Fegmaniax Digest <==----------==> (Send posts to the list to fegmaniax@nsmx.rutgers.edu) (Send adminstrative commands to majordomo@nsmx.rutgers.edu) (Send comments, etc to the listowner at owner-fegmaniax@nsmx.rutgers.edu) <==----------==> Volume 3 Number 177 Today's Topics: ------- ------ look at de Chirico new subscriber "Custom" Soft Boys CDs anyone? Re: Kim Deal on Kat. & Waves (vaguely Robyn related) Re: "Custom" Soft Boys CDs anyone? Re: "Custom" Soft Boys CDs anyone? Boston Fegs Re: "Custom" Soft Boys CDs anyone? Re: "Custom" Soft Boys CDs anyone? SB "bootlegging" problems Clickot - maybe Top 10 update Re: Clickot - maybe Terry and the Pirates Re: Terry and the Pirates FW: Clickot - maybe High Notes CD Bootlegs, piracy, etc... cliquot Re: Terry and the Pirates ------------------------------ From: fletch@lsli.com Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 21:40:25 PST Subject: look at de Chirico To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu No, its noone new, just me, the University of Houstons fine VAX system is down again... anyways for those who are not web impared and want to see some of de Chirico's works ( he was after all my favorite Marx Brother) they can be glimpsed along with a short bio at: http://www.oir.ucf.edu/wm/paint/auth/chirico enjoy jay ------------------------------------- E-mail: fletch@gw.lsli.com Date: 11/06/95 Time: 21:40:25 This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: BDWILLEMS@alex.stkate.edu Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:46:03 -0600 (CST) To: FEGMANIAX@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: new subscriber Once I was called by the initials SMWB but then I lost it. Name: Brian Willems Residence: U>S>of>A Found Robyn?: A woman I was dating who left me for another woman and eventually for another man with the same first name as I listened to Robyn and the VU and I couldn't understand how she could memorize his lyrics but then she gave me a tape of "Queen Elvis"/"Groovy Decoy" and then I lost it and then years later I bought "Gotta let this Hen..." from a woman named Shayna who I had a crush on and who was studying German film and who gave me 30% off and the record rekindled the magic that I felt the first times I listened to him. Books: T.Kromer's Waiting for Nothing. H.Miller's completer library. L.Durrell's Justine. A.Smedley's Daughter of Earth. P.Loti's Disenchanted and Japan (Madame Crysanthymum). M.Lidchi's Man of Earth. M.Corelli's Thelma. U.LeGuin's The Lathe of Heaven. Artists: Man Ray. Redion. Mucha. Picasso. also=... Favorite Robyn Song: Mr.Rock and Roll, She Doesn't Exit, She's My Bright Fresh Flower. Other Bands: Jonathan Richman. Bruce Springsteen (Nebraska...). Stereolab. Bob Dylan. Air Miami. The Who. The Yardbirds. Rolling Stones (December's Children, Exile, Beggar's Banquet...). VU. Man...or ASTROman?. John Coltrane. Maggie Teyte. Last Beautiful Experience: I was sitting in the cloister section of the local Cathedral and sitting on a McDonald's style bench and I just felt warmpth and beauty that actually made me feel some sympathy twords people who believe in God for about ten or fifteen minutes. Also, it made me want to read The Imitation of Christ. But I didn't. Glasses: Yes. "It may remain for us to learn...that our task is only beginning, and that there will never be given to us even the ghost of any help, save the help of unutterable and unthinkable Time. We may have to learn that the infinite whirl of death and birth, out of which we cannot escape, is of our own creation, of our own seeking;--that the forces integrating worlds are the errors of the Past;--that the eternal sorrow is but the eternal hunger of insatiable desire;--and that the burnt-0 out suns are rekindled only by the inexinguishable passions of vanished lives." -Lafacadio Hearn, Out of the East. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 15:12:14 -0500 (EST) From: "Clinton W. Golden" To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: "Custom" Soft Boys CDs anyone? Hi ya'll I've been corresponding with a chap who is putting together custom CDs for $20 each. This is, in my opinion, a good price, and a prime opportunity to put some of those rarer old ditties onto a cd that will be handy as hell - rather than having all the material spread over a bunch of vinyl - or on things that I don't have. Here's my question - would anyone else on the list like to help compile such a CD? I think it would be a good idea if the cd were to be compiled from the best quality sources, of which I do not have a lot of. If this interests any of you, and you may have things to contribute (I'm hoping to have a "Live at the Portland Arms/the Singles" kinda thing when I'm done), let me know. I do have a lot of the old singles which have alternate mixes, etc. on them, but, for example, my Live at the Portland Arms LP has a big ol' scratch in it halfway through the one side. So you can see why I'm enlisting your help. Let me know what ya'll think - $20 is a pretty darn good price! clint ------------------------------ From: cbrady@mail.millikin.edu Date: Tue, 07 Nov 95 14:12:10 cst To: jojones@mailbox.syr.edu (John B. Jones), fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: Re: Kim Deal on Kat. & Waves (vaguely Robyn related) Found on WWW (Addicted to Noise magazine): Kim Deal talks about how she came up with the pseudonym for her new side project, Tammy and the Amps: Here's the Deal (heh heh, get it, deal?) as told by Kim, aka Tammy, to the Bay Guardian. "We were going to be Tammy and the Ants, (but) There was already Adam and the Ants, and so the Ants was out. Then we became Tammy and the Amps-- I love that pseudonym, you know. It's so silly, like Debbie or Misty or Sally, like we were Katrina and the Waves, dumb chick and a backup band. But everyone would have just called it 'Kim Deal and the Amps,' so I nixed it." Dumb chick and a BACKUP BAND? Sheesh! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- John B. Jones e-mail: jojones@mailbox.syr.edu "You know Bootleg Sal used to live crosstown, The law went there and they closed him down, Now you can't get that stuff no more." -Tampa Red & Georgia Tom, 1932 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- I saw the amps in chicago two weeks ago...it was a class "A" ass kicker! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 23:41:33 -0500 To: "Clinton W. Golden" From: jojones@mailbox.syr.edu (John B. Jones) Subject: Re: "Custom" Soft Boys CDs anyone? Cc: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu, lgaylord@iww.org >Hi ya'll > >I've been corresponding with a chap who is putting together custom CDs >for $20 each. This is, in my opinion, a good price, and a prime >opportunity to put some of those rarer old ditties onto a cd that will >be handy as hell - rather than having all the material spread over a >bunch of vinyl - or on things that I don't have. > >Here's my question - would anyone else on the list like to help compile >such a CD? I think it would be a good idea if the cd were to be >compiled from the best quality sources, of which I do not have a lot of. > > >If this interests any of you, and you may have things to contribute (I'm >hoping to have a "Live at the Portland Arms/the Singles" kinda thing >when I'm done), let me know. I do have a lot of the old singles which >have alternate mixes, etc. on them, but, for example, my Live at the >Portland Arms LP has a big ol' scratch in it halfway through the one >side. > >So you can see why I'm enlisting your help. > >Let me know what ya'll think - $20 is a pretty darn good price! >clint Clint- Nothing could be finer than a Portland Arms CD! And for only $20! What you should try to do is collect some of the outtakes from the Portland Arms concert, such as Postman's Knock (found on Invisible History), and Deck of Cards (bob flexi). I have these, but only on tape. THis goes for Portland Arms as well. I had no idea there WERE alternate mixes on the singles. Cool! Count me in. Love, John (who up till now thought that RAW CUTS was the coolest Soft Boys item) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- John B. Jones e-mail: jojones@mailbox.syr.edu "A pox upon the media and everything you read, They tell you their opinions and they're very good indeed." -Soft Boys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:35:35 -0800 (PST) From: Brooks Martin To: "Clinton W. Golden" Cc: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: Re: "Custom" Soft Boys CDs anyone? Umm... you know, that's illegal and probobly immoral also. You could probobly justify making a backup copy of _your own records_ for archiving purposes, but sharing such a recording(especially if it's for a fee) isn't even bootlegging; it's piracy. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have that stuff on disc but the properway to go about that is to bug Robyn and his label(s) with letters and or phone calls. All a bootlegger would have to do is get their hands on one of your CD's long enough to make a digital copy and (s)he could make and sell several thousand copies thereby effectivly robbing Robyn of money he deserves. Not to mention the rest of the Soft Boys... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:03:32 -0800 (PST) From: prometheus To: ted woody and junior what the hell does "clickot" mean? if i may be so ignorantly bold. (as in certainly clickot) prometheus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 95 01:07 PST To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu From: Michael_Thompson@mindlink.bc.ca (Michael Thompson) Subject: Boston Fegs This British Columbia feg will be in Boston this weekend and is wondering if anyone would be so kind as to email me with any info regarding Cool Places (record shops, pubs, and the like) to go while we are there. ??? Merci ! Renee Lynn Thompson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 95 11:19:08 GMT From: Jim Davies To: bedbugs@elwha.evergreen.edu Cc: cg1u+@andrew.cmu.edu, fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: Re: "Custom" Soft Boys CDs anyone? I agree with Brooks' message. Swapping tapes is cute, and excusable. Bootlegging is kinda fun, but likely to piss off the artist. Piracy is fucked, as Rollins might say. It's not your work, it's not your invention, it's not your creativity. Have some respect. jim -- this isn't to attack clinton and co, just to say that the cd thing worries me a little ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 07:43:57 -0500 (EST) From: Terry Marks Subject: Re: "Custom" Soft Boys CDs anyone? To: Brooks Martin Cc: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, Brooks Martin wrote: > Umm... you know, that's illegal and probobly immoral also. You could > probobly justify making a backup copy of _your own records_ for archiving > purposes, but sharing such a recording(especially if it's for a fee) > isn't even bootlegging; it's piracy. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to > have that stuff on disc but the properway to go about that is to bug > Robyn and his label(s) with letters and or phone calls. All a bootlegger > would have to do is get their hands on one of your CD's long enough to > make a digital copy and (s)he could make and sell several thousand copies > thereby effectivly robbing Robyn of money he deserves. Not to mention the > rest of the Soft Boys... > What money? The recordings in question are not commercially available. If the Soft Boys were selling it, we wouldn't go around proposing bootlegs, but they aren't. Barraging the record company with requests very probably won't work. Anyways, what's being proposed is merely moving things from tape to CD. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:20:45 -0500 (EST) From: "Clinton W. Golden" To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: SB "bootlegging" problems Hi again Some of you have brought up bootlegging questions/problems and I'd like to address them personally (since I brought up the subject). Here's my take: Most, if not all, of these recordings have NOT been commercially available for years (their 1st single was 17 years ago!), and a lot of people have never heard them. There are, as far as I know, no plans at all to EVER release this stuff. The fact is, NOBODY is making money on these recordings currently - even if Robyn deserves it (which he does). I'm not even saying that someone should be making money on it, and the money this person is charging is for a transfer process, NOT the music itself (a blank CD runs about $15, so this guy is hardly making anything on this - think of how much time he's spending on each CD!). I don't think this should be considered piracy any more than tape trading is (and if you tell me you're a Robyn fan and you've never bought or traded or heard a live or demo cassette, then you're lying) and besides - these are not going to be massed produced. The recordings I have - all of the old singles, etc. - I've spent a lot of time and money compiling, and I'm offering them to people who aren't so lucky to have come across them. I actually think this is a good discussion topic, so please respond with what you think - maybe my judgement has been impaired by opportunity - I don't know. clint ------------------------------ From: Ross Overbury To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu (The list that invented itself) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 95 9:23:54 EST Subject: Clickot - maybe It sounds like french to me. I asked a couple of the natives what "clickot" might mean. I was met with blank stares. When I looked it up, I couldn't find it, but I did find "clinquant", which an Englishman would probably repeat as "clicko". When used to refer to style, it means "flashy", so it seems to fit. -- ROSS OVERBURY - Almost the Devil's Coachman Montreal, Quebec Canada (YES!) INTERNET: rosso@cn.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 10:10:50 -0600 (CST) From: JAY LYALL Subject: Top 10 update To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu OK so here's how they look out of the gate.... 10. Ghost Ship 9. Satellite 8. One Long Pair of Eyes, Sleeping with Your Devil Mask 7. All I wanna do is have some fun...sorry fall in love 6. Heaven 5. Serpent at the Gates of Wisodm, Acid Bird 4. Bass, Maddonna of the Wasps 3. My wife and my dead wife 2. I Often dream of trains, 52 stations 1. And once again....Airscape send you top tens to hist1a@jetson.uh.edu before the end of November jay %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Jay Lyall "Must you tell me all your secrets hist1a@jetson.uh.edu When its hard enough to love you knowing nothing" University of Houston --Lloyd Cole "I was born to cheese you." "If absence makes the heart grow fonder --Robyn Hitchcock Then I don't want to see you any more." --Replacements %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ------------------------------ From: swfcooke@warren.med.harvard.edu Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 12:31:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Clickot - maybe To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Veuve Cliquot I believe is a fairly expensive Champagne. Stefan ------------------------------ Date: 8 Nov 1995 15:36:11 -0500 From: "Wayne Grgurich" Subject: Terry and the Pirates To: "Society of Dark Birds" REGARDING Terry and the Pirates On Tue, 8 Nov 1995, The Inhuman Mellotron wrote: ...What money? The recordings in question are not commercially available. If the Soft Boys were selling it, we wouldn't go around proposing bootlegs, but they aren't. Barraging the record company with requests very probably won't work. Anyways, what's being proposed is merely moving things from tape to CD... Horseshit. And that's not even the point. But if this "fan" actually profits from his slimey venture, that would compound the inherent dirtiness of it all. Perhaps as Terry and the pirates get older, they'll also mature and eventually realize what the hell we're all talking about. It's just plain wrong. ------------------------------ Date: 8 Nov 1995 13:32:02 -0800 From: "Mark Gloster" Subject: Re: Terry and the Pirates To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Reply to: RE>Terry and the Pirates I am opposed to making these discussions flammable, but I tend to agree with the essence of what Wayne is saying. I think that the individual who is dubbing these is actually making some money on them (I can get recordable CD blanks for less than ten bucks these days, in volume that goes down further). I think there are some considerable legal issues involved and I think dealing with items as tradeable bootlegs is wiser for all parties than having a service replicate these items. Because of liability I wouldn't press such a CD if I had a duplication facility, and charging money for it would add more scariness. (The band King Crimson has successfully sued an international bootlegger recently for making money from bootleg recordings of their concerts. I have no knowledge of anyone being sued for distributing boots that they do not charge money for.) There is a chance that even if known about, this would be tolerated by Robyn. The problem is that it may make Robyn's view of his internet fans more negative than it already is. If enough nice people asked the Wafflehead staff to do some rarities and rereleases, I think they might realize that it is in their economic interest to service a huge demand (or even need). The right to release these recordings may still reside with a record company, however, instead of with Robyn. (Record companies tend to be a great deal more bloodthirsty about competition than artists- you don't want to piss them off.) Just some thoughts. -Mark Gloster "I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on TV" ------------------------------ From: "Winkworth, Nick SJ" To: Vyrna Knowl Subject: FW: Clickot - maybe Date: Wed, 08 Nov 95 14:12:00 PST On: Wed, Nov 8 Mr Overbury appended.. >It sounds like french to me. >I asked a couple of the natives what "clickot" might mean. I was met >with blank stares. When I looked it up, I couldn't find it, but I did >find "clinquant", which an Englishman would probably repeat as "clicko". >When used to refer to style, it means "flashy", so it seems to fit. Forgive my ignorant intrusion -- I missed the context -- but could this be "Cliquot", as in "Veuve Cliquot" (sp?) which is, if my addled brain is still functional, a brand of French Champagne. Just by-the-way (and not to bring us down to earth in any way) but would somebody mind explaining the Robyn content in this? Ta. -Nick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 17:36:56 -0500 (EST) From: Terry Marks Subject: High Notes To: Pretty Girls and Anglepoise lamps Most rockers in their 40's (Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Elton John, etc) use backup singers in concert because they can't hit those high notes anymore. I was listening to NetSurfer Ghost, and I realized that the album, as a whole, contains some of the highest notes he's used since "I'm Only You". Is Robyn reversing pop trends biologically also, or is there some better explanation that I'm missing? Terry "The Human Mellotron" Marks a013645t@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 13:57:57 -0400 (EDT) From: daramsey@vaxsar.vassar.edu (david spencer ramsey the first) Subject: CD Bootlegs, piracy, etc... To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Well, I personally would love to have a copy of "Live at the Portland Arms" on CD. Since it is 99% certain that it will NEVER be legitimately released in said format (if it was going to be released on CD, why wasn't it done by Ryko with the other reissues?), I think that it is only reasonable that we take the record and turn it into a CD. Jim Davies's comment about a bootlegger getting their hands on the CD and running off and making a thousand copies and selling them at a profit etc. is a reasonable point- however, if a bootlegger wants to create a bootleg of Portland Arms, all he needs is the record, which is what I imagine we would be using ourselves. The difference is that we would (I assume) be creating the CD in a VERY limited quantity for personal use only. Anyways, it's not like there are no Robyn CD boots out there on the market- there's "Stand Back Dennis", "Invisible History", and "Rout of the Clones". Finally, something I have been thinking about is that if we do create a CD of the Portland Arms show, or of anything else, we should pay Robyn- by this I mean along with the cost of making the CD, everybody who requests a copy should pay, I don't know, $5 or so as a sort of royalty which will be sent in the form a check directly to Mister Hitchcock. If we are true Robyn fans, then this 'royalty' will be perfectly reasonable...we want his music, and he needs to make a living from that music. We shouldn't get the music for free...Robyn created it, so Robyn deserves, in my mind at any rate, a financial compensation for the consumption of his creation. Just my two cents...so, yes, Clint, I think the CD is a good idea, provided that the above criteria (or some variation thereof) are also utilized. daveR. ---there's only one way of life, and that's your own--- Levellers. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 95 16:42:12 CST From: Bram Tchaikovsky To: fegmaniax@ns2.rutgers.edu Cc: jelandme@ea.oac.uci.edu Subject: cliquot I always thought he was referring to Veuve Cliquot, which I THINK is a kind of liqueur or possibly brandy......any bartenders or suave liquor drinkers out there with more definitive information? Susan, who spends her money on cds when she has any ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 17:30:15 -0600 (CST) From: "Jeffrey with 2 f's Jeffrey" To: "Us...we wanna be some anglepoise lamps yeh!" Subject: Re: Terry and the Pirates I think the issues around the CD are a bit more complex than some of the posts have suggested. First, the legal rights to the songs probably belong to the publishing co or the record co., not to Robyn. But, as pointed out, there doesn't exactly seem to be any plans to release them. This fact wouldn't prevent those companies from taking acion against anyone making a profit on them. Which brings us to the next point: is there a profit being made here, or is this more or less at cost? I'm more dubious if there's profit invovled (as opposed to just covering your costs)--and I think there's some legal distinction there as well. I suspect, though, that the legal issue isn't really as important as the ethical questions. Is someone being ripped off, or gone behind the back of, here? I suppose--but how different is this from a tape trade? The one main difference is that while cassettes are accessible to nearly everyone, CD duplication isn't. Other wise, it's the same thing, i'd say. What might Robyn think? Well, on the one hand, he might be pleased that people are interested in his work--on the other, he might be pleased that this particular material *is* out of print--perhaps he thinks it's sub-par, and would be irked that people are listening to it. Considerable precedent exists among musicians for both points of view about rough sketches and live rcordings, so I don't know what he'd think. In general, I've no ethical problem with ripping off record companies, because they're built on ripping off artists from day one. Yeah, sure, they're necessary evils, but evils all the same. I'm not, though, in favor of ripping off artists--but I'm not sure this proposal does that. As for offending artists by liking more of their material than they do (demos etc.): I think we have every right to do that. I mean, it's not as if someone shoved a mic in the toilet while Robyn was doing his business; at one time at least these things were inteded for release in some form, and many of them were released at one time. Bottom line: I wouldn't want to buy this if the person doing it's making too much money off it w/none of it going to Robyn. Otherwise, I think it's fine. Responses? --Jeff Jeffrey Norman "Watson! Something's afoot... University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee and it's on the end of my leg." Dept. of English & Comp. Lit. --Sherlock Holmes, in some e-mail: jenor@csd.uwm.edu Firesign Theatre skit, I think... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The End of this Fegmaniax Digest. Archives can *not* be found at ftp://fegmania.wustl.edu/fegmaniax/archives/ The Archives are temporarily unavailable. For administrative questions, send mail to owner-fegmaniax@nsmx.rutgers.edu For subscription requests, send mail to majordomo@nsmx.rutgers.edu. Slipping you the midnight fish...