From: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org (eda-thoughts-digest) To: eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Subject: eda-thoughts-digest V1 #212 Reply-To: eda-thoughts@smoe.org Sender: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk eda-thoughts-digest Tuesday, September 22 1998 Volume 01 : Number 212 * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * eda-thoughts-digest-request@smoe.org with ONLY * the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: eda-thoughts-digest V1 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. Today's Subjects: ----------------- ET: Re: Re: EDAF: Organization Ideas ["Kevin Pease" ] ET: MrBB's post to EDAF and ET - All PLEASE read #2 [Mike Connell ] ET: Web Site/ Links [Crunch ] ET: Re: Re: population: nothing ["Kevin Pease" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:08:23 -0400 From: "Kevin Pease" Subject: ET: Re: Re: EDAF: Organization Ideas >> Alan writes: >[...] I don't want this idea to die a slow death like so many >other "projects". I think one of the biggest problems with projects that I've seen end up dying (both on & off the Jewel & EDA lists) is a lack of clear focus & leadership. I think we can all agree that something should be done about this project, but it needs *somebody* to be in charge of coordinating everything. I'm not saying we need somebody to give orders, but somebody needs to keep track of these ideas, keep track of who's interested, keep things organized & running smoothly & "coordinating the war effort", so to speak. Most of the projects I've seen die haven't died because of a lack of interest, but have died, instead, from a lack of focus & leadership - too many great ideas, too few people willing to ensure that they're seen through to the end. (And I'm not pointing fingers, or saying this is the case with this project, so please, nobody take offense. I'm just stating my observations, in what I've seen with the EDA lists and in other areas - work, school & ROTC when I was there, extracurricular stuff... there's never a shortage of great ideas, but often, when it comes time to DO something, everybody becomes too busy to help.) As I said, I think we've all agreed that *something* should be done about this. Now the questions are: What should be done, and Who's going to make sure it gets done, and keep track of the details? N.B.: I don't mean to come across like, "I'm too busy, so who's going to tell me what to do?" If nobody else is more qualified, or willing to work on this, I have plenty of spare time, and can make more, and I certainly want to be involved in this project, in whatever capacity is needed. I'd be more than happy to help with the coordination of this project, but I suspect there's quite a few people out there more qualified & suitable for the coordination of this project. :) Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:11:46 -0400 From: "Kevin Pease" Subject: Re: ET: The way we were >> JANE writes: >maybe there could also be >crisis hotline numbers posted on the site just incase someone needs to >talk to another person immediately and can't wait for email. just a >suggestion. :) This is what I was thinking would be the most sensible way to go, in terms of eventual direction for this site... as Mike said, legal liability *could* be a major problem with this, and I think that most of the people who are willing to help, while we'd all have good intentions, aren't necessarily the best qualified to be helping, and could help in more ways by referring the people who need help to local crisis centers. Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:41:26 -0400 From: Mike Connell Subject: ET: MrBB's post to EDAF and ET - All PLEASE read #2 Short and sweet. Just as long as this discussion on the "suicidal EDAs" etc continues, I've set up the EDAF and EDA-thoughts lists so that folks on one list can cross-post to the other. What has been happening is that folks on one list and not on the other that legitimately hit "reply-all" are having their posts for the one list bounce to the list owner (me) for approval, and it's been driving me batty with a mega-shitload of extra work. You SHOULD hit reply-all to send the post to both lists and the author of the post you are replying too. It'll all work smoothly now. I'll change it back when it seems like the right thing to do. Mike P.S. Please AVOID using the word subscribe or subscribers in your posts, they WILL bounce for sure. (It's the majordomo filter that keeps the "unsubscribe" posts fron getting through to the list, but unfortunately it also keeps the legit posts that use the word "subscribers" etc. ) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 21:54:54 -0700 From: moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Charlie, Cobby # the GoA) Subject: ET: back I'm home everybody....I'll write more tomorrow about the week that was THE MOST amazing week of my entire life....I will never ever be the same. Love Sam P.S. I'm a swing-dancin' chic now! "Some people come into our lives and quickly go. Some stay for awhile and leave footprints on our hearts. And we are never, ever the same." moonsong@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:57:07 -0400 From: Mike Connell Subject: ET: IMPORTANT concerning cross-posting to the other list One thing I neglected to mention, and really shouldn't have to.....but just in case. :-) Please, ONLY cross-post to the other list if your post is partaking in this crucial discussion about problemed EDAs and you want to input and/or help in this cause. Mike :-)  : \    / :                    -- o -- :                      /    \ :                             .---.           .---. :                           /      \  @    /      \ :                         / / /     \(   ) /    \ \  \ :                       //////  /    '     `       --\\\\ :                     / /   /  / :         :   --\  \  \ \ :                    //  / /   /   /`     \     --\\ \   \\ :                  / /   /  /  / /  . .  . \ \  \    \   \ \                     We are everyday angels. :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 01:09:11 EDT From: CLEARVVATR@aol.com Subject: ET: Re: population: nothing In a message dated 98-09-21 18:21:45 EDT, you write: << ?? 73,000 is a teeny-tiny little town? Yikes... I shudder to wonder what you'd think of the size of my hometown: population, ~15,000. :) Granted, I've never heard of Sarnia, but 73,000 isn't THAT small... :) >> Whoa kev, 15,000?! where do you live? that is small but small is good i guess. hey just wonderin'...anyone here from L.A. or CA. seems like all y'guys are from the east coast or mid west. damn hicks..."hey now jen. no need for name calling." yeah, yeah, i talk to myself. it soothes my inner demons aaarrrrggghhh!! love, jen "the kookybaka tennis angel" ~in my head it makes sense but it all comes out as a big ol' confusing mess-me~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 22:22:09 -0700 From: moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Charlie, Cobby & the GoA) Subject: ET: a song for the night angels, no doubt i'll have more poems to come, but for now here's a song i wrote after the past week. love sam the ? angel song in a meadow sm sept 21 98 night moved in & the moon came closer to earth the sun was but a shadow & the stars dropped to the hearth you came up behind me & your breath trickled out steam your arms wrapped around me it was too good to be a dream so the sky opened up & poured forth her emotions on to our souls facing the trees in this place of intensity we will sort through our worries & emerge in ecstasy gone was the day & the grass decided to sway the brilliance of the day in the heart we will stay all of you hold me in depth, love, friendship & security the living we seep in is an all powerful mystery the sky opened up & poured forth her emotions on to our souls facing the trees in this place of intensity we will sort through our worries & emerge in ecstasy we will emerge together in ecstasy moonsong@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 01:19:58 EDT From: ABershaw@aol.com Subject: ET: Re: Kevin's directory idea Kevin wrote: > I already told Alan this.... I'm more than willing to help out in any way I can, >and would be very happy to do research into sites like this, and help to design >& put up such a web directory, and help to refer people to appropriate >"qualified" resources. > Earlier today, I performed a brief search (10 minutes) through Yahoo & >Altavista on the topic of suicide, and found a *lot* of (professional, >official) resources that might be useful and helpful to someone in a bad >way. I don't mean 5 pages, either... I turned up a hundred or so, just on a >quick search. I think that having a directory of these resources for people >to look at, and a few people (not necessarily "qualified" for this job) >willing to help people find the appropriate professional resources in their >area, is a good idea, and could be immensely helpful to the EDA community, >and possibly, other people who come across the page, as well. Hi one last time tonight (I promise!), A web directory like Kevin speaks of is definately a good idea in my opinion. Doing that would be a great start. We'd then need to establish an easy procedure to establish contact with a real person who's willing to listen & help encourage using the directory resources if needed. Preferably, a small group of you that are most knowledgable about these situations (and knowledgable of the directory itself, so you can lead them to local more experienced help if needed) I also will be happy to encourage all Jewelsite webmasters to include a link & brief info about this. I'm sure every one of them would be most happy to do it, once it exists & confidential contacts are available. I want you all to know that your input on this idea is most definately appreciated! Its not something needed every day, but could be an invaluable thing when it is needed. It will only be needed once in a while by EDAs, but I'm certain it will be used by many eventually. I also know many EDAs have non-EDA friends who they may be able to help if they know where to find help & who to ask. Goodnight & Thanks! Alan (MrBB) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 01:30:47 -0500 From: Summer Burton Subject: ET: I'm back too! Just a quick note to say hi! I love you all! Camp changed my life! Samara/Sam is really awesome! AND I feel better about life than ever before (cause camp renewed my faith in humanity and love and creative things) and worse (because I had to leave the most incredible people ever) That's about all for now.. Love, Summer ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 03:36:29 -0400 From: Crunch Subject: ET: Web Site/ Links =) Kevin reported that he did a search and came up with hundreds of websites for "help", "support", etc. Anyone who is depressed or distressed can do the same thing. However, they do not, at least not the target group we are talking about here. They have a want/need to speak with someone (often Jewel) personally and immediately. Any number of help lines are available in the phone book. However, these are venues which these people have rejected and discarded already. They want human contact and care. =) Directing these fellow EDAs to web site is like saying, "You know what? I really don't have the time, nor the energy, nor the desire to put in the effort to help you get through this." Instead, why not be able to say, "I don't think I am capable of giving you what you need, but I will help you get in touch with someone who can help you figure it out. I'll talk to them with you. Let's see what we can all do, OK?" =) Essentially, the only training we need is to be able to care and give some time. The only other thing we need to know, in case of emergency, is how to call the operator, ask for Crisis Intervention, and what to say to them. I think that is manageable and possible! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:12:17 -0400 From: "Kevin Pease" Subject: ET: Re: Re: population: nothing >> Jen writes: >Whoa kev, 15,000?! where do you live? A little town called Millbury (pronounced "Millbree", I do NOT live in "Millberry"... :), in central Massachusetts, just south of Worcester (that's pronounced "Wistah" or "Wustah", to you non-locals... not "Worsester" or "Worchester". :) >hey just wonderin'...anyone here from L.A. or CA. seems like all y'guys are >from the east coast or mid west. damn hicks... Hey now! :) I'll have you know that Millbury is a very sophisticated, polished town. Even our cows are cultured. :) Actually, I have to say, compared to another town nearby, we are pretty sophisticated. Any town where people keep a cow as a housepet, well... that's pretty strange, if you ask me. And I swear, I am not making this up - I was running a cross-country meet in this town once in high school, and I was running by a house... out in front was this big dog-house-looking thing, with the name "Buttercup" stenciled above the door. Tied to the tree in the front yard just in front of this dog-house was, and again, I swear I am not making this up, A COW. That's right, a cow, you know, "Moo, moo, moo, moo" - that sort of cow. They had a cow in their front yard, it had a big dog-house-type thing with it's name stencilled on it, and it was tied to a tree on a little run, like you would put a dog on. Now *THAT*, to me, is a pretty weird, inappropriate, and awful smelly housepet. Kevin - ---------- Kevin Pease kbpease@boston.crosswinds.net (ICQ UIN: 3106063) (AOL Instant Messenger: kbpease) http://www.crosswinds.net/boston/~kbpease "I have a tendency to wear my mind on my sleeve, I have a history of taking off my shirt..." ---(Barenaked Ladies, "One Week")--- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:41:00 -0400 From: "Kevin Pease" Subject: ET: Re: Web Site/ Links >> Crunch writes: >=) Kevin reported that he did a search and came up with hundreds >of websites for "help", "support", etc. Anyone who is depressed >or distressed can do the same thing. Yes, they can do the same thing... but will they? I know plenty of people (depressed and otherwise) that can't find information they need or want, simply because they don't know how or where to look to get the information. When somebody's in a less-than-completely logical state of mind, it's very conceivable that they won't think to look for help, or won't be able to figure out where to find the help if they decide they want it. >They want human contact and care. True... and that's why I said: "I think that having a directory of these resources for people to look at, and a few people (not necessarily "qualified" for this job) willing to help people find the appropriate professional resources in their area, is a good idea, and could be immensely helpful..." I didn't mean to imply that we should just respond to all the emails with a form letter, stating, "Hey, tough luck kiddo, check http://we-don't-care.org". What I was thinking was more along the lines of these volunteers contact the people, and talk with them, and help to direct them to appropriate resources in their area, and then the volunteers could keep in touch with the people asking for help, to give them a little encouragement & make sure they're getting the help they need. The web directory could be a good resource for the volunteers (if it takes them half an hour to find a local service, that could conceivably be too long... a centralized directory would be extremely helpful in that way, too), as well as anybody else who may be a little too uncomfortable to ask fellow EDAs for help. Those people could find the information they need on their own, if they don't want another EDA's help in finding it. > Instead, why not be able to say, > "I don't think I am capable of giving you > what you need, but I will help you get in > touch with someone who can help you figure > it out. I'll talk to them with you. Let's > see what we can all do, OK?" Like I said, I didn't mean to imply that we just respond with a form letter saying, "Check the web site," I agree 100% with this statement. What I was thinking was that the volunteers would act more as mediators, and help put the people in touch with a professional crisis counselor, and then keep in touch & offer a little encouragement & follow up to make sure that the person is getting some help. I think we agree, for the most part... but my email last night may very well have been unclear as to what I truly meant. Hopefully, a little sleep has allowed me to clarify it a bit more. :) Kevin - ---------- Kevin Pease kbpease@boston.crosswinds.net (ICQ UIN: 3106063) (AOL Instant Messenger: kbpease) http://www.crosswinds.net/boston/~kbpease "I have a tendency to wear my mind on my sleeve, I have a history of taking off my shirt..." ---(Barenaked Ladies, "One Week")--- ------------------------------ End of eda-thoughts-digest V1 #212 **********************************