From: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org (eda-thoughts-digest) To: eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Subject: eda-thoughts-digest V2 #116 Reply-To: eda-thoughts@smoe.org Sender: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk eda-thoughts-digest Friday, April 23 1999 Volume 02 : Number 116 * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * eda-thoughts-digest-request@smoe.org with ONLY * the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: eda-thoughts-digest V2 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: ET: Outraged angel about news man ["Erin Benoit" ] Re: ET: Outraged angel about news man ["Erin Benoit" ] [none] [Mandabear four ] ET: Re: OPINION on Colorado - If you don't want to read, delete NOW ["Kev] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:14:54 PDT From: "Erin Benoit" Subject: Re: ET: Outraged angel about news man My response.... > > Will laws really help though? YES! They will. I agree that it is the people behind the guns taht are the problem...but if we take away the weapons that they use...you can get through to the person..there is no sense in talking to the barrel of a gun. In Canada I believe there are stricter laws on guns etc...than in most states and it really works here. NOt to say that violence doesn't happen...it does...and there are illegal weapons you bet, however...it is not a s bad and we can use our energies towards helping hte people that would use the guns if they hadeasier acces to them...you are right...you can not stop someone who is determined to do what they are goin gto do...you can't fight a tornado...but you can't just sit back and stare like a deer in headlights and pray while it rampages your home and the people and thing you love. But (to stay on this analogy) there are people out there trying to follow tornados and keep track of them and figure out what they are 'thinking' so to speak...and there fore and warn alot of other people and the result...less injuries. The world will never be perfect...because we all think of perfection as something different. When you own your own planet and are the only person on it then maybe you can have the perfect world...but while ther is more than just one of us here we must all work together to make it as best we can... Life is a journey not a destination (as I recently heard ina n Aerosmith song) and that makes sense...we can't go out seeking a perfect world as a destination but we can make things better in each and every one of our own environments and learn as much as we can about others environments so that we can communicate a lot better tahn we do today. If the school, parents, society had known what signs to look for there may have been help for these two boys. However, that is now over and done with and the best we can do is look into our own lives and see what signs the people we know are throwing out there in just the same way these boys threw out signs and warings. And take everything seriously. Learn the warning signs of suicidal people. Learn the warning signs of depression. Learn...learn...and then apply what you learn and make a difference.... This is (I hate to say it) probably the best thing that could have happened to wake up the nation! But that in itself is sick...that it would take a massacre to wake up what we consider a civilised nation. But it was completely necessary wasn't it? I really hope that this does NOT become jsut yesterday's news...I encourage everyone reading this to pass it on and tell others or email this to them and learn the signs that can help save the world we live in. I wish I had more power than I do...these days you need a bunch of abbreviations after your name or a spotlight on TV in order to say something...I wish I had that at least for today so that I could tell and share this information with everyone world wide...and let you ponder it...it may not sink in until you have something directly happen in your life to relate to it...but if I get the word out ther I think the rest is up to you and we won't fail ourselves. I don't think I even got off on the tangents I wanted to cover here...but it's a start... I just want you all to check out in the next day or two...what depression and suidcide are the causes of...what the signs of this disease is and how you can recognise these signs in people in your school, community, family, friends....there is something like 1 out of 5 people living with depression (don't quote me on this) and that means that if you know 5 people, one of those is bound to have depression, or will have it at sometime in their life, or maybe you ahve it. Please take care. Erin ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 01:19:53 EDT From: Angeljlr98@aol.com Subject: Re: ET: MrBB-HGH Tickets-Last Call/What to wear? In a message dated 4/22/99 8:29:56 PM, ABershaw@aol.com wrote: <> Well..I dont' give a crap about Vogue...would it be cool to wear jeans and my EDA shirt, though? I don't know if they have some sorta dress code or anything... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:33:28 -0500 From: Fervent Spirit Subject: Re: ET: OPINION on Colorado - If you don't want to read, delete NOW The latest that i received from my sources is the reason they did this was because all the harassment they received and NOT because of a racial prejudiced. I saw their homepage before it was pulled and that does concur! "Scott S." -Big Sexy Angel "WE ARE ALL GOD'S CHILDREN! BUT WHY DO WE KILL EACH OTHER?" P.E.A.C.C.EŠ President/Founder and Proud EDA! http://homestead.com/rocksolid ICQ#9685289 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:45:45 -0500 From: Fervent Spirit Subject: Re: ET: Outraged angel about news man <> You can never get rid of all the guns! There are millions of guns made everyday and right now, there are more guns than people. You can never kill the problem, that's just a problem we need to deal with and slowly work for an answer! Rules are meant to be broken. If guns were totally banned, i goto people i know and get them with ease! The black market isnt going anywhere! "Scott S." -Big Sexy Angel "WE ARE ALL GOD'S CHILDREN! BUT WHY DO WE KILL EACH OTHER?" P.E.A.C.C.EŠ President/Founder and Proud EDA! http://homestead.com/rocksolid ICQ#9685289 ________________________________________________________________ Get secure free e-mail that you don't need Web access to use from Juno, the world's second largest online service. Download your free software at http://www.juno.com/getit.b.html. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:52:25 PDT From: "Erin Benoit" Subject: Re: ET: Outraged angel about news man > > You can never get rid of all the guns! There are millions of guns made >everyday and right now, there are more guns than people. You can never >kill the problem, that's just a problem we need to deal with and slowly >work for an answer! > >Rules are meant to be broken. If guns were totally banned, i goto people >i know and get them with ease! The black market isnt going anywhere! I understand that, I'm just saying that in Canada it has worked...sure, we have guns in the house too, but they are/were for hunting...I have no idea where they are now...but they are not as legal here as in some states (as I've heard, correct me if I'm wrong) I have known a few people to be tracked down in order to be shot but since it's illegal here everyone notices this and calls the cops right away. I never said they wouldn't have access to guns...anyone who is determined enough will have access to whatever they want. Be it drugs, guns, money, whatever... I'm just saying that if you make it a little bit more work for someone to get one, it will save at least some lives...for now...then we can go from there. It's like sex...if your kids are gonna do it, they are gonna do it, but you can not let them do it in your own home...and talk to your friends and see that they keep the same morals. So basically, get guns out of your home, talk to your kids (this is an example...I don't ahve kids but would like them one day...and I don't know if you do or not either) and things will start to improve. Like I said before it will never be perfect...because there will always be 'idols' for people who go looking...I understand Hitler was an idol of those two boys...and HItler will always be a big part of history and so there will always be access to that information. If we all become more aware of what's goin gon in our own communities, familmies etc...and start there...it will help. It is not hopeless, and leaving things the ways they are saying it won't do any good to change laws or make a fuss, it'll just happen again....of course it will, but now is the time to do something...there are enough people that got hurt by this and it's making a big enough news story that people world wide are hearing about...now is the right time to act...be it changing laws, speaking out against violence, or helping those around you who may have the feeling that start someone out on a road to suicide and possibly homocide. All I meant, is not to give up now...now is the time to ACT! The world wants to hear it now, needs to hear it now, and are finally listening....I have been wanting to say some of this stuff after just one person dead...but who's gonna listen? Now people are listening so I'm talking! I' am not giving up! So if you or anyone else has always wanted to say and do something about violence...now is the time!!! And I just hope and pray that this story doesn't become yesterday's news and we all forget about it...I am (not trying to be morbid or whatever) putting as many articles about this that I can find in oprder to keep this anger right at the tip of my tongue and not just forget about it this time....I'm doing something about it...if it just becomes yesterday's news nothing will be done. Erin ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:49:12 -0400 From: Mandabear four Subject: ET: Random thoughts passed on The world we live in today isn't getting any worse than it was years ago, it's just that we are less tolerant and more laxed about war, weapons, and legalities surrounding both. We aren't used to living in a world in which we have to fight for our well being and our beliefs. Unfortunately, these times are reapproaching and our government isn't as suited for it as it used to be. I hate to place blame on anyone regarding behavior that is and should be intolerable. I hate it that we have to live in a world of which we are afraid. I hate it even more that we are victims of our own society, but, we need to take responsibility for ourselves as well as what we model to those younger than us.] <3 always ~Mandabear~ "Pain is inevitable but suffering is optional" ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 16:25:21 -0400 From: Mandabear four Subject: [none] To everyone that reads this: My name is Jayson Martin from Littleton, Colorado, I would like for anyone who reads this to please write their name down. I would like to send prayers out to my friends who were in Columbine H.S. I would like everyone to please say a prayer for the safety of everyone who was involved in this terrible tragedy. it is something that has hurt me today as well as my friends, I'm grateful for my safety and their safety. Please Forward this to as many people as you can, let us all come together and pray that this tragedy ends soon. Thank you. ***Copy this letter, add your name and forward it to as many people as you know. thank you. > >>> > > >>>> 1. Jayson L. Martin Littleton, Colorado 2. Michelle R. Evans Aurora, Colorado >> 3. Jessica Fitzpatrick Ft Collins, Colorado > >>> > 4. Mike Coke, denver > >>> > 5. Mike Mahony, Middlebury, Vermont > >>> > 6.Ryan Beshara, New York , New York > >>> > 7. Cody Churchill, Denver, Colorado > >>> > 8. Leslie Montgomery, Colorado > >>> 9. Stephanie Brooks, Boulder, CO > >>> 10. Rob Belcher, Golden, CO > >>> 11. Scott Tucker, Old Saybrook, CT > >>> 12. Julia Pinover, NY NY > >>> 13. Jessie Sherman, NY NY > >> 14. ERICA REMBISZ, CLINTON, CT 15. Amanda Guillemette, Norwich, CT ________________________________________________________________ Get secure free e-mail that you don't need Web access to use from Juno, the world's second largest online service. Download your free software at http://www.juno.com/getit.b.html. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 20:27:34 -0400 From: "Kevin B. Pease" Subject: ET: Re: OPINION on Colorado - If you don't want to read, delete NOW Sorry for the cross-list posting, folks, but I think this is sort of an important issue. Feel free to delete it if you don't want to hear it. Otherwise, smoke 'em if you got 'em... >> Seth Fulmer writes: > [...] > etc. because everyone seems to be projecting their own moral spectrums > onto the boys. Nobody will probably ever know what the boys were > thinking, but if it were possible, I don't believe it's fair to say that > just because 'you' wouldn't have done it, and because 'you' consider it a > rash act, that 'they' considered it as such. Hitler himself considered > himself to be correct in his actions and everyone else to be in the wrong. > To say that Hitler was wrong is to project our moral spectrum onto him, > and admittedly he did the same with us, but 2 wrongs don't make a right. The thing that I disagree with about this, Seth, is the apparent tolerance of intolerance and hatred that this attitude demands. It sounds real nice to say "To each their own, it's not my place to judge those boys..." And I think (to a point), this attitude is a pretty good one. But I think there *does* come a point where, no matter how tolerant you are, you have to draw the line and say "no more." At a philosophical level, some of an individual's free will must be given up in order to have a functional society... not killing other members of your society is sort of a key point to belonging to a society. At a purely practical level, to say that it's not your place, or not my place, to say it's wrong to kill other people runs a little counter to good sense, because if you let it happen other people, what's to say that you're not the next one to be killed? If for *no* other reason than self preservation, it makes sense to say that killing other people is wrong. I'd like to think there's more reason to not kill other people than that, but even at it's most basic level, for purely selfish reasons, it makes sense. I agree, 2 wrongs don't make a right. But sitting by and watching one wrong doesn't make it right, either. > Perhaps the boys considered action to be better than inaction, > and acted upon their dislike for those types of people. My philosophy on this is simple: inaction in the face of stupidity & intolerance is not tolerance, it's idiocy and cowardice. To sit by and say, "Well, it's not my place to judge" is just as bad as approving of it and encouraging it... And let's not colloquialize it, either; What happened is that these young men went into a school with guns and bombs, and opened fire on completely defenseless and completely unaware people. They killed people, in cold blood. It wasn't "self defense", it wasn't "justified force", it was murder, and it was wrong. We can talk about "acting on our dislikes" or "not acting on our dislikes", but that's just a way of making ourselves feel better about it so we don't have to think about the reality of the situation. > [...] > I certainly am not shocked from this. You see people being > killed, wounded, etc. all the time on TV, and read about it in the > newspapers too. True, it's not shocking. You hear about stuff that's like this all too often these days... but that certainly doesn't excuse it or make it any more okay. > If not guns, then knives are found in students lockers > and are so easy to get ahold of. If, for instance a weapon knife isn't > available, a student can simply go into the parent's kitchen and grab a > butter knife. Common physics and a little biology/anatomy states that > almost any object given enough force can puncture someone's body. > People say about taking away the constitutional amendment to bear > arms. Whyfor? The general public, even if they have the volition to > destroy/maim/mutilate/kill/torture/etc. others, don't do it. Those that > do do it, and haven't been caught...if arms(guns,bombs, grenades, etc.) > are made illegal, they'll just find other tools for the job. True again... but trying to limit the prevalence of guns will certainly take away some of the "point and click" ease of hurting someone else. Sure, if someone really wants to inflict damage on someone else, they'll stab them, or beat them over the head with a 2x4... but to make it even easier to act so irrevocably on a spur of the moment thought is dangerous, and irresponsible on society's part. Do I believe guns should be banned? Eh... I don't know. Do I believe that, at the very least, they should be a hell of a lot harder to get, and a LOT more controlled? You bet. Do I think you should be able to go down to your local department store and pick up a .45? Hell no, I don't care how long the waiting period is, or how strict the "licensing" terms are. Yeah yeah I've heard the argument, "When you make gun owners criminals, only criminals will have guns." I've heard that argument, and it sounds real cute, but I don't agree with it. If you make guns hard (or impossible) for the average person to get, then sooner or later, the criminals are going to have a REAL hard time getting ahold of a gun, too. Who are they going to get it from, if they're not readily available? Anyway. Again, sorry for the cross posting, folks, if I ruined your day, my apologies... Kevin - ---------- Kevin Pease kbpease@boston.crosswinds.net ICQ UIN: 3106063 AOL IM: kbpease http://www.crosswinds.net/boston/~kbpease/ "And I can't help but remember you / Morning high, midnight low / I don't want to dance with your memory / But somehow I can't let you go..." ---(Chris Knight, "The Band Is Playing Too Slow")--- ------------------------------ End of eda-thoughts-digest V2 #116 **********************************