From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V15 #83 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Tuesday, April 6 2010 Volume 15 : Number 083 To unsubscribe: e-mail ecto-digest-request@smoe.org and put the word unsubscribe in the message body. Today's Subjects: ----------------- Today's your birthday, friend... [Mike Matthews ] Manic Pixie Songwriting Dream Girls [Karen Hester ] Re: Manic Pixie Songwriting Dream Girls [Sarah Morayati Subject: Today's your birthday, friend... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ******************** Michael E. Bravo (mbravo@acm.org) ******************** *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Michael E. Bravo Mon April 05 1971 Dandelion Wine Brion McIntosh Sun April 06 1958 Aries Marcel Kshensky Thu April 06 1950 Aries Bill Mazur Mon April 06 1953 Aries Sun/Cancer Rising David Dixon Tue April 07 1970 Aries Heidi Heller Mon April 08 1974 Aries Jill Hughes Sat April 09 1955 Aries Klaus Kluge Sun April 10 1960 Unicorn Steve VanDevender Sun April 10 1966 Racer Art Liestman Fri April 10 1953 Repeat Stephen Golden Sat April 10 1971 Jokey Michael Bowman Wed April 11 1962 Aries Wolfgang Ullwer Fri April 11 1969 Widder Janet Kirsch Thu April 11 1974 Aries Kristen Scallion Fri April 12 1974 Aries Jerry Tue April 13 1971 Aries Stuart Myerburg Mon April 14 1969 Aries T-Bone Wed April 15 1992 happy cat Jeff Hanson Sat April 16 1966 Aries Michael Klouda Mon April 17 1967 Aries Noe Venable Tue April 20 1976 Aries Harry Foster Sat April 21 1956 NiceGuy Kjetil Torgrim Homme Thu April 23 1970 Taurus Jeff Burka Thu April 24 1969 GoFlyAKite Christine Waite Tue April 25 1972 Taurus Matt Adams Thu April 26 1962 Taurus Brad Hutchinson Tue April 28 1964 What sign? Geoff Parks Sun April 30 1961 Taurus Marty Lash Sat May 01 1948 Taurus Barney Parker Fri May 02 1986 happy cat Gray Abbott Tue May 03 1955 Suprised Tamar Boursalian Tue May 03 1966 Taurus - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 10:31:58 -0400 From: Karen Hester Subject: Manic Pixie Songwriting Dream Girls Worth a read for those interested in dismissive media coverage of talented female artists - http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2010/04/04/not-really-a-weekend-arts-section-manic-pixie-songwriting-dream-girls-a-history-in-youtube-and-published-slur/ Seeing all those descriptions together - ack - 'elfin, fairylike, whimsical, eccentric, childlike, batshit insane', 'quirky', 'kooky', 'instability, lunacy, and mental decrepitude. .. 'the warblings of some unearthly fairy princess. K. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 13:55:45 -0400 From: Aly Fields Subject: Re: Manic Pixie Songwriting Dream Girls Arrrrrr. Why are talented women so intimidating? On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:31 AM, Karen Hester wrote: > Worth a read for those interested in dismissive media coverage of > talented female artists - > > http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2010/04/04/not-really-a-weekend-arts-section-manic-pixie-songwriting-dream-girls-a-history-in-youtube-and-published-slur/ > > Seeing all those descriptions together - ack - 'elfin, fairylike, > whimsical, eccentric, childlike, batshit insane', 'quirky', > 'kooky', 'instability, lunacy, and mental decrepitude. .. 'the > warblings of some unearthly fairy princess. > > K. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 11:25:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Tim Jones-Yelvington Subject: Re: Manic Pixie Songwriting Dream Girls This article coming from Feministe, esp in combination w/ the Kate piece from Guardian, makes me very happy. I mean, not that this shit happens, but that other people are calling attention to it. A lot of feminist music writing has been more abt the women who rawk. Which is great -- I'm glad women rawk, but I also think there are a lot of wonderful women working in forms that have been unfairly maligned b/c they're feminized and I'm happy to see that shit called out. ~Tim - ----- Original Message ---- From: Aly Fields To: Karen Hester Cc: ecto@smoe.org Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 12:55:45 PM Subject: Re: Manic Pixie Songwriting Dream Girls Arrrrrr. Why are talented women so intimidating? On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:31 AM, Karen Hester wrote: > Worth a read for those interested in dismissive media coverage of > talented female artists - > > http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2010/04/04/not-really-a-weekend-arts-section-manic-pixie-songwriting-dream-girls-a-history-in-youtube-and-published-slur/ > > Seeing all those descriptions together - ack - 'elfin, fairylike, > whimsical, eccentric, childlike, batshit insane', 'quirky', > 'kooky', 'instability, lunacy, and mental decrepitude. .. 'the > warblings of some unearthly fairy princess. > > K. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 14:41:59 -0400 From: Aly Fields Subject: Re: Manic Pixie Songwriting Dream Girls Tim, I agree. Why are female artists who act contrary to the model of musical talent/success (male, cock-swinging, "rawk" musicians - although not to say this brand of femininity can't be subversive, it isn't inherently) infantilized or otherwise cheapened in terms of their talent and artistic output? On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Tim Jones-Yelvington wrote: > This article coming from Feministe, esp in combination w/ the Kate piece > from Guardian, makes me very happy. I mean, not that this shit happens, but > that other people are calling attention to it. A lot of feminist music > writing has been more abt the women who rawk. Which is great -- I'm glad > women rawk, but I also think there are a lot of wonderful women working in > forms that have been unfairly maligned b/c they're feminized and I'm happy > to see that shit called out. > > ~Tim > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Aly Fields > To: Karen Hester > Cc: ecto@smoe.org > Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 12:55:45 PM > Subject: Re: Manic Pixie Songwriting Dream Girls > > Arrrrrr. Why are talented women so intimidating? > > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:31 AM, Karen Hester >wrote: > > > Worth a read for those interested in dismissive media coverage of > > talented female artists - > > > > > http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2010/04/04/not-really-a-weekend-arts-section-manic-pixie-songwriting-dream-girls-a-history-in-youtube-and-published-slur/ > > > > Seeing all those descriptions together - ack - 'elfin, fairylike, > > whimsical, eccentric, childlike, batshit insane', 'quirky', > > 'kooky', 'instability, lunacy, and mental decrepitude. .. 'the > > warblings of some unearthly fairy princess. > > > > K. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 12:05:36 -0700 (PDT) From: neile Subject: Re: Manic Pixie Songwriting Dream Girls Except women who rock are also written about as though they are some weird almost-male female. They're granted conditional male status and they're talked about that way. It's pretty crazy. Is this 40 years after the rise of feminism or what? I suppose 40 years isn't much in the history of culture, but sometimes it feels like we're still in the Victorian Era. I would say in the Dark Ages, but I suspect things might have been better then in some ways. - --Neile On Mon, 5 Apr 2010, Aly Fields wrote: > Tim, > > I agree. Why are female artists who act contrary to the model of musical > talent/success (male, cock-swinging, "rawk" musicians - although not to say > this brand of femininity can't be subversive, it isn't inherently) > infantilized or otherwise cheapened in terms of their talent and artistic > output? > > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Tim Jones-Yelvington wrote: > > > This article coming from Feministe, esp in combination w/ the Kate piece > > from Guardian, makes me very happy. I mean, not that this shit happens, but > > that other people are calling attention to it. A lot of feminist music > > writing has been more abt the women who rawk. Which is great -- I'm glad > > women rawk, but I also think there are a lot of wonderful women working in > > forms that have been unfairly maligned b/c they're feminized and I'm happy > > to see that shit called out. > > > > ~Tim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 15:30:11 -0400 From: Sarah Morayati Subject: Re: Manic Pixie Songwriting Dream Girls This, and like I wrote about in my blog earlier today, the fact that the MPDG model is pretty much the ONLY one that's being pushed nowadays -- well, outside of pop stars and the Angry Women Spectres that don't exist anymore, haven't existed anymore for any given value of "anymore" and seem to be more set up as an opposition. Why do we even have to be talking about this? (Not criticizing ecto, criticizing the fact that this is still an issue, or even was one in the first place. Sigh.) On Mon, 5 Apr 2010 12:05:36 -0700 (PDT), neile wrote: > Except women who rock are also written about as though they are some weird > almost-male female. They're granted conditional male status and they're > talked about that way. > > It's pretty crazy. Is this 40 years after the rise of feminism or what? > I suppose 40 years isn't much in the history of culture, but sometimes it > feels like we're still in the Victorian Era. I would say in the Dark Ages, > but I suspect things might have been better then in some ways. > > --Neile > > On Mon, 5 Apr 2010, Aly Fields wrote: > >> Tim, >> >> I agree. Why are female artists who act contrary to the model of musical >> talent/success (male, cock-swinging, "rawk" musicians - although not to >> say >> this brand of femininity can't be subversive, it isn't inherently) >> infantilized or otherwise cheapened in terms of their talent and artistic >> output? >> >> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Tim Jones-Yelvington >> wrote: >> >> > This article coming from Feministe, esp in combination w/ the Kate >> > piece >> > from Guardian, makes me very happy. I mean, not that this shit happens, >> > but >> > that other people are calling attention to it. A lot of feminist music >> > writing has been more abt the women who rawk. Which is great -- I'm >> > glad >> > women rawk, but I also think there are a lot of wonderful women working >> > in >> > forms that have been unfairly maligned b/c they're feminized and I'm >> > happy >> > to see that shit called out. >> > >> > ~Tim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 13:09:43 -0700 From: Sue Trowbridge Subject: Re: Manic Pixie Songwriting Dream Girls First of all, I totally 100% feel that the fact that we're still talking about "women in rock" in 2010, decades after Joan Jett and Chrissie Hynde made their marks, is damn depressing. I was also tearing my hair out over the fact that Saturday Night Live has a "women in comedy" special coming up later this season. However, if you look at the coverage that some male artists get, it's not altogether different than what writers have said about Joanna. For instance, Devendra Banhart is often described as childlike, an airy-fairy hippie, fanciful, etc. I suspect that I could find similar things said about Conor Oberst or Antony & the Johnsons. I wonder if things are different in Europe? There is a pretty successful female fronted metal band from Sweden called Arch Enemy. I'd never heard of them until recently -- it's not my kind of music -- but they just toured the U.S. and did some interviews; here's one, and it's pretty interesting, although of course the writer asks about 10 different questions about "what it's like being a woman in metal": http://globalcomment.com/2010/arch-enemys-angela-gossow-im-the-boss/ "We should be past the days where you soap the car in the background of a video. Just dont do it. You dont have to any more." - --Sue On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 12:30 PM, Sarah Morayati wrote: > This, and like I wrote about in my blog earlier today, the fact that the > MPDG model is pretty much the ONLY one that's being pushed nowadays -- > well, outside of pop stars and the Angry Women Spectres that don't exist > anymore, haven't existed anymore for any given value of "anymore" and seem > to be more set up as an opposition. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 16:39:35 -0400 From: Sarah Morayati Subject: Re: Manic Pixie Songwriting Dream Girls That's a good point, but it's probably just a different manifestation of the same thing -- folks like Antony and the Johnsons, say, get press for being so damn *feminine* compared to those MANLY ROCK DUDES. - -Sarah On Mon, 5 Apr 2010 13:09:43 -0700, Sue Trowbridge wrote: > First of all, I totally 100% feel that the fact that we're still > talking about "women in rock" in 2010, decades after Joan Jett and > Chrissie Hynde made their marks, is damn depressing. I was also > tearing my hair out over the fact that Saturday Night Live has a > "women in comedy" special coming up later this season. > > However, if you look at the coverage that some male artists get, it's > not altogether different than what writers have said about Joanna. For > instance, Devendra Banhart is often described as childlike, an > airy-fairy hippie, fanciful, etc. I suspect that I could find similar > things said about Conor Oberst or Antony & the Johnsons. > > I wonder if things are different in Europe? There is a pretty > successful female fronted metal band from Sweden called Arch Enemy. > I'd never heard of them until recently -- it's not my kind of music -- > but they just toured the U.S. and did some interviews; here's one, and > it's pretty interesting, although of course the writer asks about 10 > different questions about "what it's like being a woman in metal": > http://globalcomment.com/2010/arch-enemys-angela-gossow-im-the-boss/ > "We should be past the days where you soap the car in the background > of a video. Just dont do it. You dont have to any more." > > --Sue > > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 12:30 PM, Sarah Morayati > wrote: >> This, and like I wrote about in my blog earlier today, the fact that the >> MPDG model is pretty much the ONLY one that's being pushed nowadays -- >> well, outside of pop stars and the Angry Women Spectres that don't exist >> anymore, haven't existed anymore for any given value of "anymore" and >> seem >> to be more set up as an opposition. ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V15 #83 **************************