From: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org (eda-thoughts-digest) To: eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Subject: eda-thoughts-digest V1 #179 Reply-To: eda-thoughts@smoe.org Sender: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk eda-thoughts-digest Tuesday, September 8 1998 Volume 01 : Number 179 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: ET:my two cents on Re: thee question ["Kevin Pease" ] ET: more on the love thing [moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Charlie, Cob & the Go] Re: ET: abuse topic [moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Charlie, Cob & the GoA)] Re: ET: Re: thee question [sesykes@juno.com (Scott - E Sykes)] ET: Leo Stuff [moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Charlie, Cob & the GoA)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:47:26 -0400 From: "Kevin Pease" Subject: Re: ET:my two cents on Re: thee question >> Sue writes: >And I think that if you see someone who's with a >jerk, then if truly are a nice guy, let yourself be known (Like Kevin >said) because these girls/guys need to know that there are better things >out there for them. I'm not saying go up and say. "God, get away from >that jerk!" Just show them your not one. Even if it's just by smiling at >them. I think you're right on with the "just by smiling at them" part... In these sorts of cases, I think the key is to be more of a friend if you see someone in that position. A lot of abusive relationships are built on a dependency that the abuser tries to build... he or she tries to make the abusee feel helpless and weak... feeds them all sorts of BS about how, "Nobody else will ever want you," and then goes on to hit them, but say, "I love you... I need you"... which makes the person taking the abuse (who is already feeling powerless) say, "Gee, I guess they're right. He/she may hit me, but I'm also told I'm loved, and needed here... nobody else would want me, so this is the best I'll get." To try to take someone out of a relationship like that and immediately thrust them into another relationship, or try to get them into another relationship... that's just setting them up for failure and disappointment. They don't know what a "normal" relationship is like, and they don't know what they want or need in a relationship, which makes them completely dependent again, but in a different way. The best way to avoid this is to be a friend, not to try to steal someone's girlfriend or boyfriend because you'll "treat them better". Approaching it with that philosophy, you're already slanting the relationship towards a parental/child dependent sort of relationship, which isn't all that different from the relationship you're trying to "help" the person out of. I guess what it boils down to is this: If your motivation is to help the other person (and not yourself), don't pitch yourself as a "low-fat, healthy alternative to that jerk!"... pitch yourself as a *friend*, who cares, and wants to help, period. Kevin - ---------- Kevin Pease kbpease@boston.crosswinds.net (ICQ UIN: 3106063) (AOL Instant Messenger: kbpease) http://www.crosswinds.net/boston/~kbpease "Sometimes I sing like my life is at stake, 'cause you're only as loud as the noises you make..." ---(Ani DiFranco)--- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:58:38 -0400 From: "Kevin Pease" Subject: ET: Re: this "thee question" thing that I'm behind on >> Sam writes: >Also as Kevin said, the "nice guys" sit on the sidelines, or are else >overshadowed by the "not nice guys," or else are so into the idea that they >will be overshadowed that they don't even try. Yep. I was there, and, really, I still am in a lot of ways. :) Like I've said, I hate starting conversations with people I don't know... frankly, I'd rather have un-anesthetized exploratory heart surgery. :) But I've actually gotten better at it in the past year or so, and I can say, while it may not work 100% of the time, it does work now and then. Really, what's worse - sitting there with your friends, or alone for the whole night, or going over, trying to make some conversation, and MAYBE falling flat on your face. Either way, worst case, you sit there by yourself, or with your friends. Of course, if you take the chance, you may not have to sit there all night listening to your friends talk about football scores. :) You don't need pickup lines, a simple, "Hi, how are you doing?" & a smile actually does work... (If you really need one, there's always - "Hey baby, there's a rummage sale in my pants, and you're invited!"... I wouldn't use it, unless somebody was offering to pay the resulting medical bills + money for pain and suffering, but I've always thought it would be fun to see the reaction to something like that... :) But anyway, too often, the nice guys sit off to the side, and get overlooked, because they don't make an attempt to make themselves noticed... and then they complain that nobody notices them. :) >It's really sad actually....But the nice guys will get their turn, and be >much more appreciated. It takes some lessons and learning I suppose. That's right... nice guys will get their turn, because you all don't realize, we're making plans to take over the world and enslave the women. :) You're too busy talking to the jerks, so we've been quietly planning for YEARS now... and the plan is nearly complete - total world domination is within our grasp - wait... I suppose that wouldn't make us nice guys anymore, huh? :) >I feel like I don't know what I'm talking about here....But I agree with >what Kevin said. He put it better actually. Thanks, Sam... but you did a fine job yourself. :) Kevin - ---------- Kevin Pease kbpease@boston.crosswinds.net (ICQ UIN: 3106063) (AOL Instant Messenger: kbpease) http://www.crosswinds.net/boston/~kbpease "Sometimes I sing like my life is at stake, 'cause you're only as loud as the noises you make..." ---(Ani DiFranco)--- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:05:47 -0400 From: "Kevin Pease" Subject: ET: Re: thee goodguy/badguy >> Sue writes: > I think your exactly on here though. The good ones never seem to want >to ask you to dance do they? Only the ones who want to do it so they can >grab your butt when you dance in front of their buddies... Wait wait wait! Isn't that what dancing is for? :) I can't speak for all "nice guys", or guys in general, really... but one problem I have with the whole dancing thing is... I can't really dance. It's not that I don't like the music, and it's not that I don't have rhythm... I just tend to look like a fool when I try to dance. :) Girls *can't* look bad when they're dancing... I think it's a federal law or something... it's just physically impossible for them to look bad when they dance. But I know a lot of guys (myself included) look like idiots when they try to dance. If you want a mental image... picture a bug... sprayed with Raid or Black Flag... dying slowly. You've all seen 'em twitch... :) Of course, the logical thing to do is, take some dance lessons... I'm working on that... but I've spent my whole life as a dance-challenged individual, so I think that could be part of the reason that the good ones never ask you to dance. :) Nice does not mean "can dance." :) Kevin - ---------- Kevin Pease kbpease@boston.crosswinds.net (ICQ UIN: 3106063) (AOL Instant Messenger: kbpease) http://www.crosswinds.net/boston/~kbpease "Sometimes I sing like my life is at stake, 'cause you're only as loud as the noises you make..." ---(Ani DiFranco)--- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:27:16 -0400 From: "Kevin Pease" Subject: Re: ET: Re: thee question >> Scott - E Sykes writes: >He does several things in a couple months to make him look like a sweet >guy yet what about the rest of us? I work full time and spend 30 hours a >week at Habitat for Humanity, help the homeless daily, give support to >senior citizens daily, donate a lot of money through out the year, give >blood every 9 weeks, etc... Well, Scott, I'd tend to think that these things should be done because you *want* to do them because you're a nice guy, not as a way of saying, "Look at me, ladies. I'm all sensitive and crap. Take a number!" If the only reason you do them is so you can "look like a sweet guy", then in my opinion, you're doing them for the wrong reason... if you do them because you want to do them, then great... but if you're doing them to "prove" something to other people, then you're really doing the same thing you're saying Leonardo does. They should be the result of being a nice guy, not a means to show the world you're a nice guy. Kevin - ---------- Kevin Pease kbpease@boston.crosswinds.net (ICQ UIN: 3106063) (AOL Instant Messenger: kbpease) http://www.crosswinds.net/boston/~kbpease "Sometimes I sing like my life is at stake, 'cause you're only as loud as the noises you make..." ---(Ani DiFranco)--- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:35:22 -0700 From: moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Charlie, Cob & the GoA) Subject: ET: more on the love thing Angels, I duno, I just always thought....Well my parents love each other. They had lots of bfs and gfs before each other, but I can tell they genuinely love each other--they have gone through traumas and illness, deaths, gritty times, all of it, and they're still together. I just always thought that was the kind of love you're supposed to find, that maybe it starts out with the passionate stuff and it gets into this more meaningful kind of love. But how do you know?! Sam the ? angel moonsong@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:35:17 -0700 From: moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Charlie, Cob & the GoA) Subject: Re: ET: abuse topic At 1:47 AM 9/8/1998, Scott - E Sykes wrote: >A women has the power to say no! If i can do it, you can do it! Get >help is really all it takes, the man isnt gonna be there 24-7, call the >police, call a friend, call the FBI. When power is put in your hands, >the world is yours. If my life was ever threatened (and it has), i know >my back is taken care of! And whatever happened to self defense? It a >guy pushes a lady against the wall, she can do 1 move and he'll be out >for hours. You'd be surprised what the body is capable of! > Just like the ad says, "Don't let it happen to you!" > >(note to everyone) if you ever have any problem like this, tell me! Help >will find you! Things are a lot different for men. I know everyone's gonna jump on me and say, "Sam, how sexist!" But centuries of sexism has been bred into this culture, and from those centuries we've resulted in the way we have. This culture is a result of long-formed attitudes about men and women, and I think those strongly affect to a great extent the ways in which we think about ourselves. It's easy for you, as a guy, to say, "yeah, I was in danger, but I kicked his butt." However when your history includes being the passive sex, things are NEVER easy. And easy solutions are quite insulting actually. I don't think that anyone has any right to judge a battered woman. You don't know the emotional states involved. Self defense is a great idea, but other things are often involved with these women here. I mean, if they have kids, they often don't want to fight in front of the wide-eyed innocent little two year old. Men are, BY NATURE, stronger than women, and fighting back, especially in a panic that's not thought through (as if there's time to think that through) can lead to being seriously harmed yourself. I'm sure self-defense would come in great handy, but look at things in the long run. With the emotional issues involved and things at stake, these women feel trapped, and they are, at least from their standpoint. Unless they get out--that involves A LOT--they have to keep living with this guy, being caught off guard when he comes home drunk, and being lulled back into believing he loves her. I believe that "just say no" bullshit is exactly that--bullshit--and so is "don't let it happen to you." Precautions and taking self-defense is a very good idea but seriously, how many girls take karate because they think they'll marry an abuser? I agree that abused women SHOULD call friends, police, FBI, but it's the emotional ties and the threats that he will find her that keep her sared. We really have no place to say what they should and shouldn't do until we are in exactly their position. And I don't mean having a knife held to you in some allyway in East LA, but being involved in a long-term, long-standing abusive relationship, with a kid, responsibilities, delt the smaller hand and feeling trapped. Sam the ? angel moonsong@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:34:29 -0500 From: sesykes@juno.com (Scott - E Sykes) Subject: Re: ET: Re: thee question On Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:27:16 -0400 "Kevin Pease" writes: >>> Scott - E Sykes writes: >>He does several things in a couple months to make him look like a >sweet >>guy yet what about the rest of us? I work full time and spend 30 >hours a >>week at Habitat for Humanity, help the homeless daily, give support >to >>senior citizens daily, donate a lot of money through out the year, >give >>blood every 9 weeks, etc... > > Well, Scott, I'd tend to think that these things should be done >because >you *want* to do them because you're a nice guy, not as a way of >saying, >"Look at me, ladies. I'm all sensitive and crap. Take a number!" If >the >only reason you do them is so you can "look like a sweet guy", then in >my >opinion, you're doing them for the wrong reason... if you do them >because >you want to do them, then great... but if you're doing them to "prove" >something to other people, then you're really doing the same thing >you're >saying Leonardo does. They should be the result of being a nice guy, >not a >means to show the world you're a nice guy. > > Kevin > >---------- >Kevin Pease kbpease@boston.crosswinds.net >(ICQ UIN: 3106063) (AOL Instant Messenger: kbpease) > http://www.crosswinds.net/boston/~kbpease >"Sometimes I sing like my life is at stake, > 'cause you're only as loud as the noises you make..." > ---(Ani DiFranco)--- > > I can't speak for Leo or anyone but i do know this. Publicity is the way to make a star. I a friend which will remain unnamed. His publicist told him that he needs to make these appearances to make his career soar. He also said that it doesn't matter if you're here to help, all that matters is that you get seen! I know for fact that acouple celebs are so hard up on them selves that they wouldn't even give their parents an autograph. Again, i can't speak for Leo or anyone else but i want people to know that there are a lot of stars out there that are in it for fame and fortune! They could care less about the fans! Sorry if i pissed anyone off but this is true! ** Scott S.** -Big Sexy Angel "MISPLACED HATE MAKES DISGRACED RACES!" -Tupac Shakur R.I.P _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:49:51 -0700 From: moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Charlie, Cob & the GoA) Subject: ET: Leo Stuff >>>On the outside, it does seem that way! BUT, if you have an inside scoop on these things, you would know that his publicist put him up to it and he got $13,000 for that little experiance. I don't mean to be rude or anything but, hollywood is a corrupt society with a lot of members. He does several things in acouple months to make him look like a sweet guy yet what about the rest of us? I work full time and spend 30 hours a week at Habitat for Humanity, help the homeless daily, give support to senior citizens daily, donate a lot of money through out the year, give blood every 9 weeks, etc...<<< Leo's just in the spotlight is all, Scott. He's one of those "lucky" unlucky people who went for something, lucked out and got big. I think he's an okay actor, he's pretty cute, and I think he has his faults like anyone else. He's probably a decent enough human being, it's just that the kinks in Hollywood stars get exaggerated a lot more than anyone else. I think the rest of us are pretty lucky. Leo's loved by millions of girls, sure, but they don't really know him, they don't really love his soul, and how much of his spirit is really left? I think Hollywood wears down a lot. Plus, they offer big bucks, as you pointed out, to do things. It's shallow to take it, but when you get swept into that, who wouldn't take it except a very moral person who has managed to keep all their ethics (and who can be called truly ethical when they just made 50 million on a movie)? It gets messy when you get deep into the pudding of Hollywood. :) As for you, I'm sure you could bust your butt and shoot right up there in Hollywood. If you really want the fame then you could do it. But I don't think that's what you want. You want the recognition though. But Scott, unless you're in the hell spotlight of the world, you aren't going to have 4,000 eyes turned to you and blowing kisses when you help a handicapped girl down the sidewalk. The entire world won't know. You just have to find your own nitch of people who are your friends, and those are the ones who are gonna notice and care. You should do kind things for yourself, not to be praised, I think that's what is truly admarible. I have learned that ya don't just say, "I made you dinner, so now you have to be nice." People will be much more grateful if ya don't turn vain. I'm not speaking about you here, don't mean to point fingers. Just, if you want everyone in the world to say you're a sweet angelic guy, you have to get in the public's face. Otherwise you'll just be noticed by the people around you, by the rest of us. And really, that makes a much bigger contribution and difference in the world than walking down a runway with your grandma. Kevin wrote: >>> Okay... I knew I'd probably get jumped for using Leo as an example. Should've stuck with Brad Pitt. :) Anyway, I'm not saying that Leo *isn't* a nice guy, he could very well be, for all I know. However, I would tend to be a little wary of buying into the star's image... maybe I'm just cynical, but those things he did could very easily have been done so he could get some good press. I'd like to think he did it because he wanted to, but... I've heard other things about Leo that lend credence to the idea that he's a temperamental, egocentric Hollywood type... Temper tantrums about not winning various awards foremost among them. Anyway, he could be a real cool guy, and that wasn't my original point... the point was, "someone like I described" will often win out over the "nice guy" because of the excitement and glamour factor... Leo was picked because he happens to be hot property these days, not because I think he's any worse or any better than the rest of the movie stars these days.<<< Yup. We're all human, just some of us get blown into seeming to be bigger than life, and that's when it gets out of hand. They disappoint people for being who they are and now the glossy star-struck teen in the movie. Sam the ? angel moonsong@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ End of eda-thoughts-digest V1 #179 **********************************