From: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org (eda-thoughts-digest) To: eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Subject: eda-thoughts-digest V1 #177 Reply-To: eda-thoughts@smoe.org Sender: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk eda-thoughts-digest Tuesday, September 8 1998 Volume 01 : Number 177 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: ET: Re: thee question [Summer Burton ] ET: fate [moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Charlie, Cob & the GoA)] ET: this "thee question" thing that I'm behind on [moonsong@ix.netcom.com] ET: abuse topic [moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Charlie, Cob & the GoA)] ET: thee goodguy/badguy ["ws r" ] ET: thee goodguy/badguy ["ws r" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 23:49:01 -0500 From: Summer Burton Subject: Re: ET: Re: thee question JonBoy911@aol.com wrote: > << I know some great guys who this isn't true, but the > majority of boys 13-20 I know fall into that trap, even if they THINK they > don't. >> > Somebody is over generalyzing. It's people like you who give nice guys like > me a bad name. :) You say that to me, but I am the only person who took any issue with the fact that the guys in this discussion keep saying "girls do this, why do girls do this", etc, etc, about things that *I*, nor any of my friend do? If I'm generalizing it's in response to their generalizations, I'm usually the one that defends guys on issues like this... But this entire conversation was based upon a generalization - "Why do girls ___", and I continued in that fashion although clearly stating there are exceptions (you included)... Besides, I never even said most guys, I just said most boys I know - personal experience. You don't know the boys I know! :-)Anyway, sorry if I was over generalizing, but I thought THEY were in the original post and was only trying to illustrate that there are two sides of the coin. - -Summer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:51:00 -0700 From: moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Charlie, Cob & the GoA) Subject: ET: fate Angels, Ok, this making your own fate thing as Kevin put it...that's pretty nifty but that also sends a really scared feelin through this lil ? angel here. Y'know I totally believe in the whole fate/destiny thing, that hopefully we'll all meet and fall in love with whoever the "one person" we're destined for is. But does it ever freak anyone else out that a) maybe there's not just one person (big question in my inquiring mind) and b) what if there's a slight slip of chance and you never do meet the person of your dreams? Would that still be fate just cloaked, or would that be twisting and distorting "fate" (and what IS fate)? Do you have to date everyone in the world to see who fits you best? How do you know when you're in love? What if you think you are and then you meet someone else and you feel like you love THEM? Are there just different kinds of love? How do you know what to do or how do you feel so that you lead a happy life? If you fall in love with everyone you go out with then is that really love? Oh, the questions.... Sam the ? angel moonsong@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:51:04 -0700 From: moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Charlie, Cob & the GoA) Subject: ET: this "thee question" thing that I'm behind on Well Angels, We often seem to be attracted to the "bad guy." We know that the sweet, sensitive caring guy is there for us and we know they're the best choice, but still, when the pot-smoking surfer with the blonde hair and stupid slang casts his sparkling gaze upon the knowing-but-ignoring girl, it's hard to resist. You know he's bad, you know he uses, you know he's brain-dead, but that natural appeal thing is going. It's easy to fall in line with Mr Fine Jerk and be used and lose, but it takes time effort and a lot of thinking about life and really feeling to attach to The Good Guy. I personally perfere The Good Guy, I'm sure all of us girls really do, in our hearts, but the outside attraction or the dangerous glower appeal as well. Also as Kevin said, the "nice guys" sit on the sidelines, or are else overshadowed by the "not nice guys," or else are so into the idea that they will be overshadowed that they don't even try. If the quiet nice cute smart thoughtful guy in the corner comes up and talks to me, I'm happy and that's much better than the untouchable loser, but the untouchable loser usually becomes more touchable and wanders over into my face, and, voila.... It's really sad actually....But the nice guys will get their turn, and be much more appreciated. It takes some lessons and learning I suppose. I feel like I don't know what I'm talking about here....But I agree with what Kevin said. He put it better actually. Sam the ? angel moonsong@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:51:07 -0700 From: moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Charlie, Cob & the GoA) Subject: ET: abuse topic Scott said: >>>Why is it that women say they can't find a good man when one is most likely sitting next to him? I've been told so many stories of abusive relationships where the girl gets hit or whatever and she's with him to the day. I can understand the love does have a factor in relationships but why him when right around the corner might be a guy who loves to give flowers, lie underneath the stars talking about life and love's little mysteries? If you're looking for a good man, then, well, we're all around?<<< Kevin said: >>> There's a lot more to abusive relationships than love, though... it has a lot to do with "power" in the relationship, and the way the particular guy and girl approach their respective roles in the relationship... past histories have a lot to do with this type of relationship as well. Abusers were often abused... Abusees were often abused, as well... many of the abusers end up copying their childhood role models, and many of the abusees often can't break free from their attachment to their childhood abusers... unfortunately, a vicious cycle, and one that can't be explained by a simple, "He says he loves me," or "She says she loves me..." To many people in relationships like this, they have no real conception of the existence of people who *don't* abuse, and what it's like to be loved without the fear of being socked in the face... it's the norm, and it's accepted that people hit or get hit by both parties... It's not right, but it's the sad, unfortunate way it works.<<< Exactly to both Sue and to Kevin. And, yes, "POWER" is the big word here. And it also has a lot to do with the threatening. You know, it's easy for us, on the outside, to say, "get up and leave." But where do you go? And when he threatens to kill you, it's easy to believe, especially when he's thrown you against the wall and punched you in the face and broken your arms. I heard a call once from a girl whose mother was a druggie and whose father was an acoholic and abusive. He limited everything she did, up to things like disconnecting phones even I believe, he was violent to her boyfriend, violent to her if she tried to leave, her boyfriend was supportive but was getting discouraged, she was trapped with absolutely no way out. What would you do? It's easy to say, it's harder to act. My sister worked in a Battered Women's Shelter. She took emergency calls, worked with the women in support groups and had many frightening encounters. One woman walked out of the shelter and her husband was in a car waiting. Many women went back to their husbands and boyfriends, others tried to go through with breaking away. It was hard for my sister to hear the frantic calls she took, hard to see the battered faces, hard to put her own life in danger, hard to be the only one of anyone she knew who was allowed to know where the shelter was (for safety reasons). But she did it. My dad has also recieved papers from abused women. They are heartbreaking. So with this kind of background in my family and from the things I've learned, I personally find it rather upsetting and slightly insulting when a person, especially a guy, simplifies (and I am not talking about you Kevin, NOT at all) the situations of battered women. Scott said, "why did they take the abusers when we nice guys are around." Well that often starts from the littler things, like flirting with the motorcycle druggie at school, or even being abused at a young age and going after the same kind of loser. Eventually you wind yourself more and more into a net till you tie your own noose, unless you get out. It isn't easy at all. Their lives are hell. And usually it seems like there's no way out. Sam the ? angel moonsong@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 23:22:24 PDT From: "ws r" Subject: ET: thee goodguy/badguy Hey there everyone, I think that Sam was right when she said >We often seem to be attracted to the "bad guy." I know when I went through my bad is so cool phase. And I think Kevin has a point in saying that it seems to be a problem with young girls. Not to say that I represent all girls (Hopefully there are some who skip this phase, please tell me that social evolution is on the right track!) but I do agree. Anyone out there rember that Bon Jovi Song "Wanted Dead or Alive"? Oh, the poor swayed ones, woe to the misunderstood guy who goes out and drives fast with a camel cigarette hanging from his half cocked "Wild thing" grin. I fell for that, I saw the "toubled youth" image and practically turned myself into a carbon copy of one while trying to "Help". The lul of "Bad" was strong. And for me, it was a phase, and I grew out of it. And I geuss basically Sam already said that when she said: >We know that the sweet,>sensitive caring guy is there for us and we know they're the best choice,>but still, when the pot-smoking surfer with the blonde hair and stupid>slang casts his sparkling gaze upon the knowing-but-ignoring girl, it's>hard to resist. You know he's bad, you know he uses, you know he's>brain-dead, but that natural appeal thing is going. However,I would like to piont out that it's not always the cronic pot smokers, or the guys in the leather jackets with the stubble and the harley who decide it's o.k to take out their problems in an abusive way. Mommies little boy's do it too. The guys with the tennis sweaters and the polished shoes are also fully capable of slamming their girlfriends against the wall and spitting in her face. So is it also for the computer geek and that average looking guy down the hall. So, what am I rambling about? Well, I'm just saying that the bad image isn't a persons soul comming out. It's only an image someones trying to put out to say they're tough, and that they want to make their own ideas, blah blah blah. But just because he looks bad doesn't mean he is. I know guys who dress in leather and have piercings who's fav cologne is essence du cannibis who have personalities the same as pussycats. (I'm not saying that pot good or bad here either so don't make assumptions that way) But I also know those average poetic types that go home and kick innocent asses. Basically, I'll just cut it short and say that you can't judge a book by it's cover. And sometimes the one who you tought was "Bad" was really the nice guy. Sometimes you can't see it. >It's easy to fall in line with Mr Fine Jerk and be used and lose, but it>takes time effort and a lot of thinking about life and really feeling to>attach to The Good Guy. See, here, I don't agree. And no offense Sam, but the nice guys aren't hard to like.Really. Maybe because the one your thinking of isn't "Popular" so you have to break through those barriers before you even notice him. I mean, when I meet a nice guy, the last thing I start doing is annalysing life and my feelings to know it. I dunno. I geuss that's just my 2 cents on that. >I personally perfere The Good Guy, I'm sure all of>us girls really do, in our hearts, but the outside attraction or the>dangerous glower appeal as well. Yes, I agree. But do you love the BAD guy? or are you just attracted to his attire and actions? >Also as Kevin said, the "nice guys" sit on the sidelines, or are else >overshadowed by the "not nice guys," or else are so into the idea that they>will be overshadowed that they don't even try. If the quiet nice cute>smart thoughtful guy in the corner comes up and talks to me,I'm happy and>that's much better than the untouchable loser, but the untouchable loser>usually becomes more touchable and wanders over into my face, and,>voila.... I think your exactly on here though. The good ones never seem to want to ask you to dance do they? Only the ones who want to do it so they can grab your butt when you dance in front of their buddies... well, it's late and I think I've actually started preaching. Sorry to pick on your post sam, I geuss I'm just in one of those moods. But again, that's just how I see it. Man, it's bed time for me now. Night NIght, Sue "...If you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Friedrich Nietzsche Beyond good and evil "And I don't want the world to see me, cuz I don't think that they'd understand. When everything's made to be broken, I just want you to know who I am." -Googoo Dolls "Iris" "When everything feels like the movies, yeah, you bleed just to know you're alive." -Googoo Dolls "Iris" "When Kinderman asked him why Amfortas would allow himself to die,Doctor Coffy's only answer was,"I think it had something to do with love."" -William Peter Blatty "Legion" "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances:If there is any reaction, both are transformed." _C.G. Jung ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 23:22:40 PDT From: "ws r" Subject: ET: thee goodguy/badguy Hey there everyone, I think that Sam was right when she said >We often seem to be attracted to the "bad guy." I know when I went through my bad is so cool phase. And I think Kevin has a point in saying that it seems to be a problem with young girls. Not to say that I represent all girls (Hopefully there are some who skip this phase, please tell me that social evolution is on the right track!) but I do agree. Anyone out there rember that Bon Jovi Song "Wanted Dead or Alive"? Oh, the poor swayed ones, woe to the misunderstood guy who goes out and drives fast with a camel cigarette hanging from his half cocked "Wild thing" grin. I fell for that, I saw the "toubled youth" image and practically turned myself into a carbon copy of one while trying to "Help". The lul of "Bad" was strong. And for me, it was a phase, and I grew out of it. And I geuss basically Sam already said that when she said: >We know that the sweet,>sensitive caring guy is there for us and we know they're the best choice,>but still, when the pot-smoking surfer with the blonde hair and stupid>slang casts his sparkling gaze upon the knowing-but-ignoring girl, it's>hard to resist. You know he's bad, you know he uses, you know he's>brain-dead, but that natural appeal thing is going. However,I would like to piont out that it's not always the cronic pot smokers, or the guys in the leather jackets with the stubble and the harley who decide it's o.k to take out their problems in an abusive way. Mommies little boy's do it too. The guys with the tennis sweaters and the polished shoes are also fully capable of slamming their girlfriends against the wall and spitting in her face. So is it also for the computer geek and that average looking guy down the hall. So, what am I rambling about? Well, I'm just saying that the bad image isn't a persons soul comming out. It's only an image someones trying to put out to say they're tough, and that they want to make their own ideas, blah blah blah. But just because he looks bad doesn't mean he is. I know guys who dress in leather and have piercings who's fav cologne is essence du cannibis who have personalities the same as pussycats. (I'm not saying that pot good or bad here either so don't make assumptions that way) But I also know those average poetic types that go home and kick innocent asses. Basically, I'll just cut it short and say that you can't judge a book by it's cover. And sometimes the one who you tought was "Bad" was really the nice guy. Sometimes you can't see it. >It's easy to fall in line with Mr Fine Jerk and be used and lose, but it>takes time effort and a lot of thinking about life and really feeling to>attach to The Good Guy. See, here, I don't agree. And no offense Sam, but the nice guys aren't hard to like.Really. Maybe because the one your thinking of isn't "Popular" so you have to break through those barriers before you even notice him. I mean, when I meet a nice guy, the last thing I start doing is annalysing life and my feelings to know it. I dunno. I geuss that's just my 2 cents on that. >I personally perfere The Good Guy, I'm sure all of>us girls really do, in our hearts, but the outside attraction or the>dangerous glower appeal as well. Yes, I agree. But do you love the BAD guy? or are you just attracted to his attire and actions? >Also as Kevin said, the "nice guys" sit on the sidelines, or are else >overshadowed by the "not nice guys," or else are so into the idea that they>will be overshadowed that they don't even try. If the quiet nice cute>smart thoughtful guy in the corner comes up and talks to me,I'm happy and>that's much better than the untouchable loser, but the untouchable loser>usually becomes more touchable and wanders over into my face, and,>voila.... I think your exactly on here though. The good ones never seem to want to ask you to dance do they? Only the ones who want to do it so they can grab your butt when you dance in front of their buddies... well, it's late and I think I've actually started preaching. Sorry to pick on your post sam, I geuss I'm just in one of those moods. But again, that's just how I see it. Man, it's bed time for me now. Night NIght, Sue "...If you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Friedrich Nietzsche Beyond good and evil "And I don't want the world to see me, cuz I don't think that they'd understand. When everything's made to be broken, I just want you to know who I am." -Googoo Dolls "Iris" "When everything feels like the movies, yeah, you bleed just to know you're alive." -Googoo Dolls "Iris" "When Kinderman asked him why Amfortas would allow himself to die,Doctor Coffy's only answer was,"I think it had something to do with love."" -William Peter Blatty "Legion" "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances:If there is any reaction, both are transformed." _C.G. Jung ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of eda-thoughts-digest V1 #177 **********************************