From: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org (eda-thoughts-digest) To: eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Subject: eda-thoughts-digest V3 #172 Reply-To: eda-thoughts@smoe.org Sender: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk eda-thoughts-digest Friday, April 28 2000 Volume 03 : Number 172 * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * eda-thoughts-digest-request@smoe.org with ONLY * the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: eda-thoughts-digest V3 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. Today's Subjects: ----------------- ET: Re: eda-thoughts-digest V3 #168 [Cassidy831@aol.com] Re: ET: Re: eda-thoughts-digest V3 #168 ["~* cymbaline *~" ] ET: rape... [Mango Ara ] ET: the right to choose [Katherine Alexandra ] ET: kat's post about abortion [zerocool@sunlink.net (Niki)] Re: ET: the right to choose ["~* cymbaline *~" ] Re: [Re: ET: the right to choose] [genben@usa.net] ET: a poem amidst the hubbub [genben@usa.net] Re: [ET: Re: turning pain into love] [RedWoodenBeads@aol.com] ET: Re: eda-thoughts-digest V3 #171 [RedWoodenBeads@aol.com] ET: Re: abortion and rape [RedWoodenBeads@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 20:25:05 EDT From: Cassidy831@aol.com Subject: ET: Re: eda-thoughts-digest V3 #168 In a message dated 4/26/100 11:02:00 PM EST, owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org writes: << well, through God all things are possible. maybe it was a sign from God, through the baby, giving thanks for saving its life, rather than aborting it because it had a disease it had no control over! >> Well, maybe it's all horseshit. But hey, you believe it, that's fine. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 00:36:26 GMT From: "~* cymbaline *~" Subject: Re: ET: Re: eda-thoughts-digest V3 #168 >Well, maybe it's all horseshit. But hey, you believe it, that's fine. the picture is proof enough that the *baby* (not "unliving, unbreathing thing inside the womans womb"), did what she did. The picture doesn't lie. if you DON'T want to believe it, well... THATS horseshit. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 20:42:32 -0500 From: zerocool@sunlink.net (Niki) Subject: Re: ET: Re: eda-thoughts-digest V3 #168 >>Well, maybe it's all horseshit. But hey, you believe it, that's fine. > >the picture is proof enough that the *baby* (not "unliving, unbreathing >thing inside the womans womb"), did what she did. The picture doesn't lie. > >if you DON'T want to believe it, well... THATS horseshit. I'm going to have to agree with you here Kelly. Besides being horseshit I think it's kinda sad that someone can't believe in something so amazing... believe that it is more than just an accident or whatever... Cas-I'm interested-what DO you believe in? Cuz I've gathered that you don't really believe in God... or at least you don't have faith in him- what DO you have faith in? Not to get you mad..I really am curious..I guess it would help me understand better why you said some of the stuff you do Niki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 20:57:01 -0400 (EDT) From: courtney gordon Subject: ET: ugh Dear Angels, If it's the woman's choice, then she should be able to do exactly whatever the hell it is she wants to do. Court ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:02:44 -0700 From: Mango Ara Subject: ET: rape... i have kept out of this talk, because i don't think i'll help much. i'm not going to cuss out anyone. but one thing-- kelly said >no matter what, you're gonna live w/ that pain. the abortion won't heal anything. It wont even mean the rape never happened.< yes, but the point is, would you want to look at your child and always have that lingering knowledge that this is a child out of violence? i think each woman should make her own choice. it is not up to anyone to judge the situation of rape, ESPECIALLY. and i am sorry joe, but i am extremely touchy when men start judging women on the topic of abortion. personally, i think it is no business of a guy. men would not know, and never could know even through sympathy, what women go through in terms of biology alone-- from the fear of pregancy--(it is always possible, even the smallest percentage)-- to the fear of rape-- to the actual process of pregnancy and giving birth-- to abortion and adoption. men have no right whatsoever to judge and it offends me greatly when they do. i can understand a man having his own opinion about the subject, because franky, who wouldn't? however, it will never be something that affects a man the way it affects a woman. it has nothing to do with the man's body, and everything to do with the woman's. i could never have an abortion. but our bodies should not be ruled. we should have at least that choice, otherwise, freedom vanishes faster and faster. - -- thank you for turning on the light, thank you, now you're the parasite. i didn't think you had it in you-- now you're looking like i used to. - -no doubt Diva-to-be ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:08:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Katherine Alexandra Subject: ET: the right to choose it's something like this.... how does it go? i'm sure someone knows the correct lyrics....but "they call her a sinner, a killer and a whore. try to stand in her shoes, and then maybe you would understand how hard it is too choose"....it's something like that... anyhow....what i am trying to say is, i understand if you are against abortion, but you dont' know their situation. and abortion is going to happen, illeagly. perhaps we should work with the core of the problem, make it so that birth control is more widely avaible, maybe parents need to be more honest with their children and not live in denial, BUT sex is going to happen, abortions are going to occur. you really dont know the situation that the person is in, until you are in it. i have a friend that got pregnant prom night her senior year. she has this bf, he went into the army. a real ass. you know what? he fucking poked holes in the condom. he's not there for her at all. this girl is a mess, she was the sort of person that would break down in tears if she couldn't find a dress that fit inside the mall. i know it sounds terrible, but she is a horrible mother. i have spent a great deal of time with her, it's such a hard job. esp. when the man isn't there (and in most cases he isn't). i am just saying that you can't stop abortions from happening, they will, legalized or not....but perhaps if we could find the root of the problem, if parents could get closer to their children...DECREASE abortions, you can't stop them though. love, kat __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 21:27:50 -0400 From: "Kevin B. Pease" Subject: ET: Re: the right to choose "Katherine Alexandra" writes: > how does it go? i'm sure someone knows the correct > lyrics....but [...] Sounds like you're looking for Everlast's "What It's Like"? "[...] Mary got pregnant from a kid named Tom that said he was in love He said, "Don't worry about a thing, baby doll I'm the man you've been dreaming of" But three months later he say he won't date her or return her calls And she swear, "Goddamn, if I find that man I'm cuttin' off his balls" And then she heads for the clinic and She gets some static walking through the door They call her a killer, and they call her a sinner, and they call her a whore God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in her shoes 'Cause then you really might know what it's like to have to choose [...]" Kevin - -- Kevin Pease kbpease@concentric.net ICQ UIN: 3106063 AOL IM: kbpease ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 21:34:54 -0500 From: zerocool@sunlink.net (Niki) Subject: ET: kat's post about abortion Your post made me think of this HBO Families in Trouble series they used to run. The one was about this girl who was raped (i think) by her b/f. She got pregnant but she didn't tell her parents because she was scared... So she went to some underground place and got an abortion (which is illegal). So like a week or so after she had that done she started bleeding uncontrollably and died within a few hours. Turns out (not surprisingly) that they had used unclean tools on the girl and didn't exactly know what they were doing. I mean not only can you die from getting an illegal abortion on the streets or wherever, but you can get hepatitus, aids, etc... I totally agree that parents should be closer to their children, so their kids feel safe telling them something as big as this. Niki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 01:54:35 GMT From: "~* cymbaline *~" Subject: Re: ET: the right to choose Drugs are illegal, but they still happen. But they're harder to come by. If they were legal, it would be so easy, and so common. Even more so then they are, being illegal. If abortions were illegal, at least it would be harder to get, and the rates would decline a bit. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: 27 Apr 00 22:14:34 EDT From: genben@usa.net Subject: Re: [Re: ET: the right to choose] "~* cymbaline *~" wrote: > Drugs are illegal, but they still happen. But they're harder to come by. If > they were legal, it would be so easy, and so common. Even more so then they > are, being illegal. > If abortions were illegal, at least it would be harder to get, and the rates > would decline a bit. drugs are not hard to get AT ALL. they are, however, more dangerous and more attractive to those who are seeking rebellion, simply becasue they are illegal. would you rather have abortion be illegal and therefore more dangerous and harmful to the mother? i think we can all agree that abortion takes away a possible life, but at least there is some semblence of safety for the mother (or would be mother) involved. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------------------------------ Date: 27 Apr 00 22:23:48 EDT From: genben@usa.net Subject: ET: a poem amidst the hubbub as you enter the room i stand awestruck wondering how i could have ever forgotten this feeling this one here now thinking about the way your smile looks like the first smile i have ever seen and the way your eyes will never look away from me and the way i kiss you as though kisses were a theory that i need to prove ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 23:28:56 EDT From: RedWoodenBeads@aol.com Subject: Re: [ET: Re: turning pain into love] In a message dated 4/27/00 3:47:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, genben@usa.net writes: << i can argue with the fact that you seem to have a person at your church for every situation that arises, joe. you are not giving me what i consider to be concrete proof or information on ANYTHING. what you are doing is generating hearsay that has no real relevance in any logical discussion and is an indicator that you are afraid to claim these as your own feelings because you are afraid that no one will believ anything you say unless you validate it with invented "people at your church". i, for one, am sick of it. if you feel that abortion is wrong, fine. you are entitled to that opinion. but the bottom line is that exerting your will on other people is what is really wrong. if you would look deeper into your argument, you would realize the hypocritical >nature of it. Hmm, I have told you about like two people from Holy Family Catholic Church where I go? You know what, you are a real nasty person. I share my personal experiences on an issue that I have been impassioned for and had experiences with for years, and you act like I'm some kind of jerk for it. I am deeply sorry I ever shared some of my friendships with women who have gone through this. The fact, is I have spent a lot of tiem at The Madonna House here in Tulsa. When I was little I used to go help my mom plant flowers there. I've been involved in the pro-life movement. I have prayed outside of abortion clinics with my fellow Catholics while anit-life-ers throw stuff at us and cuss us out. Sorry that you don't like the fact that I actually am able to prove you wrong and so you have to personally attack me. Sigh. >How is it that it is wrong for a woman to abort a pregnancy, thereby dictating the fate of another individual, but it's okay for YOU to tell this woman what to do with her own life? explain to me the logic of this. i don't see it. you are saying that one form of forceable decision is right, while another is wrong.> All I am saying is that children have the right to live and no one has the right to murder them. I am sorry, but I don't feel that sucking an infant out of his/her mother's body and then throwing their corpse in a trash can is right. you are simply not makig a whole lot of sense. >> I'm not? And what, your personal, hateful attacks are making sense? no longer cradled in gravity's memory still in and spinning in spiral drifts of endlessness spinning in torment into the garden of light - -Pale Saints "A Thousand Stars Burst Open" http://www.chickpages.com/musicmania/joepages ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 23:32:49 EDT From: RedWoodenBeads@aol.com Subject: ET: Re: eda-thoughts-digest V3 #171 In a message dated 4/27/00 5:17:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org writes: << NO! YOU DO NOT HAVE EXPERIENCE! Joe, Until you are a woman who has had an abortion, you have NO EXPERIENCE ON THIS ISSUE WHATSOEVER. It is arrogant and disrespectful to even suggest that you do. Shame on you. How DARE you even make such a comment. >> You don't even know me. Many of my friends are women who have gone through this. I have walked this path for years. Shame on you for being so judgemental. no longer cradled in gravity's memory still in and spinning in spiral drifts of endlessness spinning in torment into the garden of light - -Pale Saints "A Thousand Stars Burst Open" http://www.chickpages.com/musicmania/joepages ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 23:36:23 EDT From: RedWoodenBeads@aol.com Subject: ET: Re: abortion and rape In a message dated 4/27/00 5:17:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org writes: << Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 23:30:25 GMT From: "~* cymbaline *~" <> Subject: ET: Re: abortion/adoption/church and state >but why should some poor woman who has been assaulted have to go through >nine months of pregnancy, LABOR, and the unbelieveable mental trauma of >giving up a baby for adoption? just because she was attacked? how is that >not an infringment of HER RIGHTS? what gives her the right to determine the fate of an unborn child, who deserves to live? its not the baby's fault she was raped, (NOT saying it was hers), but to punish this innocent child for something it didn't do? and if the woman didn't give the kid up for adoption, I'm sure she'd love the child as HER OWN.... I could never kill my own flesh and blood. Even if I was raped. And yes, I was raped once. I feared being pregnant, only because I didn't want to tell my parents my boyfriend raped me. IF I did get pregnant, I would have gone through w/ the pregnancy, despite the fact my boyfriend was the biggest, violent, asshole. >> My deepest sorrow for what you weant through. There is nothign worse than when a male is cruel to a female. Your points where wonderful. I cannot agree with you more. Often, so it seems, many of these women (or girls) are afriad and don't know what to do. They feel as though they have no way out, and so these anti-life people get them in a weak situation and try to convince them to abort. It's horrible. no longer cradled in gravity's memory still in and spinning in spiral drifts of endlessness spinning in torment into the garden of light - -Pale Saints "A Thousand Stars Burst Open" http://www.chickpages.com/musicmania/joepages ------------------------------ End of eda-thoughts-digest V3 #172 **********************************