From: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org (eda-thoughts-digest) To: eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Subject: eda-thoughts-digest V2 #113 Reply-To: eda-thoughts@smoe.org Sender: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk eda-thoughts-digest Thursday, April 22 1999 Volume 02 : Number 113 * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * eda-thoughts-digest-request@smoe.org with ONLY * the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: eda-thoughts-digest V2 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. Today's Subjects: ----------------- [none] [Mandabear four ] ET: poem about shooting [JewelAng@aol.com] ET: colorado [zerocool@sunlink.net (Niki)] ET: my opinion the shooting [JewelAng@aol.com] ET: shootings [Courtney M Gordon ] ET: Re: my opinion the shooting ["Kevin B. Pease" Subject: [none] Please sign this list. It is a petition to recognize the victims of the Columbine High School tragedy and to work towards an end to senseless violence. It has no connection to religion and no connection to opinion. It is only a hope for a better and more peaceful future. 1) Brent Domann 2) Cara Aiello 3) Jonathan Micheal Lucas 4) Shannon Idema 5) Kristin Maynard 6) Amanda Guillemette ________________________________________________________________ Get secure free e-mail that you don't need Web access to use from Juno, the world's second largest online service. Download your free software at http://www.juno.com/getit.b.html. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:18:27 EDT From: JewelAng@aol.com Subject: ET: poem about shooting Hey, Well really I"m writting what I think about a poem that some one else wrote about the shooting. I think this is the line that affected me the most: "You can't put on a price on life...it's too fragile and too precious God gave everyone a reason and a purpose in life...he didn't put us on earth to kill one another." I think that has a very stronge message there.....the person who wrote his poem I htink it's great and I can see how this has affected them.....well that's all for know I"m not gonna voice my oppion on this b/c I"ve already got into too many fight about it already. ~The Fallen Angel Rebecca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:50:00 -0500 From: zerocool@sunlink.net (Niki) Subject: ET: colorado In Spanish class we were talking about the shooting in Colorado... our teacher took a really interesting perspective on the whole situation... he said that he thinks we need to talk about this stuff in school because sometimes we get so caught up in our own little world that we don't fully understand and realize what other people are going through and what exactly is going on... he said we have circles... you yourself are the center of your world...you're the inside circle along with God, or whoever you choose to worship. the circle outside of that is most likely your parents or whoever is closest to you...the circle outside of that is most likely other family...the people on the outside circles are those people that you don't talk to, ones you maybe don't like...the bigger the circle, the more you are removed from those people in that circle... then our teacher went on to say that the circles are barriers, they can hurt people...make people feel left out and alone... and that is part of the problem in schools, why shootings happen... so then he went on to ask us what we thought should be done about stuff like this.......i suggested that our school hold an assembly...he thought it was a good idea so he talked to the principal and we're prolly gonna have one...but first the principal said that an assembly would cause alarm...freaking i'm like 'okay then let's just ignore it until something happens here at danville' i think problems like this need to be confronted before they happen, instead of ignoring them and pretending that they don't ever happen... just something to think about - -Niki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:20:14 EDT From: JewelAng@aol.com Subject: ET: my opinion the shooting Hey, Well after you guys read this Mandy you might be able to figure out why I didn't voice my opinion. Already I've got into some small little fits about it. Well okay here it goes. I think in a way I can see where those two boys are coiming from. They said that the kids were like "loners" and not in the "in" crowd. I know that usally people who aren't popular are usally picked on and not what. I should know because I get it a lot. It really degrets everything around you. It destroys your ego, your self confidence and most imporantly your spirit. And at one point you can only take just so much before you want to explode. Maybe this is what happened to these two boys. Go ahead and blaim it on who ever you want but I htink soceity is partly to blaim. I'm not saying at all that what they did is right. Killing a person or 15 people is no way to solve anything. It onlly gets you deeper into the mess. But what I'm saying is I can't judge these two kids because I don't know them. You know that old saying you can't judge a person before you walk a mile in there shoes. Even though it a way it may seem like I'm sided with the ememy taht is not true at all. It is a ggreat loss and tradity to our country. I belive that it is a stronge wake up call for all us no matter who you are. In a way I think I'm on both sides. My heart goes out to all the people who are feeling the pain of this masscure (if I can call it that). Well I lost my train of thought because I stopped the email and now I'm trying to pick it back up. Oh yes...........well the part about how they did some of it out of rasicm is awful...........after hearing that part I wasn't sure how much I had left about it. I don't agree at all with rascism. Well I guess that's about all. Thanks for liseniting to my rambling. If you have any coments I would love to here them and how you feel about the situation. ~Rebecca the Fallen Angel ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:46:35 -0400 From: Courtney M Gordon Subject: ET: shootings Dear Everyone, I'm not by any means saying that it isn't a big deal what's goin on in Colorado. But I have to agree with Rebecca who said that society is partly to blame. If we treat certain people as though they do not belong or they can't ever fit in (regaurdless of whether or not it's true) then eventually i think we all know that someone is going to retolerate. And sometimes this is how it turns out. Our president must be REAL good at his job if he's just now deciding something has to be done. I mean, Cheezus Rice (don't ask), how many people have to suffer before that dumb ass in the white house gets off the female (and some male, ya never know) interns and deals with real problems?! I understand that we are merely human and with that nature we are bound to discriminate and all that jazz, but if we could all be a tad bit more understanding, compassionate, trusting, caring and that about others, and if we took time out to actually listen to what the so called "outcasts" have to say, these things could be prevented. love and luck always Courtney ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:42:15 -0400 From: "Kevin B. Pease" Subject: ET: Re: my opinion the shooting I'm going to weigh in with my 50 cents on this (in other words, this is a long-ass letter. Delete it if you don't care to read it, I'll still sleep tonight.) Also, be forewarned, you may not like or agree with my opinions, which is well within your rights... but this too, is something I'll lose very little sleep over. >> Rebecca writes: > It destroys your ego, your self > confidence and most importantly your spirit. And at one point you can only > take just so much before you want to explode. Maybe this is what happened to > these two boys. I can see that point of view, but I don't think I can agree with it. In high school, I was decidedly UN-hip (hell, I still am decidedly un-hip, but I'm okay with that... :), and I got a more than fair share of crap from classmates. Did the fact that these guys were "outcasts" contribute to this? Probably, I won't argue that it was part of it. BUT, at what point does a person become responsible for their own actions? Regardless of the provocation, a choice was made at some point to do this. All reports I'm seeing indicate to me that this was a deliberate, planned, premeditated action... the fact that they were teased, or not ultra-cool hipsters at their high school is just a *BIT* shy of explaining this... in a fit of rage, in the heat of the moment, whatever you want to call it, you don't take a couple hours to put together some pipe bombs, simple as that. Let's also not forget this: I've heard quite a few reports indicating that these kids seemed to admire Hitler & Nazi philosophies... most of the news reports I've heard also seem to indicate that they were trying to target minority students... true? Hard to say... but all the stuff I'm hearing about these two kids is that they were a lot MORE than "merely misunderstood", they were seriously, for lack of a better word, F'ed up. Now, with that said... I will also say (and some of you probably won't like this... feel free not to like it) I don't feel "society" is "to blame". Could "society" have treated them better? Certainly... there's always room for improvement. Could people have been nicer to them? Certainly... I won't argue the fact that they were probably treated like outcasts by the people they were in school with. Could this "outcast" status have contributed to their decision to do something like this? Indeed. BUT (and there's always a but, folks... :) these two were 16 or 17 years old... by my estimation, that's WELL past time that they should have known the difference between right and "completely, horribly, amazingly, stupidly, incredibly, mind-numbingly" wrong. Put the blame wherever you want, and argue about the causative events 'till the cows come home, the fact still remains that responsibility lies with the two young men who did it -- it was premeditated... planned, in cold blood. Yes, "society" might have avoided this event if something had been done differently, and I'm not saying that the people who treated these guys as outcasts were right in doing so, but I don't see where the one action justifies or *reasonably* causes the other. Plenty of people don't fit in, plenty of people are treated horribly at the hands of their peers in high school... very few of these people walk into a school and begin executing their classmates. Statistically, blaming society for this doesn't work... if it was society's "fault", or their parents' "fault", or anybody else's "fault", this sort of thing would happen every day at any school without metal detectors and armed guards at every entrance. Do I hate these young men? No. I feel disgust, pity, sorrow, anger... I wish that this could have been avoided, for all the people involved - these two young men, and the students that they gunned down in cold blood... But I will never say that they're not to blame, and that they're not responsible, for their actions. To a person, juniors in high school will argue that they're mature enough and old enough to be treated as adults (go ahead, one of you 17 year olds out here, tell me you're not...), and I'm inclined to agree that most 17 year olds are capable of being mature, and responsible. But you can't have it both ways -- either you're treated as a mature, responsible adult, and you're responsible for your actions, or you're immature and unable to be held accountable for your actions. Like I said, I think the typical 17 year old *is* mature enough and responsible enough to be held responsible for their actions... maybe that colors my opinion - so be it. > I believe that it is a strong wake up call > for all us no matter who you are. [...] Oh yes...........well the > part about how they did some of it out of racism is awful...........after > hearing that part I wasn't sure how much I had left about it. I don't agree > at all with racism I agree wholeheartedly... this is a strong wake up call, but perhaps for different reasons... it's a wake up call to us as a society that we've got a long way to go towards eliminating racism, and we've also got to be a lot more vigilant in looking for people who are mentally unstable enough to think that doing something like this is actually a reasonable action to take in response to ANY problem... That'll do it for me... Kevin - ---------- Kevin Pease kbpease@boston.crosswinds.net ICQ UIN: 3106063 AOL IM: kbpease http://www.crosswinds.net/boston/~kbpease/ "And I can't help but remember you / Morning high, midnight low / I don't want to dance with your memory / But somehow I can't let you go..." ---(Chris Knight, "The Band Is Playing Too Slow")--- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:47:02 EDT From: JohnTracy4@aol.com Subject: ET: My thoughts on Colorado I personally take a different perspective on the tragedy in Colorado. I think it was the worst event to ever happen of its kind, but I don't think you can blame the government, or the teachers, or even the parents. That, most people I know agree with. However, some say that the media, such as the Internet, TV, music, and magazines play a role in how those teenagers acted. I have no belief in this at all. I think it is no one's fault but there own. They knew what they were doing, but you cannot sue the people that make the movies or post the sites on the Internet (as the citizens in paduka have) I believe that more thoughts should be added into the students minds. You see, making laws and enforcing them are good, and they keep criminals from repeating the actions (sometimes) But if a person is not afraid of consequences (as was the case for the teen agers in Colorado) they will not stop to prove there point, even if it means they are killing others and themselves. I believe that another level of intellegence should be added to the curiculum. If you give the kids something that they can think about, such as a point of view not taught in a book, or if you can get them interested in things that are not traditionaly taught in school, they will be more prone to learning, and wanting to learn, then hating. What I am trying to push through is... If you give those who seem to disagree with a certain point of view, it is probably better to let them see all aspects of it, rather than pushing one point of view down there throat because it is on an agenda list that the teachers must teach. If they understand that there is always a choice to life then maybe, just maybe they will calm down and see that life is a beautiful thing, and not something to be taken lightly. John ~The Forever Questioning Angel ------------------------------ End of eda-thoughts-digest V2 #113 **********************************