From: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org (eda-thoughts-digest) To: eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Subject: eda-thoughts-digest V1 #180 Reply-To: eda-thoughts@smoe.org Sender: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk eda-thoughts-digest Tuesday, September 8 1998 Volume 01 : Number 180 Today's Subjects: ----------------- ET: a late night inspiration [ICURMINE@aol.com] Re: ET: abuse topic [sesykes@juno.com (Scott - E Sykes)] Re: ET: abuse topic [moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Charlie, Cob & the GoA)] ET: Re: more on the love thing ["Kevin Pease" ] ET: good boys vs bad boys [Jan Winters ] ET: abusive relationships ["Jennifer Greeley" ] Re: ET: abuse topic ["Kevin Pease" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:48:46 EDT From: ICURMINE@aol.com Subject: ET: a late night inspiration I was tryin to go to sleep last night about 230 or 3 and couldnt get this out of my head, so i got up and wrote it down. Hope it isnt too lame. Can U Feel It? 9/8/98 Tim LaGrange can u feel it? a little to the left... thats it! the tightening in my chest... it must be our souls, intertwined. I must have been wicked in a previous life to hurt like this ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:48:40 -0500 From: sesykes@juno.com (Scott - E Sykes) Subject: Re: ET: abuse topic On Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:35:17 -0700 moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Charlie, Cob & the GoA) writes: >At 1:47 AM 9/8/1998, Scott - E Sykes wrote: >>A women has the power to say no! If i can do it, you can do it! Get >>help is really all it takes, the man isnt gonna be there 24-7, call >the >>police, call a friend, call the FBI. When power is put in your >hands, >>the world is yours. If my life was ever threatened (and it has), i >know >>my back is taken care of! And whatever happened to self defense? It >a >>guy pushes a lady against the wall, she can do 1 move and he'll be >out >>for hours. You'd be surprised what the body is capable of! >> Just like the ad says, "Don't let it happen to you!" >> >>(note to everyone) if you ever have any problem like this, tell me! >Help >>will find you! > >Things are a lot different for men. I know everyone's gonna jump on >me and >say, "Sam, how sexist!" But centuries of sexism has been bred into >this >culture, and from those centuries we've resulted in the way we have. >This >culture is a result of long-formed attitudes about men and women, and >I >think those strongly affect to a great extent the ways in which we >think >about ourselves. It's easy for you, as a guy, to say, "yeah, I was in >danger, but I kicked his butt." However when your history includes >being >the passive sex, things are NEVER easy. And easy solutions are quite >insulting actually. >I don't think that anyone has any right to judge a battered woman. >You >don't know the emotional states involved. Self defense is a great >idea, >but other things are often involved with these women here. I mean, if >they >have kids, they often don't want to fight in front of the wide-eyed >innocent little two year old. Men are, BY NATURE, stronger than >women, and >fighting back, especially in a panic that's not thought through (as if >there's time to think that through) can lead to being seriously harmed >yourself. >I'm sure self-defense would come in great handy, but look at things in >the >long run. With the emotional issues involved and things at stake, >these >women feel trapped, and they are, at least from their standpoint. >Unless >they get out--that involves A LOT--they have to keep living with this >guy, >being caught off guard when he comes home drunk, and being lulled back >into >believing he loves her. >I believe that "just say no" bullshit is exactly that--bullshit--and >so is >"don't let it happen to you." >Precautions and taking self-defense is a very good idea but seriously, >how >many girls take karate because they think they'll marry an abuser? I >agree >that abused women SHOULD call friends, police, FBI, but it's the >emotional >ties and the threats that he will find her that keep her sared. We >really >have no place to say what they should and shouldn't do until we are in >exactly their position. And I don't mean having a knife held to you >in >some allyway in East LA, but being involved in a long-term, >long-standing >abusive relationship, with a kid, responsibilities, delt the smaller >hand >and feeling trapped. > >Sam >the ? angel > > > >moonsong@ix.netcom.com > > > I'm sorry, i have to disagree! I am 100% equal any given woman. I may be stronger but that's not the case. Knowledge is power. If i was a little weakling with 0.9995% muscle i could still win a fight! It's as simple as taking a couple classes to defend yourself! I totally agree that it is hard for a woman in a committed relationship to say no or get out but it is very possible! If you can say See ya then you can get out. I truly believe as well that a guy can't understand the female point of view but it's hard for us to see that you just can't get up and leave. I think that a guy can never be put in a girl's and vice versa. But if you have the power in your mind to make your own decisions rather than them be made for you, then anything is possible! Can we put an ending on this discussion? I think it's going a little deep! Thanks, ** Scott S.** -Big Sexy Angel "MISPLACED HATE MAKES DISGRACED RACES!" -Tupac Shakur R.I.P _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:03:29 -0700 From: moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Charlie, Cob & the GoA) Subject: Re: ET: abuse topic >>>I'm sorry, i have to disagree! I am 100% equal any given woman. I may be stronger but that's not the case. Knowledge is power. If i was a little weakling with 0.9995% muscle i could still win a fight! It's as simple as taking a couple classes to defend yourself! I totally agree that it is hard for a woman in a committed relationship to say no or get out but it is very possible! If you can say See ya then you can get out. I truly believe as well that a guy can't understand the female point of view but it's hard for us to see that you just can't get up and leave. I think that a guy can never be put in a girl's and vice versa. But if you have the power in your mind to make your own decisions rather than them be made for you, then anything is possible! Can we put an ending on this discussion? I think it's going a little deep!<<< Fine if you want to give it up, that's your choice. However, first, it isn't just about "winning a fight". You don't seem to understand how much more is at stake. Yes knowledge is power but there is so much MORE. Anything is possible, yes, but just try being in that situation. moonsong@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:35:41 -0400 From: "Kevin Pease" Subject: ET: Re: more on the love thing >> Sam writes: >I duno, I just always thought....Well my parents love each other. They had >lots of bfs and gfs before each other, but I can tell they genuinely love >each other--they have gone through traumas and illness, deaths, gritty >times, all of it, and they're still together. I just always thought that >was the kind of love you're supposed to find, that maybe it starts out with >the passionate stuff and it gets into this more meaningful kind of love. >But how do you know?! Hi Sam... I know what you mean about your parents, my parents are still together (33 years, I think...), and still very much in love. That *is* the sort of love you're supposed to find... but I don't think it's necessarily only *one* person that will be like this for you, or anybody else... I really think the "one" is whichever one you feel is right... some people will feel more right than others, undoubtedly... and this is obviously how your parents (and my parents, too) feel about each other... could they have been just as happy with some other person? I think so... but they felt that what they had was the right one. You'll know, because you'll know... I don't think it can really be explained any better than that, although I welcome anybody else to give it a shot. :) Basically, my point is, if someone you think is "the one" turns out to not be "the one", you can and will fall in love again, and that person very well could be "the one"... I don't think there's only one possibility for any given person, though. Kevin - ---------- Kevin Pease kbpease@boston.crosswinds.net (ICQ UIN: 3106063) (AOL Instant Messenger: kbpease) http://www.crosswinds.net/boston/~kbpease "Sometimes I sing like my life is at stake, 'cause you're only as loud as the noises you make..." ---(Ani DiFranco)--- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:43:06 -0400 From: "Kevin Pease" Subject: Re: ET: Re: thee question >> Scott - E Sykes writes: >I can't speak for Leo or anyone but i do know this. Publicity is the way >to make a star. I a friend which will remain unnamed. His publicist >told him that he needs to make these appearances to make his career soar. > He also said that it doesn't matter if you're here to help, all that >matters is that you get seen! So because a "Hollywood publicist" says this, you want to live like that? My point was, if you're doing that stuff simply to get noticed, you're doing it for the wrong reason. My feeling on it is this: If you have to point out to people that you're a nice guy, you can't be that nice of a guy... (nothing personal here, I'm not saying you necessarily doing this... if you *are* doing this, then my feeling applies, if you *aren't*, this is a general opinion I'm expressing.) When I say nice guys don't do much to make themselves noticeable, I mean that they tend to be the sort of guys who are very shy around women, and can't or won't speak up and talk to someone very frequently. However, if someone's a really nice guy, and he spends half an hour telling some girl all the "nice guy things" you do, she's probably going to get real bored & real tired of listening to him brag about how nice he is... as a result, he's going to come off looking like a jackass. In essence - just do your thing, and let other people figure out whether or not they think you're a nice guy... don't shove it in their faces, it's a sure way to give the opposite impression. Kevin - ---------- Kevin Pease kbpease@boston.crosswinds.net (ICQ UIN: 3106063) (AOL Instant Messenger: kbpease) http://www.crosswinds.net/boston/~kbpease "Sometimes I sing like my life is at stake, 'cause you're only as loud as the noises you make..." ---(Ani DiFranco)--- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 15:27:56 -0700 From: Jan Winters Subject: ET: good boys vs bad boys hey there angels strange thing, i was thinking about this yestarday. someone made the comment to me, "kat, why do you keep going for the bad ones? the ones which you know aren't so great." i read an article which basicaly explained chicks and bad boys like this: when you are a little girl and go to the zoo with your parents you always saw the caged tiger. the tiger looked so fierce and angry, the zookeeper, the parents, even stranges would never allow you to just stick your hand in the cage and touch it. the thrill of it was all you wanted. now that your older, and the parents and the zookeeper aren't watching you constantly, you can go and put your hand in the cage. you can pet the tiger and turn him into a kitty. that's the thought racing through your mind when bad boy appears. there is nothing wrong with these bad guys; most of the time you know they aren't so great. there have been women before you, and i'm pretty sure there will be chicks after you. it's the memory of the bad dude that you want. i know that sound horrible and wrong, but it's kinda true. that guy that's right infront of your face? i have this great guy friend that is right infront of my face and i adore him. at times all i want is him; the loyalty that is already there and the comfort that only he can seem to provide at times. the gliche? sometimes i'm the best friend right infront of his face. girls have that problem as well. and also; with a bad boy you don't see forever. forever is a scary thing. but with that best friend; you don't want to break his heart, you don't want to somehow ruin him and become this bitch that at times you know you are. so basicaly; every girl wants a bad boy, most likely she goes through a stage of only wanting them. but BAHM one day every girl wants to marry a good guy. hopefully she'll realize that before she marries the bad one. another question: why is it that guys seems to always go for the slutty girls, the bitches, the snobs, and they have this great friend sitting right next to them who they can completley open up to. yet they only have eyes for the idiots??? girls go through some pathetic crap as well. kat > > I'd like to ask this question with the deapest and most respest. > > Why is it that women say they can't find a good man when one is most > likely sitting next to him? I've been told so many stories of abusive > relationships where the girl gets hit or whatever and she's with him to > the day. I can understand the love does have a factor in relationships > but why him when right around the corner might be a guy who loves to give > flowers, lie underneath the stars talking about life and love's little > mysteries? If you're looking for a good man, then, well, we're all > around? > > Why ladies? > > ** Scott S.** > -Big Sexy Angel > > "MISPLACED HATE MAKES DISGRACED RACES!" > -Tupac Shakur R.I.P > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 14:00:01 PDT From: "Jennifer Greeley" Subject: ET: abusive relationships well finally caught up with the 20 some digests. And this topic definitely caught my eye. Having been in a few abusive relationships before, and seeing 2 of my close friends and as well as an aunt, in abusive situations before, i know that it's alot easier to get into them than getting out of them. When i was going with several of the guys that were abusive, the thing that attracted me the most to them was their daring side. The fact that they rebeled against everything, did drugs, drank, or whatever. I would be with them for only a few days before the abuse started, and after that, when the threats started, getting out was more and more difficult, in fear of getting hurt more (either emotionally, physically, or even sexually.) I haven't been in one for a long while, unless you count extreme jealousy as being abusive.. When girls do see "the light" and get out of the relationships that started it, there is the "perfect" guy around the corner waiting for them. I found my perfect guy. He wasn't exactly around the corner but i did find him out of pure fate (as we say). I will be posting more poetry when i have a chance, but getting back into the swing of school, and trying to get everything straightened out first. But i have a writer's craft course this semester, so i should be producing some good things later on.. :) (and it will hopefully put me past this writer's block) love, and hugs, Jenny @->---- ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 17:01:06 -0400 From: "Kevin Pease" Subject: Re: ET: abuse topic >> Scott - E Sykes writes: >I'm sorry, i have to disagree! I am 100% equal any given woman. I may >be stronger but that's not the case. An admirable thought, but I hope it's not true. 100% equal would mean you *are* a woman. :) There are physiological and psychological differences between men and women, like it or not. We are not 100% equal to each other, no matter how hard you try to be. These differences don't make either gender superior or inferior, but they do make us *different*. The "average" woman is shorter and weaker than the "average" man... the "average" man isn't as in tune with his emotions & isn't as good at problem solving & resolution as the "average" woman is... do either of these things make one gender superior to the other? Nope. >Knowledge is power. If i was a >little weakling with 0.9995% muscle i could still win a fight! It's as >simple as taking a couple classes to defend yourself! No, it's not, it really isn't. Trust me... I'm 6'1" tall... and I'm not a small guy by any stretch of the imagination. About 3 years ago (4 days before my 21st birthday... happy birthday to me... :), I got jumped leaving the store I worked at. The guy who attacked me looked like a 5'4 heroin addict with the mange... I had a definite size advantage over him, and I had learned a few self-defense/hand-to-hand combat things through Army ROTC, so it's not like I didn't have a bit of knowledge about defending myself, either. He still managed to take $3600 of my store's money, and send me to the hospital to get 6 or 8 stitches in my hand. (Luckily, it was ONLY my hand... he was coming around from behind me at my throat when I saw the blade of the knife and was able to grab it.) Now, as I said... I had the knowledge, and I'm certainly not a weak or small guy... I still got my ass kicked. If somebody's really intent on doing harm to you, they're going to do harm to you. It's not as easy as just taking a class and opening up on someone with some kung fu moves... >I totally agree >that it is hard for a woman in a committed relationship to say no or get >out but it is very possible! If you can say See ya then you can get out. And if she says "Bye, see you later," you don't think that he'd try to hurt her? You don't think she knows this? Scott, you *really* should do a little research before you say things like this. In some cases, guys have gone so far as to hunt down the woman across the country, just so they can find her again... and in most cases like that, she's *lucky* if she *just* gets beaten, and not killed or maimed. It is *very* hard for a woman in an abusive relationship to get out... if it was that easy, do you think we'd still be seeing these problems? There's a lot of psychological "stuff" going on in the background, and it's *never* clear cut & black and white, as you seem to believe. >I truly believe as well that a guy can't understand the female point of >view but it's hard for us to see that you just can't get up and leave. > I think that a guy can never be put in a girl's and vice versa. But if >you have the power in your mind to make your own decisions rather than >them be made for you, then anything is possible! Again, an admirable ideal, but I don't think you have any concept of what these relationships are truly like. I really don't, either, but I have learned what they *can* be like, and I've seen what they *can* be like. It's not pretty, and it's not easy. To say that it's as simple as "getting up and leaving" shows that you don't really know how hard it is for a woman in a relationship like this to reach that point where she decides to get up and leave. I'll agree with your idealism... yes, women in these relationships SHOULD get up and leave, and guys who do this SHOULD be strung up in the town square... but it's a lot easier said than done, my friend. Go to your bookstore and check out some of the books on the topic... it'll be a real eye-opener. Kevin - ---------- Kevin Pease kbpease@boston.crosswinds.net (ICQ UIN: 3106063) (AOL Instant Messenger: kbpease) http://www.crosswinds.net/boston/~kbpease "Sometimes I sing like my life is at stake, 'cause you're only as loud as the noises you make..." ---(Ani DiFranco)--- ------------------------------ End of eda-thoughts-digest V1 #180 **********************************