From: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org (eda-thoughts-digest) To: eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Subject: eda-thoughts-digest V3 #170 Reply-To: eda-thoughts@smoe.org Sender: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk eda-thoughts-digest Thursday, April 27 2000 Volume 03 : Number 170 * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * eda-thoughts-digest-request@smoe.org with ONLY * the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: eda-thoughts-digest V3 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. Today's Subjects: ----------------- ET: Re: indie rock ["Scott" ] Re: ET: to joe about abortion [JewelAng@aol.com] Re: [Re: ET: to joe about abortion] [Naomi Vaughn ] ET: abortion/adoption/church and state ["Platt, Caroline" Subject: ET: Re: indie rock <> Oh, ok, I thought you were talking about Ani.. In which case, I didn't even bother to respond, because it was such a painfully ignorant thing to say.. But if you're wondering what I meant about Jewel, I didn't mean that she changed anything about the biz or anything, but for some people like me.. I don't know.. I needed the obvious, life-affirming messages that her music brought about, that no one else was doing becasue they feared it was too straightforward, too corny.. And then I met her fans, and it was such a warm, bonding community until recently.. It literally saved my life because I was so depressed.. But the way I'm feeling right now, it's like Jewel helped me, I got what I could from her, and I need to move on.. Because while I still like nearly everything she does, and it still inspires me the same amount it did when I first discovered her, other artists like Ani Difranco and Tori Amos are giving me a spark I need that Jewel's not.. Ani's my favorite artist right now, I must listen to her 3 or more hours a day, her messages, her music, just her, but I'll always remember Jewel as that one artist who changed my life.. Okay, blah blah blah.. Bye.. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 10:49:05 EDT From: JewelAng@aol.com Subject: Re: ET: to joe about abortion In a message dated 4/27/00 9:01:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cymbaline76@hotmail.com writes: << and her boyfriend was supportive throughout the whole thing. >> But was he supportive AFTERWARDS? Rebecca - -------------------------------- http://www.envy.nu/ophelia Ophelia Spins http://nettrash.com/users/majesticramblings .majestic.ramblings. http://www.envy.nu/souls Common hearts with common dreams (cliques) http://www.angelfire.com/yt/horns My horns keep up my halo (webring) - ----------------------------------- Into the night of the heart your name drops slowly and moves in silence and falls and breaks and spreads its water *Pablo Neruda* ------------------------------ Date: 27 Apr 00 09:37:05 CDT From: Naomi Vaughn Subject: Re: [Re: ET: to joe about abortion] > This is a very easy-sounding solution... but your willingness to toss it > around so freely makes me think you don't quite understand the emotional & > psychological significance & impact of adoption. Do you know anybody who is > adopted (well)? One of my old best friends was adopted. The relationship between her and her adopted mom was very abusive, on both sides, mostly emotionally... until her mom hit her, and she is now living w/ her aunt. She met her birth mom on Easter, and it was really hard for her, having this person who is a stranger to her tell her she is her mom. I'm not by any stretch of the imagination trying to say every kid that's adopted is going to be abused, but I agree with Kev, it is not a simple, clean cut thing. "if anybody ever had a heart, well i wouldn't be alone" ~mb20, "hang" ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:13:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Katherine Alexandra Subject: ET: poems WHAT I AM AFRAID OF its funny the things that will go through your mind when you have a term paper due and an examine the next day when you have to choose between an "A" and sleep when you toss and turn over worries that perhaps you are wrong. it's funny how the second guessing really starts. you never mean to, you just see his face you never mean to start it start the wondering if it's right with boxes packed and plans to leave in less then a week 3,000 miles away from home. it's funny how you start wondering if you can ever reclaim any faith in that small town which we are all from My Cold Toes my toes are cold and i am afraid i am going to be honest about how my skin is crawling over me wrapping me up the way a mother would rocking me back and forth hoping to gain some comfort in all the uncertainty i dont know what i am doing. THESE IMAGES i've built this image with a toothpick and a broken heart with experiance left in the wind i have built this smile from superglue and lies from naive times when i thought i could i have built this life from dreams that will never come true. and now i am wondering where am i, without history to back me up. I WON i have won somehow i have met him and i have won this game of wondering if he is alive and i have won because i know he is here and i have won his heart i can dance now i can scream but all will fall apart in a day, week, year and i will be back panting at the finish line unaware of how i lost THE TRUTH BEHIND A SHREW i put my teeth into you, and then tore you apart the man that you were when we begain is the man that you now are not i shreded your heart and bit away any pride i put my tiny fingernail deep into your skin waiting for it to bleed into my mouth i threw you around, lied about my intentions leaving you empty and wondering what happened to the innocense that you first saw to that cute little freckled faced american girl i spit on your dreams and reclaimed all my freedom by shoving the pain of who i am into your spine now you are a whimp with no backbone crawling to me apologizing for what i have done to you sometimes i wonder why i am alone. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:09:34 -0700 From: "Platt, Caroline" Subject: ET: abortion/adoption/church and state but why should some poor woman who has been assaulted have to go through nine months of pregnancy, LABOR, and the unbelieveable mental trauma of giving up a baby for adoption? just because she was attacked? how is that not an infringment of HER RIGHTS? I have an ex who is adopted and i cannot even begin to tell you the issues (serious need-professional-help issues) that it causes for him. For some others, it is fine, but there is no way to tell. one other thing no one has mentioned.... seperation of church and state in this country??? i know many religions are against abortion. that does not give them any rights to legislate anything. seperation of church and state was one of the main reasons this country was founded. caroline - -----Original Message----- From: ~* cymbaline *~ [mailto:cymbaline76@hotmail.com] Sent: April 27, 2000 9:00 AM To: eda-thoughts@smoe.org Subject: Re: ET: to joe about abortion >Oh god Cymbie.... > >Do you really think a women could live with a little being, from some guy >that RAPED her, and then give it up for adoption. That just seems like >insane torture. actually, i know a girl who was raped at a 3 day modelling convention she went to, at the beginning of her senior year in high school. they guy (another model) gave her a drug that made her unconscious... she didn't remember being raped, then she found outr she was pregnant, and put 2 and 2 together, and she went through w/ the pregnancy, and had the baby shortly after graduation. and her boyfriend was supportive throughout the whole thing. Kelly ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:25:55 EDT From: RedWoodenBeads@aol.com Subject: ET: Re: abortion/adoption/church and state In a message dated 4/27/00 11:06:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Caroline.Platt@wbr.com writes: << but why should some poor woman who has been assaulted have to go through nine months of pregnancy, LABOR, and the unbelieveable mental trauma of giving up a baby for adoption? just because she was attacked? how is that not an infringment of HER RIGHTS? Rape is a horrible thing, but the fact remains that this is a Human being within this woman, a seperate human person who is completely different from her. She has no right to kill this person, regardless of the situation. Ultimayely, abortion cause imense pain and suffering in a woman. It is unatural and against THE LAW OF NATURE AND GOD for a woman to destroy her own child, and so countless women go through post-abortion trauma, a plight of imense depression, etc. I have been involved in the pro-life effort for years, and I have spoken to women who have had abortions, and then experienced horrendous post-abortion trauma. Many women experience horrible hightmares, in which they see the face of or hear the voice of their dead child. Abortion is evil, and it destroys women. I have an ex who is adopted and i cannot even begin to tell you the issues (serious need-professional-help issues) that it causes for him. For some others, it is fine, but there is no way to tell. I have cousins who are adopted who are blissfully happy. I cannot even begin to think of the horro had their mothers chosen to kill them. I suppose your Ex should've been killed, is that right? Would it have been better for him to have been murdered than for him to go through some pain in life? one other thing no one has mentioned.... seperation of church and state in this country??? i know many religions are against abortion. that does not give them any rights to legislate anything. seperation of church and state was one of the main reasons this country was founded. No one has the right to kill another human being, PERIOD. This is not a religous issue, this is an issue of protecting the lives of innocent human beings. caroline >> Joe no longer cradled in gravity's memory still in and spinning in spiral drifts of endlessness spinning in torment into the garden of light - -Pale Saints "A Thousand Stars Burst Open" http://www.chickpages.com/musicmania/joepages ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:28:56 EDT From: RedWoodenBeads@aol.com Subject: ET: Re: elian In a message dated 4/27/00 6:03:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org writes: << Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 05:24:35 -0400 From: "stephen" Subject: ET: elian A large load of political bullshit. please stop talking about it. >> there will be no silence when a child's freedom is at stake. Silence is the ultimate evil. It is silence that causes lives to be shriveled and pain to swell. no longer cradled in gravity's memory still in and spinning in spiral drifts of endlessness spinning in torment into the garden of light - -Pale Saints "A Thousand Stars Burst Open" http://www.chickpages.com/musicmania/joepages ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:31:22 EDT From: RedWoodenBeads@aol.com Subject: ET: Re: turning pain into love In a message dated 4/27/00 6:03:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org writes: << Do you really think a women could live with a little being, from some guy that RAPED her, and then give it up for adoption. That just seems like insane torture. >> you think it is the baby's fault? I know a woman at my church. She is single, and was raped a year ago. Today she is the happiest person I know. She loves her baby boy, and says that her life has never been better. the way she explains it is like this. God brought something beautiful and wonderful out of something evil. You can't argue with this woman. no longer cradled in gravity's memory still in and spinning in spiral drifts of endlessness spinning in torment into the garden of light - -Pale Saints "A Thousand Stars Burst Open" http://www.chickpages.com/musicmania/joepages ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:38:34 EDT From: RedWoodenBeads@aol.com Subject: ET: Re: rape: turning pain into love In a message dated 4/26/00 5:03:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org writes: << Hmmm... so what do you think about a women being raped and getting impregnated. And YES I know that if you go to the hospital they give you a 72 hr pill but what about those that are too scared?? Should they have to live with that reminder every day of their lives? And what about when they go to get married-if they already aren't-then what? And if they are married...can you imagine fathering someone else's child-some sicko's child who hurt your wife? In most other circumstances I think the child should live...and I think people should get smart and use protection and be responsibe and such... but what about rape... and what about if the child has some type of disease? What if the mother has AIDS and is pregnant... should she let her baby be born to live a tragic life? (not saying that all people with aids lead tragic lives...but they do go through a lot of painful things once full blown aids occurs) I mean full blown aids in a child could conceivable happen at ages 5-whenever... Are you going to take the chance of your baby going through that hell? >> Do you actually believe that a woman, who has gone through rape, would benefit by allowing a doctor to suck her baby out of her and destroy him/her? Do you really think that going through two violent experiences would be the best thing? You act like this child, is some kind of a small version of the rapist, some evil being growing with in the woman, who exists to ruin her life. This is a child. A human being who needs love and happiness. This is someone who could be raised in a home bursting with love, and grow up to be a wonderful human being. The thing that really distinguishes me on the abortion issue is I have experience. Women I have met who'v had abortions are miserable. They're haunted by it, and it is an utter suffering. No one should have to go through this. Women I know who contemplated abortion, then decided not to allow the murder of their child, are filled with happiness. There's no either way, it's always like that. The fact is, killing your baby is not the answer to rape. Love is. no longer cradled in gravity's memory still in and spinning in spiral drifts of endlessness spinning in torment into the garden of light - -Pale Saints "A Thousand Stars Burst Open" http://www.chickpages.com/musicmania/joepages ------------------------------ Date: 27 Apr 00 18:46:58 EDT From: genben@usa.net Subject: Re: [ET: Re: turning pain into love] RedWoodenBeads@aol.com wrote: > I know a woman at my church. She is single, and was raped a year ago. Today > she is the happiest person I know. She loves her baby boy, and says that her > life has never been better. > > the way she explains it is like this. God brought something beautiful and > wonderful out of something evil. You can't argue with this woman. i can argue with the fact that you seem to have a person at your church for every situation that arises, joe. you are not giving me what i consider to be concrete proof or information on ANYTHING. what you are doing is generating hearsay that has no real relevance in any logical discussion and is an indicator that you are afraid to claim these as your own feelings because you are afraid that no one will believ anything you say unless you validate it with invented "people at your church". i, for one, am sick of it. if you feel that abortion is wrong, fine. you are entitled to that opinion. but the bottom line is that exerting your will on other people is what is really wrong. if you would look deeper into your argument, you would realize the hypocritical nature of it. How is it that it is wrong for a woman to abort a pregnancy, thereby dictating the fate of another individual, but it's okay for YOU to tell this woman what to do with her own life? explain to me the logic of this. i don't see it. you are saying that one form of forceable decision is right, while another is wrong. you are simply not makig a whole lot of sense. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------------------------------ Date: 27 Apr 00 18:46:58 EDT From: genben@usa.net Subject: Re: [ET: Re: turning pain into love] RedWoodenBeads@aol.com wrote: > I know a woman at my church. She is single, and was raped a year ago. Today > she is the happiest person I know. She loves her baby boy, and says that her > life has never been better. > > the way she explains it is like this. God brought something beautiful and > wonderful out of something evil. You can't argue with this woman. i can argue with the fact that you seem to have a person at your church for every situation that arises, joe. you are not giving me what i consider to be concrete proof or information on ANYTHING. what you are doing is generating hearsay that has no real relevance in any logical discussion and is an indicator that you are afraid to claim these as your own feelings because you are afraid that no one will believ anything you say unless you validate it with invented "people at your church". i, for one, am sick of it. if you feel that abortion is wrong, fine. you are entitled to that opinion. but the bottom line is that exerting your will on other people is what is really wrong. if you would look deeper into your argument, you would realize the hypocritical nature of it. How is it that it is wrong for a woman to abort a pregnancy, thereby dictating the fate of another individual, but it's okay for YOU to tell this woman what to do with her own life? explain to me the logic of this. i don't see it. you are saying that one form of forceable decision is right, while another is wrong. you are simply not makig a whole lot of sense. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------------------------------ End of eda-thoughts-digest V3 #170 **********************************