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Subject: eda-thoughts-digest V1 #122
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eda-thoughts-digest      Tuesday, August 18 1998      Volume 01 : Number 122



                               Today's Subjects:
                               -----------------
  ET: amanda's poem, page, etc.                 [moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Us)]
  ET: Re: all the posts on eda-thoughts-digest V1 #118   [Angeljlb96@aol.com]
  ET: more more more                                     [Angeljlb96@aol.com]
  ET: Re: Everything that is me  ["Kevin Pease" <kbpease@boston.crosswinds.n]
  ET: some poems                                [zerocool@sunlink.net (Niki)]
  Re: ET: Re: all the posts on eda-thoughts-digest V1 #118  [Seth Fulmer <ka]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:05:37 -0700
From: moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Us)
Subject: ET: amanda's poem, page, etc.

amanda,

"your guardian" was a truly beautiful poem....i'm going to print it and
remind myself when i'm low that there are angels.

i'm thinking of *possibly* making a poem page on my webpage, could you guys
please send me the ones you've written that mean the most to you (if you're
interested)?  they can be simple, they can be short, they can be detailed
and long (not too long if possible, but i've written lots of long
meaningful poems so don't worry too much).  as long as they mean something
to you, or you felt they mean something to the world, or even if you aren't
sure about it/them (poems) but someone else has been deeply affected.  get
my drift?  :)  amanda, can i put yours up there?  also, if possible, send a
short bio of yourself (and your website url if you have one).

i have a question for mike--do you read all the poems that we contribute,
and all the posts, and do you write any poems yourself?  if so, i'd like to
see them.  =)

~*keep the sunlight in your hearts angels*~

sam
the ? angel



moonsong@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:32:58 EDT
From: Angeljlb96@aol.com
Subject: ET: Re: all the posts on eda-thoughts-digest V1 #118

Hi everyone...okay...so I got lots to respond to, and I'm gonna try to do it
in as few emails as I possible...so bear with me.

First off...how many times have I read "she looks like barbie?"  Do I have to
remind you peeps of Barbie's measurements? 36-18-34...ummm...hello?  you'd be
dead!

<<"Why do I care how she sees me?  If she can't see past dishevelled hair,
half-groomed beard(that should have been shaved a week and a half ago), a
pimple the size of St. Louis underneath my nose on my lip and a breath that
would knock a drunk cowboy off his horse from across the country, then she
doesn't deserve to be my friend, much less like me as more.">>

Now, SETH, dear...we gotta talk.  There's a fine line between "grooming" or
"prepping up" and downright skankiness (not that I'm calling you a skank dear,
but I think you'll get the point).  Now...if a guy came to my
door....ESPECIALLY for prom...with messy hair..unshaven...and horrible breath
(see...this is the main thing, here)...ummm...ain't no way he's coming near
me.  I don't look for a hot guy...but I do tend to look for a clean one.

<<but at the same time I will almost go to the opposite degree and
make myself outright repulsive just to see if the lady will see past the
repulsion to my personality>>

you see...it's not about looking past to the personality completely.  I still
think you're a great guy, but if you're downright repulsive...chances are
you're gonna repulse me!

Why did you and Becky decide not to meet?

<<Actually, it was quite nice Jaime :)  Send more!>>

Thanks, Seth, and so I shall.

See now you're doing this "I'm god-awful looking" thing again...we really have
to talk about this sweetie.  I mean...you're no Steve Poltz, but you're no
Steve Poltz (Seth...do you get that sweetie?  remember our conversation
yesterday? ;-))  Just try a little harder to not get so down on yourself,
dear.


<<Angeljlb96:	 really...you're so great, Jon.  I wish you knew that >>

JON...see now you got everyone thinking I'm obsessed with you again!
Sheesh...whatever shall I do with you??!?!?!  <<f*ck me gently with a
chainsaw. :)>.
whatever you psycho...I mean, how would one go about even attempting that,
really?

*NOTE TO LIST* I'm not obsessed with Jon...I just wanna jump on him.


SAM...I liked your poems, dear =)


BEN...

<<it just is a feeling that arises from a primal need to mate.>>

 lol...am I stupid for feeling like a monkey?  I mean when I read this, I just
had "The State" flashbacks about them wanting to go to the zoo to watch the
monkeys do it.  Nevermind...guess I'm alone on this one.

<<don't be fooled, it's okay to want to look good. It's okay to put ti9me into
your appearance. It's okay to care, and it's okay to look for that in other
people. It's been my experience that those who are comfortable with the way
they look are the most attractive, regardless of what their actual appearance
may be.>>

See...I'm totally agreeing with Ben here.  Everything on this list on this
thread so far has been "makeup sucks...blah blah blah" (and need I mention
Seth's post I responded to up above).  I think it's okay to fix yourself up.
I know...I rarely ever do it, but when I do I feel really good about myself.
When I look great...I feel great.

<<Down with cosmetics!>>

Cute, Ben...cute =)


ALRIGHT!  Done with that digest =)

Love,
Jamie

Here's a song I thought you guys might like...I give it to all the people I
really care about...kinda as a gift.  Just to tell them it'll be okay =)

"It Can't Rain All the Time"
by Jane Siberry

We walk the narrow path
Beneath the smoking skies
Sometimes you can barely tell the difference
Between the darkness and light
Do we have faith
in what we believe?
The truest test is when we can not
We can not see

I hear pounding feet
In the streets bellow
And the women cried
And the children moaned
There's something wrong
It's hard to believe that love will prevail

Oh-
It won't rain all the time
The sky won't fall forever
And though the night seems long
Your tears won't fall forever
Oh-

When I'm lonely
I lay awake at night
And I wish you were here
I miss you
Can you tell me-
Is there something more to believe in
Or is this all there is?
And the pounding feet
In the streets bellow
And a window breaks
And a women falls
There's something wrong
It's hard to believe that love will prevail

It won't rain all the time
The sky won't fall forever
And though the night seems long
Your tears won't fall
Your tears won't fall
Your tears won't fall
forever

Last night I had a dream
You can into my room
You took me
Into your arms
Whispering and kissing me
And telling me to still believe
The very emptiness
Of the burning seas
Against which we see our darkest decides
Until I felt
Safe
And warm
I fell asleep in your arms
When I the world
I cried again
For you were gone
Can you hear me?

It won't rain all the time
The sky won't fall forever
And though the night seems long
Your tears won't fall forever

It won't rain all the time
The sky won't fall forever
And though the night seems long
Your tears won't fall
Your tears won't fall
Your tears won't fall
Forever

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:44:08 EDT
From: Angeljlb96@aol.com
Subject: ET: more more more

Hi again...okay...shoot me...cuz I know you want to...

SUE, who are you?  Where'd you come from?  Have you posted before?  I think I
like you =)

<<I think that in some cases, many people want to be considered the 
pained poet. They revel in their imperfections, and maybe, just maybe, 
find some kind of satisfaction in their pain.>>

I definitaly agree with you here.

<<As for the beauty thread, it kind of reminds me of a problem I have.>>

Ummm...Sue, this ain't healthy dear.  Does he know you feel like an ornament?
Or that you look to him as though he's one?  You guys need to talk...(or just
ignore me)


SAM...
<<Despite the horror of anorexia, anorexic girls still get more whistles,
honks, stares, and compliments on their looks than ever before.>>

I disagree with you here.  I for one am about 5'5" and 110-115, and I think
I'm too skinny.  I know that a lot of people think the same thing about me.  I
also very often hear people say that someone's not attractive bc of it...take
Fiona Apple for instance.  That's a common joke I use when I don't eat
enough..."I look anorexic...I look like Fiona Apple"  Granted, people still
think she's gorgeous, but everyone comments on how she's too skinny.


MIKE...wow, I haven't heard "You've got a Friend" in ages...wit was nice to
remember it while reading it.

WOOO!  Done...really =)

Love,
Jamie

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:04:58 -0400
From: "Kevin Pease" <kbpease@boston.crosswinds.net>
Subject: ET: Re: Everything that is me

[Caution:  Sort of long.  If you're not interested, feel free to delete.
:)]

>> ws r <wsr@hotmail.com>
>  I think that in some cases, many people want to be considered the
>pained poet. They revel in their imperfections, and maybe, just maybe,
>find some kind of satisfaction in their pain. Not to say that they're
>sick, but because to them it is a triumph, a way of pushing back at the
>world that pushes on them by saying, "I have felt pain, and no matter
>what you do to me, I will withstand."

    I have to say, I agree with at least this first part you wrote...  I've
noticed "here and there" that many younger people (and others, but the trend
seems to be more visible in younger people) seem to love coming across as
angst-y, and angry, and disaffected, and other attitudes in a similar vein.
Now, before anybody gets offended, and yells at me, please keep in mind that
I'm not naming names here, and I'm also not accusing any specific person of
acting like this.  I have no way of telling what's genuine and what's affect
beyond what I'm allowed to see, but as I said, it *seems to me*, that some
younger people *seem to love* coming across this way.  And here, I don't
mean to sound like a preachy old man (I'm only 23, really.  I have the
driver's license to prove it.  :), although I'm sure that's how I sound.  I
enjoyed my share of teen angst when I was a bit younger, too.  Nobody had it
worse than me, I hated myself, I hated everybody else, I hated school, etc.
etc.  In my case, it was mostly affectation, and I get the feeling that it's
that way for a lot of people.

    With a little perspective (and hopefully, a little more maturity) under
my belt, I can say that there really are worse ways to live than to have
unmanageable hair, or to have 10 extra pounds hanging around on your body,
or to have crooked teeth, or to have to wear glasses (Something one of my
friends always hated, and still does hate... "I look so stupid."  My
response:  "So what?  Would you rather look stupid, and be able to see, or
look stupid, and walk into things?"), or whatever else you hate about
yourself.  What it comes down to is this:  Most people look average.  Most
people are of average intelligence.  Most people have average personalities.
After all, that is the very definition of average - if you picked 3000
people at random out of the population of the US, you'd probably find 2500
people you have a lot in common with, 300 people you have a fair amount in
common with, and 200 people you don't have much in common with.

    This is NOT to say that everybody is average in every way, however -  at
the risk of sounding like a motivational speaker, everybody has at least one
exceptional quality.  :)  Some people are gifted in one way, some people are
gifted in others - I have a friend who can do just about any math problem
you choose to plunk down in front of him;  On the other hand, I have a knack
for planning & organizing things, and I can remember song lyrics like
nobody's business, but I have always hated and struggled with math.
Everybody has something they're good at, and that they can do better than
most other people (granted, talent for doing math, organizing stuff, and
remembering song lyrics when you're not much of a singer isn't in especially
high demand... :).  I'm very comfortable being average looking, and of
average intelligence, because I know there's stuff out there that I can do
better than anybody else (nyah nyah :), and I know there's stuff out there
that other people can do infinitely better than I can.

    So, instead of reveling in our "imperfections", I think it might be a
good idea to revel in what we each do well, and in what exceptional
qualities we have.  That is what makes us individuals.  And again, maybe
this attitude of mine is due to a bit of perspective and a bit of maturity
gained over the past few years... but - LOTS of people have crooked teeth;
LOTS of people wear glasses;  LOTS of people are a little overweight;  LOTS
of people don't have perfect hair - NOT everybody can write well, or listen
well, or sing well, or run fast, or whatever else it is you do really well.
(This is not to say you should be satisfied with your imperfections,
however - you should always work to better yourself... but, don't dwell on
the imperfections, and always always always celebrate the good stuff.)

    The part where I disagree with Sue's post, is when she writes:

>And perhaps being imperfect is not
>simply a way of fighting down societies expectations, but a way of
>finding our own niche, and individuality in our contortions of pain.

    I think we can safely assume that everybody's imperfect in some way...
as a result, I don't think there's all that much individuality to be had in
yelling to the whole world, "LOOK AT ME!  I AM IMPERFECT!"  The proper,
resounding response to that proclamation should be, "Yeah?  So are we."
Define yourself as a unique individual by proclaiming what you do well, not
by proclaiming what makes you like everybody else.

        A man said to the universe:
        "Sir, I exist!"
        "However," replied the universe,
        "The fact has not created in me
        "A sense of obligation."

            -- Stephen Crane (A Man Said To The Universe)

    In other words, don't expect a whopping response from an audience when
you tell them the painfully obvious.  :)

    Kevin

- ----------
Kevin Pease                              kbpease@boston.crosswinds.net
(ICQ UIN:  3106063)             (AOL Instant Messenger:  kbpease)
                  http://www.crosswinds.net/boston/~kbpease
"Well if I were an angel, I could fly over Jordan,
  and I wouldn't need no Greyhound to save my soul,
  but maybe that's a good thing, 'cause I'll be home before I know it,
  And if I was an angel, I'd have a long way to go..."
     --(Matraca Berg)--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:28:49 -0500
From: zerocool@sunlink.net (Niki)
Subject: ET: some poems

Untitled

Peace love and happiness
Anger hate and war
A world in a mess
Everyone wanting more
Romeos and Juliets unite
And become one tonite
While we pray for your souls
Pray for the good to fill the dark holes
Everyone will find someone
Everyone will find a friend
We will all have won
When it comes to and end


***What do you guys think of this one...I don't know about it... Does
anyone have any ideas about what it means? It's one of the very few poems
that I have written that rhymes...I just kinda picked up the pencil and out
this poem came...I was like 'Wow this is kewl'  Does that happen with you
guys? I am curious as to know how everyone writes poems and stuff.


When Snow Falls

When snow falls I remember
You and those endless summer days we spent together
Days where the sun shone brightly
And would shimmer on the surface of the pool
Of water that I am looking into
Everything was bright and warm
It seemed nothing could go wrong
And that we would be together for a long time to come
But now as I look into the water
The days shorten and darken
And the sun that was once so warm
Grows colder with every passing minute
The water freezes and the sun
Glints violently off of the water's surface
You and I now sit and look
At each other from opposite ends of the room
Each with eyes of ice
Not showing feelings or thought
But underneath the ice
The water runs hot
And I am thinking of you
And you are thinking of me

When snow falls
And the water turns to ice
I remember you.

***Obviously I didn't write this one recently...it was a poem that we had
to write for school and I wanted ta know what you all thought about it.

TIME (this is my favorite)

Where does time go
When it is all over?
Is it recycled and reborn again?
Is it a constant thing
That is always here
And never goes anywhere?
Or does time simply vanish
What it is over?
Whatever it does
We cannot leave it
But one day we will
Start to fade away
With time
Then we will leave
With time
And only then will we
Know for sure
Where time goes.

***This one is my favorite...I just think that the whole concept of time
is...uh...I guess something to be thought about. And I would also like to
add along with this poem that you should all just go out and do what you
want to do before you can't do it anymore...don't let other people run you.
Just be yourself and do your own thing because if you don't, you are always
going to wonder 'what if?'

That is it for now...

*^*Niki*^*

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 19:07:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Seth Fulmer <kaosking@voicenet.com>
Subject: Re: ET: Re: all the posts on eda-thoughts-digest V1 #118

On Tue, 18 Aug 1998 Angeljlb96@aol.com wrote:
> First off...how many times have I read "she looks like barbie?"  Do I have to
> remind you peeps of Barbie's measurements? 36-18-34...ummm...hello?  you'd be
> dead!

I see what you mean(about Barbie)...but in the same point, I am 5'4" and I
weigh 170 something.  I have aspirations of weighing 100 lbs.  My parents,
friends, and family tell me that I'd die from it, but I know more than
anything that I could live through Armagheddon(the event, not the movie)
and smile to tell about it, so being 100 lbs at 5'4" won't kill me.

> Now, SETH, dear...we gotta talk.  There's a fine line between "grooming" or
> "prepping up" and downright skankiness (not that I'm calling you a skank dear,
> but I think you'll get the point).  Now...if a guy came to my
> door....ESPECIALLY for prom...with messy hair..unshaven...and horrible breath
> (see...this is the main thing, here)...ummm...ain't no way he's coming near
> me.  I don't look for a hot guy...but I do tend to look for a clean one.

Well, I was exaggerating in that aspect.  For the prom, I was shaved(to
the best of my ability...which isn't perfect, but I said before that I
don't care), hair combed, with my teeth brushed and mouth wash and the
whole kit and caboodle.  But like one time, my friend Andy's girlfriend
wanted to find out that me and the rest of his friends were "real" and not
stories.  I shaved and combed my hair specifically before going out(I even
kept him waiting for that)...and nobody noticed.  I'm like...Well, then
Why even try?

> you see...it's not about looking past to the personality completely.  I still
> think you're a great guy, but if you're downright repulsive...chances are
> you're gonna repulse me!

Well, again, I was slightly exaggerating, because if someone ignores me
then I don't care if she likes me any more.  I basically go out of my way
to make their lives h&##.  One girl came on ICQ...saw my picture and
proceeded to insult me...so because I wasn't in the mood at the time to
just take it...I went and made her life a real difficulty.

 > Why did you and Becky decide not to meet? 

We decided not to meet because she had said that she had met someone once
frome the internet and it seemed weird.  Then I thought about it and how
when you meet people in real life, physical appearance makes a BIG
diference sometimes...If I found after a while that I liked her
personality...if I went there and found her to be not the "barbie" I
expected...then it might crush me.  There's a girl Ashlee on my ICQ list
from SC who continually bugs me to go down so we can get to meet each
other.  Besides the fact that she's not that attractive(as of now, that
doesn't make any difference...I've known her for almost a year)...but she
smokes(a BIG no-no in my book) and she now drinks and she's really turning
out to be a person I don't want to know.  I wouldn't mind meeting Becki
some time but she requested not to...or I'd probably call her
up one night..but she's against that even.

<<Actually, it was quite nice Jaime :) Send more! > > > > Thanks, Seth,
and so I shall.
> 
> See now you're doing this "I'm god-awful looking" thing again...we really have
> to talk about this sweetie.  I mean...you're no Steve Poltz, but you're no
> Steve Poltz (Seth...do you get that sweetie?  remember our conversation
> yesterday? ;-))  Just try a little harder to not get so down on yourself,
> dear.

I remember and I know what you're saying :)  But I guess my "depression"
stems from the fact that I'm a perfectionist.  I want my future wife to be
a true goddess who is an angel in personality and I want myself to be
the perfect god just so that her reputation isn't flawed by being
associated with me.
 
> > JON...see now you got everyone thinking I'm obsessed with you again!
> Sheesh...whatever shall I do with you??!?!?!  <<f*ck me gently with a
> chainsaw. :)>.
> whatever you psycho...I mean, how would one go about even attempting that,
> really?

Oh..You don't know how to do that?  That's a Cinch!! :)  It's fun...you
gotta try it some time...*just messing around* :)

> *NOTE TO LIST* I'm not obsessed with Jon...I just wanna jump on him.

LOL!  and the difference is?

> See...I'm totally agreeing with Ben here.  Everything on this list on this
> thread so far has been "makeup sucks...blah blah blah" (and need I mention
> Seth's post I responded to up above).  I think it's okay to fix yourself up.
> I know...I rarely ever do it, but when I do I feel really good about myself.
> When I look great...I feel great.

Yeah...but don't you feel like you're lying to people wearing makeup?  I
mean...When I saw Jewel the first time...it was at the MTV Movie Awards
and she sang Foolish Games.  Seeing her there, I thought that she really
looked like that and was REALLY surprised when I saw her in a magazine
article one time without makeup.  Being in theatre in High School, I know
how much make up they put on there and I now can see pretty much through
the makeup in people.  All I see is a good person with a lot of
imperfection.  
	I guess most of my complaints this entire debate(whatever)
is not about my appearance because I've learned what society wants.  I'm
not fat, so all I need to do is the regular grooming.  I am going bald
genetically but I fix that by wearing a hat...When I'm not wearing a hat,
I'm really self conscious because I'm a 20(almost 21) year old who's going
bald.  But my complaints pretty much are on my personality.  I guess Iris
by GooGoo Dolls fits me best.  I have parts of me which scare even me and
I don't want people to see them.  Anyhow, you know where I'm coming from.
I just am unsettled as to both what I want in life and how I feel about
what I get.  Take care and Have a Great Day!! :)

------------------------------

End of eda-thoughts-digest V1 #122
**********************************