From: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org (eda-thoughts-digest) To: eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Subject: eda-thoughts-digest V3 #133 Reply-To: eda-thoughts@smoe.org Sender: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk eda-thoughts-digest Friday, April 14 2000 Volume 03 : Number 133 * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * eda-thoughts-digest-request@smoe.org with ONLY * the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: eda-thoughts-digest V3 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. Today's Subjects: ----------------- ET: Religion has nothing to do with Jesus ["Janadell" Subject: ET: Religion has nothing to do with Jesus I sent this afew days ago and it didn't come through to the list so here = goes again... G'day there everyone I have been lurking for 3 years now and this is the first time I have = come out of the woodwork. I love some of the creativity I see here - the = pure emotion and humanity. Thank you all! The reason I am posting is that I really wanted to respond to Windex's = post. I am very behind on my email so here is an exerpt to refresh your = memories.. > Okay Im not look to offend anyone...I got the first part in an email = and > this is what I thought. I know you guys are openm to everything so I = would > love to hear your thoughts. OK? Are you with me? I should probably read some more emails before I = reply to this - maybe someone else has already said what I want to say...If = that is the case then *shrug* that's life in virtual land :o) >I will say the > Bible is one of the greatest, if not the greatest books of all time Obviously then you are familiar with the Bible. Think back to some of = the things Jesus said regarding the religious leaders of the day and their hipocrosy. Jesus wasn't about rules, he was about forgiveness. He condemned the 'pharisees' of the day (ie religious leaders) for their = lack of compassion and pedantic law-making and law-keeping. >Parents are bowing down and leaving priests, bishops and other members = of religions to teach their children right and wrong when parents are the = ones that should be doing this. As a mother of three I agree with you here. >We have left this alone for to long and the results have become a bunch = of people that are trying to runs or thoughts and our minds. Think about what you are saying here.."a bunch of people" yes EXACTLY! = A bunch of people not GOD. The church isn't God. We can blame the church = for alot - after all they are just "a bunch of people" - alot of the time = what the church says has nothing whatsoever to do with what God says. Plus = there are alot of different churches out there - which ones exactly are you condemning? I am a Christian - Jesus Christ is my Lord and saviour, but = I think 'religion' is a dirty word. Honestly. Don't blame God for = mistakes made by some of us mere mortals. > Why are we so afraid to give our children condoms and birth control? = What is going to happen, since the school are giving them condoms they aren't going to get pregnant. Be proud of responsibility and the act of love, = not scared of it. I don't believe that wanting our kids to make wise choices is about = being afraid. It is about wanting what is best for them emotionally, = physically, and spiritually. You speak highly of responsibility...but having sex involves more than just feeling good, and avoiding *"diseases and having = more children", and certainly falls a long way short of your description of = "the act of love" more often than not. In some ways by taking away these possibilities*, were are encouraging more promiscuity. When people have = sex, there is a big possibility they will be hurt emotionally, especially if = they are too immature to handle a sexual relationship. You may think it's a great thing for teenagers to be liberated sexually, free contraception = and all that.. and that is your right. But don't take away from other = peoples rights to want some input into big decisions their teenage kids make...I don't believe that encouraging kids to make decisions about sex and = abortion behinds their parent's back is in their best interest. >We spend so much time blaming other people that it is inconceivable = that it could be the people in their lives. On the contrary, feeling guilty is a big part of being a parent. I = don't know if there are many parents out there who would try to blame their = kid's mistakes on others - in my experience parents tend to take on 'too much' responsibility and guilt on their kids behalf, rather than not enough. = But I agree with you that we should spend more time looking to ourselves = for the answers, not blaming others. >Judge not lest ye be judged yourself. Jesus actually said this. >What have you done wrong? What are you doing that you shouldn't? The = church leaders said kiss > the ground we walk on and we did it. They said come to church every = day and do all these things but remember your family. May I suggest that if the leaders of the church you are referring to = said you had to kiss the ground they walk on, they had things dreadfully = wrong. You were going to the wrong church. But please don't hold that against God...it had nothing to do with Him. >But, didn't they say love thy neighbor as thyself? > They said do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Jesus was also the author of these comments. The church or whoever = "they" are that you are referring to are simply quoting Him, perhaps we are all hypocrites? God knows we are only human - but He loves us anyway. When = we start trying to boss each other around he must laugh :o) I challenge = you that you have not met the real Jesus - the Jesus that is alive today. = The Jesus that has already stood trial for our sins and taken the punishment upon Himself, even though he was sinless. Read the Gospels with an open mind - you may be surprised by the true character of the Jesus you meet there. The one who said "But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." Mat 9:13 This same Jesus had authority to rebuke storms, heal the sick and raise = the dead. (including himself). He made outrageous claims about = himself.....he claimed to be without sin, he claimed to be the ONLY way to God, to be = able to forgive sins, to be a heavenly king, to be able to give eternal life, = he claimed that he would die and come back to life, that he would return = again to judge the world (get that?). In his famous book Mere Christianity, = C.S. Lewis makes this statement, "A man who was merely a man and said the = sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be = a lunatic--on the level with a man who says he is a poached egg--or he = would be the devil of hell. You must take your choice. Either this was, and = is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up = for a fool or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God. But let us = not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human = teacher. He has not left that open to us." Jesus could only have been one of four things: a legend, a liar, a lunatic--or Lord and God. There is so much historical and archeological evidence to support his existence that every reputable historian agrees = he was not just a legend. If he were a liar, why would he die for his = claim, when he could easily have avoided such a cruel death with a few choice words? And, if he were a lunatic, how did he engage in intelligent = debates with his opponents or handle the stress of his betrayal and crucifixion while continuing to show a deep love for his antagonists? He said he was Lord and God. The evidence supports that claim. He claimed to be God, which is why we killed him. Was he? If not then = he was a liar...incredibly cunning and evil, or he was insane. He has not = left us the option of believing he was just a teacher, or a wise prophet. He fullfilled every prophecy made about him in the Old Testament. The Old Testament (the part of the Bible written before Jesus' birth) was = completed in 450BC, hundreds of years before Jesus was born. The prophecies were = made in astonishing detail by many people throughout these books. For = instance, the Old Testament indicated Jesus would be betrayed by someone he = trusted, "Even my close friend whom I trusted, he who has shared my bread, has = lifted up his heel against me" (Psalm 41:9). The New Testament, which records Jesus' life and resurrection, reveals that one of the 12 people Jesus = chose to be part of his inner circle betrayed him, "Then Judas Iscariot, one = of the Twelve, went to the chief priests to betray Jesus to them" (Mark = 14:19). More than 300 prophecies like this were made in the Old Testament and = then fulfilled through Jesus' life, death and resurrection. The chances of = one person fulfilling a mere 8 of these prophecies are 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000. For one person to fulfill 48 of these = prophecies, the number becomes staggering--1 chance in 10 to the 157th power (1 with = 157 zeros after it). Add to that the 250 other prophecies and it becomes impossible for any other person except Jesus to ever fit that particular sequence of time and events. If you have read this far CONGRATULATIONS you have an excellent concentration span LOL The power of Christ knows no boundary of time or space. In our own age, = many skeptics have been convinced just as thoroughly their first-century counterparts. For example, Lew Wallace, a famous general and literary genius, was a known atheist. For two years, Wallace studied in the = leading libraries of Europe and America, seeking information that would forever destroy Christianity. While writing the second chapter of a book = outlining his arguments, he suddenly found himself on his knees crying out to = Jesus, "My Lord and my God." When confronted by solid indisputable evidence, he could no longer deny = that Jesus Christ was the Son of God. Later, Lew Wallace wrote the book Ben = Hur, one of the greatest English novels ever written concerning the time of Christ. I realise I have taken this topic and totally run in my own direction = (God's direction). I pray as I write this that the Holy Spirit might work in = your heart and that you might feel or sense Christ knocking at the door of = your heart. You can invite him in by faith right now. God knows your heart so = it doesn't matter exactly what words you use. Here's a suggested prayer: Lord Jesus, I want to know you personally. Thank you for dying on the = cross for my sins. I open the door of my life to you and ask you to come in as = my Savior and Lord. Take control of my life. Thank you for forgiving my = sins and giving me eternal life. Make me the kind of person you want me to = be. If this prayer expresses the desire of your heart, pray it right now and Jesus Christ will come into your life just as he has promised. Once you invite Christ into your life, he promises to never leave you. Hebrews 13:5 "God has said, 'Never will I leave you; never will I = forsake you.'" To know God personally is the greatest decision you will ever make. Get yourself a bible and find some other christians - sometimes you can find them at a church, but not always. Ask God to guide you through his word = and the Holy Spirit. And remember - your sins are forgiven! When God looks = at you on judgement day all he is gonna see is the innocent blood of his = only son. Jesus has payed the price - Praise God! Love in Christ Janadell *^*^*^*the barefoot angel*^*^*^* - ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BFA5F6.6AB13740 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I sent this afew days ago and it didn't = come=20 through to the list so here goes again... G'day there everyone I have been = lurking for=20 3 years now and this is the first time I have come out of the = woodwork. =20 I love some of the creativity I see here - the pure emotion and=20 humanity. Thank you all! The reason I am posting is that I = really=20 wanted to respond to Windex's post. I am very behind on my email so = here is=20 an exerpt to refresh your memories.. > Okay Im not look to = offend=20 anyone...I got the first part in an email and > this is what I = thought. I=20 know you guys are openm to everything so I would > love to hear = your=20 thoughts. OK? Are you with me? I should probably read some more = emails=20 before I reply to this - maybe someone else has already said what I = want to=20 say...If that is the case then *shrug* that's life in virtual land=20 :o) >I will say the > Bible is one of the greatest, if = not the=20 greatest books of all time Obviously then you are familiar with = the=20 Bible. Think back to some of the things Jesus said regarding = the=20 religious leaders of the day and their hipocrosy. Jesus wasn't = about=20 rules, he was about forgiveness. He condemned the 'pharisees' = of the=20 day (ie religious leaders) for their lack of compassion and pedantic=20 law-making and law-keeping. >Parents are bowing down and = leaving=20 priests, bishops and other members of religions to teach their = children right=20 and wrong when parents are the ones that should be doing = this. As a=20 mother of three I agree with you here. >We have left this = alone for to=20 long and the results have become a bunch of people that are trying to = runs or=20 thoughts and our minds. Think about what you are saying here.."a = bunch of=20 people" yes EXACTLY! A bunch of people not GOD. The = church isn't=20 God. We can blame the church for alot - after all they are just = "a=20 bunch of people" - alot of the time what the church says has nothing=20 whatsoever to do with what God says. Plus there are alot of = different=20 churches out there - which ones exactly are you condemning? I = am a=20 Christian - Jesus Christ is my Lord and saviour, but I think = 'religion' is a=20 dirty word. Honestly. Don't blame God for mistakes made = by some=20 of us mere mortals. > Why are we so afraid to give our = children=20 condoms and birth control? What is going to happen, since the school = are=20 giving them condoms they aren't going to get pregnant. Be proud of=20 responsibility and the act of love, not scared of it. I don't = believe=20 that wanting our kids to make wise choices is about = being afraid. It is=20 about wanting what is best for them emotionally, physically, and=20 spiritually. You speak highly of responsibility...but having=20 sex involves more than just feeling good, and avoiding *"diseases and = having=20 more children", and certainly falls a long way short of your = description=20 of "the act of love" more often than not. In some ways by = taking=20 away these possibilities*, were are encouraging more = promiscuity. When=20 people have sex, there is a big possibility they will be hurt = emotionally,=20 especially if they are too immature to handle a sexual = relationship. =20 You may think it's a great thing for teenagers to be liberated = sexually, free=20 contraception and all that.. and that is your right. But don't = take=20 away from other peoples rights to want some input into big decisions = their=20 teenage kids make...I don't believe that encouraging kids to make = decisions=20 about sex and abortion behinds their parent's back is in their best=20 interest. >We spend so much time blaming other people that it = is=20 inconceivable that it could be the people in their lives. On = the=20 contrary, feeling guilty is a big part of being a parent. I = don't know=20 if there are many parents out there who would try to blame their=20 kid's mistakes on others - in my experience parents tend to take on = 'too=20 much' responsibility and guilt on their kids behalf, rather than not=20 enough. But I agree with you that we should spend more = time=20 looking to ourselves for the answers, not blaming = others. >Judge=20 not lest ye be judged yourself. Jesus actually said = this. >What=20 have you done wrong? What are you doing that you shouldn't? The=20 church leaders said kiss > the ground we walk on and we did it. = They=20 said come to church every day and do all these things but remember = your=20 family. May I suggest that if the leaders of the church you are = referring=20 to said you had to kiss the ground they walk on, they had things = dreadfully=20 wrong. You were going to the wrong church. But please don't = hold that=20 against God...it had nothing to do with Him. >But, didn't = they say=20 love thy neighbor as thyself? > They said do unto others as you = would have=20 them do unto you. Jesus was also the author of these = comments. The=20 church or whoever "they" are that you are referring to are simply = quoting=20 Him, perhaps we are all hypocrites? God knows we are only human = - but=20 He loves us anyway. When we start trying to boss each other = around he=20 must laugh :o) I challenge you that you have not met the real = Jesus -=20 the Jesus that is alive today. The Jesus that has already stood = trial=20 for our sins and taken the punishment upon Himself, even though he = was=20 sinless. Read the Gospels with an open mind - you may be = surprised by=20 the true character of the Jesus you meet there. The one who = said =20 "But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not = sacrifice.' For=20 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." Mat = 9:13 This=20 same Jesus had authority to rebuke storms, heal the sick and raise = the dead.=20 (including himself). He made outrageous claims about=20 himself.....he claimed to be without sin, he claimed to be the ONLY = way to=20 God, to be able to forgive sins, to be a heavenly king, to be able to = give=20 eternal life, he claimed that he would die and come back to life, = that he=20 would return again to judge the world (get that?). In his famous book = Mere=20 Christianity, C.S. Lewis makes this statement, "A man who was merely = a man=20 and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral = teacher. He=20 would either be a lunatic--on the level with a man who says he is a = poached=20 egg--or he would be the devil of hell. You must take your choice. = Either this=20 was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You = can=20 shut him up for a fool or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord = and God.=20 But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a = great=20 human teacher. He has not left that open to us." Jesus could = only have=20 been one of four things: a legend, a liar, a lunatic--or Lord and = God. There=20 is so much historical and archeological evidence to support his = existence=20 that every reputable historian agrees he was not just a legend. If he = were a=20 liar, why would he die for his claim, when he could easily have = avoided such=20 a cruel death with a few choice words? And, if he were a lunatic, how = did he=20 engage in intelligent debates with his opponents or handle the stress = of his=20 betrayal and crucifixion while continuing to show a deep love for his = antagonists? He said he was Lord and God. The evidence supports that=20 claim. He claimed to be God, which is why we killed him. = Was=20 he? If not then he was a liar...incredibly cunning and evil, or = he was=20 insane. He has not left us the option of believing he was just = a=20 teacher, or a wise prophet. He fullfilled every prophecy made = about him=20 in the Old Testament. The Old Testament (the part of the Bible = written=20 before Jesus' birth) was completed in 450BC, hundreds of years before = Jesus=20 was born. The prophecies were made in astonishing detail by many = people=20 throughout these books. For instance, the Old Testament indicated = Jesus would=20 be betrayed by someone he trusted, "Even my close friend whom I = trusted, he=20 who has shared my bread, has lifted up his heel against me" (Psalm = 41:9). The=20 New Testament, which records Jesus' life and resurrection, reveals = that one=20 of the 12 people Jesus chose to be part of his inner circle betrayed = him,=20 "Then Judas Iscariot, one of the Twelve, went to the chief priests to = betray=20 Jesus to them" (Mark 14:19). More than 300 prophecies like this = were made=20 in the Old Testament and then fulfilled through Jesus' life, death = and=20 resurrection. The chances of one person fulfilling a mere 8 of these=20 prophecies are 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000. For one person to = fulfill 48 of=20 these prophecies, the number becomes staggering--1 chance in 10 to = the 157th=20 power (1 with 157 zeros after it). Add to that the 250 other = prophecies and=20 it becomes impossible for any other person except Jesus to ever fit = that=20 particular sequence of time and events. If you have read this = far=20 CONGRATULATIONS you have an excellent concentration span = LOL The power=20 of Christ knows no boundary of time or space. In our own age, = many skeptics=20 have been convinced just as thoroughly their = first-century counterparts. For=20 example, Lew Wallace, a famous general and literary genius, was a = known=20 atheist. For two years, Wallace studied in the leading libraries of = Europe=20 and America, seeking information that would forever destroy = Christianity.=20 While writing the second chapter of a book outlining his arguments, = he=20 suddenly found himself on his knees crying out to Jesus, "My Lord and = my=20 God." When confronted by solid indisputable evidence, he could no = longer=20 deny that Jesus Christ was the Son of God. Later, Lew Wallace wrote = the book=20 Ben Hur, one of the greatest English novels ever written concerning = the time=20 of Christ. I realise I have taken this topic and totally run = in my own=20 direction (God's direction). I pray as I write this that the = Holy=20 Spirit might work in your heart and that you might feel or sense = Christ=20 knocking at the door of your heart. You can invite him in by faith = right now.=20 God knows your heart so it doesn't matter exactly what words you use. = Here's=20 a suggested prayer: Lord Jesus, I want to know you personally. = Thank you=20 for dying on the cross for my sins. I open the door of my life to you = and ask=20 you to come in as my Savior and Lord. Take control of my life. Thank = you for=20 forgiving my sins and giving me eternal life. Make me the kind of = person you=20 want me to be. If this prayer expresses the desire of your heart, = pray it=20 right now and Jesus Christ will come into your life just as he has = promised.=20 Once you invite Christ into your life, he promises to never leave=20 you. Hebrews 13:5 "God has said, 'Never will I leave you; never = will I=20 forsake you.'" To know God personally is the greatest decision = you=20 will ever make. Get yourself a bible and find some other = christians -=20 sometimes you can find them at a church, but not always. Ask = God to=20 guide you through his word and the Holy Spirit. And remember - = your=20 sins are forgiven! When God looks at you on judgement day all = he is=20 gonna see is the innocent blood of his only son. Jesus has = payed the=20 price - Praise God! Love in Christ Janadell *^*^*^*the = barefoot=20 angel*^*^*^* - ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BFA5F6.6AB13740-- ------------------------------ End of eda-thoughts-digest V3 #133 **********************************