From: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org (eda-thoughts-digest) To: eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Subject: eda-thoughts-digest V1 #186 Reply-To: eda-thoughts@smoe.org Sender: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk eda-thoughts-digest Wednesday, September 9 1998 Volume 01 : Number 186 Today's Subjects: ----------------- ET: card [kara garbe ] Re: ET: Re: thee gooddancer/baddancer ["Kevin Pease" ] Re: ET: I want out [NiKoS12@aol.com] ET: Re: Kevin's poem [moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Charlie, Cob & the GoA)] ET: Re: Kevin's poem ["Kevin Pease" ] ET: more goodguy/badguy [moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Charlie, Cob & the GoA)] ET: Re: Kevin's poem [moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Charlie, Cob & the GoA)] ET: **new question** [sesykes@juno.com (S.E.S Pool)] ET: Re: Kevin's poem ["Kevin Pease" ] Re: ET: abuse topic [Uneaq1@webtv.net (Maggie)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:10:49 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: kara garbe Subject: ET: card Hey everyone, my friend sent this to me today in a card and I wanted to share it. *~*~*~* Desiderata Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender, be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly, and listen to others. You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should. Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive that to be. And whatever your labors and your aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace with your soul. With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. ~Anonymous~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:03:16 -0400 From: "Kevin Pease" Subject: Re: ET: Re: thee gooddancer/baddancer >> Sue writes: > So now I guess I can add this to my little stack of quotes. Right >next to, life is like a box of chocolates: > Girls are like pizza, the look good when they're hot or cold. > Kevin, your a gem. Thanks. :) It *is* meant in a complimentary way, believe it or not. :) While *some* people may not see the comparison between pizza, and girls dancing, there is a connection... they're two things that I like, a whole lot. :) I'm glad somebody appreciates my work here. :) Kevin - ---------- Kevin Pease kbpease@boston.crosswinds.net (ICQ UIN: 3106063) (AOL Instant Messenger: kbpease) http://www.crosswinds.net/boston/~kbpease "Sometimes I sing like my life is at stake, 'cause you're only as loud as the noises you make..." ---(Ani DiFranco)--- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 19:06:16 -0700 From: Jan Winters Subject: ET: poems by her, poems by me angels today in econ class i felt bored beyond beflief. oh trust me, the stock market is one exciting thing. i'm dating a future stock broker in a year, who is fasinated by what i have learned to hate: numbers. but today i figured something horrible optimistic, which made me realize this dude that i'm dating is rubbing off on me, and i'm becoming less cynical. here it is: econ is an inspiration for poetry. to either read it or write it, 4th hour econ class is now great for poetry. i'll talk to the dude i'm dating about money, stocks and numbers, but for that hour slot every day, i'm talking to myself and other poets. anyhow, i got out an old favorite of mine: julia alvaraz. and read her work again during class. and again i remembered how much i love her. here are a few poems from her for ya. WOMAN FRIEND before you round the corner and are gone I wave and note how easily my palm blots out your car, the motors hum megers with the sunday traffic back from church. you drove up for a weekend visit, to give my life a closer reading, then catch me up on on your story; both plots, this time going well. the heroins about to make the big move we both hope will end in love if not, that's what we're for late nights or weekends when the rates go down, we call and splurge on sadness, bad dreams, or good intentions that become ambivalent in deed, desires to be saved in some big way we've learned ab5out in the movies. always, we bring up love, either in it's past tense as loss or in it's future, longing Afraid of weekend loneliness we meet and call it since we're women, friends Before you left, we hugged, promised absolutes we hope we won't be called to account for midweek when we're hard at work earning the living husbands used to pay for when we were heroines of our mother's stories After you leave, i clean house, fold your bedding roll the mattress back into the couch and tidy any little disorder you created by being here. Ashamed, i've saved my heartbreaks only for the men who come and go.. AGAINST CINDERELLA whoever made it up is pulling my foot so it'll fit that show. i'll go along with the martyrdom- she swept and wept, mended, stoked the fire slaved while her three stepsisters who just happened to oblige their meanness by being ugly, dressed themselves. i'll swallow that there was a singer godmother who magically could sew a pattern up and hem it in an hour, that cinderella got to be a debutante and lost her head and later lost her show. but i stop there. i can't believe only one woman in that town had that size foot, could fit into that show,. i've felt enough of lost and found to know that if you losr your heart to anyone you've crowned into a prince, you might not get it back. that the old kerchief trick, whether you drop a shoe, your clothes, your life doesn't do much but litter up the world that when the knock at last comes to your door, you might not be home or willing. that some of us have learned to go barefoot knowing the mate to one foot is the other. UNTITLED Let's make a modern primer for our kids: A is for Auschwitz; B for Biafra; Chile Dachau; El Salvador; F is the Falklands Grenada; Hiroshima stands for H; Northern Ireland for I j is for Jonestown; K is for Korea; L is for massacres in Lidice; My Lai; N, Nicaragua; O, Okinawa; P is for the Persian Gulf and Qatar for Q; Rwanda; Sarajevo-this year's hell; T is for Treblinka and Uganda U; Vietnam and Wounded knee. What's left to spell? And X to name the countless dissapeared when they are dust in Yemen or Zaire. UNTITLED. Secretly i am building in the heart a delicate structure like one of those cardhouses or popsicle palaces kids build, patiently piecing each part together, fingers pinching a small tube of glue, eyes straining to perceive what new thing i am making that takes so much time to finish if there's finish in these things. and making it out of nothing but what are ruins from an earlier effort and tempted constantly to beleieve that a readymade is better, and yet i've labored with my heart to outlast the heart with this thing i'm creating out of love. UNTITLED sometimes the words are so cloe i am more who i am when i'm down on paper than anywhere else as if my life were practising for the real me i become unbuttoned from the anectdotal and unnecessary and undressed down to the figure of the poem, line by line the real test a child could understand. why do i get confused living it through? those of you lose and yearning to be free, who hear these words, take heart from me. i once was in as many drafts as you. but briefly, essentially, here i am. who thouches this poem touches a woman. ~all the above by julia alavaraz NUMBERS numbers, i've decided they are the problem with life every barrier infront of me, is all because of numbers. either i am too young, or his age has too many numbers to it or the score on a test isn't a high enough number. for economic problems, to the number of dollars in my wallet number constantly influence and take over my life. i heard of a culture, where they count up to 3. once you past two, it's everything after that. i want to live there and embrace, their wonderful realization that numbers are nothing but a waste of time and constantly get in the way BY me! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:11:19 EDT From: NiKoS12@aol.com Subject: Re: ET: I want out me too I want out of the this everday thoughts thingy, I hate it ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:38:44 -0700 From: moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Charlie, Cob & the GoA) Subject: ET: Re: Kevin's poem Angels n Kevin especially~~ >I'm sure you can figure out what it's about. :) Like I said, be gentle..= >. >but don't be afraid to laugh, I was laughing when I dug this one out, too.= Gawsh guy, yeh really have a bad case of low self-esteem, that combined with the dancing thing. :) HOWEVER! I SAY..... LET'S HEAR IT FOR KEVIN! That was a GREAT poem! Omagosh! It was so good!!!!! It's beautiful! Sam the ? angel >- -------------------- >And I find myself wondering >at how those small hands >can stutter-step against my heart >push-pull, push-pull. > >And now you've let me go, >and I'm falling away >at the same speed as the tears >that slide from your chin. > >And my mind strains and bends >choking on unfamiliar words >too large to comprehend, spoken >in a language only you understand > >and all you can say is >"it's over" > >and all you can say is >"there's someone else" > >And all I can say is >"I'll always love you" > >but I'm falling faster than sound, >so that's a voice you'll never hear. >- --------------- > > That's all. Now you see, my qualifications for writing "poetry" are >shaky at best... I realize it's something best left to the experts. :) Kevin Kevin...c'mon now.... a) We are no experts! It's all about letting out what's within you! and b) You're a really good writer. > Hey now. :) I meant that, even girls who dance badly, still look >pretty good. :) Sort of like pizza - when it's hot, it's good... when it's >cold... well, it's still pretty damn good, too. :) Heyy I like that!! And Jackie....I'm SOO sorry.... Sam the ? angel moonsong@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:47:31 -0400 From: "Kevin Pease" Subject: ET: Re: Kevin's poem >> Sam writes: >Gosh guy, yeh really have a bad case of low self-esteem, that combined >with the dancing thing. :) >That was a GREAT poem! Omagosh! It was so good!!!!! Nope... what I have is a bad case of realism, my dear. :) I'm glad you liked it, and I'm not going to tell you you're wrong or anything to like it, but I really don't see that it's all that good, honestly. >a) We are no experts! It's all about letting out what's within you! True... but some of you all are a lot closer to being an expert than I am, trust me. :) I know what I like in poetry, and the stuff I've written over the years doesn't typically fall into the "what I like" category. :) Kevin - ---------- Kevin Pease kbpease@boston.crosswinds.net (ICQ UIN: 3106063) (AOL Instant Messenger: kbpease) http://www.crosswinds.net/boston/~kbpease "Saw things so much clearer, once you were in my rearview mirror..." ---(Pearl Jam)--- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:55:28 -0700 From: moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Charlie, Cob & the GoA) Subject: ET: more goodguy/badguy >>It's easy to fall in line with Mr Fine Jerk and be used and lose, but >it>takes time effort and a lot of thinking about life and really feeling >to>attach to The Good Guy. > See, here, I don't agree. And no offense Sam, but the nice guys >aren't hard to like.Really. Maybe because the one your thinking of isn't >"Popular" so you have to break through those barriers before you even >notice him. I mean, when I meet a nice guy, the last thing I start doing >is annalysing life and my feelings to know it. I dunno. I geuss that's >just my 2 cents on that. Now, see, I'm a homeschooler, and so the word "popular" doesn't exist. :) So really, I was just speaking from a few generalized experiences. I know a lot of nice guys, but most of them are the majorly shy, in the corner type of guy, so when you're buddying around with the more outgoing buddy guys and the rebelious-flirt guys it takes a lot to break away and go talk to the shy guy. I'm not saying I don't do that, because I do. I guess I just mean the Shy Nice Guy as compared to the Not Shy Nice Guy. I don't mean that nice guys are hard to like. Nice guys are really easy to like. Both the "goodguys" and the "badguys" are easy to like, but sometimes the "badguy" image gets in the way first. > Yes, I agree. But do you love the BAD guy? or are you just attracted >to his attire and actions? I, personally, don't really care for bad guys at all. :) I was kind of speculating on what I've observed. (Usually. Sometimes it's almost happened to ME! *grin*) My own experiences, too, prove that seemingly-nice guys can be (scuse this) shitheads, and seemingly-scary-bad guys can be sweet (we get into these generalizations, when really, we're all human, we all have these sides, some just get elaborated, and we just express ourselves on the outside in different ways). Anyway, getting off track and weird. My ex seemed the nice guy: got along with parents, mingled, seemed sweet and sensitive. But inside he was a definate asshole. > I think your exactly on here though. Woooow. *in awe* :) >The good ones never seem to want >to ask you to dance do they? Only the ones who want to do it so they can >grab your butt when you dance in front of their buddies... *grimace* Exactly, right on. Sam the ? angel moonsong@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:01:37 -0700 From: moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Charlie, Cob & the GoA) Subject: ET: Re: Kevin's poem > Nope... what I have is a bad case of realism, my dear. :) I'm glad you Awwww, shit. Now you and Jamie both are doing the "my dear thing." See Naomi, I'm saying, it's a bad idea that we revealed our ages!! :) Now damn Sue where is that e-mail of yours, it had a great line about all of this that I wanted to quote.... *says reallly quietly,* Well, I think to the people that it's personal for (the writer in this case) it seems real....You tend to be more critical of your own work..... >but I really don't see that it's all that good, honestly. Hmm. We need to work on this man gals! (And hey, guys, take part. Harhar.) > True... but some of you all are a lot closer to being an expert than I >am, trust me. :) I know what I like in poetry, and the stuff I've written >over the years doesn't typically fall into the "what I like" category. :) Well, I obviously can't fight THAT. However, *nods* It falls into the "Sam likes" catagory. Sam the ? angel moonsong@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:05:25 -0500 From: sesykes@juno.com (S.E.S Pool) Subject: ET: **new question** Hey Angels, I have a new question for you guys. It may not be too interesting but maybe a little reality will come out. What do you think of rap violence in the 90's? For example: Tupac's death and Notorious B.I.G's death. Feel free to answer this one Kevin. Maybe those phat beats will be layed down for you!!! ** Scott S.** -Big Sexy Angel "MISPLACED HATE MAKES DISGRACED RACES!" -Tupac Shakur R.I.P _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 21:11:31 -0400 From: "Kevin Pease" Subject: ET: Re: Kevin's poem >> Sam writes: >Awwww, shit. Now you and Jamie both are doing the "my dear thing." See >Naomi, I'm saying, it's a bad idea that we revealed our ages!! :) Now >damn Sue where is that e-mail of yours, it had a great line about all of >this that I wanted to quote.... Sorry... it'll never happen again. :) >Hmm. We need to work on this man gals! (And hey, guys, take part. Harhar.) Hey now... I'm not a car that needs an oil change or something. :) >Well, I obviously can't fight THAT. >However, *nods* >It falls into the "Sam likes" category. Okay, I can live with that. :) - ---------- Kevin Pease kbpease@boston.crosswinds.net (ICQ UIN: 3106063) (AOL Instant Messenger: kbpease) http://www.crosswinds.net/boston/~kbpease "Saw things so much clearer, once you were in my rearview mirror..." ---(Pearl Jam)--- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:26:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Uneaq1@webtv.net (Maggie) Subject: Re: ET: abuse topic - --WebTV-Mail-1431072317-701 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit I come from a battered background. My father punched my mother (he was high & drunk) when I was 2 mos. old...and in my mother's arms. She left less than 20 minutes later and had no contact with him until I was 5. My little brother's dad Randy (yeah, the asshole that tried to take him away) was an abusive drunk. I spent a week (during Halloween) and 2 mos. (over Christmas) there (with mom & lil' bro) in 3rd grade. I remember once, when Randy came hom drunk and mom wouldn't do the...umm...never mind...with him and she came into bed to sleep with me and locked my bedroom door. Randy broke the door down and lifted up the end of the box spring and we slid down to the wall and hit our heads. I will never. Ever. EVER! Be have a friend, boyfiend, guy friend, or whatever that doesn't treat me right. No matter what. I prefer the good guys. They just don't like me. It's like I'm wearing purple while the rest of the world is wearing black. But that's a whole 'nother issue. Maggie. PS: Thanks fer listening! - --WebTV-Mail-1431072317-701 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from mailsorter-101.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-101.iap.bryant.webtv.net [207.79.35.91]) by postoffice-112.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.5/po.gso.24Feb98) with ESMTP id VAA24485; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:51:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mermaid.shore.net (mermaid.shore.net [207.244.124.6]) by mailsorter-101.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.graham.14Aug97) with SMTP id VAA12158; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:51:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smoe.org [204.167.97.154] by mermaid.shore.net with esmtp (Exim) id 0zGFiE-0004GC-00; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:49:06 -0400 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) with SMTP id AAA02271; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:48:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by smoe.org (bulk_mailer v1.10); Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:48:05 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) id AAA02230 for eda-thoughts-outgoing; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/daemon-mode-relay2) with ESMTP id AAA02223 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:47:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA11442 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:46:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from irv-ca58-77.ix.netcom.com(199.35.100.77) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma011413; Mon Sep 7 23:45:45 1998 X-Sender: moonsong@popd.ix.netcom.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:51:07 -0700 To: eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org From: moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Charlie, Cob & the GoA) Subject: ET: abuse topic Sender: owner-eda-thoughts@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Scott said: >>>Why is it that women say they can't find a good man when one is most likely sitting next to him? I've been told so many stories of abusive relationships where the girl gets hit or whatever and she's with him to the day. I can understand the love does have a factor in relationships but why him when right around the corner might be a guy who loves to give flowers, lie underneath the stars talking about life and love's little mysteries? If you're looking for a good man, then, well, we're all around?<<< Kevin said: >>> There's a lot more to abusive relationships than love, though... it has a lot to do with "power" in the relationship, and the way the particular guy and girl approach their respective roles in the relationship... past histories have a lot to do with this type of relationship as well. Abusers were often abused... Abusees were often abused, as well... many of the abusers end up copying their childhood role models, and many of the abusees often can't break free from their attachment to their childhood abusers... unfortunately, a vicious cycle, and one that can't be explained by a simple, "He says he loves me," or "She says she loves me..." To many people in relationships like this, they have no real conception of the existence of people who *don't* abuse, and what it's like to be loved without the fear of being socked in the face... it's the norm, and it's accepted that people hit or get hit by both parties... It's not right, but it's the sad, unfortunate way it works.<<< Exactly to both Sue and to Kevin. And, yes, "POWER" is the big word here. And it also has a lot to do with the threatening. You know, it's easy for us, on the outside, to say, "get up and leave." But where do you go? And when he threatens to kill you, it's easy to believe, especially when he's thrown you against the wall and punched you in the face and broken your arms. I heard a call once from a girl whose mother was a druggie and whose father was an acoholic and abusive. He limited everything she did, up to things like disconnecting phones even I believe, he was violent to her boyfriend, violent to her if she tried to leave, her boyfriend was supportive but was getting discouraged, she was trapped with absolutely no way out. What would you do? It's easy to say, it's harder to act. My sister worked in a Battered Women's Shelter. She took emergency calls, worked with the women in support groups and had many frightening encounters. One woman walked out of the shelter and her husband was in a car waiting. Many women went back to their husbands and boyfriends, others tried to go through with breaking away. It was hard for my sister to hear the frantic calls she took, hard to see the battered faces, hard to put her own life in danger, hard to be the only one of anyone she knew who was allowed to know where the shelter was (for safety reasons). But she did it. My dad has also recieved papers from abused women. They are heartbreaking. So with this kind of background in my family and from the things I've learned, I personally find it rather upsetting and slightly insulting when a person, especially a guy, simplifies (and I am not talking about you Kevin, NOT at all) the situations of battered women. Scott said, "why did they take the abusers when we nice guys are around." Well that often starts from the littler things, like flirting with the motorcycle druggie at school, or even being abused at a young age and going after the same kind of loser. Eventually you wind yourself more and more into a net till you tie your own noose, unless you get out. It isn't easy at all. Their lives are hell. And usually it seems like there's no way out. Sam the ? angel moonsong@ix.netcom.com - --WebTV-Mail-1431072317-701-- ------------------------------ End of eda-thoughts-digest V1 #186 **********************************