From: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org (eda-thoughts-digest) To: eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Subject: eda-thoughts-digest V3 #145 Reply-To: eda-thoughts@smoe.org Sender: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk eda-thoughts-digest Wednesday, April 19 2000 Volume 03 : Number 145 * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * eda-thoughts-digest-request@smoe.org with ONLY * the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: eda-thoughts-digest V3 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. Today's Subjects: ----------------- ET: "just call me shameless" [shivergirl ] ET: welcome cassie! :) [shivergirl ] ET: writing prompts [shivergirl ] Re: ET: Ricky Lake...... ["Chris Sylvester" ] Re: ET: #140, gays, religion, aids, kara [shivergirl ] ET: writing exercises [kara garbe ] Re: ET: Ricky Lake...... [kara garbe ] ET: Re: birth control [RedWoodenBeads@aol.com] ET: Re: overpopulation [RedWoodenBeads@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:36:12 -0400 From: shivergirl Subject: ET: "just call me shameless" RedWoodenBeads@aol.com wrote: (some very insulting and borderline-nasty stuff critiquing summer or sam or kat, i can't member..but here's a rebuttal) > Your post was rather interesting, it was fucking nail right on the head, was what it was.thank you very much whoever wrote it, sorry i'm not naming names, it's been a long day. ;) > in that it seemed to be completely focused > on sexuality as a constant aspect of life. no..um, it was proposing that everyone has same-sex thoughts or tendencies, at least at some point in their life; which is completely natural and likely and OK. you wouldn't think it would be a mind-boggling or overly inflammatory or even RADICAL thing to say in this day and age, but, apparently it is...no one's posing as a modern freud on this list, they're just thinking outside of the conventional, force-fed sexuality box. you might try it sometime; it's quite liberating. > Have you ever thought that sex > isn't something constantly running through everyone's mind never. ;)oops! but i'm a GIRL! i ferget! do girls do that??? can they think that? _do_ they think? > while they are > hanging out with their friends? of course it's not uppermost on everyone's minds; no one's saying it is; we're just saying that maybe it's crossed your mind at least ONCE in the entire duration of the friendship.like a blip, or something, if it's too hard to admit a full-fledged cognition. > You say: "why can't they (guys) touch each > other other than to hit each other or high-five?". a valid question, one i still don't see an answer for, except in the form of avoidance. > Who says they want to? football players? > The > reason guys don't do that isn't because society forbids them to, it's cause > they don't want to. talk about brainwashing doing the trick.. > I don't understand what it is with all of you saying > "well, everyone has same-sex attractions at some point", because I never > have, then i think you're in denial. or abnormal. ;) > and I doubt a huge number of people really have either. i would like someone other than joe here to back him up.and maybe someone has, but i haven't read that far yet, because as the bestest kara-kara said once, (paraphrasing), this is just too fucking maddening not to reply to (i know, i know, kara, nowhere close ;) > The reason > girls touch eachother and act all "girly" (yuck!) (does macho sound any better??? don't think so...) > is because they're girls. can we tautological? > This may > be a little suprising, but there are differences between males and females, > in fact there are HUGE differences. sure, but that's a blanket statement, and what else do you have to offer cept the mars/venus characterization? because, seriously, your next point is laughable. > You can sit in front of a little boy or > little girl with a toy truck and a doll and the boy will take the truck and > the girl will take the doll. have you done this recently?ever? because besides myself as living proof (i loved cars and car garages as a kid), i work in an environment where i constantly come into contact with little people of both sexes; most recently my boss' daughter came in with her baby/stroller, but she also loves trucks, and i had a lil boy the other day who carried a doll quite proudly; i've also been witness to numberous boys under the age of five or so who absoutely love to dress up in skirts and such. > That's just how it is. no, it isn't. that's yer erroneous misconception, methinks. > Girls like to giggle and > touch and stuff that girls do, somebody please restrain me now. > guys like to hang out and slap eachother high > fives. and it's just as simple and cut-and-dried as that, isn't it?wow..wonder why i never thought of it before now... > It has nothing to do with society, it's the way people are. they're one in the same when it comes down to it, like you said, but people make rules and others follow.often never questioning why. just accepting the status quo as if it were god-given-gospel truth. how sad. > Think > about it. What is society? Is it some big monster making people act a certain > way? it's not a monster, although it does share some of the same characteristics...it's a huge influential, shaping agent. > Society is people, and people make their own society. As a general rule, > people have rejected homosexuality and embrace heterosexuality, so why has it been around for thousands of years then?why hasn't it been wiped off the face of the earth? > because > that's what they want, not because "society" makes them. bullshit. peer pressure exists at every age.it never goes away. people are pressured to be straight, and deny every single non-hetero urge. read this message, it's a case in point. > Let's get past this > illusion that society "hampers" people sexuality. no--just awareness. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:47:37 -0400 From: shivergirl Subject: ET: welcome cassie! :) first of all, lovely lil wings to indent all the previous posts. :) me digs that. :) second, james could stand to be taken down a peg or two on the smart spectrum, so don't you worry about him gettin any ideas... ;) third: > > > Alright, I've basically just skimmed through the posts about religion and > such, because I didn't want to offend anyone. oh come on, this isn't a fraidy-cat chat room where everyone's too polite to say what's really on their minds..if you have something to say, say it. :) > But, I just can't pass this one > up. Nik, I'm sorry, and I've never spoke to you in my life, but I'll tell you > right now if you actually think that there was a town full of homosexuals, > God found out and then punished them because you read it in the Bible, then > you have problems that I couldn't begin to identify. i'm sorry, but i just have to tell you the way you put this, from a language, conversational, readable point of view just made me go ahhhhhhhhhhhh. :) lovely. :) and i agree totally with your thematic thrust, too, btw. :) (sorry--it's hardly secondary. ;) > If you're just bringing > up a different view, then I'm sorry. ibid. > > > Sex is sex. Why should it matter if it's homosexual, bisexual....I mean, > I'm not saying you should run out and fuck a monkey(ew!), but come on. egg-zactly. :) > > > It is impossible to pick out each and every way that religion has > effected the way we've all grown up. I'm not talking about going to church, > or even what religion you are. The basis of society is built around church > values. good point, worth repeating. > The fact that there are people in the world who actually believe that > AIDS came from homosexuals, and that a God would not approve of the love > between two women or men makes me sick. But this is how things are, and no > amount of posting is going to change the fact that there will always be these > kinds of idiotic beliefs. maybe, maybe not, but i think as long as we're open to other people's ideas before we reject them out of hand, it's worth posting. > Phew! Well everyone sorry that my first *real* post had to be so > negative, but I couldn't resist. :o) if this is negative, i don't want to experience positive. ;)thanX, cassie. :) ~shiV ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:50:24 -0400 From: shivergirl Subject: ET: writing prompts RJonthego@aol.com wrote: > I was wondering... > > does anyone have any good writing excercises/prompts that they use? yeah, it's called Life. > I was > missing my copy of Writing Down The Bones by Natalie Goldman (a MUST read) > and thought that maybe some of you have good starters or ideas for some. that or other brilliant insightful writers like yourselves. :)i got last night's two sessions out of the back of sylvia plath's "bio" back of the book thingie... or a sign on the highway... anywhere, really. as for "official" books and shit, i have no idear.... ;) > > > just a-wonderin' just-a-answerin... > > > roya > "hey jupiter, nothing's been the same..so are you gay are you blue, thought > we both could use a friend to run to.." tori amos very apropos. ;) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:49:56 PDT From: "Chris Sylvester" Subject: Re: ET: Ricky Lake...... At least you have that. My love and I don't have a snowball's chance in hell of seeing each other for a very, very long time. (I love you baby) I know your problem sucks too, but look forward to the eventuality of being together. It's the only thing that keeps me going every day. ~Sly "You don't win a war by dying for your country. You win by making the other son of a bitch die for his." - -General Patton - ----Original Message Follows---- From: "stephen" To: "eda" Subject: ET: Ricky Lake...... Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:17:51 -0400 Sorry, but there are some of us that have more problems in our lives besides who is gay and who isn't. Or, who is pure gay and who isn't. Atleast the majority of you can be with the one you love or atleast see them every week. It has taken months of work and planning and heartache between families and friends just for my sweetheart and I to have a chance at being together for two months. And now there are just more problems pilling up in front of our eyes. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:57:02 -0400 From: shivergirl Subject: Re: ET: #140, gays, religion, aids, kara Niki wrote: > and when you > >quote the bible...does it really matter? bc if you > >dont believe in the bible, then quoting doesn't really > >change anything, ya know? > > I believe the Bible...just didn't want to offend anyone. kay, it's fine to read and believe the bible (mostly non-literally of course), and i don't think yer offending anyone to say that, but to say it's the be-all and end-all of everything on earth, in terms of rules and truth and such is pretty...limited. and what about the koran, the baghavad gita (sp?), the torah,,,, are they all out the window just because the bible's been translated more?? > > > > > >religion and gays...i think sometimes we are so afraid > >of homosexuality bc we all get those feelings. > > afraid of WHAT feelings? oh dear.SAME-SEXUAL ATTRACTION FEELINGS. THOSE FEELINGS. you may have experienced them sometime during your life, just not been aware of it, or allowed yourself to be aware of it. > I know people who are homosexual. And that's it. what do you mean, that's it? :) > They just like people of their own sex... some people argue it goes much deeper than that.i was watching dawson's a couple weeks ago when jack and his friend were talking about queerness as much more than a sexual preference, but a way of life, and i'm not certain i agree with that, but it bears discussion. > that's fine for them. ouch. can you see how condescending this is in it's "it has nothing to do with me" attitude?like you don't wanna touch it with a ten-foot pole? > > > >aids...gays creating aids? i hate that arguement. > > I said that in the Bible God sent a disease upon a community of gay men. > They all died from it. Some people believe it was an early form of AIDS. > Gays didn't create it. God created it to punish them for being gay. i think we all got the general gist..and that this is an example of something that _doesn't_ bear repeating. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:00:39 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: kara garbe Subject: ET: writing exercises roya asked about writing exercises. i think this is a GREAT topic, and i have a few cool ones that i've had assigned to me this semester. my favorite is just to write without thinking, to write for maybe 45 minutes and simply not let yourself stop. force yourself to be constantly writing down words with no pause -- this forces a lot of free association and, i think, helps you to tap into your subconscious and reach the things that come out naturally and that perhaps more slow, rational thought wouldn't let get out. i think this exercise works best if you start out with a really powerful phrase in your mind, or in a really strong emotional state, and then go from there. or, a sort of variation on this is something a friend of mine had to do in her poetry writing class. the topic was, "what are you afraid of?" and she had to do that kind of constant writing on that topic for 45 minutes, and do it once a day for 4 consecutive days. then you start to see this pattern... maybe some of the same things will come out all 4 days, and maybe those are really deep central concerns. otherwise, maybe different smaller things will come out each day, showing you what was on your mind at the moment. i think this is really cool. then, you're left with tons and tons of phrases and images... maybe you did it in prose, or in just random lines... but you probably don't do this exercise as straight poetry, because you're not *thinking* enough about it to actually create form, meter, line breaks, rhyme, whatever. even if it is in prose form, after you've done all that writing, you can take the best words and phrases and extract them and form them into a poem. it's a fun process. :) if anyone tries it, let me know how it goes! you know, maybe we could all do the same exercises, like the list could have an exercise a week, and we could all share the results... ~k > I was wondering... > > does anyone have any good writing excercises/prompts that they use? I was > missing my copy of Writing Down The Bones by Natalie Goldman (a MUST read) > and thought that maybe some of you have good starters or ideas for some. > > just a-wonderin' > > roya > "hey jupiter, nothing's been the same..so are you gay are you blue, thought > we both could use a friend to run to.." tori amos ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:05:59 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: kara garbe Subject: Re: ET: Ricky Lake...... i'm just curious, but how many net relationships are there on this list who have never met? did you guys all meet on the ET list? if so, that is so cool. it makes the list have such a homey feel just thinking about it! :) okay, 'nother question. what's keeping you people apart? who's stopping you from flying off across the country or around the globe? if you have the money, then do it. just go. if you love someone, it's worth it. sometimes things seem so impossible in your mind, and you want something so badly but think you can't do it. then one day, something snaps, and suddenly that becomes your reality. being with that person isn't a dream, it's just something that suddenly is going to happen, just like you know that when you graduate you're going to get a job, you know that in a few months you're going to be there with that person. just decide to do it, and do it, and don't let yourself question it. accept it as reality and don't ever, ever question the feasability -- just make it happen. my feeble attempt at inspiration. but honestly, we really can shape our realities that way, and we can make our dreams come true. i did it. it's possible. ~kara ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:01:34 EDT From: RedWoodenBeads@aol.com Subject: ET: Re: birth control In a message dated 4/19/00 7:22:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org writes: << Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:29:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Katherine Alexandra Subject: ET: overpopulation, gays, thoughts ok...with the overpopulation thing: YES THIS IS A HUGE PROBLEM. but it is a larger problem in underdeveloping countries bc that is where most of the growth is going on. one main reason is lack of birth control, which is becoming easier to access but because of beliefs, a lot of people feel it is "wrong" to use birth control. >> And what makes your way of life better than theirs? And no, it isn't a problem. no longer cradled in gravity's memory still in and spinning in spiral drifts of endlessness spinning in torment into the garden of light - -Pale Saints "A Thousand Stars Burst Open" http://www.chickpages.com/musicmania/joepages ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:03:09 EDT From: RedWoodenBeads@aol.com Subject: ET: Re: overpopulation In a message dated 4/19/00 7:22:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org writes: << the most common situation now, i believe in brazil, is that women have to secretly take birth control or their husbands hit them and get angry. all the husbands? every single one of them? they believe this is against the bible and they are very religious. what can we do about it? Maybe you should respect their religion and not try to force your beliefs on them. mainly just education and wider accessibility towards birth control. but it is a problem bc we are overwhelming the planet. WE REALLY DONT NEED THIS MANY PEOPLE. >> Well why don't you be the first to help with this problem. Kill yourself. no longer cradled in gravity's memory still in and spinning in spiral drifts of endlessness spinning in torment into the garden of light - -Pale Saints "A Thousand Stars Burst Open" http://www.chickpages.com/musicmania/joepages ------------------------------ End of eda-thoughts-digest V3 #145 **********************************