From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V16 #1492 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Friday, September 4 2015 Volume 16 : Number 1492 To unsubscribe: e-mail ecto-digest-request@smoe.org and put the word unsubscribe in the message body. Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Miley on Ecto? [Gregory Bossert ] Re: Miley on Ecto? [Gregory Bossert ] Re: Miley on Ecto? [Sue Trowbridge ] Re: Miley on Ecto? [Bernie Mojzes ] Re: Miley on Ecto? [neile ] Re: Miley on Ecto? [Kerry White ] New Jewel ["jhanson21@comcast.net" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 11:54:28 -0700 From: Gregory Bossert Subject: Re: Miley on Ecto? Sue, I have no problem with insightful discussions on ecto of topics like cultural appropriation and the impact of public performances and personas on our society. But since there is already such glut of these sorts of discussions on social media and in the press, I'd hope that if they occur here, they are really adding something interesting to the topic and to the ecto list. On my part, I see most childhood pop stars as the survivors of a particularly horrible, horrifically public sort of abuse, in which a big chunk of the media and society as a whole is complicit, and who often continue to be in damaging relationships with people who make money off of them, whether they succeed or fail. Sure, it can be great catalyst for discussion of some complex social issues, but I don't see much use for negative criticism of Cyrus herself (or of any similar groomed-since-childhood pop star). - -- www.gregorynormanbossert.com -- - -- www.suddensound.com -- > On Sep 3, 2015, at 11:22 AM, Sue Trowbridge wrote: > > I realize that I'm almost alone here in disagreeing that what Miley wears > and says are insignificant and that we should just focus on the music. But > I think the way she presents herself IS important. Her fake dreadlocks were > perhaps not the smartest thing to wear for someone who has been criticized > for cultural appropriation during her last VMAs performance. There's some > interesting food for thought here: > http://thinkprogress.org/culture/2015/08/31/3696969/dont-play-with-me-nicki-minaj-miley-cyrus-and-the-vmas/ > http://jezebel.com/on-miley-cyrus-ratchet-culture-and-accessorizing-with-514381016 > > I think her constant talk about weed-smoking goes along with that... it's > the privilege of being young, rich & white and being able to brag about > something that thousands of less-privileged people are currently sitting in > jail for doing. > > I think it's fine to enjoy Miley's music, but I think it's possible to like > her music AND wish that she presented herself differently. I mean, I still > listen to Beck, but I wish he wasn't a Scientologist because of his > church's long history of abuse and exploitation. > > --Sue > > On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Ella McCrystle > wrote: > >> Kerry took the links right out of my mouth. Those Backyard Sessions are >> what made me realize what an innate musicality and really beautiful voice >> she has. I also cannot forget the way this person grew up - as the child of >> a star and a child-star. Could not be easy to find oneself in all of that, >> and I suspect she is in the process still. If only we all could grow up >> gracefully. Thank goodness nobody was watching me! >> >> >>> On Aug 31, 2015 11:19 PM, "Kerry White" wrote: >>> >>> This, too: >>> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSpkaBeZckY >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 10:13 PM, Kerry White >>> wrote: >>> >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOwblaKmyVw >>>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 9:47 PM, Sue Trowbridge >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I will check out her album, but I wish she wasn't so "tryin' to be >>> edgy, >>>>> y'all!" with her near-nudity ( >>>>> http://www.gofugyourself.com/vmas-wtf-miley-cyrus-08-2015 has a pretty >>>>> amazing slideshow) and constant references to pot smoking. Yawn, we get >>>>> it, >>>>> you're not a Disney girl anymore. >>>>> >>>>> --Sue >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 7:30 PM, Tom Proven >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I actually enjoyed the cover she did (with Ariana Grande) of Crowded >>>>>> House's Don't Dream It's Over. As weird and poppy as she might be, I >>>>> think >>>>>> she really digs music. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m2ua3O_fdCY >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, August 31, 2015, robert bristow-johnson < >>>>>> rbj@audioimagination.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 8/31/15 12:36 PM, Tim Jones-Yelvington wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Y'all are going to think I'm CRAZY, but the Flaming Lips-produced >>>>>>>> surprise/free streaming album that Miley Cyrus just dropped is >>>>> actually >>>>>>>> kind of great, and ecto-friendly. I can't stop listening: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://mileycyrus.com/andherdeadpetz >>>>>>> dunno if i'll ever be able to take her totally seriously; >>> http://www.tmrzoo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/mylie-cyrus-commando-uncensored.jpg >>>>>>> http://www.forbiciate.com/gallery/miley-cyrus-senza-slip-le-foto/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> i'll admit she's cute and i'll check out the music. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> r b-j rbj@audioimagination.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Imagination is more important than knowledge." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 08:24:15 -0700 From: Gregory Bossert Subject: Re: Miley on Ecto? It's worth remembering that Ms. Cyrus had her childhood taken from her by her family, no doubt a host of hangers-on, and the Disney Corporation, well before she had the knowledge or power to make her own decisions. Regardless of the artistic quality of her early TV shows, music, and performances, the effort and time involved would have been tremendous, and would have come at the cost of time spent on education or play or normal social interaction. I've also got to say I don't find photos of her exposed crotch or a comparison of the bras of Madonna and Lady Gaga add anything useful to conversation, or are at all in the spirit of the ecto mailing list. Whether or not you like their music, performances, or public personas, Madonna and Lady Gaga are both woman who have taken and kept control of their own careers, in a business where young men and women are propped up like puppets as the latest pop idols and then disposed of, dead or alive, once their popularity fades. - -- www.gregorynormanbossert.com -- - -- www.suddensound.com -- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 11:22:49 -0700 From: Sue Trowbridge Subject: Re: Miley on Ecto? I realize that I'm almost alone here in disagreeing that what Miley wears and says are insignificant and that we should just focus on the music. But I think the way she presents herself IS important. Her fake dreadlocks were perhaps not the smartest thing to wear for someone who has been criticized for cultural appropriation during her last VMAs performance. There's some interesting food for thought here: http://thinkprogress.org/culture/2015/08/31/3696969/dont-play-with-me-nicki-minaj-miley-cyrus-and-the-vmas/ http://jezebel.com/on-miley-cyrus-ratchet-culture-and-accessorizing-with-514381016 I think her constant talk about weed-smoking goes along with that... it's the privilege of being young, rich & white and being able to brag about something that thousands of less-privileged people are currently sitting in jail for doing. I think it's fine to enjoy Miley's music, but I think it's possible to like her music AND wish that she presented herself differently. I mean, I still listen to Beck, but I wish he wasn't a Scientologist because of his church's long history of abuse and exploitation. - --Sue On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Ella McCrystle wrote: > Kerry took the links right out of my mouth. Those Backyard Sessions are > what made me realize what an innate musicality and really beautiful voice > she has. I also cannot forget the way this person grew up - as the child of > a star and a child-star. Could not be easy to find oneself in all of that, > and I suspect she is in the process still. If only we all could grow up > gracefully. Thank goodness nobody was watching me! > > > On Aug 31, 2015 11:19 PM, "Kerry White" wrote: > >> This, too: >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSpkaBeZckY >> >> On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 10:13 PM, Kerry White >> wrote: >> >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOwblaKmyVw >> > >> > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 9:47 PM, Sue Trowbridge >> > wrote: >> > >> >> I will check out her album, but I wish she wasn't so "tryin' to be >> edgy, >> >> y'all!" with her near-nudity ( >> >> http://www.gofugyourself.com/vmas-wtf-miley-cyrus-08-2015 has a pretty >> >> amazing slideshow) and constant references to pot smoking. Yawn, we get >> >> it, >> >> you're not a Disney girl anymore. >> >> >> >> --Sue >> >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 7:30 PM, Tom Proven >> wrote: >> >> >> >> > I actually enjoyed the cover she did (with Ariana Grande) of Crowded >> >> > House's Don't Dream It's Over. As weird and poppy as she might be, I >> >> think >> >> > she really digs music. >> >> > >> >> > http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m2ua3O_fdCY >> >> > >> >> > Tom >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On Monday, August 31, 2015, robert bristow-johnson < >> >> > rbj@audioimagination.com> >> >> > wrote: >> >> > >> >> > > On 8/31/15 12:36 PM, Tim Jones-Yelvington wrote: >> >> > > >> >> > >> Y'all are going to think I'm CRAZY, but the Flaming Lips-produced >> >> > >> surprise/free streaming album that Miley Cyrus just dropped is >> >> actually >> >> > >> kind of great, and ecto-friendly. I can't stop listening: >> >> > >> >> >> > >> http://mileycyrus.com/andherdeadpetz >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > dunno if i'll ever be able to take her totally seriously; >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> >> http://www.tmrzoo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/mylie-cyrus-commando-uncensored.jpg >> >> > > http://www.forbiciate.com/gallery/miley-cyrus-senza-slip-le-foto/ >> >> > > >> >> > > i'll admit she's cute and i'll check out the music. >> >> > > >> >> > > -- >> >> > > >> >> > > r b-j rbj@audioimagination.com >> >> > > >> >> > > "Imagination is more important than knowledge." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 16:52:44 +0000 (UTC) From: Bernie Mojzes Subject: Re: Miley on Ecto? Well said, Mssr. Bossert. Also worth remembering another woman whose career is integrally tied to imagery of her body, and whose original fame was outside the "serious musician" realm, Milla Jovovich, received a very warm welcome in the Ecto community when she released her album way back when. I suspect we're better served listening to the music, here, than focusing on the packaging. bernie On Thu, 3 Sep 2015, Gregory Bossert wrote: > It's worth remembering that Ms. Cyrus had her childhood taken from her > by her family, no doubt a host of hangers-on, and the Disney > Corporation, well before she had the knowledge or power to make her own > decisions. Regardless of the artistic quality of her early TV shows, > music, and performances, the effort and time involved would have been > tremendous, and would have come at the cost of time spent on education > or play or normal social interaction. > > I've also got to say I don't find photos of her exposed crotch or a > comparison of the bras of Madonna and Lady Gaga add anything useful to > conversation, or are at all in the spirit of the ecto mailing list. > > Whether or not you like their music, performances, or public personas, > Madonna and Lady Gaga are both woman who have taken and kept control of > their own careers, in a business where young men and women are propped > up like puppets as the latest pop idols and then disposed of, dead or > alive, once their popularity fades. > > -- www.gregorynormanbossert.com -- > -- www.suddensound.com -- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 11:52:29 -0700 (PDT) From: neile Subject: Re: Miley on Ecto? It's true--I feel the same way about artists and writers. My writing mentor Richard Hugo emphasized Valery's point that we create our art out of our best selves and that's all that matters. On some level you have to ignore the artist and look only at the art, but on others...well, there's a big area where personal life and especially personal presentation damages other people and I just don't want to support it. There are a lot of writers that I can't bear to read anymore because of their need to promote politics I find personally offensive (eg. Orson Scott Card whose work I used to love when I was a younger writer). I'm more ambivalent about personal presentation for effect (like Madonna, Lady Gaga, and now Miley Cyrus) but they themselves make it a part of their self-promotion and musical careers. It's a big question about whether that's healthy for their audience or themselves or not. And given the points Sue makes here, there's a lot to think and perhaps talk about. Though ecto generally tries to concern itself with the music, with some people it's difficult to entirely divide the art from the artist. - --Neile On Thu, 3 Sep 2015, Sue Trowbridge wrote: > I realize that I'm almost alone here in disagreeing that what Miley wears > and says are insignificant and that we should just focus on the music. But > I think the way she presents herself IS important. Her fake dreadlocks were > perhaps not the smartest thing to wear for someone who has been criticized > for cultural appropriation during her last VMAs performance. There's some > interesting food for thought here: > http://thinkprogress.org/culture/2015/08/31/3696969/dont-play-with-me-nicki-minaj-miley-cyrus-and-the-vmas/ > http://jezebel.com/on-miley-cyrus-ratchet-culture-and-accessorizing-with-514381016 > > I think her constant talk about weed-smoking goes along with that... it's > the privilege of being young, rich & white and being able to brag about > something that thousands of less-privileged people are currently sitting in > jail for doing. > > I think it's fine to enjoy Miley's music, but I think it's possible to like > her music AND wish that she presented herself differently. I mean, I still > listen to Beck, but I wish he wasn't a Scientologist because of his > church's long history of abuse and exploitation. > > --Sue > > On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Ella McCrystle > wrote: > >> Kerry took the links right out of my mouth. Those Backyard Sessions are >> what made me realize what an innate musicality and really beautiful voice >> she has. I also cannot forget the way this person grew up - as the child of >> a star and a child-star. Could not be easy to find oneself in all of that, >> and I suspect she is in the process still. If only we all could grow up >> gracefully. Thank goodness nobody was watching me! >> >> >> On Aug 31, 2015 11:19 PM, "Kerry White" wrote: >> >>> This, too: >>> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSpkaBeZckY >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 10:13 PM, Kerry White >>> wrote: >>> >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOwblaKmyVw >>>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 9:47 PM, Sue Trowbridge >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I will check out her album, but I wish she wasn't so "tryin' to be >>> edgy, >>>>> y'all!" with her near-nudity ( >>>>> http://www.gofugyourself.com/vmas-wtf-miley-cyrus-08-2015 has a pretty >>>>> amazing slideshow) and constant references to pot smoking. Yawn, we get >>>>> it, >>>>> you're not a Disney girl anymore. >>>>> >>>>> --Sue >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 7:30 PM, Tom Proven >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I actually enjoyed the cover she did (with Ariana Grande) of Crowded >>>>>> House's Don't Dream It's Over. As weird and poppy as she might be, I >>>>> think >>>>>> she really digs music. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m2ua3O_fdCY >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, August 31, 2015, robert bristow-johnson < >>>>>> rbj@audioimagination.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 8/31/15 12:36 PM, Tim Jones-Yelvington wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Y'all are going to think I'm CRAZY, but the Flaming Lips-produced >>>>>>>> surprise/free streaming album that Miley Cyrus just dropped is >>>>> actually >>>>>>>> kind of great, and ecto-friendly. I can't stop listening: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://mileycyrus.com/andherdeadpetz >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> dunno if i'll ever be able to take her totally seriously; >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> http://www.tmrzoo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/mylie-cyrus-commando-uncensored.jpg >>>>>>> http://www.forbiciate.com/gallery/miley-cyrus-senza-slip-le-foto/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> i'll admit she's cute and i'll check out the music. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> r b-j rbj@audioimagination.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Imagination is more important than knowledge." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 11:34:29 -0500 From: Kerry White Subject: Re: Miley on Ecto? So, excellent lip sync or good microphones and filtering software? On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 12:45 AM, Stephen Schiavo wrote: > FWIW, those backyard sessions donb t sound even a bit like they were > recorded in a backyard. > > > - Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 18:26:19 -0600 From: "jhanson21@comcast.net" Subject: New Jewel Streaming on pandora now... Definitely her best album to date though it's full of pain (which I always thought her albums needed a bit more of). Http://pdora.co/PickingUpThePieces Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V16 #1492 ****************************