From: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org (eda-thoughts-digest) To: eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Subject: eda-thoughts-digest V3 #154 Reply-To: eda-thoughts@smoe.org Sender: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk eda-thoughts-digest Saturday, April 22 2000 Volume 03 : Number 154 * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * eda-thoughts-digest-request@smoe.org with ONLY * the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: eda-thoughts-digest V3 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. Today's Subjects: ----------------- ET: (no subject) [Spacelily3@aol.com] ET: in praise of depression [Katherine Alexandra ] ET: animal farm ;) [shivergirl ] ET: escaping yerself [shivergirl ] Re: ET: Re: you'r shameless [shivergirl ] Re: ET: the vision statement of eda-thoughts [DPS8315@aol.com] ET: stuff ["stephen" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:15:11 EDT From: Spacelily3@aol.com Subject: ET: (no subject) In a message dated 4/21/00 11:29:24 AM Central Daylight Time, Cassidy831@aol.com writes: << But for one, you have no idea who I am I would say that is a hypocritical statement toward Joe therfore you have not a clue who he is so why are you all bashing him for such an insane reason? She stated her opnion about how the population was overcrowded so Joe merely stated his opnion about this topic as well. This is such nonscene of all of you, taking this statement beyond serious. I know suicide is not an intelligent way out but if some one you do not even know says something of the such you shouldn't overestimate it to the extent of stupidity! We have heard you all your abhorrent comments about this yet I beleive we are tired of your crying pity. Sorry if this may offend anyone in any way but i am stating my opnion as you all have done to this subject therefore I have my right. Please let's just end this whole thing! *Jes* ***Turning tears into oceans, words into sand*** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 21:34:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Katherine Alexandra Subject: ET: in praise of depression just like everyone, i have cried from the depths. i have felt worthless, out of control, afraid,scared, angry, hurt....and i have also felt happy, blissful, excited, thrilled, delighted... funny isnt it? life is really about all of these collective experiances. this is in praise of depression. read any russian novel, depression is a strong undrelined theme (esp. war and peace), but it reminds you of the beauty in depression. we can't always be having our days. my father once told me, when he saw that i was sad, and it was beyond being sad...i would stay up, heaven's knows i still do, vomitting, shaking, reliving memories. my father, who is my best friend, told me that it is so important to go through the storm, to fight it, to hide during it, to find refuge, bc it is part of the human experiance. i was only 15, i didn't fully understand. i had just moved to florida from europe, i felt out of place in my own country. but now i know what his words meant. here i'll say it, there has been incest. this sort of thing doesn't leave your bones, it's dirty, wrong, taboo. it's everything my family isn't. but is. i'm not going to get into detail about this, but my reaction to it has been sex, drugs, partying, writing, screaming, crying, vomitting, and now, actualy slowly, talking about it. only recently have these memories been haunting me on a weekly basis. and only recnetly did i realize my memory wasn't distorted and it wasn't all in my mind. sometimes we need to trust our gut. but i have spent many nights shaking, i have contemplated death, i have felt so fucking alone, far, disconnected, numb. i have called my boyfriend in fits of pure hate. he has listened to me puke. my legs shake when i talk about this. i can't help it. but they shake. but there is such beauty that comes from depression, we must not forget that. depression is a part of life, it's a part of living.....simply living is so unbearable, it's soul-destroying....someone got shot today, someones dad was murdered, someone killed someone in a car accident, pain...deep pain that makes your insides come out, the sort of pain that makes you question life, that my friend is important. you see, there are pure moments of brilliance, and this is what keeps me going. there are moments when everything is connected, when things fall into place, when people feel at peace....yes, there is war, rape, murder, incest, sexual abuse, mania, hate....but it is part of who we are, it shapes nations, changes peoples, alters beliefs....depression is needed. we have all felt it, and if you haven't, you will. what i hate the most is when people say, "it will be ok". because i know it will, but at the moment, it's not. depression is part of the process of handling trauma, it makes us reflect on who we are, and those moments of brilliance are noticed. although when i am screaming, and yes, i scream from deep within me during those bad nights, i understand why i am screaming. and i know without that screaming, i would never be able to come to terms with life.which is so fasinating and frustrating. love, kat __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? 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Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 21:34:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Katherine Alexandra Subject: ET: in praise of depression just like everyone, i have cried from the depths. i have felt worthless, out of control, afraid,scared, angry, hurt....and i have also felt happy, blissful, excited, thrilled, delighted... funny isnt it? life is really about all of these collective experiances. this is in praise of depression. read any russian novel, depression is a strong undrelined theme (esp. war and peace), but it reminds you of the beauty in depression. we can't always be having our days. my father once told me, when he saw that i was sad, and it was beyond being sad...i would stay up, heaven's knows i still do, vomitting, shaking, reliving memories. my father, who is my best friend, told me that it is so important to go through the storm, to fight it, to hide during it, to find refuge, bc it is part of the human experiance. i was only 15, i didn't fully understand. i had just moved to florida from europe, i felt out of place in my own country. but now i know what his words meant. here i'll say it, there has been incest. this sort of thing doesn't leave your bones, it's dirty, wrong, taboo. it's everything my family isn't. but is. i'm not going to get into detail about this, but my reaction to it has been sex, drugs, partying, writing, screaming, crying, vomitting, and now, actualy slowly, talking about it. only recently have these memories been haunting me on a weekly basis. and only recnetly did i realize my memory wasn't distorted and it wasn't all in my mind. sometimes we need to trust our gut. but i have spent many nights shaking, i have contemplated death, i have felt so fucking alone, far, disconnected, numb. i have called my boyfriend in fits of pure hate. he has listened to me puke. my legs shake when i talk about this. i can't help it. but they shake. but there is such beauty that comes from depression, we must not forget that. depression is a part of life, it's a part of living.....simply living is so unbearable, it's soul-destroying....someone got shot today, someones dad was murdered, someone killed someone in a car accident, pain...deep pain that makes your insides come out, the sort of pain that makes you question life, that my friend is important. you see, there are pure moments of brilliance, and this is what keeps me going. there are moments when everything is connected, when things fall into place, when people feel at peace....yes, there is war, rape, murder, incest, sexual abuse, mania, hate....but it is part of who we are, it shapes nations, changes peoples, alters beliefs....depression is needed. we have all felt it, and if you haven't, you will. what i hate the most is when people say, "it will be ok". because i know it will, but at the moment, it's not. depression is part of the process of handling trauma, it makes us reflect on who we are, and those moments of brilliance are noticed. although when i am screaming, and yes, i scream from deep within me during those bad nights, i understand why i am screaming. and i know without that screaming, i would never be able to come to terms with life.which is so fasinating and frustrating. love, kat __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? 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Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:43:18 -0400 From: shivergirl Subject: ET: the vision statement of eda-thoughts to me, anyways, is both a forum for sharing beautiful poh-etry and debating thought-provoking questions and issues..and i think, at kat's urging, we have gotten to know each other a whole lot better (or worse, in some cases). and i wouldn't trade hiding behind obscure words just for the chance not to let sparks or tempers fly..occasionally, not all the time, or i agree, it does get a wee bit overwhelmingly non-poh-etic and unencouraging to share thought-pictures. as for the spirit of the list dying, i have to disagree, although most unfortunately, with dearest annie, who wrote a lovely biography, i belatedly admit. :) it takes adversity and struggle and non-peaceful times sometimes to shape and figure out what we're all about, and i think we've done that, in the past couple of days, quite effectively. and i will get angry with people if their different beliefs border on unjustified, unprovoked personal attacks from little minds with no more power than the shield of a faceless medium. ~tara~ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:43:42 -0400 From: shivergirl Subject: ET: animal farm ;) you mean it's not possible i was some kinda animal in a previous life? ;) (half-joking) who's to say, hmmm? i would have no problem having been a polar bear (maybe it spawned my handle? :), or a bird or a lioness or a white tiger or any other member of the cat family. :) i've been known to drink melt and use my claws and see in the dark... Cassidy831@aol.com wrote: > > > Look here Sir, great opening :) > I'm terribly sorry you told someone to kill herself. I'm sorry > that everyone thinks you're an asshole for it. why are you the one apologizing, even if only as a literary device?i wouldn't associate myself with those trangressions at all. > But for one, you have no idea > who I am, and two, I have not once jumped all over you for acting like an 11 > year old. you have more control over yourself, cassie, than many of the rest of us. :) > The fact that you're attacking my wonderfully correct statements > :o) with words like fuckhead...well obviously you know what you did was wrong > and you are just pissed off because everyone is yelling at you for being a > moron. Now, you're completely defensive, and finding tiny little ways to piss > people off. amen. :) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:43:34 -0400 From: shivergirl Subject: ET: escaping yerself if you've never been stuck under the bell jar, count yerself damn lucky. and don't talk about it like you know something. you don't. unless you've lost someone (or nearly lost someone) to the terrible, most-likely life-long melancholia that some of us are born with, in my humble opinion, you should shut your shite up. like annie, sam and some others (mostly girls on this list?), i have come too perilously close to ending it all too many times to confirm that everything was, is, or will ever be, totally completely OK. and despite what james writes, having admittely never been there himself (thankfully), it's not a weak-minded last feeble, gutless action. that's the blanket statement of those who don't understand, and have been taught or conditioned to view depression and prolly most other mental illnesses as something trivial and easily-solveable as the common cold. something you can just shake off eventually; maybe take some natural shit and listen to some stern-talking parent or other well-meaning friend/relative, and everything will be better eventually--because, after all--what could be worrying some surburban girl with no major visable, life-threatening crises? well, i'll tell you. a _whole_ fucking lot. i remember having a wonderful, thought-exchanging, probing conversation with stephen on this list that touched on this, and it was so comforting to find people out there who don't sit there and condemn and offer harsh, easy, judgemental statements about how evil these suicide-people are, how they're incredibly selfish and gumption-les and such.... where is the compassion, people? where is the empathy? just because you (and i'm not targeting anyone specifically here, but society) walk around relatively mentally-healthy, you think it makes you a big, superior person to ostracize others whom medical professionals call the "walking wounded"? i don't know too much about the old personality humours we learned about in psych, but i still believe in certain, general dispositional tendencies and types, and i think a melancholic one does exist. and it's not always necessarily gonna lead to killing yourself. count the number of people on this list who are living proof. and just because you talk about it, it doesn't mean you won't do it. that's a myth. i belive there's lots of brave people out there who are courageously facing life and who prolly go on to lead happy, fulfilling lives...it's like having a learning disorder or ms or something; you learn to live with it and make the best of it, but it doesn't make it easy to always forget it or that you have it, even if you're not aware of it at every single moment of every single day. so, yeah, to wrap up, i agree that suicide, depression, bi-polar disorder, s.a.d., anything to do with synapes and neurons and seratonin and such is hardly bullshit or trivial, easily cast aside as something wimpy people need to "get over" or stop whining about. it's an ailment, an illness, like any "real" physical one you hear about--just more sinister and complex given its invisible, ugly nature. i'll never agree that suicide is wimpy, either. what about people who want euthanasia when they're dying of some terrible disease? i'm not gonna argue that assisted suicide for depressives should be made available, or that it's even right, because i don't believe that, but i think it's human nature to want to put an end to suffering when it's possible. if you wanna educate yerself and are ever looking for a book with point, check out ~prozac nation~ or ~the bell jar.~ i highly recommend them. taRA. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:44:41 -0400 From: shivergirl Subject: Re: ET: Re: you'r shameless it's funny, really, how this message/flame to me got recycled, when he originally sent it to me personally... guess he figured i needed to be cyber-whipped in front of everyone....since he likes the idea of restraint... ;) there were some good "gems" in here, though. too bad no heart. > And you should try being open-minded, you'll find it's quite educational. open-minded was reading his messages. the stuff inside was regression. > > > > Have you ever thought that sex > > isn't something constantly running through everyone's mind > > never. ;)oops! but i'm a GIRL! i ferget! do girls do that??? can they think > that? > _do_ they think? > > Hmm, I suppose that is a legitimate question coming from some of the ladies > on this list. sexism, sexism. least we proved les chicas are a formidle force when the need arises, with the help of some modern men. :) > > > > while they are > > hanging out with their friends? > > of course it's not uppermost on everyone's minds; no one's saying it is; > we're > just saying that maybe it's crossed your mind at least ONCE in the entire > duration of the friendship.like a blip, or something, if it's too hard to > admit a > full-fledged cognition. > > Yes, many times. aha! a breakthrough! an admission. :) > The > > reason guys don't do that isn't because society forbids them to, it's cause > > they don't want to. > > talk about brainwashing doing the trick.. > > I know! How dare anyone have an opinion outside of yours! They should be > shipped to Cuba! well, i _may_ be going there soon.... :)and it would be a whole lot more likely if there wasn't that political shit goin on..could someone american please explain to me the roots and reasons for the mess?? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 01:31:23 EDT From: DPS8315@aol.com Subject: Re: ET: the vision statement of eda-thoughts In a message dated 4/21/00 11:41:30 PM US Eastern Standard Time, tstevens@ican.net writes: > it takes adversity and struggle and non-peaceful times sometimes to shape and > figure out what we're all about, and i think we've done that, in the past > couple of > days, quite effectively. wonderful rebuttal dear, publically commended. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 01:42:00 -0400 From: "stephen" Subject: ET: stuff First I'd like to tell the majority of the list to shut up... Second If the regurgitation of stuff keeps going round and round i'm off the list. Third I know no one cares. Fourthly.. i don't care either Five.. I really feel for the ones who are speaking out to the list from thier problems.. the suicide and the like. Suicide.. Is not selfish.. Is not for the weak.. and God did not keep me here... (atleast not directly) because i'm not sure if i believe in all that religious stuff.. Sucide... IS.. an answer.. I just think life holds better ones. ------------------------------ End of eda-thoughts-digest V3 #154 **********************************