From: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org (eda-thoughts-digest) To: eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Subject: eda-thoughts-digest V1 #175 Reply-To: eda-thoughts@smoe.org Sender: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk eda-thoughts-digest Monday, September 7 1998 Volume 01 : Number 175 Today's Subjects: ----------------- ET: Re: rollin' rollin' rollin', keep it rollin' ["Kevin Pease" ] Re: ET: Re: thee question [Summer Burton ] ET: Re: rollin' rollin' rollin', keep it rollin' [moonsong@ix.netcom.com ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:14:33 -0400 From: "Kevin Pease" Subject: ET: Re: rollin' rollin' rollin', keep it rollin' >> Charlie, Cob & the GoA writes: >Nothing Good Can Stay >[...] >woke up today to find >you'd changed your mind >with the pale progressing day >nothing good can stay Hey Sam, these were all really good. I just wanted to comment on this one, though, really. I was curious if you've ever read Robert Frost's "Nothing Gold Can Stay"... it's one of my all-time favorites, and reading yours, it struck me that there was a parallel here, and I liked it. :) In case you haven't read it, and for those others of you who haven't and are wondering what the hell I'm talking about... (This is from memory, so it may not be 100% correct... but it's more or less right. :) - ------ Nothing Gold Can Stay (by Robert Frost) Nature's first green is gold, Her hardest hue to hold, Her early leaf's a flower, But only so an hour. Then leaf subsides to leaf, So Eden sank to grief, As dawn goes down to day, So nothing gold can stay. - ------ It's short, but I've always loved this one. Just curious if you've ever read it, and if the similarity was only in my mind, or yours as well? Kevin - ---------- Kevin Pease kbpease@boston.crosswinds.net (ICQ UIN: 3106063) (AOL Instant Messenger: kbpease) http://www.crosswinds.net/boston/~kbpease "Sometimes I sing like my life is at stake, 'cause you're only as loud as the noises you make..." ---(Ani DiFranco)--- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:30:56 -0400 From: "Kevin Pease" Subject: ET: A couple poems (not mine)... Hey all... Anyway, being poetically dis-inclined, I didn't write these poems. But I picked up a little monthly poetry magazine on the way to the airport last week, so I'd have something to read on the flight to Louisiana. Two of them, I really thought were pretty cool, so I figured I'd share them... enjoy them. :) ~~~~~~~~ "Sometimes Never," by Joyce Sutphen Talking, we begin to find the way into our hearts, we who knew no words, words being a rare commodity in those countries we left behind. Both refugees and similarly deprived, We marvel at the many things there are to say: so many variations and colors of the same thought, so many different lengths in the words that line up together on our tongues. No scarcity, no rationing, no waiting in line in order to buy the same answer we heard each time we asked, that one word, owned by the state, manufactured by the state, serving all purposes equally alike: No, No, No, and sometimes Never. ~~~~~~~ "List Of Seemingly Unrelated Observations," by Grace Butcher Distance, like snow, melts. Walking in deep yellow leaves drowns out your voice. Thinking, like a deep river, eats canyons in your mind. Everything blossoms that can. Everything blossomed that could. Stars move if they are airplanes; wish fast. You can live in as many places at once as you need to. For some places you don't go anymore, you still have a key. A dream brings you into morning one way or another. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Kevin - ---------- Kevin Pease kbpease@boston.crosswinds.net (ICQ UIN: 3106063) (AOL Instant Messenger: kbpease) http://www.crosswinds.net/boston/~kbpease "Sometimes I sing like my life is at stake, 'cause you're only as loud as the noises you make..." ---(Ani DiFranco)--- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 20:54:15 -0500 From: sesykes@juno.com (Scott - E Sykes) Subject: Re: ET: Re: thee question personally, that's a nice guy! And, from what i've heard, Leo aint all that in A LOT of ways! On Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:05:33 -0400 "Kevin Pease" writes: >>> Scott - E Sykes writes: >>Why is it that women say they can't find a good man when one is most >>likely sitting next to him? > > My feeling on this is, they don't know they're sitting next to a >good >man if the good man doesn't speak up. :) I've been told that many >times, >and I think it's true, from people I know... A lot of the "nice" guys >I know >would range in a description of social abilities from "fairly shy" to >"downright antisocial"... I'd like to think I'm a pretty nice guy, and >I >still always have a lot of problems meeting women, and a lot of it is >because (as I've mentioned before), I *hate* starting conversations >with >people I don't know... I suck at it, plain and simple. That right >there is >probably 75% of the reason why the fact that I'm a "nice guy (tm)" >hasn't >show through. :) The same thing applies to a lot of my friends... >they're >real nice guys, but they're terrified to go up and talk to a girl. >(For the >record: I'm not terrified, I just sound like a complete moron... I >ain't >got that "je ne sais quois" (French for: "smooth-talking, >steroid-enhanced, >perfect-haired movie star look." :) ) > Another thing I believe is that some younger girls (and please >don't >beat me, 'cause a lot of you ARE younger than me... this is my >opinion, not >a sociological fact that I've established. There are undoubtedly >exceptions. :) seem to be looking for an "exciting" sort of guy... >there >comes an age where the nice guys actually have an edge (from what I've >seen, >after college, it seems to start reversing a bit), because the girls >are >looking for more than someone with attractive chin stubble and a fast >car. >(AGAIN: I am not naming names, or saying this is the way all girls >see >things, or even that this is the way MOST girls see things... I've >noticed >it in some, and I think this contributes to the attitude Scott >mentioned. >If you don't like what I'm saying, disagree... just don't mail bomb >me. :) >I can't really blame them... if I were a 17 year old girl, and I was >given >the option to choose between: Me, or Leonardo DiCaprio, I'd choose >Leonardo >hands down, too. He looks & seems more like the exciting type of guy, >who >will fly someone to Paris for the evening, and then maybe get involved >in a >high speed chase through Beverly Hills. Whereas *I* am the sort of >guy who >believes that driving fast is fun sometimes, but really... nobody wins >when >we play games with traffic safety. And you better forget about flying >to >Paris for the evening with me... I live within a budget. :) Guys who >can >come across as attractive, exciting, and "so money"... they're the >ones who >are more noticeable. I come across as average, cautious, and "well, I >have >a job at least...", and that's why I don't get noticed when I'm >standing >next to one of those other guys. > >>I've been told so many stories of abusive >>relationships where the girl gets hit or whatever and she's with him >to >>the day. I can understand the love does have a factor in >relationships >>but why him when right around the corner might be a guy who loves to >give >>flowers, lie underneath the stars talking about life and love's >little >>mysteries? > > There's a lot more to abusive relationships than love, though... >it has >a lot to do with "power" in the relationship, and the way the >particular guy >and girl approach their respective roles in the relationship... past >histories have a lot to do with this type of relationship as well. >Abusers >were often abused... Abusees were often abused, as well... many of the >abusers end up copying their childhood role models, and many of the >abusees >often can't break free from their attachment to their childhood >abusers... >unfortunately, a vicious cycle, and one that can't be explained by a >simple, >"He says he loves me," or "She says she loves me..." To many people >in >relationships like this, they have no real conception of the existence >of >people who *don't* abuse, and what it's like to be loved without the >fear of >being socked in the face... it's the norm, and it's accepted that >people hit >or get hit by both parties... It's not right, but it's the sad, >unfortunate >way it works. > > Kevin >---------- >Kevin Pease kbpease@boston.crosswinds.net >(ICQ UIN: 3106063) (AOL Instant Messenger: kbpease) > http://www.crosswinds.net/boston/~kbpease >"Sometimes I sing like my life is at stake, > 'cause you're only as loud as the noises you make..." > ---(Ani DiFranco)--- > > ** Scott S.** -Big Sexy Angel "MISPLACED HATE MAKES DISGRACED RACES!" -Tupac Shakur R.I.P _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 19:23:08 PDT From: "ws r" Subject: ET:my two cents on Re: thee question Hey guys, When I read this post: >I've been told so many stories of abusive>relationships where the girl gets hit or whatever and she's with him to>the day. I can understand the love does have a factor in relationships>but why him when right around the corner might be a guy who loves to give>flowers, lie underneath the stars talking about life and love's little >mysteries? I knew I'd have an oppion I just had to share with you guys. First of all when Kevin said: > There's a lot more to abusive relationships than love, though... it has>a lot to do with "power" in the relationship, and the way the particular guy>and girl approach their respective roles in the relationship... past>histories have a lot to do with this type of relationship as well. Abusers>were often abused... Abusees were often abused, as well... many of the>abusers end up copying their childhood role models, and many of the abusees>often can't break free from their attachment to their childhood abusers...>unfortunately, a vicious cycle, and one that can't be explained by a simple,>"He says he loves me," or "She says she loves me..." To many people in>relationships like this, they have no real conception of the existence of>people who *don't* abuse, and what it's like to be loved without the fear of >being socked in the face... it's the norm, and it's accepted that people hit>or get hit by both parties... It's not right, but it's the sad,unfortunate>way it works. I think he was right on the mark. However, I think that there's a bit more to it in some cases. I know all about it. A lot of times the girls/guys are dealing with some major self esteem issues. They feel that although these people are hurting them, they also love them, so that almost makes it worth it. They feel that need for love, and acceptance so badly that they'll give up their own well being for the tastes of it that thier abusers give them. And also, they're afraid. More afraid of letting go of the only love they're getting then the abuse that comes with it. IT becomes kind of a "But if I leave ___abuser___ then who will want me?" It's about deperation, and need. And I think that if you see someone who's with a jerk, then if truly are a nice guy, let yourself be known (Like Kevin said) because these girls/guys need to know that there are better things out there for them. I'm not saying go up and say. "God, get away from that jerk!" Just show them your not one. Even if it's just by smiling at them. Anyway, I've blabbed enough. Sorry that took so long to say, Sue "...If you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Friedrich Nietzsche Beyond good and evil "And I don't want the world to see me, cuz I don't think that they'd understand. When everything's made to be broken, I just want you to know who I am." -Googoo Dolls "Iris" "When everything feels like the movies, yeah, you bleed just to know you're alive." -Googoo Dolls "Iris" "When Kinderman asked him why Amfortas would allow himself to die,Doctor Coffy's only answer was,"I think it had something to do with love."" -William Peter Blatty "Legion" "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: If there is any reation, both are transformed." -C.G. Jung ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:52:40 -0500 From: Summer Burton Subject: Re: ET: Re: thee question Kevin Pease wrote: > Another thing I believe is that some younger girls (and please don't > beat me, 'cause a lot of you ARE younger than me... this is my opinion, not > a sociological fact that I've established. There are undoubtedly > exceptions. :) seem to be looking for an "exciting" sort of guy... there > comes an age where the nice guys actually have an edge (from what I've seen, > after college, it seems to start reversing a bit), because the girls are > looking for more than someone with attractive chin stubble and a fast car. > (AGAIN: I am not naming names, or saying this is the way all girls see > things, or even that this is the way MOST girls see things... I've noticed > it in some, and I think this contributes to the attitude Scott mentioned. > If you don't like what I'm saying, disagree... just don't mail bomb me. :) > I can't really blame them... if I were a 17 year old girl, and I was given > the option to choose between: Me, or Leonardo DiCaprio, I'd choose Leonardo > hands down, too. He looks & seems more like the exciting type of guy, who > will fly someone to Paris for the evening, and then maybe get involved in a > high speed chase through Beverly Hills. Although I disagree, I find that what you say IS true for some girls. However, let us not forget in these discussions that all these things are reversable. Most all of the teenage guys I know (probably MORE that the number of girls I know who fit your description) only like girls who have "barbie" bodies and, perhaps, seem "easy". I know some great guys who this isn't true, but the majority of boys 13-20 I know fall into that trap, even if they THINK they don't. On the girl issue, I think this is true for some people, but it does switch around and perhaps sooner for some people than you think. After one horrible expereince with a drinking, girl-crazy, "exciting" sort of guy, all the guys I dig now are quiet, poet, sensitive types - I could care less about finding a Leo-lookalike and more about actually finding a halfway decent guy who will be sweet. The guy I really like right now is thougt of as a "dork" in most circles, is a year and a half younger than me BUT he loves to talk to me, he writes poetry and he likes to dance. So I'm into it. And I'm 16... An early turnaround, you might think, an exception, but this guy is really popular now within my friends, because he's actually NICE and SWEET. The guys in our group that drive fast, have lors of experience, etc, etc, are actually VERY "out" right now... > There's a lot more to abusive relationships than love, though... it has > a lot to do with "power" in the relationship, and the way the particular guy > and girl approach their respective roles in the relationship... past > histories have a lot to do with this type of relationship as well. Abusers > were often abused... Abusees were often abused, as well... many of the > abusers end up copying their childhood role models, and many of the abusees > often can't break free from their attachment to their childhood abusers... > unfortunately, a vicious cycle, and one that can't be explained by a simple, > "He says he loves me," or "She says she loves me..." To many people in > relationships like this, they have no real conception of the existence of > people who *don't* abuse, and what it's like to be loved without the fear of > being socked in the face... it's the norm, and it's accepted that people hit > or get hit by both parties... It's not right, but it's the sad, unfortunate > way it works. Yea, I have a friend who's constantly getting into abusive relationships and I can vouch for what Kevin says.. This is not a SIMPLE issue at all.. - -Summer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 20:40:52 -0700 From: moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Charlie, Cob & the GoA) Subject: ET: Re: rollin' rollin' rollin', keep it rollin' Kevin, Thanks, first. :) And yeah, I've read "Nothing Gold Can Stay." Actually I had a feeling I was making a parallel but I couldn't quite place where, so thanks for bringing it to my consciousness. :) Yeah, it was in my mind. It's a beautiful poem ("Nothing Gold Can Stay by Robert Frost).... Sam the ? angel moonsong@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ End of eda-thoughts-digest V1 #175 **********************************