From: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org (eda-thoughts-digest) To: eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Subject: eda-thoughts-digest V1 #118 Reply-To: eda-thoughts@smoe.org Sender: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-eda-thoughts-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk eda-thoughts-digest Monday, August 17 1998 Volume 01 : Number 118 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: ET: realization ["Seth D. Fulmer" ] Re: ET: beauty ["Seth D. Fulmer" ] ET: This damn beauty thread [JonBoy911@aol.com] ET: hi [moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Us)] ET: physical beauty [genben@usa.net] ET: *me* ["Jennifer Greeley" ] Subject: ET: Fw: Confusion & Self: A Social Commentary [ib-3@juno.com (Is] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 00:44:46 -0400 From: "Seth D. Fulmer" Subject: Re: ET: realization At 04:38 PM 8/16/98 -0700, Jan Winters wrote: >here's the thing, it boils down to expectations. if i'm "pretty" and >popular and smart and all those great, lets go out and achieve them but >never can things, then peoples expectations of me are going >to rise. i have this really pretty friend, she looks like barbie. she >wears lots of makeup, has long permed blond hair, perfect tanned skin, >she is swimsuit model material. well last night we were talking and she >asked why i wear this one pair of jeans, that it doesn't show my ass. >but i'm telling you, i've had these jeans for years now and i live in >them. they are great. sure, a guy was stopping by her house and she was >busy putting on makeup and i was busy searching for some candy in her >room, but the thing is this dude that was going over to her house wasn't >gonna expect to see me all dazzled up for just his lousy arrival, of >course he would expect her to be. BUT I'M THE ONE THAT HAS THE CRUSH ON >HIM. so basicaly, what i'm saying is, we get these weird expectations of >people, and i think in a lot of ways i'm scared of people expecting me >too look great all the time. sure, prom i looked good and now and then i >look real nice. but not all the time, its a special treat to see me >dazzeled up. it's just another ordinary day to see my barbie lookalike >friend dazzled up. I know what you're saying about you thinking society has these expectations about you...I know I think them all the time and most of the time I care about them too...but like the times that they really matter, it seems those are the times I care the least. I'm always complaining to my parents that nobody will ever like me because I make the devil die of agony from sight of me...but then like when I went to the prom, and when I went out with my friends and my one friend's girlfriend was along, my mom was telling me to do all this grooming stuff and I'm telling her "Why do I care how she sees me? If she can't see past dishevelled hair, half-groomed beard(that should have been shaved a week and a half ago), a pimple the size of St. Louis underneath my nose on my lip and a breath that would knock a drunk cowboy off his horse from across the country, then she doesn't deserve to be my friend, much less like me as more." Then, we get into this huge argument for like 10 minutes and I end up going looking semi-decent...but still...I guess I'm saying that in one aspect I care what I look like and will make myself look like a greek god for a woman if necessary(that's a miracle in itself), but at the same time I will almost go to the opposite degree and make myself outright repulsive just to see if the lady will see past the repulsion to my personality(which like almost never happens in reality). :) Seth Fulmer A.K.A. "The Angel that thinks too much" mailto:kaosking@voicenet.com Cool Quote of the Day/week/timeperiod of your choice: "And I'm sorry I didn't always have a match That could start a fire big enough for your heart to catch." - Jewel Kilcher ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 01:07:10 -0400 From: "Seth D. Fulmer" Subject: Re: ET: beauty At 07:01 PM 8/16/98 EDT, Angeljlb96@aol.com wrote: >I agree. Society is getting better at looking on the inside, but I met a guy >named Billy once off the internet, and I went to the movies with him and >Laura...well...he told Jon "let's just say that's a really good picture of >her", so I got really upset about it. Now I never really considered myself >ugly...but I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm pretty. I have my >flaws...pimples, crooked teeth (that I'm REALLY sensitive about), way too >skinny...ya know...but when I got upset and I was talking to a few friends >(Jon, Justin, Ryan) in a chat room...they all kinda went off on me about how >great I was...and it really helped. I can tell I'm maturing in that way >because looks don't seem to matter to me anymore, whether it's a guys, or my >own! When I first started talking to Seth on ICQ...I asked him if he had a >pic...and he warned me about it...and I thought, God...how horrible...to feel >you have to do that! I don't really know what I'm getting at...I guess...just >saying you gotta meet the right people, bc there's always bound to be assholes >who can't look past a pretty face. Well, I've even noticed in myself that if I meet someone online, I know their personality. If I meet someone in real life, I'm meeting their physically attractive side. November of 1996 I met a girl on ICQ named Christina. I added her to my contact list just out of boredom and I wanted to meet people(but I had more of an alternative motive as well). My first impression of her was seriously "Why did I add her? She's either a retard or she's lying about her age...She has the brain function of a 2 year old." I however don't have it in me to be rude...If I'm rude and someone lets me know about it, I'll do whatever I can to correct the matter most of the time. I stayed through the conversation and talked to her. I figured at the time that I wouldn't have to talk to her ever again after that time and when she logged on, I just basically ignored her entrance(instead of saying "Hi"). The next day she said Hi to me...After a while, I realized that my perspective needed serious adjustment. I basically said to myself "Seth, why do you have to either intensely love or reject a person? Can't you just be nice to them as human beings". I also have a friend named Becky who I met on AOL(AIM) and who we decided never to call or meet...but I can talk to her about pretty much anything(even some stuff I wouldn't talk about to my male friends back home). For both Becky and Christina, when I saw their pictures it didn't affect me that much. On the other hand, I met a friend Heather at a fraternity(Alpha Phi Omega) convention January of 1997...She's a brother at another chapter. Just so you know, Alpha Phi Omega is a Nationally Coed Service Fraternity. I met her and stupid me, I like went after her right away almost like a wolf towards fresh meat. Before leaving she gave me a hug and her email address. I emailed her right away and asked her out...Duh Seth...She's got a boyfriend back home...She was content with being friends as I found out later, but still...every conversation I have with her on ICQ...It's like I can't get the stupid thoughts out of my head...I'd really like to think of her as a friend but as I've been trying to point out...society puts ideas into people's heads that physical appearance over inside beauty. Even now, if I see someone that's not so attractive, if she's with someone(or a group)...then I'll avoid her, but if she's alone...I go over and talk to her just to be nice sometimes(or I might be lonely and need to talk to someone)...But if she's beautiful...In a group, I'll go and hang with the group...With only 1 other person(female) or alone...hang with her...With only 1 other person(male)...avoid her. But even so, sometimes I find that the "beautiful people" are the ones I hate the most and the ones who are "ugly"(used in the stereotypical term) but yet who are happy about themselves somewhat are nice to be with. Ok, time to stop babbling :) Good Night! :) >Hope you guys liked it =) Actually, it was quite nice Jaime :) Send more! Seth Fulmer A.K.A. "The Angel that thinks too much" mailto:kaosking@voicenet.com Cool Quote of the Day/week/timeperiod of your choice: "And I'm sorry I didn't always have a match That could start a fire big enough for your heart to catch." - Jewel Kilcher ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 01:40:12 EDT From: JonBoy911@aol.com Subject: ET: This damn beauty thread Everyone else has their 2 cents in, so why can't I add mine? I don't feel ugly, or dumb, I feel alone. Jamie tells me I am great and I say thanks but what I need is someone near me to think so, you know? JonBoy911: there is a strong sexual side to me, but in reality, I don't want sex in a relationship right now. Angeljlb96: so what do you want right now? JonBoy911: a person who I can confide into. a best friend, someone who is content with just cuddling and kissing. a person who makes me feel safe. one who makes me forget about the world when I am around her. someone just to say, "I care" and be there to smile when I think I am going to cry Angeljlb96: you're so great, Jon JonBoy911: maybe some day I will find someone who thinks the same. :) Angeljlb96: really...you're so great. I wish you knew that JonBoy911: I don't think I am great. I think I am normal. It's what I know. I just need someone who looks at me and sees what I am and want's to know me. JonBoy911: all my "friends" know are sex and drugs. Not me you know? JonBoy911: I need someone who cares enough to listen, I need someone I can trust and tell all to and not worry about being judged Angeljlb96: so I think everyone in St. Louis (with the exception of a one Mr. Jon Hamilton) are assholes because they don't see how great you are. And I'm done, so I'm gonna stop sounding like an idiot now. JonBoy911: thanks Jaime. :) see, it doesn't matter how "great" I am if no one around me notices. I have had my complete physical relationship, had my one night stand, had my "don't know her but she sure if fine", and had my desperate relationships, now I am ready for the real thing. I know what I want, set your standards high, or don't set them at all ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ OK, so I tried to do it without just quoting the conversation with Jamie, well f*ck me gently with a chainsaw. :) There you go,,,,,,my 2 cents. Jon PS- how long does the "new guy at school" attraction last? I am starting a new life so to speak on Aug. 31th and I want to know the numbers. :) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 23:08:29 -0700 From: moonsong@ix.netcom.com (Us) Subject: ET: hi Hey angulz, Today has been a totally weird day. Patience my angels I have a lot to catch up on. :) I will send the "poem about me" soon, it's late now, I have several, maybe I'll send them all and write a new one as well. Sam the ? angel It's not that my body deserves to die nor that my wrists deserve bruises nor that my neck be choked or hair ripped My soul should not try to harm me it cuts my nails to the quick this face displays innocence, this waist is too sensitive & my arm aches deep with what I've done It's not that my legs deserve to die or my eyes deserve to cry just that my soul's too enraged it is guilty, powerful & cruel & harms that which has done no wrong sm august 16 1998 ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ I almost killed you & then I stopped in horror Staring in terrifying anguish at what I had done a permanent bruise I soaked you in water & soothed your pain with o ils a rosemary balm & kisses I cannot believe, I am so guilty I wonder why I did it They say, inner turmoil I say, I would it were so easy If I do not stop myself, Soon, I will die, too And I cannot, will not, let that happen just as no rose thorn will puncture your purity no evil hate will engross me either I shall save us both before it is too late A hundred kisses will help, but it is the wind that will carry us away And, at last, we will be free SM August 16 1998 "Attempted" moonsong@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:19:48 From: genben@usa.net Subject: ET: physical beauty Hey, You know, James and I were talking about this whole physical beauty thing about a week or two ago, and I will tell you all what I told him. I think that OVERlooking the physical is a mistake, although it is important to look deeper into a person. All of the other things that make someone beautiful are important, also, maybe even more so, but I believe that the human body is unique for a reason. It is ridiculous of us to deny our desires and attractions, and it is also unhealthy. To truly be able to see the depth of another person, you must first come to terms with your own feelings. If you aren't attracted to someone who isn't physically attractive, or you are attracted to someone who is gorgeous, that doesn't make you bad, it just is a feeling that arises from a primal need to mate. There are reasons that certain traitsare considered attractive, and some of them are cultural and some are natural. don't be fooled, it's okay to want to look good. It's okay to put ti9me into your appearance. It's okay to care, and it's okay to look for that in other people. It's been my experience that those who are comfortable with the way they look are the most attractive, regardless of what their actual appearance may be. Just come to terms with how you look and don't complain about it. Also, if you really want people to accept your entire self, then you must start by looking into other people and finding out about their secondary traits, and it doesn't help to bitch about how other people don't look beyond your appearance. Only you can start the revolution. Down with cosmetics! Ben ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:03:33 PDT From: "Jennifer Greeley" Subject: ET: *me* Hey all. I haven't posted anything in a while, but thought i would add to the *me* thread.. I'm going to do this in paragraph form, as i haven't written any poetry in a long time. (which is why i haven't posted).. This may become long.. *ME* I'm a mere 18. Young, and naive about the world still. I'm quiet, isolated, and rather self- contained. To others I may seem mature, serious, and emotionally detached. But I am a dreamer. I get carried away in fairy tale like dreams that will never happen. I would rather sit alone any where than spend time with groups of people. I'm not beautiful, though many have told me different. I'm 5'5", below average in the world. I have straight, thin, scraggly dark hair, with dark mixed eyes that I wouldn't trade for the world. With that comes my light pale skin that can't tan. My Indian roots couldn't come fully. I have the dark features that make me look mysterious with the light skin that makes me look sickly. I always have dark rings around my eyes no matter how much sleep I get. My child hood made me who I am. I was abused as a older child and as a teen by various people. I cant say no even if the entire time I cry. I can't maintain a serious relationship no matter how much I try. I have thought about suicide many times, attempted twice, and would have another time if I wasn't caught before the act. 4 dozen pills were lying around my room waiting to take their effect. I can't remember where half of them came from, but they were there and the letters were written. Day light is my worst enemy. Night is my companion. Day time scares me and it forces me to face the world. At night, I can dream again with the stars as my only witness. I can't do things right, even if I think I have. My marks are high to the average person, but never good enough for me. I worry too much about university money and the future. I worry that I won't live up to my family's standards. I'm afraid of many things, but the main is of myself. I'm afraid of the everyday world as I don't belong here. Many people tell me that I belong in the 1600's as I would fit there. I also get told that I fit in the 1970's. Maybe because I like the hippy days. I tend to get overly depressed about things. I hate bringing it out on people. I hide most emotions as I am afraid of reactions. I do love life, and I try to be happy so that I can live for longer. I have my animals that I love dearly. My two adorable cats, my wild puppy, and my scared baby rat. I have found a love that does understand me, but he leaves tomorrow to go home for nearly a month and I haven't even known him 3 weeks. My parents don't understand me. They think I'm too young to enjoy the world. They don't think I know what love is. And they think I am too depressed for a girl my age. My brother is over protective of me, as my father is. But that's the normality in my life. I work, I play, I am only human. And therefore, I follow the rules of life. I am who I am, and I won't change for anyone. I have both up and down days. I look at myself poorly for I have low self worth. Someday I will bring it up, and will like what I see in the mirror. Till then, I am just *ME* — J.L.G. August 17 1998 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:58:00 -0500 From: ib-3@juno.com (Issac J Brogdon) Subject: Subject: ET: Fw: Confusion & Self: A Social Commentary Thought that I'd stick my foot in here,,, I'm not a dietician, but for all of you people out there worrying about your weight,,, a) try not to eat constantly. stick to meals at certain times of the day, not meal, snack, snack, meal go meal, meal, meal b) BALANCED DIET we all heard about it in grade school. it's true. it's not the food that makes you gain weight, it's the candy bar. stick to your veggies, folks c) it's not what you weigh weight is over emphasized. i weigh 120 lbs, but I look like I weigh about 80. I have a high muscle mass,,,i.e, a lot of compact, heavy muscle, as opposed to space consuming, pugy fat _______90s Woman_______ Do you wear your designer dresses to social gatherings because you look good in it or because it was on sale Do you drive your misttibuishi eclipse and put the top down or conservatively take your curves at 25 When you count your calories do you stop at 1500 or enjoy that last candy bar? When you go to a movie with your new hubby do you still kiss him like you used to or just make a restrained comment about the acting? Well, I tell you what, the next time you take one those quizes in Seventeen or YM, ask yourself why,,, <><><><> - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 01:56:24 -0400 From: "Nina Edlund" Subject: ET: Fw: Confusion & Self: A Social Commentary 'I'm ugly. I'm fat. I'm stupid.' I can't speak for the guys, since .. being a woman .. I am unfamiliar with their perspective. Although, I suppose, following that logic, I can't speak for -anyone- as I am unfamiliar with any person's perspective aside from my own. So here it is, like it or not... The world is a confusing place. The mixed messages we receive are unreal. I was watching 'Leeza' one day, the topic being anorexia. The whole hour was devoted to this girl who weighed under 70 lbs. A vision of death. The audience was horrified, Leeza was gravely sympathetic in the false, patronizing way that talk-show hosts are, and the young girl was unaware of her morbid demise. And the advertisement when they went to commerical break? Weight Watchers. I kid you not. The society we live in, on one hand, tells us to be healthy. On the other, it tells us the only way to true happiness is through beauty and that beauty equals thin. In almost every women's magazine, there are at least one set of instructions on how to lose weight. How can one decide for themselves what is right? Too much is expected of children these days, kids being forced to grow up before they are given the proper tools to be able to believe in themselves. 'I'm fat .. I'm ugly' has become the sad mantra of the 90s woman, existence shaping her to believe her only salvation is in something that will eventually be reduced to sags and wrinkles in the end. <><><><> _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ End of eda-thoughts-digest V1 #118 **********************************