From: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org (eda-thoughts-digest) To: eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Subject: eda-thoughts-digest V1 #127 Reply-To: eda-thoughts@smoe.org Sender: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk eda-thoughts-digest Wednesday, August 19 1998 Volume 01 : Number 127 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: ET: Re: Everything that is me ["Seth D. Fulmer" Subject: Re: ET: Re: Everything that is me I had originally thought to take this offline and then realized "why should I?" :) At 12:41 AM 8/19/98 -0400, you wrote: >workmanship I'm doing, because *I* know it's there. This is something I >learned from my dad when I used to help him doing stuff around the house - >if you're going to do the job, you do it right. I'd ask him, "Why not just >cut this corner? Nobody's ever going to see it?" His response - "Because >I'll know it's there." It seemed strange, and almost ass-backwards, at the I would never "cut a corner" but not because somebody might see it. I wouldn't cut it because 1.) it could hurt someone(and not just in construction but in a lot of fields) and 2.) the building would be imperfect. I value the quality of the work I do, but my basic point is that if it's not doing you any pleasure and nobody else notices it, then why do it? > I don't think you do look at yourself the way they see you. Maybe you Correction: I see myself as I would look at "me"(from another person's standpoint)...I evaluate myself using the same rules and guidelines I evaluate others. If I hate someone for something, it would be stupid for me to like myself despite the fact that I have the same trait. > How do you know they have a better life than you? Because they have They have a better life in that if I were in their situation, I'd be happier than I am now. I mean...I could go into movies to find an example(it would be too easy) but I'll go into my own life. My cousin Tammy has her PhD in Pharmacology. All of her loans are paid off and she now has a husband and two children. She's working on her Post Doctorate. I would love to be in her situation. Although I might not because the only money she receives is from grants and I'm into computers, not pharmacology which would make me choose against it...but I hope you see what I'm trying to say. > This is what I don't get. Why do your abilities have to be noticeable >to other people? And, really, for that matter... writing good poetry & good >compositions are very noticeable skills - ever hear the name Shakespeare? >Neruda (I'm sure everybody here has heard that name... (thanks, Jamie!) :)? >Dickinson? Byron? Plath? Angelou? They're all pretty well-known (and >very noticed), and how did they get there? Writing poetry, and >compositions. If world-wide & lasting fame isn't "noticeable" enough for Yeah, but for that I'd have to publish them on more than just webpages. People don't see my webpage and I don't care enough to tell someone about it. It's stupid to tell someone to go see something just to have them notice it. They should notice it from the start. It really flatters me sometimes when someone on ICQ adds me and says they saw my name and was curious enough to add me, and talk to me :) >you, I don't know what is. :) Copying others? Ever turn on Saturday Night >Live and watch some of their skits? Looks to me like people (Phil Hartman? >Dana Carvey? There's two...) have been doing pretty good jobs of copying >people's voices & mannerisms, and getting pretty well known as a result. :) >I think you're trying too hard to convince me you're worthless here... not copying as in making fun but copying their personalities into my everyday personality. There's a girl/brother from my fraternity on this IRC channel for the brothers..and she always says "coolio"...I've implemented that into my vocabulary in that it's an everyday expression...Admittedly I like it but other people have expressed that it's annoying, so to those people I change the word I use and for the others I use coolio. Also, I despise children. There have been people that have tried to get me to play with children. If I like someone, I see someone who's good with children, I see why that is and copy it into my own personality so I can replicate it in real life. >>Primarily, when I see their imperfections, I can attack the person >>right there. If the person isn't having a good relationship with their >>parents, that would be an imperfection in their lives and it would also be >>a good place to attack them. > > Again, how so? If I know what my good points are, it's also a safe bet >that I know my limitations and capabilities.... knowing yourself well will >never hurt you... and if you know your own good points, then you will be >more confident about everything you go into, because you know what you can >accomplish in any given situation. You can also arrange to play to your >good points (Engineer's Principle #1: Coincidentally, the correct solution >for any problem is also the solution you happen to know best. :), which >will certainly help. Self-awareness is *never* a bad thing. I know my good points and my bad points..however my good points aren't anything spectacular. There are a LOT of other people that have better points than my "good points". My terms of good and better are probably based on my values...but like I'm good at poetry...If someone else tries to tell me they're better than me at poetry, they're looking for a fight(arguement). They might get it. If it were computer programming, ok, so you have my other skill..but there are a lot of other people better than me on that. Until college, I spent most of my time attacking people at their weak points to get better at programming. Now, in college, who would have thought I'd be in a service fraternity helping people...but still...I'm getting off the topic. But if you say that you're a better french speaker than I am, yeah I can speak french but I'd say "Yeah, so? I could probably beat you but I don't really care enough to try". Take care and Have a Great Day!! :) Seth Fulmer mailto:usfulmer@mcs.drexel.edu mailto:st96t879@post.drexel.edu mailto:kaosking@voicenet.com webpages: http://www.voicenet.com/~kaosking Cool Quotes and stuff :) "So don't tell me why he's never been good to you So don't tell me why he's never been there for you Don't you know that why is simply not good enough Oh...So, just let me try and I will be good to you Just let me try and I will be there for you I'll show you why is so much more than good enough" - "Good enough", Sarah McLachlan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 11:07:36 -0400 From: "Kevin Pease" Subject: Re: ET: Re: Everything that is me >> Seth D. Fulmer writes: >I would never "cut a corner" but not because somebody might see it. I >wouldn't cut it because 1.) it could hurt someone(and not just in >construction but in a lot of fields) and 2.) the building would be >imperfect. Well, I wasn't talking stuff like, "Why bother putting in that foundation support, dad? I mean, the building's going to fall over sooner or later, anyway." I was talking more like, "Why worry about painting the underside of that railing," or something like that, we're not talking "people will die" if it doesn't get done. :) >I value the quality of the work I do, but my basic point is >that if it's not doing you any pleasure and nobody else notices it, then >why do it? You do it because YOU will know it's been done, and it's been done right. You do it because it's the "proper" way to do things. It shouldn't matter that other people won't notice it, it should matter only that you noticed it, and did what was "right & proper". >Correction: I see myself as I would look at "me"(from another person's >standpoint)...I evaluate myself using the same rules and guidelines I >evaluate others. If I hate someone for something, it would be stupid for >me to like myself despite the fact that I have the same trait. ?? You're still assuming an awful lot about other people and how they "would look" at you. When you come right down to it, one bad quality isn't a show-stopper, either, and that's what I'm having so much difficulty understanding about what you're saying. I don't like a lot of things about myself, but that doesn't mean I think it's stupid to be happy with my accomplishments, and with where I am at this point in life. Yes, I want to better myself... I'd like to lose another ten pounds, I'd like to get my Master's degree within the next couple years, I'd like to get out of the computer industry within a few years, etc, etc. But that doesn't mean I can't look at myself, and say, "Hey, you're not doing too bad, so far." If you spend all your time berating yourself for your bad qualities, where do you find the time to develop your good qualities? >They have a better life in that if I were in their situation, I'd be >happier than I am now. And again, I maintain that you cannot possibly know that. >I mean...I could go into movies to find an >example(it would be too easy) but I'll go into my own life. Please don't go into movies for examples - they're fake, glamorized versions of the lives that a very small portion of people have ever even dreamed about living. I'd actually be a little upset if my life was nothing but an hour and a half sound bite with special effects. >My cousin >Tammy has her Ph.D. in Pharmacology. All of her loans are paid off and she >now has a husband and two children. She's working on her Post Doctorate. >I would love to be in her situation. Although I might not because the only >money she receives is from grants and I'm into computers, not pharmacology >which would make me choose against it...but I hope you see what I'm trying >to say. No, I don't see what you're trying to say. You say "She has a great situation, a great life." And then you go on to say that you wouldn't want to have a PhD in Pharmacology, and you'd rather not rely on money strictly from grants, and below you talk about despising children, and I really doubt you'd like having a husband. :) If that life is SO MUCH better than your life, how come just about everything with it that you describe "isn't right?" Yeah, I'd like to not have almost $65,000 worth of educational loans hanging over my head, and I'd love to be done with all my schooling, and I'd love to have a spouse & a couple kids... but I don't - I've got a BS in Biotechnology, enough loans to choke a herd of horses, I don't even have a girlfriend right now, and I sure as hell don't have a couple kids. That doesn't mean my life is crap, I'm actually pretty happy right now - I've got a decent job, I've got good friends, a car that runs (most of the time! :), and a decent place to live. I have more goals to fulfill, but I'm doing all right. At some point "good enough for now" has to be good enough, or you're always going to be dissatisfied with what you have. >Yeah, but for that I'd have to publish them on more than just webpages. >People don't see my webpage and I don't care enough to tell someone about >it. It's stupid to tell someone to go see something just to have them >notice it. They should notice it from the start. It really flatters me >sometimes when someone on ICQ adds me and says they saw my name and was >curious enough to add me, and talk to me :) If you want people to notice them, send some out to various magazines and stuff, and see if you can get them published. If you're so busy "not caring enough" to tell people about it, why on earth would you expect them to notice it? This is the same attitude that one of my friends takes when he's trying to meet a girl... he suddenly becomes "ultra-laid-back guy"... and somehow, the fact that he absolutely never says anything to her is supposed to give her the idea that, "HEY! That guy really thinks I'm good looking. I should talk to him." You aren't going to be handed too many breaks in this life, you have to make a lot of them for yourself. How is somebody supposed to know you even write poetry if you just publish them on the web, anyway? I don't carry around a laptop with me (I think a lot of people are like this, too) so I have instant web access to check and see if they have a web page, and if maybe there's something interesting on that page. You have to share part of yourself if you expect people to notice it and say anything about it. >I know my good points and my bad points..however my good points aren't >anything spectacular. There are a LOT of other people that have better >points than my "good points". You're applying a purely subjective qualification here. How can you compare somebody's skill at, say, playing soccer, with your skill at writing poetry? It's apples-to-oranges, through and through. It sounds to me like you're looking at the "stuff" other people have, and desperately want that stuff, because what you have isn't enough for you. But you know what? 99% of those other people probably look around and say, "Gee, why can't I have that guy's skill at this, and that girl's skill at this? It's just not fair." You have skills and abilities that you can and should be proud of, and spending all your time wishing you had other people's "stuff" is just a waste of time. >But if you say that you're a better >French speaker than I am, yeah I can speak French but I'd say "Yeah, so? I >could probably beat you but I don't really care enough to try". Life isn't a pissing contest... if you worry about your own thing, and let everybody else worry about their own things, you'd be a lot happier. Nobody's asking you to make them perfect, nobody's asking you to prove you're perfect... learn to be happy with the things you've got, and live your own life without worrying about whether people are better than you at this, or that, or the other thing, it's just not worth the time and effort it takes. Kevin - ---------- Kevin Pease kbpease@boston.crosswinds.net (ICQ UIN: 3106063) (AOL Instant Messenger: kbpease) http://www.crosswinds.net/boston/~kbpease "I feel like a quote out of context, withholding the rest, So I can be for you what you want to see; I got the gestures, sounds, I got the timing down, It's uncanny, yeah you'd think it was me; Do you think I should take a class to lose my southern accent? Did I make me up, or make a face 'til it stuck? I do the best imitation of myself..." -----(Ben Folds Five)----- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 12:19:22 -0700 From: jewel16f@juno.com (Heidi J Andrus) Subject: ET: Re: Everything that is me Dear angulz, Guys and Gals!!! This is all very interesting and obviously everyone has different opinions about these things. Everyone argues and fusses. I'm sorry but everyone is different. I just think that why are we trying to change each other's minds about what we feel and believe. Why are we trying to argue so much? Seth has his opinions and feelings and veiws just like Sam and Kevin. We are all here for a purpose. How we look will not stop us from accomlishing that purpose that God or the supreme being put us here to accomlish. I don't know. I know I'm inperfect yet i have had two boyfriends in the past 2 weeks where as I thought I would never have one. I havea ton of fabulous friends when I thought the world didn't want me to have any. The only way that I know I got all of this is because I started excepting me for me and looking at myself and saying sure you may be fat but you're still beautiful. Then other people started seeing that I loved me for me and then they looked at my personality and saw that I'm beautiful inside and what's on the outside is comfortable with me so it became that way with them. I don't really know what I'm trying to say but all I know is that can we please just kinda calm it for a few? Please? Ok well must run...things to do :o) Thanks for listening....sorry if I made anyone mad. Laughs & Smiles :o) Heidi *The Freckel Angel* AOL Instant Message: Jewel15f _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 12:48:38 -0700 From: jewel16f@juno.com (Heidi J Andrus) Subject: ET: All of this striving for perfection is driving me crazy. Ok everyone, Alright we are put here on this earth the way we are. Yes we can change weight and sometimes change the way we look minorly without like plastic surgery or something. Well ok so I think we should be content with the way we are. I am and life is handing me the best of the best at the moment. I know we all have our highs and lows but I have come to realize when I'm at a high it's usually because I decided to feel good about myself and when I'm at a low I was down on myself and depressed. There IS someone for everyone. I've found that out myself cause I thought I was gonna go through high school without my first kiss. That would have been fine but I got my first kiss almost two weeks ago and it might have not been the best, but it happened because my contentment of myself shown through and others realized it. I may wear makeup to look prettier because I'm fat and I may dry my hair to make it not so wavy then put hot rollers in it to make my layers appear and look nice, but does that make me fake? No. I don't think it does at all. I am me and that's a part of what I do to make me feel good about me. I have been told my hair is the most beautiful hair and that my eyes are beautiful because I just enhance the things that are good about me because my body is everything less than perfect. I don't think it makes you fake or showy.....it has helped my self asteem and the way people look at me and the way I act. I had my first job this summer at 15. With my extra money I went to one of those expensive department store makeup counters......namely Clinique. I sat and felt beautiful. I don't at all look cakey or made up....I look normal. I spent more than to much on it, but it makes me happy. I will never buy another thing from there again I'll probably just buy KMart stuff but that one time thing made me feel great. I guess it's hard to explain but all I know is that if all you have is beautiful hair and a beautiful face I don't see anything wrong with enhancing it so people may notice the smile or the bounce of the hair.. you know what I'm trying to say? I'm sorry it's long and drawn out and probably makes no sense what-so-ever so I'll stop now. I just wish we could all except each other the way we are. Wouldn't it be just great if the only thing we could see was personality? We could be like puddles or water and then just have our personality's to show us apart but then we'd get into which one's of us were more polluted and petty little things like that. Oh well I just drew it out more sorry. Must go. I hope I didn't offend or make someone mad cause I really don't want to be in the middle of this! Smiles :o) Heidi *The Freckel Angel* E-mail at: Jewel16f@Juno.com also at: Jewel15f@aol.com AOL Instant Message: Jewel15f Web sites: http://www.vaio.net/spte.dll/web/JewelRocks http://www.angelfire.com/tn/JewelRocks/index.html _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ End of eda-thoughts-digest V1 #127 **********************************