don't let this degrade into a flame war, it would be really dull ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:35:10 +0000 (GMT) From: M R Godwin To: The looming mullet and the wily bream Subject: Give it to the Soft Boys I was listening for the first time to the Lady Margaret Hall version of Give It To The Soft Boys and I was struck by the musical (not lyrical) similarity to The Spotlight Kid by Captain Beefheart. I didn't notice this on the acoustic Portland Arms version, I guess because it is a lot more 'folky'. Is this just my imagination or are there a couple of virtually identical phrases? With those alibis and a la modes - Mike Godwin "And in the corner after lunch they used to cluster in a bunch" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 10:29:21 GMT From: Jim Davies To: BLATZMAN@aol.com Cc: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: Re: Bootleggers of the world just imagine: fan: Robyn, I've seen you on the net robyn: Yeah? what's happening on there? fan: Oh, some people are making cds of your stuff robyn: &^$#%! Jim ------------------------------ Date: 9 Nov 1995 06:52:23 U From: "King Chuck" Subject: RE: Bootleggers of the world To: "fegmaniax" > We all own unauthorized material. We all trade it freely. > > I see nothing wrong with this digital project. We're all participating in > illegal taping already. We're already all "bootleggers" of some sort, we > just have lousy equipment. The distinction in my mind is whether or not the performances being traded, treed, or whatever are copyrighted. We have no business duplicating and distributing copyrighted material. Chuck King with no clever signature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:50:00 -0500 (EST) From: roLLerCOasTEr boy To: King Chuck cc: fegmaniax Subject: RE: Bootleggers of the world On 9 Nov 1995, King Chuck wrote: > > We all own unauthorized material. We all trade it freely. > > > > I see nothing wrong with this digital project. We're all participating in > > illegal taping already. We're already all "bootleggers" of some sort, we > > just have lousy equipment. > > The distinction in my mind is whether or not the performances being traded, > treed, or whatever are copyrighted. We have no business duplicating and > distributing copyrighted material. > > Chuck King > with no clever signature I'm not a lawyer, but I think that in the US, there is implicit copyright in performances, especially in performances of previously copyrighted material. Although Robyn does tolerate non-profit tape trades, they ae *not* necessarily legal. I doubt A&M is as tolerant as Robyn. I agree that drawing a distinction between analog and digital is too arbitrary to be legally valid. The list is getting kinda dull here. Could the people who want to participate do so, and the people who don't agree to disagree and maybe we could move on? I'm not sure one side is going to convert the other. Hypocritically, doug ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:52:55 -0500 (EST) From: roLLerCOasTEr boy To: Terry Marks cc: dwillem1@IC3.ITHACA.EDU, fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: Re: Flavour of Night (lycros) On Thu, 9 Nov 1995, Terry Marks wrote: > > alright, i've loved this song for years, but i have also wondered > > for years, what the HELL are "ice cream hands" > > ??????? > > cold and clammy seems a bit of reach. > > cold and sticky does not fit what i think the mood of the song is. > > any thoughts? > I think (and DO NOT FLAME ME FOR THIS. Especially if whatever you're > trying to say involves my age and inference that because I'm younger than > some of you, I'm also less capable than the rest of you) that it's just > sort of Robyn's mind scurrying for a two-syllable word to stuff into the > lyrics and finding one that sounds really good. He does this fairly > often ("Mr. ROck'N'Roll", "Wey Wey Hep Uh Hole", "Cheese You","Fiend Before > The Shrine", "Star of Hairs", "Vegetable Friend"), just sort of making up > these really odd rhymes and lines that fit tenuously together, but sound > great when sung. (or dead) > > Terry "Have a Heart, I'm not Fireproof" Marks Hmmm. Like the infamous "divorce/horse," eh? I dunno. The rest of the song makes sense to me, so I was hoping this was one of the really elliptical ones that would strike me one day and make perfect sense all together, like "Clean Steve" did. doug ------------------------------ From: LORDK@FLP.LIB.PA.US Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:18:00 -0500 (EST) To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: booting up This is shakey ground. The question is--how to get what we want in a way Robyn wants. Does anyone else have my problem. While not a technophobe(obviously) I do have major problems with the whole idea of planned obsolescence. Thats right, no CD player,not untill my old turntable breaks(and that may not be till the next millenuim.) So, expect for when Ive paid thru the teeth for the odd EP, I am without all those bonus tracks. Wouldnt it be fab if if there was recourse for stubborn idiots like myself. Maybe not a record(thou I love their sound, especially when scratched up(scratches being like love bites--did I do that?!)) Maybe a tape. But who would make it and what would it cost. Is the charity cop-out a possibility? Somebody makes a tape or CD, with any profits to go to some charity picked by Hitchcock(minus what ever his usual take is for royalties.) If any record companies made legal objections they would look like rapiscious scallywags(which of course they are, but dont wish to appear as.) Or are we obsessing mountains into mothballs--like, who the f cares. I mean, we are very small potatoes indeed. Kay ------------------------------ From: Ross Overbury To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu (The list that invented itself) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 10:58:07 EST Subject: Cliquot, clinquant, clickot >On: Wed, Nov 8 Mr Overbury appended.. >>It sounds like french to me. >>I asked a couple of the natives what "clickot" might mean. I was met >>with blank stares. When I looked it up, I couldn't find it, but I did >>find "clinquant", which an Englishman would probably repeat as "clicko". >>When used to refer to style, it means "flashy", so it seems to fit. > >Forgive my ignorant intrusion -- I missed the context -- but could this be >"Cliquot", as in "Veuve Cliquot" (sp?) which is, if my addled brain is still >functional, a brand of French Champagne. > >Just by-the-way (and not to bring us down to earth in any way) but would >somebody mind explaining the Robyn content in this? > >Ta. >-Nick Thanks for the answer, Nick. Here's the question: What is the meaning of the word "clickot" in the song "certainly clickot"? (from the outstanding/sub-par recording "eye") I think you've got it. When I first read the posting asking about "clickot", I looked up "cliquot" in the dictionary and found nothing. It seemed to me the spelling should be "cliquot", but I couldn't remember why I thought that. Veuve Cliquot is indeed a brand of French Champagne. (veuve is "widow", and Cliquot is a family name) My own explanation seems a bit far-fetched by comparison. Now somebody tell me why "eggs" are pronounced "eggs or Brad". ... Brad? -- ROSS OVERBURY INTERNET: rosso@cn.ca ------------------------------ From: "Lupecheese" To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:21:53 GMT-5 Subject: exception... ur, I don't own any unauthorized material. ur, I have everything else that I can find and I enjoy each and every song even after the 1,000th listen. ur, I'm lacking so many b-sides and rarities and live stuffs that you guys all seem to have and talk about passionately just to make me jealous that it isn't even funny. ur, it is even a little depressing sometimes. here's my address: 2044 23 1/2 Drive Terre Haute Indiana 47802 and here's my name: Shane Dylan Brashear and if anybody wants to send me stuff so that there won't be an exception to the "everybody on this list owns unautorized material" rule then feel free, and I won't complain one bit. What is Netsurfer Ghost? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:57:39 -0800 (PST) From: Livia To: your mom Subject: Re: Flavour of Night (lycros) think vanilla ice cream. pale cold hands. very romantic (in the literary sense of the word) On Thu, 9 Nov 1995, roLLerCOasTEr boy wrote: > > > On Thu, 9 Nov 1995, Terry Marks wrote: > > > > alright, i've loved this song for years, but i have also wondered > > > for years, what the HELL are "ice cream hands" > > > ??????? > > > cold and clammy seems a bit of reach. > > > cold and sticky does not fit what i think the mood of the song is. > > > any thoughts? > > I think (and DO NOT FLAME ME FOR THIS. Especially if whatever you're > > trying to say involves my age and inference that because I'm younger than > > some of you, I'm also less capable than the rest of you) that it's just > > sort of Robyn's mind scurrying for a two-syllable word to stuff into the > > lyrics and finding one that sounds really good. He does this fairly > > often ("Mr. ROck'N'Roll", "Wey Wey Hep Uh Hole", "Cheese You","Fiend Before > > The Shrine", "Star of Hairs", "Vegetable Friend"), just sort of making up > > these really odd rhymes and lines that fit tenuously together, but sound > > great when sung. (or dead) > > > > Terry "Have a Heart, I'm not Fireproof" Marks > > > Hmmm. Like the infamous "divorce/horse," eh? > I dunno. The rest of the song makes sense to me, so I was hoping > this was one of the really elliptical ones that would strike me > one day and make perfect sense all together, like "Clean Steve" did. > > doug > ------------------------------ From: "Winkworth, Nick SJ" To: Vyrna Knowl Subject: FW: wonky mail Date: Thu, 09 Nov 95 09:39:00 PST On: Thursday, November 09, Jim Bower bewailed: >I'd just like to point out, should I ever appear to NOT know what I'm >talking about...unlikely as that may seem...it might be because my mail is >badly administered...or something...evidence suggests I'm not getting >everything that is posted. Some of these threads are more like strands. I have the same problem Jim *sigh*. I'm reading this on MS Mail via some kind of flaky internet gateway. I too often get "strands" rather than threads and occasionally see answers before their questions. My advice to you--and anyone else in this position--is to subscribe to the digest as well. As long as it gets through it has the benefit of completeness and If you think you missed something you can go back and check there. -nw ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:19:48 -0800 From: Jon-Ross Habina Subject: Re: Flavour of Night (lycros) To: roLLerCOasTEr boy cc: Terry Marks , dwillem1@IC3.ITHACA.EDU, fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu On Thu, 9 Nov 1995, roLLerCOasTEr boy wrote: > Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:52:55 -0500 (EST) > From: roLLerCOasTEr boy > To: Terry Marks > Cc: dwillem1@IC3.ITHACA.EDU, fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu > Subject: Re: Flavour of Night (lycros) > > > On Thu, 9 Nov 1995, Terry Marks wrote: > > > > alright, i've loved this song for years, but i have also wondered > > > for years, what the HELL are "ice cream hands" > > > ??????? > > > cold and clammy seems a bit of reach. > > > cold and sticky does not fit what i think the mood of the song is. > > > any thoughts? > > I think (and DO NOT FLAME ME FOR THIS. Especially if whatever you're > > trying to say involves my age and inference that because I'm younger than > > some of you, I'm also less capable than the rest of you) that it's just > > sort of Robyn's mind scurrying for a two-syllable word to stuff into the > > lyrics and finding one that sounds really good. He does this fairly > > often ("Mr. ROck'N'Roll", "Wey Wey Hep Uh Hole", "Cheese You","Fiend Before > > The Shrine", "Star of Hairs", "Vegetable Friend"), just sort of making up > > these really odd rhymes and lines that fit tenuously together, but sound > > great when sung. (or dead) > > > > Terry "Have a Heart, I'm not Fireproof" Marks > > > Hmmm. Like the infamous "divorce/horse," eh? > I dunno. The rest of the song makes sense to me, so I was hoping > this was one of the really elliptical ones that would strike me > one day and make perfect sense all together, like "Clean Steve" did. > > doug > Okay, 'Flavour of Night' has always been one of my very favorite Robyn songs. My interpretation is that 'ice cream hands' denotes something cool and sweet and welcome. A gentle, loving touch. It seems fairly simple to me. Of all of Robyn's imagery, this is a really high point. To me it is eloquent in a really surprising and unique way, and not obscure at all. Just my 2 cents' worth. Jon-Ross ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 95 13:52:47 EST From: kenster@MIT.EDU (ostrander) To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: avast ye maties! yo ho ho, we have some folks with some kind of moral problem with a cd tree on a list that is a veritable tape tree forest. what is the difference? please, the waffleheads or whomever are most likely displeased with any recording. apparently, they don't care how much we want the stuff. perhaps they figure the cost of mass production would not justify the anticipated sales. the only answer to the feg dilema is to get a tape from the list and succumb to another form of oblivion. ken p.s. >alright, i've loved this song for years, but i have also wondered >for years, what the HELL are "ice cream hands" i've always had the image hands that are cold to the touch. but then again they could be creamy or flavorful. think of 'nine and a half weeks'. ------------------------------ From: LORDK@FLP.LIB.PA.US Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:51:18 -0500 (EST) To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: The meaning, the kingdom and the horse. My, I am chatty today. For me, Im afraid, the divorce/horse bit makes alot of sense, but you have to follow what it suggests, not what it literally says. "And it rained like a slow divorce"--. Rain can conjure up sad memories, nostalgia, deppression, while slow divorce is like a long goodbye(the title of one of Chandlers novels},meaning life that can end only in death. "And I wished I could ride a horse". Isnt there an old nursery rhyme--if wishes were horses then beggers could ride? And what about that most(or one of the most) well known of Shakespeares lines, Richard the III running around Bosworth field yelling " My kingdom for a horse", as in, Id give everything Ive ever possessed just to get my sorry ass out of here and survive. See how many words its taken me to explain this "nonsense" couplet. The only problem is, I dont know who the genius is, me or Robyn?. Or both. Interactive rock n roll Does this qualify as girl-talk? Kay ------------------------------ From: "Winkworth, Nick SJ" To: Vyrna Knowl Subject: RE: CD Bootlegs, piracy, etc... Date: Thu, 09 Nov 95 11:43:00 PST OK. I have restrained myself so far but I can't hold back any longer ( I can resist anything except temptation). Here are some random thoughts on the above for your consideration. Disclaimer: I'm no lawyer (thank god) so what follows is my personal opinion, subject to amendment or correction as you see fit: 1) Don't get confused by ethical and practical considerations. As far as the medium is concerned, there is no ethical difference in reproducing this material on CD, Tape, DAT, 8-track cartridge or modem signals on a phone wire. There are however some practical issues around how it will be perceived and what retribution may be taken. More on this later. 2) Lets get the definitions clear: OK so Robyn holds (I presume) the copyrights to his material. But the record companies own the rights to reproduce and distribute certain recorded instances of this material. He may have made two different recordings of the same song for two different record companies, for example. Each can choose to release _their_ version if they so choose, but have no control over what the other company does with the other version. "Piracy" (as I understand it) would be taking one of those recordings _owned by_ a record company and reproducing it without their permission--usually with the intention of substituting sales of the original by the copy. Even in cases where the record company has _chosen_ not to distribute the material, this is clearly a breach of their rights of ownership. Large schools of steely-eyed fin-backed lawyers will descend on anyone attempting this. The fact that the artist sees no royalties from pirates is almost a side issue. "Bootlegging", on the other hand concerns "unofficial" or "unauthorized" recordings. These do not belong to a record company, so they have no claim (except in as much as they may reduce sales of official recordings--unlikely). The only loser here is the artist--either because unflattering versions of songs may circulate, or because people enjoy the material with no benefit to the artist. In this proposal I see a mixture of both these. The moral dilemma arises, however, firstly because we are few in number (and so present no _competitive_ threat to the record companies). Secondly we are the very people who will probably buy anything the record companies release anyway, even if we _did_ already have an unofficial copy of it. Lastly, this is not a commercial venture so no one is gaining at someone else's expense. "So," we say, " who loses?". Well, I'm not going presume to tell anyone else what' s right or wrong. We all have to operate according to our own conciences. I would, however like to throw in a word of caution... 3) We all excited because it's a CD, right? Not sure why, because the quality will only be as good as the source material. If you make a CD of a worn out scratched record it still sounds like a worn out scratched record. Record companies, on the other hand, are TERRIFIED of cheap CD recording technology. Making a tape copy to play in your car is one thing, but when anyone can make a PERFECT copy--and even the nth generation in indistinguishable from the original--they sweat. In fact if you ever want to see a record company executive lose his lunch, just sidle up to one at a bar one day and mention that [name a manufacturer] just released a CD recorder for under $500. Right now, they are out looking for people to make an example of, to give weight to their cries for legal restrictions, mandatory copy protection etc. I'd rather that example wasn't one of us. Given the high level of paranoia I'd stay at arms length from any CD reproducers just now. Just my $0.02. -nw ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 16:14:26 CST From: Bram Tchaikovsky To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: Vanilla ice cream body parts As to Flavour of Night (note nifty British spelling), I always thought that particular line was very evocative and of course interpretations are going to be subjective, but I thought of vanilla ice cream immediately. Not the coldness necessarily (though hands can of course be cold) but the perfect paleness and creamy texture that realy good vanilla ice cream could have. The taste angle never occurred to me, but I like it :). But could the person who had an epiphany about "Clean Steve" please share it with the class? That one I still find pretty opaque. And another thing- who is Linda Ryan? The obvious conclusion is that she's a porn star of sorts, but real or fictional? I guess this question just occurred to me because I just read the Kinks newsletter where someone was wondering if "Walter" of "Do You Remember Walter?" fame is a real person (and if you know that too, PLEASE tell me!). Susan (who failed pre-calculus but kicks ass in Trivial Pursuit) ------------------------------ From: jimm@dbu.edu Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 16:15:42 -0600 To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: RE: exception... part two Shane Dylan Brashear wrote: >ur, I don't own any unauthorized material. ur, I have everything else >that I can find and I enjoy each and every song even after the 1,000th >listen. ur, I'm lacking so many b-sides and rarities and live stuffs >that you guys all seem to have and talk about passionately just to make >me jealous that it isn't even funny. ur, it is even a little depressing >sometimes. here's my address: > >2044 23 1/2 Drive >Terre Haute Indiana 47802 > >and here's my name: > >Shane Dylan Brashear > >and if anybody wants to send me stuff so that there won't be an >exception to the "everybody on this list owns unautorized material" rule >then feel free, and I won't complain one bit. What is Netsurfer Ghost? ============================================== Yes--me too. Everything that I own of Robyn's stuff was purchased legally. But, just in case any kind souls want to send me something of the bootleg variety, you can send it to my work address: James Moore Professor of Ethics Dallas Baptist University 3000 Mountain Creek Pkwy. Dallas, Texas 75211 Thank you very much and good night. Beaker "Good Night I Say" Moore ------------------------------ Subject: booting To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu (two crabs) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:23:26 -0500 (EST) From: "Anna Rooney" Re: bootleg cd, etc. My granddaddy was wont to utter, "Never premeditate...just MURDER! MURDER! MURDER! Also helps you avoid conspiracy charges...." (and is there a Fegbase or some listing of songs recorded & performed...I seem to be missing out on surfer ghost? and green whatever) tschuB! ------------------------------ Date: 09 Nov 95 17:20:18 EST From: Aidan Merritt <101356.2516@compuserve.com> To: Fegmaniax Subject: The pirate CD being proposed I wouldn't normally get involved in a debate like this, but woj asked me to post this. If you have any replies to make to it send them to him and _NOT_ to me. Although I was initially supportive of the idea of this CD when Clint proposed it, a few minutes thought about it made me realise that it is almost certainly a seriously bad idea. Peter & Mushy Jenner (Sincere) have had a lot of bad experiences of people pirating stuff from their artists - particularly Pink Fdoyd - and have a policy of _always_ cracking down as hard as they can on bootleggers (people at concerts at which Sincere staff have been present have often reported having tape recorders taken outside and smashed), and they're even harder on pirates if they catch them. When _PVs_ and _Brenda_ first started, both Derek and I operated tape-trade networks, which we mentioned in print. Within days, we were getting threats of injunctions from Sincere and I have no doubt they'd have carried them through. I know the people who produced _Stand Back Dennis_, _Rout_, _From The Borderline_ and _Invisible History_. The reason none of these is easy to find these days is because, as soon as Sincere found out who was producing them, the BPI raided all those concerned; all remaining undistributed CDs were destroyed (including over 350 copies of _Stand Back Dennis_) and all equipment which they thought _may_ have been involved in the production was confiscated without compensation. (Obviously, I don't want to name those involved, but two of the persons involved were a magazine editor and a record label manager; the computers from the magazine and the presing rig from the label were both impounded. Neither have yet been returned, more than a year on.) British copyright law is draconian compared to that in the rest of the world, allowing copyright owners to confiscate goods/money to cover both any royalties or potential future royalties which may be lost as a result, plus an *unlimited* amount as 'compensation'. Sincere and the record labels - NOT Robyn - control the mechanical copyright. As all those potentially involved are based in the EU - Sincere, A&M, the receivers of Midnight - under the Berne Convention, only _one_ copy needs to find its way to this country - or _anywhere_ in the EU - for the British copyright law to be enforced anywhere in the world. As subscribers to _PVs_ may know, there was a flexi planned for one issue ('Psychedelic Love'/'The Unpleasant Stain', should you care). I got permission from Robyn, Kimberley & Morris (Andy didn't feature on either track) to use both tracks; however, we were unable to go ahead due to Sincere's threats of legal action. Unless the presser Clint has found is just one guy with a CDR machine (in which case he could make a hell of a lot more money turning you in and claiming the reward than he ever could by pressing short-run CDs), he's a commercial presser and as such is obliged by law to report every CD he presses to the MCPS. (Incidentally, if he's quoting you $15 per CD he is ripping you off badly; once mastering has been done - which can be done for around L20 by anyone with a Mac and a CDR machine - duplicate CD cost 69p (about $1) to produce.) _Live At The Portland Arms_ may not be easy to get in the states, but it's still on release (in vinyl form) in this country, and I'm sure is viewed as fodder for a potential future CD release. Sincere will _definitely_ claim this as justification for seeking vast compensation. The idea I've seen being touted of "we'll each send a check to Robyn" is ludicrous. Firstly, although Robyn holds performance copyright he does _not_ hold mechanical copyright on anything which has been released. Secondly, if you're going to have Sincere aiming to sequester your money as compensation - and you will be - it is *not* a good idea to send them something with your name and bank account details on it. If you want to reply to this, or want further info, send your messages to woj and not to me; he has the full message of which this is a shortened version, or if you request will forward them to me. I will _not_ reply to messages to me on this subject unless they're passed on by him or are from people I know. Aidan Merritt ------------------------------ From: jimm@dbu.edu Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 16:29:36 -0600 To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: RE: FW: wonky mail I have used the following words without the expressed written consent of the individuals who've authored them--I hope they are not high powered lawyers--(it's okay if they're low powered ones). ===================================== >>...it might be because my mail is >>badly administered...or something...evidence suggests I'm not getting >>everything that is posted. Some of these threads are more like strands. > >I have the same problem Jim *sigh*. >I too often get "strands" rather than threads >and occasionally see answers before their questions. ===================================== I'm wondering if any of you Fegs (is it politically correct to call someone a "feg"?) have the same problem that I do. I don't seem to miss postings, I just get duplicates about half of the time. After I read the first one I just say: "Yeah, you can say that again". And then when I read the second one I just say: "Wow, man... heavy... deja vu!". Beaker "STOPPING PLACE!!!" Moore ------------------------------ From: jimm@dbu.edu Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 17:30:21 -0600 To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: RE: Vanilla ice cream body parts Susan (who failed pre-calculus but kicks ass in Trivial Pursuit) wrote: >The taste angle never occurred to me, but I like it :). But could the >person who had an epiphany about "Clean Steve" please share it >with the class? That one I still find pretty opaque. >And another thing- who is Linda Ryan? >Susan (who failed pre-calculus but kicks ass in Trivial Pursuit) Yeah! And furthermore, who is Robyn ranting about in the song "Trash"???? Inquiring minds want to know... Octavius Julius Thurnchuzzler III ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 20:01:38 -0500 From: deluxe transitive vampire To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: Re: wonky mail hey all, jim and nick have mentioned that they sometimes miss mail. i can confirm that, sometimes, mail from the list is not delivered to everyone and thought that i would explain a little bit about that so that everyone is aware of what happens. when you post a message to the list, majordomo then goes ahead and sends that message to everyone who is subscribed by handing the message off to postmaster@ns2.rutgers.edu, which does the actual delivery. sometimes, the postmaster's attempts to deliver the messages fail. there are all sorts of reasons: a mail server may be down, a network may be down, the ever-popular "unknown mail error 1", and a plethora of other possibilities. if an attempt fails, postmaster will put the message back in the queue and try again later. after five days, postmaster will give up and, if the reason why the message was not delivered was a "hard" error (a hard error is an error that will preclude delivery in the future, while a soft error is transient), will send the whole message back to me along with an explanation. i could resend all the bounces individually. however, i only know of missed deliveries for "hard" errors, so i wouldn't be able to do this for all bounces. more importantly, i don't really have the time, energy or desire. so, that's a little of how things work behind the scenes. if you have any questions about this, please contact me off-list as i don't want to bore the rest of the list with this. i'll try to work out problems when they occur, but more often than not, the problem is on the receiving ends. that's not to say that rutgers is faultless - we've had our share of delivery problems, but that tends to affect the entire list, not a select few. woj [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The End of this Fegmaniax Digest. 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