From: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org (eda-thoughts-digest) To: eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Subject: eda-thoughts-digest V2 #373 Reply-To: eda-thoughts@smoe.org Sender: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk eda-thoughts-digest Thursday, December 30 1999 Volume 02 : Number 373 * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * eda-thoughts-digest-request@smoe.org with ONLY * the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: eda-thoughts-digest V2 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. Today's Subjects: ----------------- ET: good and evil ["Robert A. Peate" ] Re: ET: good and evil [Annie ] ET: ~10ks for james/more fodder for thievery~ ;) [shivergirl ] Re: ET: good and evil ["Dr. RomeAntic" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 15:20:56 -0500 From: "Robert A. Peate" Subject: ET: good and evil dear friends, i think that these quotations may be of relevance to all our lives, and so i share them: "there are a lot of people who want to say that god was teaching us a lesson: evil is there so that we can learn by struggling against it. i find it kind of barbaric to envision a god who needs to slaughter a million babies [through hitler] in order to perhaps improve our character. i'm irritated by people who try to find some happy-ever-after improving lesson from this." - --ronald rosenbaum, author of *explaining hitler* "how much happier a world it would be if one did not have to mount crusades against racism, segregation, a holocaust, the extermination of 'inferior peoples'. we don't need evil. we'd do fine without hitler, stalin, pol pot. think of the amount of money and energy used in world war ii; if only they could have been used in constructive ways. good doesn't need evil. we'd be just as well rid of it." - --robert dallek, presidential historian your's, robert a. peate ***** the pain of war cannot exceed the woe of aftermath. ~r. plant ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:09:20 -0500 From: Annie Subject: Re: ET: good and evil >dear friends, > > > i think that these quotations may be of relevance to all our lives, and >so i share them: I thank you for sharing a different viewpoint on such a serious topic. May I now share mine? You are, of course, welcome to read no further if you like. > > > "there are a lot of people who want to say that god was teaching us a >lesson: evil is there so that we can learn by struggling against it. i find >it kind of barbaric to envision a god who needs to slaughter a million >babies [through hitler] in order to perhaps improve our character. i'm >irritated by people who try to find some happy-ever-after improving lesson >from this." > >--ronald rosenbaum, > author of *explaining hitler* This can be summed up in one word: bitterness. God did not instruct nor force Hitler to do this. Nor did God sit back and allow it. I wonder how many angels wept for the poor souls lost in this tragedy. I believe that mankind chooses his/her own path. God makes us strong by giving us our freedom. Certainly, he could have stopped it. But like a controlling father (which he is not), the child would have been raised to expect this and count on some higher being rather than understanding the worth and power within one's self. Certainly believing in this is better than letting bitterness consume. > > "how much happier a world it would be if one did not have to mount >crusades against racism, segregation, a holocaust, the extermination of >'inferior peoples'. we don't need evil. we'd do fine without hitler, >stalin, pol pot. think of the amount of money and energy used in world war >ii; if only they could have been used in constructive ways. good doesn't >need evil. we'd be just as well rid of it." > >--robert dallek, > presidential historian I agree...until the statement that we don't need evil. It is necessary if we are to comprehend gratitude, joy, and peace. There is no light without darkness, no good without evil. How could we ever know how lucky we are when we have peace if we have never experienced turmoil? It is easier to say that life would be peachy-keen and all roses without any trials. But that would not be life at all. That is what the afterlife is for. I think I've said my peace now. No intentions to offend! - -Annie (Wingless Angel) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:46:28 -0500 From: shivergirl Subject: ET: ~10ks for james/more fodder for thievery~ ;) * hairless/perfect/why does there/always have to be/less of me/to be pretty/slim/svelte/just emotional welts/shaver scrapes/is that what it takes/naked lips/natural eyes/stretch-marked thighs/free of polish/can we abolish/hairspray/hair gel/skanky sluttish clothes/the mass appeal/for men/when can we mean/more to ourselves/be more than just/aesthetic sex slaves/free * if i stop plucking my eyebrows can i start probing my motives more? if i stop fretting over the perfect shade of lipstick can i pay more attention to brushing my teeth? if i cease purchasing five wardrobes worth of clothes can i not be afraid of what i look like with nothing on? * never cared for thongs or bangs or angora, anyways what about facial exercises, nightly or writing a letter to your future self once a hundred years to find when you lose fear and devour slices of peace after wandering the world like a spiritual nomad only to go home at the end of a very long life * tasks line up before me like mountains of bother i can't be bothered trying to describe them any further the thought of attempt at failure is only tiring to me and how can i be breaking when i haven't even taken a break from doing nothing? * why does he keep resurfacing in my needy dreams like we've been granted a second chance at something god only intended for a temporary learning curve in the big scheme of things? * she talks to you; i talk to her; but i don't talk to you; i'm not exactly given the opportunity to; and would i want it; probably not; yet i still feel somehow cheated; the fact that you're still alive; that you could be travelling; or finishing school; like me; but not quite; no, not the same; caveman from long ago; you never pulled my hair; but back i go; like i haven't progressed at all; in 2000 years; like i haven't found other huggers; like i didn't realize first love isn't synonymous with last love; at least for me; but now i know; how it feels to be you; in the beginning * all these little girls i love but then these puny boys come along frolicking with fascist masculinity stealing their sweet mystique without even asking it is given freely does he like me does he notice me he makes me happy i need him to complete me splintering the self into an unattainable dream delusion of love in romance novels my sister says that's what it is she should know too she bought this cap for this guy who curled she shoulda known by that alone methinks and now she's out at the dark meat market wearing too-red lipstick when she doesn't even wear lipstick and this older cocky computer dickhead is trying to pick her up drag her down take her out make out in his sexy atmospheric car * oh can i have some of that arrogance of age minus brains that seemingly-natural by-product of a penis plus youth for whenever a deliberate leer or sexist sneer finds its way into my sphere of equality i wish these girls could see their own identity is not comprised of y-chromosome duality entirely or only if at all it's just a small star in a galaxy of double x-chromosome genes wonderful girls with normal, unenhanced breasts breakouts obsessions with thinness and all the usual rest like eating too much to be truly anorexic on the outside anyway just spiritually bullimic swallowing little boys whole penis envy and all warts and chest hair and male confidence only to regurgitate the messy remains in a unisex toilet called breaking up * feeling nauseous all the while leading up to it the pressure to get a boyfriend since grade four and valentine's day cards distributed like girlish affections randomly but oh-so-painfully when you only get one or two in return it seems only the geeks and rejects respect your mind becasue it's certainly not your looks the pretty-faerie theived them for everyone but you and all you're left with is a shining brain no one can even see anyways and you won't provide pictures because that requires people actually perusing your appearance in order to get there inside the facade of the spirit * catherine was my great one and she didn't even have to fuck a horse to be one of my queens she kept those plants that bite she drew little mandala symbols in turquoise pencil crayons all over her bedroom walls buying second-hand clothes only loving brit bands like blur i wanted so much to be like her then she cut her hair and got sporty glasses to make herself less pretty to the masses to be taken seriously and still she met a boy while buying a goldfish they bonded in the pet store it seems nowhere is safe but he forgot to feed her nevermind the fish and her best friend felt neglected and got an opposite-sex new bosom friend in the end she's still mended to him but catherine's all by herself again happily ever after ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 15:48:41 -0800 From: "C. C. & S." Subject: ET: the barrette in the bathroom or, whatever. hahaha you wonder, don't you? that's gona be on its way, but for now yall can just IMAGINE what i mean!!! HAHAHA! um, so, anyway. > I hope to god I know what you mean, because if it's not what I think you > mean, you're going to be mighty disappointed to hear I don't eat from that > side of the salad bar. ;) reeeeally? oh, now come on! we all know the truth kev > in Boston, too...), and I was turned down cold, and hard. :) yeah, cold and hard, it'll be a sad night for sure :) *evil little grin* > uses that particular song would be particularly effective... :). Nothing > says lovin' like creating a little mass hysteria. :) yes when you think about it....MASS HYSTERIA will be pretty funny, won't it? ...provided i don't die in the outcome, that is... > Just a little note to wish you all a happy new year, and well hell of a > party! And if Y2K is a farcem, we might speak again next year!!! oh we'll talk again jeremy (jeremy. i have to say it. i love that name...of course that could come from the fact that i have this, thing, for jeremy jordan). next year! *SCREAMS* no, really, haha, no biggy... that's only in 2 days. i'm 16 in 6 days! i think. can i do the math, yeah :) > and hello's to all the angels... seth, write me? :) nai doncha just love calling people angels? yeah... > and so i'm left waiting > spreading traces of verse , > left sugarey on the corner of my mouth, > thin, till fresh sweet flow comes. > yummm i love it naomi. james... ok i think i won't bore everyone by REPLYING to all your "comments" here so i'll REPLY seperately. yeah. > great, thanx :-) dont work yourself too hard on that learning stuff, it > hurts it does, unless it's something you like...i mean, you get something out of it. there's a lot of learning i hate (haha, yeeeah), especially as a girl with very little patience - but, you know those rollercoasters you just have got to ride, it's such a rush? some learning's like that, especially music for this here chicklet :) > well that's like at best 6th place. i'm still hurt. lol i didn't see what kevin said about girls. are we AFTER guys on the sleep/food/girlfriend list? i'm even MORE hurt :) > - --onward to eda-land... write it out and it sounds damn cool, but that way it's every day angel(s) land, or edt-land would be onward to every day thoughts land now that's cool. > i'm not really patronizing or > condescending, i Just seem like it b)the lack of sleep and food not patronizing or condescending? where on earth did you get THAT idea? :-P > stay up all night, face east from an hour before till an hour after sunrise. > colorful in winter :) (farther north better) all the crazy fun you can do is great as long as you don't end up dying. eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we will die. um, wait, we WON'T die, right? no. not tomorrow, anyway. not most of us, at least :) and no that is not from star trek originally! know your shakespeare, ye fools! > how did this get so long? and I haven't even put poetry into it! ..well, > sam always has those 10K posts, why cant I? yours was pretty long ya know > Good poets borrow / great poets steal so steal away :) i bet if you took all yer fav lines, you'd have a a) really great poem or a b) really overly done poem.... > (yeah uhm i'm not writing well, that's the start) > starting over- did you write all these AS you wrote this letter? > it's an exciting thing; > forgetting value and worth, > and finding myself lost in you all over again cool line > baby come back to me! whoah! who what where? it's like you stood up in a movie theater and screamed it *looks around wildly* > > stay for a while, > parked inside for once, hey hey hey, let's get detailed shall we :) nice imagery james > > can we melt our souls together, > underneath the heat and push > of our hearts coming in contact.. push? > then you look outside > and fade into the sunrise > on a morning so cold > you can taste the air > and cant wait to breathe again- that's beautiful > my head is pouding but it aint no matter ain't, usually ain't bugs me but sometimes it's ok, when used sparingly.. > comments people. i'm going to start actually revising these things.. :-) you mean, unlike the rest of us, who just think "REVISE? but i'm such an amazing poet that it needs no changing!"? i'm bad at harsh criticizing so i'm afraid that's all for now samara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 00:58:24 +0100 From: "Dr. RomeAntic" Subject: Re: ET: good and evil Annie wrote: > This can be summed up in one word: bitterness. God did not instruct > nor force Hitler to do this. Nor did God sit back and allow it. I wonder > how many angels wept for the poor souls lost in this tragedy. I believe > that mankind chooses his/her own path. God makes us strong by giving us our > freedom. Certainly, he could have stopped it. But like a controlling > father (which he is not), the child would have been raised to expect this > and count on some higher being rather than understanding the worth and power > within one's self. Certainly believing in this is better than letting > bitterness consume. My dear Annie... I wish I could share your view... but I just can't help but think... all people weren't always free... and all people still aren't free. So what is with them... don't they count? This has been going on forever... we all don't have equal rights... sure... through generations in some places things are improving... but that's just fine for the generations that are coming... what about those who had nothing out of life but whips, slave work and stale bread and water every single day of their lives. Now you may say they were repaid in the afterlife or something... but I'd rather enjoy life around here as much as I can first (assuming there is a life after this one) as I believe I have just as much right to it than any other person born into this world! And me and you may be fortunate that our souls drifted into bodies where they did... so we can enjoy our certain level of freedom and have a decent amount of control over our lives... but it scares me to death to think I was born into a totally different world! > I agree...until the statement that we don't need evil. It is necessary if > we are to comprehend gratitude, joy, and peace. There is no light without > darkness, no good without evil. How could we ever know how lucky we are > when we have peace if we have never experienced turmoil? It is easier to > say that life would be peachy-keen and all roses without any trials. But > that would not be life at all. That is what the afterlife is for. And this... this just freaks me out! Trials are one thing...evil is an extreme that I'd say is totally unnecessary. I agree that we should be aware of pain... but the natures way of life brings you enough of pain, sorrow, bitterness etc. to completely make you appreciate and understand gratitude, joy and peace. If we need evil to comprehend peace, well then this is just a screwed up place we're living in (not that it doesn't seem that way many a time). If you need to see people dying on the other side of the planet on your TV just to feel good about the peace you live in, then the question comes up... how many people feel like that... do those who cause all these horror feel like that... it would explain a lot... but it would make this world even scarier than it is to me!!! Or this isn't exactly experiencing turmoil for you... should one be raped or a member o their family be murdered so they can experience, understand and appreciate peace after it's over! Evil will always be present... I guess because human beings tend to mulfunction (some just get a surge once, few times... and some are constatly that way). But without evil this world would be an experience much more enjoyable from how it is now! My life would be much better if I never had to deal with evil... be exposed to it from the world or within me... as I confess right here that evil thoughts cross my mind and it is a constant battle to fight it off... I'd like to believe, and don't really have any proof against it, that I've been successful, but unfortunately lots of people don't have the same will and strenght to, or just don't want to, fight it off!!! And that's what we're exposed to every day... and why wouldn't I and all of us be better of without it!!! I could still love just as much... probably more! > I think I've said my peace now. No intentions to offend! > > -Annie > > (Wingless Angel) Those who are offended by other people's opinions shouldn't have the right to have one themselves... and those who disagree with a given opinion should voice their own or never complain about it again!! - -- Have fun and stay beautiful Dr. RomeAntic, an angel with the worst stroke of luck and a flash of silver lining "Slow motion see me let go...." 3Eb Catch Dr. RomeAntic's outdated cyber image @ http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/2009 ------------------------------ End of eda-thoughts-digest V2 #373 **********************************