From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V14 #171 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Thursday, June 25 2009 Volume 14 : Number 171 To unsubscribe: e-mail ecto-digest-request@smoe.org and put the word unsubscribe in the message body. Today's Subjects: ----------------- Today's your birthday, friends... [Mike Matthews ] =?windows-1252?B?UmU6IFJlOiA9P1VURi04P1E/UmU9M0FfdHdpdHRlcl9wPy A/d2luZG93cy0xMjUyP1E/bw==?= =?windows-1252?B?d2VyPTJDX29yXz1FMj04MD05Q2hvd19hbl9pbmRpZV9tdSBzaWMga WFuX2NfYW5fPz0gbWFrZSAkMTks?= =?windows-1252?B?MDAwIGluIDEwIGhvdXJzIHVzaW5nIHR3aXR0ZXKU?= [] Re: Label deals or not [Doug ] =?utf-8?B?UmU6ID0/VVRGLTg/UT9SZT0zQV90d2l0dGVyX2MgIGlhbl9jX2FuX z89ICBt?= =?utf-8?B?YWtlICQxOSwwMDAgaW4gMTAgaG91cnMgdXNpbmcgdHdpdHRlcuKAnQ==?= [] Amanda Twitter (sorry about mangled subject line) [Karen Hester ] =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_=3D=3Fwindows-1252=3FQ=3FRe=3D3A=5F=3D3? = =?windows-1252?Q?D=3D3Fwindows-1252=3D3FQ=3D3FRe=3D3D3A=3D5F=3D3D3=3F_ ?= =?windows-1252?Q?=3D_D=3D3FUTF-8=3D3FQ=3D3FRe=3D3D3A=3D5Ftwitter=3D5Fp ?= =?windows-1252?Q?=3F___=3D__=3D=3Fwindows-1252=3FQ=3Fower=3D3D?= =?windows-1252?Q?2C=3D5For=3D5F=3D3DE2=3D3D80=3D3D9Chow=3D5Fan=3D5Find ie?= =?windows-1252?Q?=3D5Fmu___si=3F=3D_c_ian=5Fc=5Fan=5F=3F=3D_?= =?windows-1252?Q?make_=2419=2C000_in_10_hours_using_twitter=94?= [] Thea Gilmour on labels vs Indie [birdie ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 03:00:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Matthews Subject: Today's your birthday, friends... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ********************** Dave Torok (no Email address) ********************** ******************** Ethan Straffin (no Email address) ******************** *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Dave Torok Mon June 24 1968 Cancer Ethan Straffin Thu June 24 1971 Cancer Kevin Dekan Mon June 27 1960 Cancer Samantha Tanner Tue June 30 1970 Wild Goose Henning Rech Fri July 01 1960 Cancer BunkyTom Tue July 02 1968 Cancer Anders Hallberg Tue July 03 1962 Cancer Kevin Harkins Thu July 05 1973 Cancer Laurel Krahn Mon July 05 1971 Cancer John J Henshon Mon July 05 1954 The Year Of The Horse / Ruled By The Moon Jim Gurley Mon July 06 1959 Cancer Lisa Rouchka Fri July 08 1960 Moonchild with Java Rising Courtney Dallas Fri July 09 1971 Catte Michael Peskura Sat July 09 1949 HallOfFamer Finney T. Tsai Sat July 09 1966 Cancer Larry Greenfield Tue July 11 1950 Virgo Rising; Gemini Moon Marion Kippers Tue July 13 1965 Kreeft Ellen Rawson Thu July 13 1961 Double Cancer Mitch Pravatiner Mon July 14 1952 Cancer R. Rapp Wed July 14 1954 On a Gray Eye Sojourn John Zimmer Sun July 16 1961 Cancer Dan Stark Sun July 16 1961 Cancer Kevin D. F. Highnight Thu July 17 1975 Cancer with Pisces Moon Cathy Guetzlaff Mon July 18 1955 Cancer Vlad Sat July 18 1970 Warning: severe tire damage Jani Pinola Thu July 20 1972 Jonquil - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 07:36:21 -0500 From: CollectedSounds Subject: =?windows-1252?B?UmU6IFJlOiA9P1VURi04P1E/UmU9M0FfdHdpdHRlcl9wPy A/d2luZG93cy0xMjUyP1E/bw==?= =?windows-1252?B?d2VyPTJDX29yXz1FMj04MD05Q2hvd19hbl9pbmRpZV9tdSBzaWMga WFuX2NfYW5fPz0gbWFrZSAkMTks?= =?windows-1252?B?MDAwIGluIDEwIGhvdXJzIHVzaW5nIHR3aXR0ZXKU?= Meredith wrote: > (and dating one of the most popular cult figures in the worlds of genre fiction, comics and film isn't hurting her one little bit on that front ... here's how dense I am....I have been following both their Tweets for months, have the album, want the book, been reading both their blogs for awhile, (tho not as much in the last few weeks) and I had NO idea. I thought they were just friends and collaborators. In fact, I thought he was married. Oh my denseness amazes me sometimes. Now that I think about their work together, and how much they talk about each other it's almost cute. :) - -- Amy Lotsberg Collected Sounds blog.collectedsounds.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:18:23 -0500 From: Doug Subject: Re: Label deals or not > Jill Sobule is the biggest indie success story at the moment Bigger than Ani DiFranco? Or is Ani old news? Regardless, she's still indie...right? - --Doug ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 07:18:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Tim Jones-Yelvington Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6ID0/VVRGLTg/UT9SZT0zQV90d2l0dGVyX2MgIGlhbl9jX2FuX z89ICBt?= =?utf-8?B?YWtlICQxOSwwMDAgaW4gMTAgaG91cnMgdXNpbmcgdHdpdHRlcuKAnQ==?= I think you need to think too about the kind of following she and dresden dolls have, which is itself pretty cultish.... and also a lot of young folks, who are more likely to be twittering. I think what she pulled off is pretty awesome, but I can't see it working much for some of our other favorite people... for instance, I doubt very many of Emily Bezar's 500 fans are twittering. ~tim - ----- Original Message ---- From: meredith To: ecto Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:29:28 PM Subject: Re: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_twitter_c ian_c_an_?= make $19,000 in 10 hours using twitterb Hi, Paul Blair wrote: > I think it's also that she's cashing in on the following she already has, > and the huge-ass ben-folds produced-major-label solo album is part (I have > no idea how significant) of why she has that following. It's entirely that she's cashing in on her existing following (and dating one of the most popular cult figures in the worlds of genre fiction, comics and film isn't hurting her one little bit on that front ... yeah, she may have "only" 33k+ followers on Twitter, but one RT from Mr. @neilhimself gets it out to almost 600,000 more). But I would wager that at least 90% of that following is Dresden Dolls fans who have followed her to her solo career. Roadrunner did very, very little to promote _Who Killed Amanda Palmer_ on their own, which is one of the many reasons why she wanted out of the deal. She proved that she could do it better herself. Meredith :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:45:35 -0400 From: Karen Hester Subject: Amanda Twitter (sorry about mangled subject line) Yeah, wot Meredith says. The 'major label' bit was probably Amanda being sarcastic since it's done her no good. Roadrunner had no major ties back when the Dresden Dolls signed and the first studio album was the biggest selling by far, wasn't it? Certainly outside of the US. Amanda and Brian got their following through great music, theatrical performances and Amanda's interaction with fans. To make a living Amanda's exploring all the different ways to interact with fans. She's such a social person that this works for her. Some musicians would feel uneasy with the intense personal interactions and prefer to use new technology to get their music out there, rather than to develop relationships. I'm sure all Amanda fans have seen her 'Please drop me' song ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMi7wRfmoMs). Delightful band names :) K ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:44:17 -0400 From: meredith Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_=3D=3Fwindows-1252=3FB=3FUmU6IFJlOiA9P1? = =?windows-1252?Q?VURi04P1E/UmU9M0FfdHdpdHRlcl9wPy__A/d2luZG93cy0xMjU?= =?windows-1252?Q?yP1E/bw=3D=3D=3F=3D__=3D=3Fwindows-1252=3FB=3Fd2VyP?= =?windows-1252?Q?TJDX29yXz1FMj04MD05Q2hvd19hbl9pbmRpZV9tdSBzaWMga__W?= =?windows-1252?Q?FuX2NfYW5fPz0gbWFrZSAkMTks=3F=3D__000_in_10_h?= =?windows-1252?Q?ours_using_twitter=94?= Hi, CollectedSounds wrote: > here's how dense I am....I have been following both their Tweets for months, > have the album, want the book, been reading both their blogs for awhile, > (tho not as much in the last few weeks) and I had NO idea. I thought they > were just friends and collaborators. In fact, I thought he was married. Wow, you missed the part where they each confirmed it a few weeks ago? *g* Tim Jones-Yelvington wrote: > I think you need to think too about the kind of following she and dresden dolls have, which is itself pretty cultish.... and also a lot of young folks, who are more likely to be twittering. > > I think what she pulled off is pretty awesome, but I can't see it working much for some of our other favorite people... for instance, I doubt very many of Emily Bezar's 500 fans are twittering. Right, exactly what I was saying. :) It's the snowball effect, for sure. Imogen Heap is also using Twitter to do many very good things, but again, she had a pretty big following to start with. I actually think Zoe Keating (@zoecello) is the real Twitter "success story" -- yeah, she was in Rasputina and toured with Amanda, but she's become one of the most-followed musicians on Twitter very organically, by being just plain interesting to read. - -- =============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth =============================================== hear at the HOMe House Concert Series http://hom.smoe.org =============================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:05:27 -0400 From: Anna Creech Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6ID0/VVRGLTg/UT9SZT0zQV90d2l0dGVyX2MgaWFuX2NfYW5fP z0gYWtlICQxOSwwMA==?= =?UTF-8?B?MCBpbiAxMCBob3VycyB1c2luZyB0d2l0dGVy4oCd?= Depends on what you mean by "young." Most Twitter users are 18-34 year olds. Twitter and similar services have been most avidly embraced by young adults. > Nearly one in five (19%) online adults ages 18 and 24 have ever used Twitter > and its ilk, as have 20% of online adults 25 to 34. Use of these services > drops off steadily after age 35 with 10% of 35 to 44 year olds and 5% of 45 > to 54 year olds using Twitter. The decline is even more stark among older > internet users; 4% of 55-64 year olds and 2% of those 65 and older use > Twitter. "Twitter and status updating" by Amanda Lenhart & Susannah Fox, Pew Research Center's Internet & American Life Project, February 2009 As for the topic... leveraging social media tools to generate income in a short period of time is notable, but it does not take into account the time spent cultivating the fan base and publicity that provides that income. I doubt that I, with my professional and friend network on Twitter and Facebook, could generate any income from those tools. The music industry seems to be cycling between the album, the live concert, and other merchandise as being the primary income for artists, whether they are independent or on a label. Those who have not found the right balance for giving away something free to get more income elsewhere are the ones who are floundering. Anna On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Tim Jones-Yelvington wrote: > and also a lot of young folks, who are more likely to be twittering. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 11:20:40 -0700 From: birdie Subject: Re: Label deals or not Jill is the 2.0 indie success story :-) Ani did it the old school way. On Jun 24, 2009, at 7:18 AM, Doug wrote: >> Jill Sobule is the biggest indie success story at the moment > > Bigger than Ani DiFranco? Or is Ani old news? Regardless, she's > still indie...right? > > --Doug ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:06:20 -0400 From: Michael Quinn Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_=3D=3Fwindows-1252=3FQ=3FRe=3D3A=5F=3D3? = =?windows-1252?Q?D=3D3Fwindows-1252=3D3FQ=3D3FRe=3D3D3A=3D5F=3D3D3=3F_ ?= =?windows-1252?Q?=3D_D=3D3FUTF-8=3D3FQ=3D3FRe=3D3D3A=3D5Ftwitter=3D5Fp ?= =?windows-1252?Q?=3F___=3D__=3D=3Fwindows-1252=3FQ=3Fower=3D3D?= =?windows-1252?Q?2C=3D5For=3D5F=3D3DE2=3D3D80=3D3D9Chow=3D5Fan=3D5Find ie?= =?windows-1252?Q?=3D5Fmu___si=3F=3D_c_ian=5Fc=5Fan=5F=3F=3D_?= =?windows-1252?Q?make_=2419=2C000_in_10_hours_using_twitter=94?= That really gives me a lot of new respect for Ani DiFranco. I didn't know that about her before. I do think though that it takes a very special kind of artist do be able to pull that off. I wasn't implying that superstardom is needed but really addressing the question of whether Amanda Palmer would have her large following without her major label contract. Amanda is certainly not a superstar but she does have a lot more exposure than many of the indie artists I know of who struggle to just get their music out to a good number of the people who would appreciate it. Amanda is very talented and I've benn a fan of hers since her first EP so it's an interesting question for me. I suppose it's conceivable, that Amanda, like Ani DiFranco, has some special blend of magnetism and talent that would have allowed her to achieve the same type of following without the major label contract. I also know though that many undeniably talented musicians languish in obscurity and many people seem really reluctant to really try music that's outside of the major label mainstream. I'm certainly no fan af major labels (quite the opposite) they are bad for both artists and fans and are really just bloodsuckers but I'm just wondering if they don't still control the industry enough to make it very hard for people to "go it alone" from the beginning even if they have a great deal of talent. meredith wrote: > Hi, > > Michael Quinn wrote: >> Yeah, seems like that is the problem. Once you have a following you >> can do well as an artist without a major label deal but, while >> stories like this are inspiring, the major labels are still the >> gatekeepers of who actually gets well known. I wonder if we will ever >> see an artist ever get really big without *ever* signing a major >> label deal. It would be really cool if that happened but doesn't seem >> to likely in the current environment. > > If by "big" you mean "serially on the cover of Rolling Stone and doing > stadium tours", you're probably right ... at least for now. But if by > "big" you mean "a household name in the circles you travel in and able > to continually sell out mid- to large-sized theaters and headline > major summer festivals on your own tour bus, all the while pulling in > enough to not only make a comfortable living but also fund the careers > of other people", I'd say Ani DiFranco has done pretty well by her own > indie self. > > Meredith :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:29:06 -0700 From: birdie Subject: Thea Gilmour on labels vs Indie http://tinyurl.com/fabthea ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V14 #171 ***************************