From: owner-edheads-digest@efohio.com (edheads-digest) To: edheads-digest@smoe.org Subject: edheads-digest V5 #206 Reply-To: edheads@efohio.com Sender: owner-edheads-digest@efohio.com Errors-To: owner-edheads-digest@efohio.com Precedence: bulk edheads-digest Tuesday, September 24 2002 Volume 05 : Number 206 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: A new topic... Covers. [Bryan A Hall ] Re: A new topic... Covers. [Scott Stanard ] Re: A new topic... Covers. ["photomonk@earthlink.net" ] Re: A new topic... Covers. [Scott Stanard ] Med-EYE-a Theatre, 9/21/02 [Shellyus@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 13:30:59 -0500 From: Bryan A Hall Subject: Re: A new topic... Covers. I believe my knowledge comes from one of Janis Ian's articles (janisian.com) from Performing Songwriter magazine. So look through those for more detailed information. I didn't check out everything in the ASCAP link that was posted, but I don't think I'm repeating that stuff too much. Anyway, I'm 95% sure this is all correct: You can play anything live without paying royalties, but to release live or studio versions of someone else's songs, you have to pay them royalties. [I'm pretty sure that's where ASCAP comes in.] BUT, in Europe, you have to submit a setlist to the venue beforehand, and at some point pay royalties for performing other peoples' songs. Which I thought was sort of weird, but makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure where the line is drawn, though -- e.g., on Jeff Buckley's newest live album, "Live a L'Olympia" (in Paris), he does a tease of Led Zeppelin's Kashmir [he jokes that he used to play the 33 rpm record on a 45 rpm player (or vice versa), so it's all sped up -- and he does a sped-up version of the first verse. It's funny. Point being, I don't know if that would be charged royalties. That's my quasi-interesting anecdote. As for why EFO doesn't play those covers much anymore, my guess (knowing nothing concrete about their case on this specifically) is any or all of these ideas: - --now that they've been around a long time, they have so many of their own songs that they don't need to fill space with covers - --they don't want to play covers because they want to show people their own songs - --they're sick of playing the same songstheydidn'twrite after 10 years but that's just my guess, not speaking for or from the band. oh, another anecdote about the live stuff: myfavoriteband Jump, Little Children (www.jumplittlechildren.com - new DVD out now!) has a song called Pink Lemonade, in the middle of which they play You Are My Sunshine. They didn't put it on their live album (buzz) because they couldn't really afford to pay royalties. So there's something that may apply to EFO somehow. Personally, I would think it'd be really expensive to do an album entirely of covers, but it gets done. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 14:55:34 -0400 From: Scott Stanard Subject: Re: A new topic... Covers. This is not at all to correct you, because I truly don't know the answer, but reading your last anecdote, I immediately wondered why they would have to pay royalties on You Are My Sunshine, if it's the song I think you mean, as I would guess it's in the public domain by now. Is it not as old as I thought, or has someone renewed the copyright a number of times (which I thought could only be done once or twice), or what? If you know, I'd enjoy knowing, too... Thanks! Just curious, Scott ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bryan A Hall wrote: > ...oh, another anecdote about the live stuff: myfavoriteband Jump, Little Children (www.jumplittlechildren.com - new DVD out now!) has a song called Pink Lemonade, in the middle of which they play You Are My Sunshine. They didn't put it on their live album (buzz) because they couldn't really afford to pay royalties. So there's something that may apply to EFO somehow. Personally, I would think it'd be really expensive to do an album entirely of covers, but it gets done. > Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 15:46:47 -0400 From: "photomonk@earthlink.net" Subject: Re: A new topic... Covers. another source of discussion for this topic is the archives of the folkbiz email list. you can find them at www.escribe.com and search for folkbiz. aside from the topic of performance royalties, a search on PROs will yield info as people have discussed ascap, bmi, etc. amy - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 15:59:20 -0400 (EDT) From: "H. Wade Minter" Subject: Re: A new topic... Covers. On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Scott Stanard wrote: > This is not at all to correct you, because I truly don't know the answer, but reading your last anecdote, I immediately wondered why they would have to pay royalties on You Are My Sunshine, if it's the song I think you mean, as I would guess it's in the public domain by now. Is it not as old as I thought, or has someone renewed the copyright a number of times (which I thought could only be done once or twice), or what? If you know, I'd enjoy knowing, too... > Thanks! Copyright terms now last for a period of "life of the author + 75 years" (or 95 years in the case of corporate works), so the odds are very good that if "You Are My Sunshine" was recorded in the 1900s, it may still be under copyright. Of course, the next time Mickey Mouse's copyright is due to expire, Disney will probably buy another 20 years or so from Congress, which means that stuff from the 1900s on until today will probably not enter the public domain during most of our lifetimes. For information on a Supreme Court challenge to the most recent copyright extension, see http://www.eldred.cc/ - --Wade ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 16:38:26 -0400 From: Scott Stanard Subject: Re: A new topic... Covers. Ahhh.... I see! I had never heard of the lifetime of the author as part of the equation, and someone once told me 27 years, renewable only once. (Don't know where that came from...) Thanks for the clarification, Wade! Scott ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "H. Wade Minter" wrote: > Copyright terms now last for a period of "life of the author + 75 years" > (or 95 years in the case of corporate works), so the odds are very good > that if "You Are My Sunshine" was recorded in the 1900s, it may still be > under copyright. > > Of course, the next time Mickey Mouse's copyright is due to expire, Disney > will probably buy another 20 years or so from Congress, which means that > stuff from the 1900s on until today will probably not enter the public > domain during most of our lifetimes. > > For information on a Supreme Court challenge to the most recent copyright > extension, see http://www.eldred.cc/ > > --Wade On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Scott Stanard wrote: > This is not at all to correct you, because I truly don't know the answer, but reading your last anecdote, I immediately wondered why they would have to pay royalties on You Are My Sunshine, if it's the song I think you mean, as I would guess it's in the public domain by now. Is it not as old as I thought, or has someone renewed the copyright a number of times (which I thought could only be done once or twice), or what? If you know, I'd enjoy knowing, too... > Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 20:38:26 EDT From: Shellyus@aol.com Subject: Med-EYE-a Theatre, 9/21/02 OK...first-off, *blushy-blush* in response to Ellen{the guac Queen of MD}, Chris{who,as he said unfortunately couldn't stay for the soiree} and Marli{who was far away-o in MA} for the kudos{a perfectly acceptable granola bar, BTW, ell ;)}. Ok....so I book a little concert to kick off a new 'Live' series shortly before being ousted from a theatre I worked at. So I -still- host and cater{with aforemention excellent guac-magic of the fair Ellen}a teeny little after-party{that was planned before said ousting} for some band, my Mom, 15 of my closest friends from as close as 10 minutes drive to as far away as TORONTO, VANCOUVER and NEW ZEALAND, and...well....100+ complete strangers..... I mean, what ELSE is there to do on a Saturday night in mid-September????? It was all SO worth it and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. {well...just not -there- again :) } At the risk of being EXTREMELY biased and also not wanting to sound gloaty, I'll just give ya the setlist{or the 'Ellen and Shelly setlist' as it - -should- have been called ;)} and a few sidebars: Set 1 IRISH DREAM ONE GRAVITY 20,000 HEARTS HEY LITTLE MAN NUMBER SIX DRIVER BOOMERANG{yayeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!} THE BEST OF ME{perfect for Saturday night UN-date night!!} I DON'T THINK I KNOW ME STUPID AMERICAN{for the Canadians they knew were in the audience} LET'S GET MESOLITHIC{which I had requested...coz...well..I just thought Media - -needed- to ;) } Set 2 FRUITED PLAIN QUICK NO LEFT TURNS IN JERSEY ABRAHAM{yayyyyee and *sniffle* at the same time..great to hear it live again!!} SIMILE SONG SWING LOW SWEET CHARIOT/AMAZING GRACE ACCAPELLA MIX 1000 SARAHS FAREWELL TO SAINT DOLORES{Dave Carter song...which if you haven't heard them do yet, they do a wonderful job that I am sure he would have been proud of} EDDIE'S -DJEMBE{!!!!!!!!!!!} SOLO{man, I forgot how AMAZING the djembe solo was!!!!!!!!} CANDIDO{with my posse and i holding up glow ring 'O's for the chorus and making the band crack up...yay being in the front row...and had it not been an all-ages show, we could have apparently played a gave of 'bassist ring-toss' Mike added} OLD DOMINION Encore GET TOGETHER IRISH BLESSING{off-mic and yummy!!!!} Their banter was impeccable and lotsa fun...Julie's new tiger/leopard print sexy floor-length over-shirt has now apparently changed the name of the band to 'Cat-Woman and her Kittens' and this is 'The Litterbox Tour' according to Mike.....Julie did an -excellent- stage death when a monitor/speaker popped and she staggered offstage, back on, back off, back on to 'die' in Robbie's arms.....Mike said it was the Wilkes-Booths in the balcony..... After Eddie's solo, they announced it was his this Wednesday and I went up and took him a cake{which I had gotten the bakery to decorate like a drum :) } and everybody sang 'Happy Birthday' to him. He then came downstage with it, acted like he was gonna throw it in Robbie's face, then came down front to Julie's mic and said 'I've always wanted to do this" and stuck his finger in the icing and had Julie lick his finger off. The after-soiree was much fun{and Mike gets about 500+ Shellypointsb" for calling it a 'soiree' from stage!} and the 45 minutes they had originally planned on staying for turned into about 2-2 1/2 hours. When the gathering was dwindling, they did a -special- treat for my Canadian friends and did 'O CANADA'. A good time was had by all. So thanks to Julie, Mike, Eddie, Robbie, and, of course, Bob, for making it a fun and wonderfully entertaining time. And theatre{who were originally doubting Thomases and took my word that they were gonna be awesome} wants them to come back again next year around this time!!!!! So everyone....same time, next year{well...or close to it}...Media, PA!!!! Except I think my soiree was a one-time thing. Shelly {whose jersey has apparently been retired ;) } ------------------------------ End of edheads-digest V5 #206 *****************************