From: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org (eda-thoughts-digest) To: eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Subject: eda-thoughts-digest V2 #119 Reply-To: eda-thoughts@smoe.org Sender: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk eda-thoughts-digest Sunday, April 25 1999 Volume 02 : Number 119 * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * eda-thoughts-digest-request@smoe.org with ONLY * the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: eda-thoughts-digest V2 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. Today's Subjects: ----------------- ET: poem [winters ] ET: Terror in the Rockies- Update... [Fervent Spirit ] ET: does it matter? [Mandabear four ] ET: thinking [winters ] ET: my opinion, psychoanalysis (i don't care if it's spelled wrong), and a poem ["Chris Sylvester" ] Re: ET: my opinion, psychoanalysis (i don't care if it's spelled wrong), and a poem ["Erin Benoit" Subject: ET: poem violation we sat there, laughing like two good friends because we are, two good friends. the tequila and rum overflowing in our bodies one shot after another of sucker we begain laughing harder eating steak over candlelight the best of friends bull shitting around how lucky i am to have found you someone who will listen to my cries for help someone who will grab my hand during a story and seem to care, yes you seemed to care the ride to your house wasn't awkward at all i got a little scared when you nearly hit the tree but we laughed it off and spoke of how lucky we were to be such great friends the age difference never seemed to matter we have looked beyond so much. but i didn't expect you to throw me onto the couch and i didn't realize that good friends told each other words of lust and "love". my body trembled while you tried to kiss my chapped lips i thought we were only friends. is this what i have to repay you with? after these naive months thinking you never noticed my hips but you want it, that's what you say. as if i want to be violated and pushed against as if i asked for those hard kisses and cheaponed loving words now you want to know, why i'm all weireded out now your wondering why i'm avoiding you and never wanna get back those sunglasses that i left behind next to the tequila as if you never violated me. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 02:19:52 -0500 From: Fervent Spirit Subject: ET: Terror in the Rockies- Update... Hey Angels, Here's the latest i've received on the Columbine high shooting. Apparently from the friends of the 2 kids, the media and students has blown the story way off course. They weren't out to kill different racial students! They didn't listen to Marilyn Manson! And the racist thing is still being looked into, they apparently planned this tragedy to take place on Hitler's birthday but the friends said they weren't racist. "Scott S." -Big Sexy Angel "WE ARE ALL GOD'S CHILDREN! BUT WHY DO WE KILL EACH OTHER?" P.E.A.C.C.E© President/Founder and Proud EDA! http://homestead.com/rocksolid ICQ#9685289 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 09:03:30 -0400 From: Mandabear four Subject: ET: does it matter? does it really matter what their motives were? They still killed people and shattered the lives of hundreds. <3 always ~Mandabear~ The Forever Seeking Teen Angel ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 12:03:03 -0700 From: winters Subject: ET: thinking this is what i have heard: there were only 10 blacks at the school. they were going after mainly athletes who teased them. the thing is, psychologicaly speaking, once a gun is in your hand, you've had something planned for over a year, your gonna see red. these two boys ran through the halls shooting and laughing, they saw red. they had no real motives but to kill. influences. i hate to throw the blames on manson, the media, or even out culture. manson does his crazy music for money, it's all marketing. that german band is truly psychodic though. they were obessed with hitler (one of their grandparents were jewish like hitlers). the most important influence in our life should be our parents, the first 7 years are said to be the most important. during that time parents need to ingrave basic morals. those could have been great parents, who just were blinded by what their children were doing. they had to know that their kids were making pipe bombs, you can't put up that strong of a front to your parents. and if you can, then there is a problem there, parents should know their children. i think guns should be banned. they are only for murder. but also, this is what some man said at a funeral, the only way to stop this is from within. we, the teenagers, the children that walk through the halls of high school are really the only ones to put an end to this. politicians can only go so far. parents aren't next to you in school and the only way to end madness is for the teenagers to step up against it. to respect each other, to notice if someone is acting "off". i am completely against guns, but think of it this way, once the guns are gone (like that would ever even happen though) pipe bombs would be used more. they are easy to make. think about it kat ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 12:08:35 PDT From: "Chris Sylvester" Subject: ET: my opinion, psychoanalysis (i don't care if it's spelled wrong), and a poem ok, poem first, cause i know a few of you just want that. opinion and psych analisys next. - ---- I saw it in Kentucky. Again in Utah (I think). And though, it'll never happen here. I saw it in Tampa And thought, "I'm in peaceful Gainesville" Again in Colorado. It used to be that we didn't do that. It used to be the adults. Rawlings. Kazinski. Bundy.... But now, I look at my peers, My friends, and wonder... "Will it happen here?" - ---- oh, "we" refers to teenagers. + for the love of God, people... Guns are not the problem. they are NOT only used for murder weapons. if it weren't for the invention of gunpowder, a LOT of people would have starved a long time ago. the musket was invented as a hunting tool, to put food on the table. if you ban guns, then they can't be used to protect ourselves. banning guns only takes them out of the hands of the good guys, leaving us defensless. the bad guys already HAVE guns, and will just keep them hidden untill they want to kill one of us. Eloi, Morlocks. Proper society, scum. Orcs Humans. Angels, Demons. i know, some of these analogies make no sense, or seem extreme (not to me, but i'm sure they do to somebody), they're just to make a point. if the american people lose guns, then other countries will have a REAL easy time taking our freedom from us. our military is NOT as big as we'd like to think. we have to protect ourselves. no, i'm not a gun toting redneck anarchist, but i do believe that since they exist, they are a nessecary evil. if we managed to destroy every gun on the face of the planet, someone would make another one. ok, these two were sick. here's my theory: they snapped. they had been insulted a lot all through their entire lives, and some people do not know how to handle that. the "joking insults" that they heard a lot probably cut a lot deeper than they were intended to, and they got tired of it. they just couldn't handle the stress of being a teenager, trying to be known in the world, and make everybody happy all at the same time. how many times have you guys felt like just screaming and making everybody dissapear? be honest, we've all felt like that at least once, and if you haven't, you will eventually. if you never do, then i'm wrong, so be it, you have a wonderful life and should thank God. they also could have had undiagnosed ADHD (attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, a mental disorder that can make you lose your temper very quickly, and impares concentration if left untreated) untill i was diagnosed, and treated, i constantly blew up at people and was a very unpleasant person to be around. i've changed dramatically since i've been on ritalyn. i know what i'm talking about. i used to be these two. it's not the media, although it helps. the blame is not on one thing, it's everything. and on themselves. i know, you're all saying "but chris, this was planned a year in advance! they didnt' just 'snap' like you think!" the shooters wanted to make everybody feel the pain they always felt. people who just "flip out" for lack of a better term still think clearly. perhaps we're all being affected by the media who portrays these two teenagers and insane psycotics in so many movies? just think a minute: how many level headed murderers have you seen in a move, or read about in a book? zero. (with the exception of a few Sherlock Holmes novels) we're taught to believe that killers can't plan in advance, b/c if you snap, it's an instananeous thing. not it's NOT! i can be a slow, and agonizing death that nobody except the person feeling it understands, and the one going through it might not ever understand it. how do i know? what makes me the expert? simple. i was that person. i've felt exactly how those two felt. they shot themselves as a realization of what they've done. they came out of their rage filled trance and realized, "what did we just do? oh God, there's no way out!" it's that simple. (ok, it's not simple, but it's probably very close to what i say) i'm still that person, minus the violent feelings. feel free to comment on my opinion, just please refrain from directly insulting me when you do so. Peace, love and cheesewhiz! ~Chris, the angel who'se just learning to fly _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 00:40:06 +0200 From: "ASTIER Sylvain" Subject: ET: I'm sad. Hi everyone ! Friday I have an English presentation. It is very important for me. I also had to write a rapport for my University. My subject : Jewel KILCHER :-) . It was hard but lot of people of the list helped me a lot by answering my questions. I want to thank everybody. I think that I probably write less of 5 times to the list even if I subscribe to it near two years ago. You’ll probably understand why only by reading a few of my words… If I wrote their today it is because, as everybody, I’m very shocked by what happens in Colorado. My english is not good enough to express what I fell but I just want you to know that I care for everybody who was hurt physically or morally by what happens. I did not know the people how helped me in my work and it makes me very sad to think that they may have lost friends. Take care of each other, Regards, Sylvain ASTIER. ****************************************************** "Be the Difference That Makes a Difference " Jewel Kilcher ****************************************************** Rocker Girl : THE NEW VERSION !!!! http://Jewel.citeweb.net ****************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 14:20:27 PDT From: "Erin Benoit" Subject: Re: ET: my opinion, psychoanalysis (i don't care if it's spelled wrong), and a poem Chris, Okay well, you were doin ggod there for awhile but I have to disagree with you. I also believe I have been where these two boys were...being picked on at school, throwing terrible temper tantrums and eventually reaching depression and suicidal thoughts. (I have a totally different theory about ADHD as I studied it in Psychlogy and it is my expertise besides what my own expreience is and that is depression and suicide. But I won't go there...) I think these two boys were exactly what that juvenile counsellor portrayed them to be...smart, lots of potential, and if focused can make their dreams and goals come true. Well how's this for a scenario....they get ignored by their parents, both were the youngest kids in their families (from what I gathered) so by the time they were growing up they had even more freedom from their parents (as case studies show...the youngest 'get away with murder') So they felt ignored and alone in their own homes, less parental care and more media starts to seep in, doom games and violent music (although Scott said that thye didn't listen to Marilyn Manson) and then the kicker...they couldn't even be liked at school. Their reaction...well, okay this is what I think Eric Harris was doing...and then I think Dylan just got involved up to his neck and then followed Eric to their doom. Okay so they start feeling depressed, and have suicidal thoughts, somewhere along the line they learn of Hitler and start to idolise him out of their own prejudiced thoughts (perhaps racist, but agaisnt jocks for sure) and they start to idolise Hitler. (before or after the mafia?) THen things seem to get worse...it builds up and builds and they can't talk to their parents and have few friends and they join the TRenchcoat Mafia (as I understand they were not the leaders) so they have gothic influences from them and just take off on it from there. Then things get so bad they think they can't handle it so they say I feel like killing mysefl...maybe even made attepts. So they say, hey if we re being 'forced' to kill ourselves (which is what it feels like) then we are not going out without getting revenge. So they set a date! Hitler's birthday. And then it is carved in stone for them...no one can get through now...it is up to themselves...but then they had each other to keep each others flame going and they set up the website...they surrounded themselves by what they thought they were. Bad people. Society says were bad so let's finally do something right and live up to someone's standards...let's do them proud...show them just how bad we can be....then somewhere down the line if feels good. They get deeper involved and April 20th gets nearer and nearerr....they makes their pipe bombs and get guns and then start planning their plan of attack... How they will shot people, who they will kill, where to put the big bombs, etc..e.tc...and it becomes a thing in their head to a thing in reality...no turning back now.... THe reason they were laughing is because they were fianlly happy people...they knew they were going to end all the pain and get some revenge and make society proud....but they also knew in their heart of hearts that it was wrong....they pushed those feelings aside or had them pushed aside by more name calling or bottle throwing or whatever....so the little inconsistencies that they might be good people....they knew what was right and wrong...but they felt they had no choice...And also...because they felt so alone by their parents non attention they learned very well how to put up a good front....Their parents could very well not have known what was goin gon right unxer their noses. I know my Dad used to ask me to clean my room and I would and him wouldn't even go into it again until it was dirty again and then he would get mad and say "I thought Itold you to clean up this mess!" My thoughts...I can't do anything right, I'm not happy here, how can I end it all? Then anger sets in...oooh! if I only had a gun right now...no one could stop me....but I live in Canada and have onyl held a gun once in my life and that was a bebe gun with my Dad and brother in the garage doing target practice....I dont even think those guns are around the house and I' would have no idea of where to get a gun....sure if I wanted to bad enough I would check my resources...but that initail anger wears off and I go back to my usaul negative self-talk in the morning...until I get mad again. The reason why boys follow through more than girls I think is because they are taught it is not okay to cry...I cried myself to sleep everynight for years and years and in the morning I always felt better....but boys get madder and more angry etc...it builds up...and builds up.... Then there is the meda that plays on those feelings. Music and violent mocvies...sure if they weren't already feeling violent they wouldn't pick up on the little things like what kind of weapon he had, or how to reload, or how many people he killed, or that it is just a movie... I think that from their prfiles at school and stuff Iwould have to say these boys did not have ADHD...they were not bouncing off the walls and what not...they obviously could focus on something for a long period of time and follow through with their goals.... Their goal was to kill the people they felt hurt them...but the idea of being hurt was in their head so it became a rampage to kill everyone...because they thoguht then that the school was out to get them...and most likely they would kill the people who seemed to have the cloest friends...the nicest people...but then also the 'jocks' or whoever really bugged them the most...but they saught after the people who's lives they were jealous of...people like Rachel Scott, and Issiah...people who did n't even know them....they wanted to punish the good people for not even know ing who they were because in their minds they would have been good and loyal friends to them...they fantasized about being the good people's friends... If any of this doesn't make sense please ask questions...I can't seem to get it al linto words that I think even I would understand.... I know what these boys were feeling....(I think) it wasn't voilence...it was hurt that turned violent because they felt they had no other choice.... (I kow I know now, they do, they did...what ever...I did and through Jewel's music I found the goodness...I realised that my parents were enver home because they were working to put food on the table...and yeah, maybe I could have would have done it better...but so do that better...I have made a pact with myself to not let this happen with my kids one day....and if I don't think I can do that..then I'm not goin gto have kids! Period. ) But when you are messed up and no one notices....it hurts more...it's like putting fuel in the fire... Sorry this was so long... ERin >ok, these two were sick. here's my theory: >they snapped. they had been insulted a lot all through their entire >lives, and some people do not know how to handle that. the "joking >insults" that they heard a lot probably cut a lot deeper than they >were intended to, and they got tired of it. they just couldn't >handle the stress of being a teenager, trying to be known in the >world, and make everybody happy all at the same time. how many times >have you guys felt like just screaming and making everybody >dissapear? be honest, we've all felt like that at least once, and if >you haven't, you will eventually. if you never do, then i'm wrong, >so be it, you have a wonderful life and should thank God. they also >could have had undiagnosed ADHD (attention deficit hyperactivity >disorder, a mental disorder that can make you lose your temper very >quickly, and impares concentration if left untreated) untill i was >diagnosed, and treated, i constantly blew up at people and was a very >unpleasant person to be around. i've changed dramatically since i've >been on ritalyn. i know what i'm talking about. i used to be these >two. it's not the media, although it helps. the blame is not on one >thing, it's everything. and on themselves. > i know, you're all saying "but chris, this was planned a year in >advance! they didnt' just 'snap' like you think!" the shooters >wanted to make everybody feel the pain they always felt. people who >just "flip out" for lack of a better term still think clearly. >perhaps we're all being affected by the media who portrays these two >teenagers and insane psycotics in so many movies? just think a >minute: how many level headed murderers have you seen in a move, or >read about in a book? zero. (with the exception of a few Sherlock >Holmes novels) we're taught to believe that killers can't plan in >advance, b/c if you snap, it's an instananeous thing. not it's NOT! >i can be a slow, and agonizing death that nobody except the person >feeling it understands, and the one going through it might not ever >understand it. > how do i know? what makes me the expert? simple. i was that >person. i've felt exactly how those two felt. they shot themselves >as a realization of what they've done. they came out of their rage >filled trance and realized, "what did we just do? oh God, there's no >way out!" it's that simple. (ok, it's not simple, but it's probably >very close to what i say) i'm still that person, minus the violent >feelings. > feel free to comment on my opinion, just please refrain from >directly insulting me when you do so. >Peace, love and cheesewhiz! >~Chris, the angel who'se just learning to fly > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of eda-thoughts-digest V2 #119 **********************************