From: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org (eda-thoughts-digest) To: eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Subject: eda-thoughts-digest V3 #143 Reply-To: eda-thoughts@smoe.org Sender: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk eda-thoughts-digest Wednesday, April 19 2000 Volume 03 : Number 143 * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * eda-thoughts-digest-request@smoe.org with ONLY * the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: eda-thoughts-digest V3 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. Today's Subjects: ----------------- ET: hey... [Nicole ] ET: Re: overpopulation [RedWoodenBeads@aol.com] ET: Re: they gay talk goes on [RedWoodenBeads@aol.com] ET: Flourish and Language of Flowers [RedWoodenBeads@aol.com] ET: god and gays [Katherine Alexandra ] ET: to say it all... [Mango Ara ] ET: oops [Mango Ara ] Re: ET: Re: overpopulation [Summer Burton ] Re: ET: Re: hetero? homo? ["~* cymbaline *~" ] Re: ET: to say it all... ["~* cymbaline *~" ] Re: ET: Re: overpopulation ["Kevin Pease" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 00:50:27 -0700 From: Nicole Subject: ET: hey... hey guys...just wanted to say goodbye...between work and school i can't = keep up with all these emails! but if anyone wants to email me = privately feel free...my email is nik22@drexel.edu. naomi and tara and = seth please keep sending me your poetry! as for everyone else, well i = don't really know anyone else "personally" enough, so i hope you don't = take offense. and kat, you can send me some interesting stuff if you = want too, cause you have some great thoughts girl! talk to you all = soon...have a great easter! nicole ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:57:14 EDT From: RedWoodenBeads@aol.com Subject: ET: Re: overpopulation In a message dated 4/19/00 4:33:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org writes: << gays...alrighty...THEY HELP THE POPULATION. we have way too many people on earth. >> The over-population thing just isn't legit. There aren't as many people in the world as the EPA would have us think. In addition, a heterosexual couple bringing children into the world is never a problem. Every human being is of infinite value, and there are never "too many". no longer cradled in gravity's memory still in and spinning in spiral drifts of endlessness spinning in torment into the garden of light - -Pale Saints "A Thousand Stars Burst Open" http://www.chickpages.com/musicmania/joepages ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:02:36 EDT From: RedWoodenBeads@aol.com Subject: ET: Re: they gay talk goes on In a message dated 4/19/00 4:33:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org writes: << I know plenty of straight people who contracted AIDS, and lived a very unhappy life before they died. Maybe we should just not have sex at all?? :) I have a problem with people saying that a child needs a male and female role model, or however you want to say it. My father wasn't around for most of my childhood. What about my friends who were reared in a single parent relationship? Should the state not allow someone to be reared in a single parent environment? That is only one gender being represented in their life. Namaste, Jon >> For one thing, the true act of sexual union between a man and a woman is completely different from sodomy and the practices of homosexuals. There is a clear difference: the lovemaking between a man and woman brings children into the world, where as sexual perversions don't bing any type of life into existance. If gay sex is equal to the heterosexual union, then why not sex with goats, or how about sex with trees or sex with telephone poles? I simply deisagree. Children are much more secure and tend to be happier when raised in a male/female two parent home. That's been proven through studies time and time again my friend. no longer cradled in gravity's memory still in and spinning in spiral drifts of endlessness spinning in torment into the garden of light - -Pale Saints "A Thousand Stars Burst Open" http://www.chickpages.com/musicmania/joepages ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:42:23 EDT From: RedWoodenBeads@aol.com Subject: ET: Flourish and Language of Flowers Here's something of mine..... It's a bit silly, but oh well ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Flourish She said I'm sorry sir But I know nothing at all Look closely at my eyes You'll see they're crying I sit all day by the pond And watch shadows darting by Through the iron-ore stained Clear waters And so now she and he Went walking down the road And they told tales of the antidotes Long taken So the story was weaved Polished and told And it's lying somewhere In rocks where moss grows Because of yellow bees And mental ease I recommend you wander Somewhere down the road To be happy and enlightened Every secret known She stood there Tossing roses from her window Oh my dear, I can see That you have found company In your music and you Poems and your stories For an artist's breath Has breathed in this house So declare now in all passion You shall never leave it Oh my darling, where are your roses now? Where have you laid your precious roses now? In two weeks or twenty days Let us go to where we're happy Let us find secrets locked deep behind the trees In a playful make belief As she walks through the trees Her hair falls everywhere and All through the air He skin like flowers in bloom Her breath like violet perfume Her perfect eyes are set Aside a perfect nose In her smile of rose You'll find everything I know And it rests beautifully Where moss grows ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Now I would like to share with you lyrics to a song by Pale Saints from their album The Comforts of Madness. It is called, "Language of Flowers". Language of Flowers (masters) see me a snapshot narrating my previous lives and a mountain of all their lies numbers and letters surfacing from a sea of treackle blackened stone and carrying me back home i hear the language of flowers and now i don't hear anything else voices from nowhere seducing me to all the lyrics of the world my balance has been disturbed time stumbles drunkenly while lives are frozen until they're born again ripening in the sun i hear the language of flowers and now i don't hear anything else i wasn't cut out for this but my heart was i wasn't cut out for this no longer cradled in gravity's memory still in and spinning in spiral drifts of endlessness spinning in torment into the garden of light - -Pale Saints "A Thousand Stars Burst Open" http://www.chickpages.com/musicmania/joepages ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 08:37:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Katherine Alexandra Subject: ET: god and gays > > Not saying i agree or disagree with what anyone has > said so far about this > topic but I'm going to throw in something connecting > this topic and the > religion topic. In the Bible, God punished a town > full of homosexuals. > Some people seem to think this is where aids came > from...like an early > version of it... Just wondering what everyone > thinks of that ok....this has been annoying me. out of curisity, would god actualy punish a town due to homosexuality? that doesn't seem very compassionate at all, that seems to be against everything i have been told that god stands for, it seems a bit sick and twisted. god making aids to punish gays. well, if he did this (which i dont think he did), then he really screwed up on that one..... kat __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:23:13 -0700 From: Mango Ara Subject: ET: to say it all... ...or very little... ~~ summer: i am so glad you actually and finally said something. mwah babe. i love you. ok. honestly, i think everyone is bi. now don't everyone jump way the hell all over me! it was just the first thing that came to mind. man...i don't even know how i would start getting into this topic. anyone remember last year, all those big discussions? i remember how interesting they were. and the intense headache they created by getting in the middle of them! :) um... i have never actually done anything with a girl. people have thought i was lesbian, (strangers,) cause my friends and i are physical. we just aren't that inhibited. we have the mindset of, "WE know what's going on with us, WE're secure in that, so who gives a shit what they all think?" we walk around with our arms around each other, or holding hands, or whatever—and it doesn't really matter all that much. what i meant by "everyone is bi" is, i highly doubt that someone has absolutely never, ever been in some way attracted to the opposite sex. some people flip out and are like, "oh my god, i'm gay!" (as if that's a bad thing, but i won't get into that.) but come on now. i mean, i can think girls are pretty, dig some girls more than others, or whatever—it may mean something and it may not. this culture is so so so incredibly stressed out about gender roles. i agree with whoever was saying this...that girls are allowed to be much more open than men. why can't guys ever say other guys are hot? they end up saying "well i don't notice that stuff," but then why don't they notice it? why can't they touch each other other than to hit each other or high-five? the standards are so vastly different, and i must say that in this case i think we women have the better hand. i can BE physical with my girl friends, (and guy friends too, though that can be different,) without being bi/gay/whatever. so maybe what i mean is, i think everyone has bi tendencies. on the other hand, who really cares? i guess you have to be really secure in who you are to accept who you turn out to be. and in this society, they sure as hell don't want anyone to be secure if they're gay. which i find extremely disturbing. another thing is, gays and AIDS? come on, AIDS didn't come from gays. it pisses me off when the bible becomes the groundwork for people's discriminations...the bible teaches a lot of incredible and insightful things, and tells some great stories, but the "we should eat meat," "we should hate gays," "men over women," etc. arguments that some people pull just go too far. i'm probably stepping on toes here. but this isn't against christians -if you're christian, that's great, cool. just be a good one, not a pain in the ass :) also, i know a lot of gays who would be really offended if you told them that they can "choose to be gay". no one really knows why people are gay -as i said, i think everyone in some way has tendencies, and that's not bad, either. love, caring for the person, sensuality, it's all a good thing. it's our mindset and bias as a culture that makes us fight against who we turn out to be. think about it. every person has at least in some way been taught to hate themselves, or want to be other than who they are. anyway, back to what i was saying. there are these so-called "converts" from "the land of being gay" —that's a bunch of crap. i just find it heart breaking that someone could be taught to feel so dirty, wrong, so hateful, that they would work that hard to be otherwise. these people go around preaching to schools about how to "stop being gay". but from what i hear, it isn't something you can choose. and i hate it that people should want to. i know that's the way things are, believe me i do, it's how we are all structured in this OH SAY CAN YOU SEE country. but really. the people i've known say, "yeah, if it was something we could choose, we'd be straight right now, because we can't --walk down the street, --look at someone of the opposite sex, --etc. without feeling bad or being afraid." you name it. but should they have to feel that way? NO. it's so wrong. anyway. there i go again. so, i guess i agree with jon/kat/etc. about the "hetero/homo/bi" line thing. what it comes down to is, i think love between two people is a beautiful thing. between two PEOPLE. you can try out different stuff, and see what levels feel right for you. hell, some people don't like men OR women. now let's think about that one. ~samara - -- Diva-to-be curvy exterior volcanic interior ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:06:01 -0700 From: Mango Ara Subject: ET: oops "what i meant by "everyone is bi" is, i highly doubt that someone has absolutely never, ever been in some way attracted to the opposite sex. " obviously, i meant the same sex. not the opposite sex. crap. i'm such an idiot :) so if i said that like, more than once--um, that's not what i meant. dammit! - -- Diva-to-be curvy exterior volcanic interior ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:14:58 -0700 From: Summer Burton Subject: Re: ET: Re: overpopulation RedWoodenBeads@aol.com wrote: > The over-population thing just isn't legit. There aren't as many people in > the world as the EPA would have us think. Oh pray tell, give us your sources... where can you prove that there aren't over 6 billion people in the world? Who says that, other than you? How did they get their information? Why is the EPA lying? > In addition, a heterosexual couple > bringing children into the world is never a problem. Every human being is of > infinite value, and there are never "too many". Every LIFE is of infinite value, and by overrunning the world with our species, we're bringing down many more, who are just as valuable (objectively) as our life. We can't sustain ourselves like this very long, so I guess you're saying that everyone having kids (and not adopting) now should be able to because those children's lives have value, but 400 or 1,000 years from now when the human race destroys itself, those lives that will be lost AREN'T valuable? I don't neccesarilly think that individuals in American choosing not to have one or two kids helps much, but not considering the population explosion a problem is ridiculous. - -- Summer Anne summer@boingyboingy.com summer@nbtsc.org voicemail: (512) 682-6988, ext. 5331 webmaster: boingyboingy.com writer: planetgirl.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:12:56 GMT From: "~* cymbaline *~" Subject: Re: ET: Re: hetero? homo? >When I was like 12/13, I used to compete in horse-backriding competitions, >and one of my trainers was a gay man. He really led a fairly unhappy life, >contracting AIDS and all, and finally dying a rather painful death. It was >trully a horrible thing, and it was devestating. He never spoke of his >sexuality, accept on his death bed. He said: "The gay life just isn't any >good. I hope nobody else has to live through this". I HATE THAT STEREOTYPE! Just vecause your gay, does not mean you'll contract AIDS. Just because you have AIDS does not mean you are gay. I'm sick of people saying "Gays get AIDS". In all actuality, someone who's gay, can contract AIDS! Someone who's straight can contract AIDS! Its not one's sexuality, but one's acts that make them contract AIDS. Whether it be unprotected sex, unsterilized needle, AIDS infected blood getting into another's bloodstream. But it has nothing to do w/ sexual preference. Somone who's gay can get it just as much as someone who's not. That man didn't get AIDS because he was gay. He couldve been straight and still contracted it/ Kelly ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:31:18 GMT From: "~* cymbaline *~" Subject: Re: ET: to say it all... >also, i know a lot of gays who would be really offended if you told them >that they >can "choose to be gay". no one really knows why people are gay Well, I can't speak for my brother... but this is why I think he's gay. When we were growing up, my dad was a drunk, and short tempered. He acted out very violently towards my brother, until he was 16 or 17. My dad doesn't act that way anymore to any of us (he's more verbal now. Not physical). So... I think my brother is seeking what may have been missing while he was growing up. A man fathertype figure... ya know? Even though he and my dad are on good term now... The same thing can go if a guy was abused or neglected by his mother. Maybe he doesn't trust women because of that? (same way for chicks... abused, neglected by mom... needs mother figure, abused by male... doesn't trust men) Peace, kelly ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:50:08 EDT From: "Kevin Pease" Subject: Re: ET: Re: overpopulation RedWoodenBeads@aol.com writes: >The over-population thing just isn't legit. There aren't as many >people in the world as the EPA would have us think. First... what does the Environmental Protection Agency have to do with overpopulation? My impression is that it's groups like ZPG (Zero Population Growth), and other "nonprofits" that are worried about the population. I've yet to see an EPA flyer telling me not to have kids... Can the earth handle a few more people? Certainly. Overpopulation is not a critical issue _today_. It's possible to produce enough food to feed everyone, the problem isn't so much "inability to grow food" as it is "inability to purchase or import food". We're talking distribution of wealth, not a lack of farmland. However, can the earth handle the sustained exponential growth of the human population? Nope. At some point in the not-too-distant future (possibly within our lifetime...), if the population continues to grow at the rate it's growing at now, we will see a whole lot of ugly & nasty pandemics, wars, famines, riots, etc. etc. Why? Several reasons: as the gap between the "haves" and "have nots" grows, the "have nots" will get more numerous & angry about being "have nots". You'll start to see lots of small regional wars break out -- civil wars ("I want what the rich people of my country have"), border skirmishes ("I want the good farmland you have"), etc. In addition, as people deforest & clear land for building homes, etc., you're going to see a lot of new disease cropping up, simply because people will be in more constant contact with viruses & bacteria that they previously weren't exposed to, or maybe 1 in 100million people was exposed to. Once a really virulent disease hits the international airlines, it'll get even more ugly. And it's not even necessarily something like Ebola, or Hanta... the flu did a hell of a job on millions of people worldwide back in the early 1900's, and that's _just_ the flu. Stuff like this will start to become more common. Do we need to stop the population from growing? Nope. Do we need to control it, and plan growth sensibly? You bet. >In addition, a >heterosexual couple bringing children into the world is never a >problem. Every human being is of infinite value, and there are >never "too many". ?? It's never a problem? What about the poor families in third world countries who don't have the money or resources to support 8 children, yet they have them anyway. I'd call that a problem. Which would you consider a "better" thing, or "less" of a problem: - A child being born into filth & squalor to a heterosexual couple who cannot support the child, where he/she is forced to spend his/her life scrabbling for food, shelter, and money, and dies by the time he or she is 25 from disease or violence? - A child being adopted by a homosexual couple who can support the child, nurture it, care and provide for him/her with all of the necessary comforts, so that he or she grows up a happy, healthy, productive member of society? Personally, I'd say the first one is a lot more of a problem. Yes, there are possible psychological issues for the child involved with a homosexual couple raising a child; However, there's a lot more issues in a heterosexual couple having a child, and then more or less turning it loose on the world with no education, no skills, no means of survival... basically, that child is born with a death sentence. But that's just me, I guess. :) - ---------- Kevin Pease kbpease@concentric.net ICQ UIN: 3106063 AOL IM: kbpease "Everybody asks me how she's doing / Has she really lost her mind? / I say, 'Hey, I couldn't tell you, I've lost mine. . . '" -----{Dave Matthews Band, "Pay For What You Get"}----- ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of eda-thoughts-digest V3 #143 **********************************