From: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org (eda-thoughts-digest) To: eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Subject: eda-thoughts-digest V2 #128 Reply-To: eda-thoughts@smoe.org Sender: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk eda-thoughts-digest Monday, May 3 1999 Volume 02 : Number 128 * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * eda-thoughts-digest-request@smoe.org with ONLY * the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: eda-thoughts-digest V2 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: ET: Re: OPINION on Colorado - If you don't want to read, delete , NOW [Seth Fulmer ] Re: ET: Dan [Courtney M Gordon ] Fwd: ET: Dan [Trexd5@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 11:57:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Seth Fulmer Subject: Re: ET: Re: OPINION on Colorado - If you don't want to read, delete , NOW Ok, I've been approached by quite a few people and just for the record if this post sounds harsh..please like tell me because I might need a check. I was in a dialogue/dinner last night about souls and spiritual wellness and almost bit someone's head off about the murder/innocence issue, so I'm sorry. I've gotten responses from a few people already who read my post as "the boys were right in doing what they did so do nothing to stop them". I wasn't saying take a stance of inaction. In fact I wasn't advocating any action at all. It's not my place to say "do this" or "do that". I'm/was simply saying that we shouldn't "blame" them, or the parents. You can still take action. If children are playing around and end up falling into the television set. Admittedly, the children are the cause of the broken television, but it's not like 'they' were attempting to cause a problem. It(falling into the TV) was an accident. However, the children should learn not to play and it won't happen..so they're punished. If they REALLY wanted to break the television, they could make more of an attempt. In the situation of the Colorado instance, the boys are dead. There's no way to punish them anymore. In my opinion, they should have gone to verbal action, if any action because an insult can be ignored faster than a bullet, blade, or physical violence. They obviously thought otherwise. In my last post, I stated that I don't blame the parents. What could the parents do? If I(i.e..someone/anyone, but true in the first person at this time especially) want to do something (anything)...no parent, peer, teacher, professor, doctor, gun, army, or God himself is going to stop me from accomplishing that goal. I may not be successful at it with obstructions others place in the way, but I will darn well die in the attempt and will put every bit of effort into doing it. Also, someone else had mentioned that the parents should have noticed the stockpiling of weapons in the boys' room. I'll take the parents side first and show from both sides the futility of this action. (a-the parents)Frankly I'd be scared if I found a single weapon alone in my child's room, let alone multiple ones. If all morals were pushed aside, I'd probably comfiscate the gun and take it as my own, so that in (b), I could protect myself...(b-the boys)If my parents even knew I had a gun/multiple guns, depending on how I viewed things..I might confront the parents, with the weapon hidden and take care of them so they couldn't do anything about it, or turn the weapons in. In the 1st case, the parents are dead, and the boys more than likely would continue to kill others to continue their plan. I know I am the type that almost never turns myself in. In the 2nd case, sure, the situation has been averted, but if the boys were of the value system to go on the killing spree they did go on, I doubt the parents would have made much of a change. Kevin mentions giving up free will to join society. Why so? I have given up no free will and I tend to do things as I will. I'll admit when I drove(I sold my car to go to college) I sped freely. I jay-walk...sometimes right in front of police officers because I frankly don't care. If I want to do something that may not be legal...I wait for the right time. There's ALWAYS a loophole to something or another. Someone wants to steal, wait for a mobscene to occur...There's the perfect chance to steal..of course it's considered looting then. In 'my' moral spectrum, I couldn't steal from someone else, no matter if they would miss the object or not, but I still go about and do whatever I want in my life. I tend to consider others obstacles that you have to please(generally speaking). You go about life, pleasing others, and they move out of your way and you can move on...like in traffic...you use your turn signals, exits, proper lanes, and you can go anywhere. Most people wouldn't be allowed to drive onto armed forces bases. I wouldn't want to, but if I did, and I needed to do it now...there's no force that would stop me. I truthfully don't consider the situation in Colorado, or even Canada to be out of the ordinary. There are school shootings all the time. The only reason people seem to care so much is because of the amount of success that the boys had, and the fact that it's all over the news media. Of course though, when there was a shooting at my own high school close to 10 years ago, I still wasn't shocked, afraid, or anything but confused why everyone was having a fit and my mom was scared out of her mind. This is partly because I expect that anything can occur. People do things because they want to and because they don't fear the consequences. You listen to music because you want to, and you don't fear what could happen...which is pleasure. Should someday somehow there be a consequence of death associated with listening to music, I can surmise that the only people to listen to music would be people who don't fear the consequence. Anyhow, I just wanted to mention that my point never was to advocate an action. I think it would be futile to prohibit guns, as probition of alcohol was futile and you'll just increase the concentration of crime if you prohibit guns. I also think placing blame on someone for inaction is futile, as one can't force another to action. You can hold a gun to my head and tell me to do something but if I don't want to, there's no way that I will be forced to do it..Then again I have a strong defensive will too. Also on that point, and partly on the converse, to blame the boys and/or the parents/peers/society/etc. for any action is to push them onto your own moral beliefs(i.e. what we did during the Holy War). These are just my opinion and like I said I'm not saying anyone should do something or not do anything. I hope I have cleared up my point :o) Take care and Have a Great Day! :) Seth D. Fulmer mailto:kaosking@voicenet.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 11:43:28 -0500 From: Fervent Spirit Subject: Re: ET: Re: OPINION on Colorado - If you don't want to read, delete , NOW For the most part, i agree with Seth! We can not blame guns, we can not blame the gun dealers, and we cant blame the hardware stores that the kids bought their supplies to make the 65 bombs they made. We can only blame our society. Millions of teens every year, gets harassed by the so called "perfect" people. The people who play sports, have their parents credit cards given to them on a silver platter, and the people who drive the best because their given the best. It's these kind of people who harass mentally and physically, the students who may like Marilyn Manson or may like computers or the people who don't like sports. It's these people that drive kids to insanity! I'm not saying that killing 13 people was right, it's was most definitely wrong and i wish all 15 people were here today but i think you can only be pushed so far till you break! "Scott S." -Big Sexy Angel "WE ARE ALL GOD'S CHILDREN! BUT WHY DO WE KILL EACH OTHER?" P.E.A.C.C.EŠ President/Founder and Proud EDA! http://homestead.com/rocksolid ICQ#9685289 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 14:05:21 EDT From: Trexd5@aol.com Subject: Re: ET: *excuse* me Manda ~ To tell you the truth I dont care what you or anyone else thinks of me and my belifes.... I wasnt saying I dont feel safe in my house.... I simply stating that you shouldnt have to feel unsafe..... And if people feel safe having guns in their house they should be able to.. We have the constutional right... and until its chaged... Why dont you shut up about the whole gun thing ! Its getting old ! ~Dan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 14:35:52 EDT From: JewelAng@aol.com Subject: ET: my start Hello all EDA's, Well as in little space as I can I'm going to tell you about my weekend. Well I went to this all weekend Youth Confrense for Methodists churches in my area. Well there was talent show and I decied to sign up for it. It had to be related to God so I decied to play (guitar) and sing "Hands". I was going to do it all by myself but some people helped me out. I had my teacher also playing guitar with me and some of my friends signing but I was the only one who was miked. I was sooooo nervious.....there was lot's of people......like over a 100 people and the lights where so hot.......I had the beging part all to myself where I had no one else singing and I thought my voice was shaking but my friend in the addiunce said "Wow I can't belive she's not nervoius" she didn't even know I was.........well anyways.....I did this whole little speech and then everyone said I did really good but it'a hard to tell when your doing.......you don't get the whole affect.....well I guess that's about it........bye. ~The Newely found Angel Rebecca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 19:13:11 -0400 From: Mandabear four Subject: ET: Dan why don't you go f*** yourself? You can tell the rest of the eda list the same thing about the guns too. EVERYONE has been talking about it too. If you don't like the topic...DON'T REPLY TO ANY OF THE EMAILS. There is no need to criticize other's opinions by calling them names. Yes, I told you to f-off but you are being rude also. Two wrongs don't make a right and in this case I really don't care. You are way off base. ~Mandabear~ The Forever Seeking Teen Angel ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 21:06:02 -0400 From: Courtney M Gordon Subject: Re: ET: Dan >Two wrongs don't make a right but two Wright's did make an airplane. :-) love and luck always Courtney ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 21:49:25 EDT From: Trexd5@aol.com Subject: Fwd: ET: Dan - --part1_d1f24885.245e5aa5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - --part1_d1f24885.245e5aa5_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: Trexd5@aol.com From: Trexd5@aol.com Full-name: Trexd5 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 21:48:59 EDT Subject: Re: ET: Dan To: mandabear4@juno.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 38 Manda ~ I didnt criticize your opinion I told you to shut up about the gun thing ! I've been going back and forth about this topic with about 4 eda's and its getting really old.. there is only so many ways someone can express the way they feel about a topic.. ~Oh yeah I thought being hostile wasnt your nature.... ?!? As for any other eda's besides Amanda .. I'm sorry if I affended you by what I said to her... I didnt mean to ! ~Dan The angel that keeps getting annoyed by Amanda - --part1_d1f24885.245e5aa5_boundary-- ------------------------------ End of eda-thoughts-digest V2 #128 **********************************