From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V14 #21 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Thursday, January 22 2009 Volume 14 : Number 021 To unsubscribe: e-mail ecto-digest-request@smoe.org and put the word unsubscribe in the message body. Today's Subjects: ----------------- Today's your birthday, friend... [Mike Matthews ] Booking for UK gigs [Adam Kimmel ] instance of an unsullen e mandell [paul kim ] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20oops=20corrected=20url=20-=A0=20Wim=20Wend e?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?r's=20"Palermo=A0=A0=20Shooting"?= [] Re: instance of an unsullen e mandell [neal copperman ] Re: instance of an unsullen e mandell [birdie ] Re: Booking for UK gigs [Ellen Rawson ] Re: instance of an unsullen e mandell [Marypt51@aol.com] Re: instance of an unsullen e mandell [birdie ] Re: instance of an unsullen e mandell [Marypt51@aol.com] Reminder: Washington, DC House Concert for Marina V - Jan. 23 ["Bill Adle] Re: More german film festival music: Wim Wender's "Palermo Shooting" [] Re: Blakley URL (reposting post that had had a malformatted subject line) [Marypt51@aol.c] critical thinking vs abuse [birdie ] testing the waters [kevin bartlett ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 03:00:03 -0500 (EST) From: Mike Matthews Subject: Today's your birthday, friend... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ********************* Terry Partis (no Email address) ********************* *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Terry Partis Sun January 22 1933 Rocker Steve Hughes Thu January 24 1963 Aquarius Sarah McLachlan Sun January 28 1968 Aquarius Ilka Heber Mon February 01 1965 Mermaid Bob Lovejoy Sun February 02 1947 Aquarius Diane Burke Sat February 02 1963 slow children Timothy S. Devine Tue February 03 1970 Aquarius Stephen Thomas Fri February 04 1966 Aquarius Doug Burks Tue February 14 1956 Blank Jim Sturnfield Thu February 18 1954 Aquarius Juha Kannisto Wed February 18 1970 Aquarius Joel Siegfried February 19 Penguin Crossing Linda Saboe Tue February 20 1951 aimless - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 01:48:14 -0800 From: Adam Kimmel Subject: Booking for UK gigs Don't know if any of the other UK people on this list have noticed this, but it now seems to be common practice for ticket agencies to send unreserved tickets (ie, your average gig ticket) special delivery. This is, natch, more expensive, but so far it's also been inconvenient: they deliver them to my home, and they have to be signed for. As I work, I'm not AT home, so I get a slip through the letter box and have to schlep out to the nearest sorting office during their severely restricted hours to pick the damned things up. Any other UK ectos have this yet? Adam K. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:11:10 -0800 From: paul kim Subject: instance of an unsullen e mandell A year or two ago, I saw Eleni performing in her trio with Becky Stark and Inara George called "The Living Sisters", and they all seemed to be having a ball. So, I guess this proves that she isn't sullen all the time. :) Man, I need to get off my butt and start getting back to going to shows at the Hotel Cafe...thanks for whetting my appetite again with your posts about all the shows you've been seeing there, birdie! shh, don't tell anyone, but me and my fiancee are trying to arrange a lineup of artists we like at the Hotel for the day before our wedding in March. It's pretty pie-in-the-sky, but the people there are being real nice about accommodating our requests, and it certainly helps to be friends with some of the people who play there regularly. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 11:21:31 EST From: Marypt51@aol.com Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20oops=20corrected=20url=20-=A0=20Wim=20Wend e?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?r's=20"Palermo=A0=A0=20Shooting"?= In a message dated 1/22/09 11:13:35 AM, birdies@ix.netcom.com writes: > Corrected Url for Ronee's myspace > > > > > www.myspace.com/roneeblakley > > I listened to the first tune in the mp3 player there just now and it's true what you said of her singing reminding one of a country/Americana Patti Smith. I see that they are contemporaries of each other and developed their styles independently. I feel dumb not to have heard Blakley before now since she's been around so long. ************** Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's capital. (http://news.aol.com/main/politics/inauguration?ncid=emlcntusnews00000003) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:44:54 -0700 From: neal copperman Subject: Re: instance of an unsullen e mandell Thanks Paul (and everyone). I've watched some of the live videos and while I wouldn't say she is exactly chipper, I found them to be mostly entertaining. I'd certainly consider seeing her given the chance, just to make up my own mind! Thanks, neal np: rezos - bobi cespedes On Jan 22, 2009, at 8:11 AM, paul kim wrote: > A year or two ago, I saw Eleni performing in her trio with Becky > Stark and > Inara George called "The Living Sisters", and they all seemed to be > having a > ball. So, I guess this proves that she isn't sullen all the time. :) > > Man, I need to get off my butt and start getting back to going to > shows at > the Hotel Cafe...thanks for whetting my appetite again with your > posts about > all the shows you've been seeing there, birdie! > > shh, don't tell anyone, but me and my fiancee are trying to arrange > a lineup > of artists we like at the Hotel for the day before our wedding in > March. > It's pretty pie-in-the-sky, but the people there are being real nice > about > accommodating our requests, and it certainly helps to be friends > with some > of the people who play there regularly. > > Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:57:21 -0800 From: birdie Subject: Re: instance of an unsullen e mandell i am sure it is calculated....the attitude. kinda like a 60's style desperate housewife gone bad vallley of the dolls gone slightly zombie haha On Jan 22, 2009, at 8:44 AM, neal copperman wrote: > Thanks Paul (and everyone). I've watched some of the live videos > and while I wouldn't say she is exactly chipper, I found them to be > mostly entertaining. I'd certainly consider seeing her given the > chance, just to make up my own mind! > > Thanks, > > neal > > np: rezos - bobi cespedes > > > On Jan 22, 2009, at 8:11 AM, paul kim wrote: > >> A year or two ago, I saw Eleni performing in her trio with Becky >> Stark and >> Inara George called "The Living Sisters", and they all seemed to be >> having a >> ball. So, I guess this proves that she isn't sullen all the >> time. :) >> >> Man, I need to get off my butt and start getting back to going to >> shows at >> the Hotel Cafe...thanks for whetting my appetite again with your >> posts about >> all the shows you've been seeing there, birdie! >> >> shh, don't tell anyone, but me and my fiancee are trying to arrange >> a lineup >> of artists we like at the Hotel for the day before our wedding in >> March. >> It's pretty pie-in-the-sky, but the people there are being real >> nice about >> accommodating our requests, and it certainly helps to be friends >> with some >> of the people who play there regularly. >> >> Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:05:22 -0800 (PST) From: Ellen Rawson Subject: Re: Booking for UK gigs - --- On Thu, 1/22/09, Adam Kimmel wrote: > Don't know if any of the other UK people on this list > have noticed this, but it now seems to be common practice > for ticket agencies to send unreserved tickets (ie, your > average gig ticket) special delivery. > > Any other UK ectos have this yet? > I haven't experienced that yet, as I mostly have been picking up tickets at the door. Interestingly enough, though, I recently bought unreserved tickets to see Sharon Shannon at the London Forum in April. The Forum's link for buying tickets is with a company called Ticket Text. They send you a PDF to print out your tickets (each print-out has a scan code on it) and text the code for each ticket to your mobile phone as well. Different. Ellen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:10:14 EST From: Marypt51@aol.com Subject: Re: instance of an unsullen e mandell I went to the Eleni M website after reading recent complaints here about her sullenness and watched the videos. After that visit, I found the music to not be something I feel compelled to order a cd of, but I also didn't feel a compulsion to attack this person's efforts. I did feel compelled to go listen to her and see if I might like her after reading efforts to make her seem awful, however. I tend to respond more favorably to posts introducing me to work one likes that I did not know about before than to catty comments intended to push people away from some artist. I still feel the best policy is to not give energy to that which one does not like and instead spend that energy bringing attention to the stuff one believes needs more attention. However, I can think of more than one artist (not speaking here of people posting in Ecto) out there who occasionally has commented in blogs or interviews about music/musicians they have contempt for as though they themselves are superior, and each time that artist has done that I've felt sorry for her need to validate herself as an artist that way at someone else's expense as though threatened by the existence of others or frightened of their possible success. I guess some musicians are competitive that way. Odds are those who try to push people away from that which they hate will sometimes fail in that endeavor and drive people toward them out of sympathy. But that's just my opinion; to each his own. Certainly a music email list like this is a place to share one's opinions, negative and positive, so my self righteous Pollyanna view is not the only valid way to view opining by a long shot. ************** Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's capital. (http://news.aol.com/main/politics/inauguration?ncid=emlcntusnews00000003) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:33:02 -0800 From: birdie Subject: Re: instance of an unsullen e mandell a very good read is Pat Metheny on Kenny G. some of the most insightful and educational reading are articles or posts where there is criticism. If the kitchen gets too hot - maybe it's time for x artist to go find another kitchen. there is nothing wrong with having many kitchens in the world. if you want chinese, you go find a chinese kitchen....etc if Hotel Cafe is interested in booking rocker boys off sunset blvd, they will but see...they have sunset blvd and they really aren't to the liking of the regulars at hotel cafe (and if they are, they'll go to sunset - that is what it is there for) and the regulars at Hotel Cafe (patrons and musicians) are what make the place - not rocker boys off sunset. Criticism can help an artist grow - especially in the studio via a good producer. catty comments can give someone a laugh that spent money and didn't like the show. there are different ways an audience can get their moneys worth. any description can attract or repel, all kinds of people. and, people can tell from the good the bad and the ugly - if they may like an artist. so, it's all good. Adrienne Pierce has now removed all the banners pimping TV shows from her page, has an actual picture of herself up, has loaded in twitter for a personal stream and has added music that all dates to her successful ectoish collaborations with a good production values. If you are going to have a problem with criticism, then you need to have a problem with the growth or hanges it can produce as that is the goal. I am sure Neal and Leonora will continue to carry on with Eleni - based on their own taste and all comments (good bad ugly) and that Adam and I are likely to be looking forward to Tracey Thorn's next CD. Nobody thinks any less of each other, I am sure. It's not the reviewers fault if a player is drunk and messes up and does a poor show....and maybe the tix buying public should be forewarned. It didn't hurt Judy Garland's or Johnny Rotten's career to have their drinking/drugging well known...killed them, but it didn't hurt their careers and the press had nothing to do with their personal habits. On the other hand, if an artist has a problem and gets enough attention for it - maybe they will get help...or change or grow from the experience..... welcome to the real world - people make what they will of it. That said, Kenny G or Louis Armstrong - I'm sticking with Mr. What a Wonderful World..... no brainer. No competition there. you said "I still feel the best policy is to not give energy to > that which one does not like and instead spend that energy bringing > attention > to the stuff one believes needs more attention. " Well, some people here will like Eleni and some will not - so - all views are valid. I just noticed Eleni has a song placement on the next Paris Hilton burger king commerical.... I'll refrain from any Jennifer Saunders type remarks regarding that..... so, we'll just leave it, as a dull lifeless comment, sure not to attract much attention. But, even the gay community has had it with all things Paris. Some artists just will do anything for a buck or publicity..... Just ask Paris. Criticism is how things can get improved upon.... There is nothing worse than big suck ups who just love everything an artist does simply cos they are a fanantic...or one of the artists hanger on "friends".... My artist friends are very critical of themselves and others and when they love someone, they really do. from the land of no BS. Birdie On Jan 22, 2009, at 1:10 PM, Marypt51@aol.com wrote: > > > I still feel the best policy is to not give energy to > that which one does not like and instead spend that energy bringing > attention > to the stuff one believes needs more attention. However, I can think > of more > than one artist (not speaking here of people posting in Ecto) out > there who > occasionally has commented in blogs or interviews about music/ > musicians they have > contempt for as though they themselves are superior, and each time > that artist > has done that I've felt sorry for her need to validate herself as an > artist > that way at someone else's expense as though threatened by the > existence of > others or frightened of their possible success. I guess some > musicians are > competitive that way. > > Odds are those who try to push people away from that which they hate > will > sometimes fail in that endeavor and drive people toward them out of > sympathy. But > that's just my opinion; to each his own. Certainly a music email > list like > this is a place to share one's opinions, negative and positive, so > my self > righteous Pollyanna view is not the only valid way to view opining > by a long shot. > > > > ************** > Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's > capital. (http://news.aol.com/main/politics/inauguration?ncid=emlcntusnews00000003 > ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:11:30 EST From: Marypt51@aol.com Subject: Re: instance of an unsullen e mandell Often there is jealousy when a musician spends their time focused on critiquing someone else instead of looking at the mote in their own eye, and the need to criticize is always justified as being intended to instruct and change others. As to that particular sentence I do mean a musician I'm thinking of and not you posting your thoughts here (comparable like you said to the Pat Metheny article but that's not the artist I'm thinking of). As to the notion of artists leaving the kitchen, just because someone is nauseated by egocentric self-validating directives from an artist on what's right and wrong in art, doesn't mean they need "to leave the kitchen" to suit some artiste's narrow views. As to the issue of Ecto messages such as this thread, however, I see now the issue of drinking and drugging pops up here and also Adrienne Pierce & her guitarist again when i was intending to write about the Eleni thread, which I do not believe was a thread pertaining to drinking. Now I begin to finally see why someone was referring to libel previously since I remember now the comment about someone "playing drunk" as seems to be the reference here since Ari Shine was previously accused of that. The philosophy of my favorite music journalist was, as I mentioned, to not waste his time writing about music he didn't like, but as I said, there are others who feel it is instructive to criticize, so it's up to each person what philosophy to follow as to judging others. Still to some degree, the urge to warn people away from certain artists reminds me of evangelical activists wanting to control people's actions and choices over things like reproductive rights issues, assuming the person involved is not a sentient being with the ability to consider what to do without instruction from others. So I just tend to have a different view on that. And this is the last thread I'll enter to comment on the down side of slamming artists because I've registered my view, and there is no reason for me to reiterate it the next time a different artist is criticized, as I expect will go on in the future. In a message dated 1/22/09 5:41:05 PM, birdies@ix.netcom.com writes: > a very good read is Pat Metheny on Kenny G. > > some of the most insightful and educational reading are articles or > posts where there is criticism. > > If the kitchen gets too hot - maybe it's time for x artist to go find > another kitchen. > > there is nothing wrong with having many kitchens in the world. > > if you want chinese, you go find a chinese kitchen....etc > > if Hotel Cafe is interested in booking rocker boys off sunset blvd, > they will but see...they have sunset blvd and they really aren't to > the liking of the regulars at hotel cafe (and if they are, they'll go > to sunset - that is what it is there for) and the regulars at Hotel > Cafe (patrons and musicians) are what make the place - not rocker boys > off sunset. > > Criticism can help an artist grow - especially in the studio via a > good producer. > > catty comments can give someone a laugh that spent money and didn't > like the show. > > there are different ways an audience can get their moneys worth. > > any description can attract or repel, all kinds of people. > > and, people can tell from the good the bad and the ugly - if they may > like an artist. > > so, it's all good. > > Adrienne Pierce has now removed all the banners pimping TV shows from > her page, has an actual picture of herself up, has loaded in twitter > for a personal stream and has added music that all dates to her > successful ectoish collaborations with a good production values. > > If you are going to have a problem with criticism, then you need to > have a problem with the growth or hanges it can produce as that is the > goal. > > I am sure Neal and Leonora will continue to carry on with Eleni - > based on their own taste and all comments (good bad ugly) and that > Adam and I are likely to be looking forward to Tracey Thorn's next CD. > > Nobody thinks any less of each other, I am sure. > > It's not the reviewers fault if a player is drunk and messes up and > does a poor show....and maybe the tix buying public should be > forewarned. It didn't hurt Judy Garland's or Johnny Rotten's career to > have their drinking/drugging well known...killed them, but it didn't > hurt their careers and the press had nothing to do with their personal > habits. On the other hand, if an artist has a problem and gets enough > attention for it - maybe they will get help...or change or grow from > the experience..... > > welcome to the real world - people make what they will of it. > > That said, Kenny G or Louis Armstrong - > > I'm sticking with Mr. What a Wonderful World..... > > no brainer. > > No competition there. > > you said "I still feel the best policy is to not give energy to > > that which one does not like and instead spend that energy bringing > > attention > > to the stuff one believes needs more attention. " > > Well, some people here will like Eleni and some will not - so - all > views are valid. > > I just noticed Eleni has a song placement on the next Paris Hilton > burger king commerical.... > > I'll refrain from any Jennifer Saunders type remarks regarding that..... > > so, we'll just leave it, as a dull lifeless comment, sure not to > attract much attention. > > But, even the gay community has had it with all things Paris. > > Some artists just will do anything for a buck or publicity..... > > Just ask Paris. > > Criticism is how things can get improved upon.... > > There is nothing worse than big suck ups who just love everything an > artist does simply cos they are a fanantic...or one of the artists > hanger on "friends".... > > My artist friends are very critical of themselves and others and when > they love someone, they really do. > > from the land of no BS. > > Birdie > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 22, 2009, at 1:10 PM, Marypt51@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > I still feel the best policy is to not give energy to > > that which one does not like and instead spend that energy bringing > > attention > > to the stuff one believes needs more attention. However, I can think > > of more > > than one artist (not speaking here of people posting in Ecto) out > > there who > > occasionally has commented in blogs or interviews about music/ > > musicians they have > > contempt for as though they themselves are superior, and each time > > that artist > > has done that I've felt sorry for her need to validate herself as an > > artist > > that way at someone else's expense as though threatened by the > > existence of > > others or frightened of their possible success. I guess some > > musicians are > > competitive that way. > > > > Odds are those who try to push people away from that which they hate > > will > > sometimes fail in that endeavor and drive people toward them out of > > sympathy. But > > that's just my opinion; to each his own. Certainly a music email > > list like > > this is a place to share one's opinions, negative and positive, so > > my self > > righteous Pollyanna view is not the only valid way to view opining > > by a long shot. > > > ************** Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's capital. (http://news.aol.com/main/politics/inauguration?ncid=emlcntusnews00000003) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:16:19 -0500 From: "Bill Adler" Subject: Reminder: Washington, DC House Concert for Marina V - Jan. 23 The house concert for singer-songwriter Marina Verenikina is on Friday, January 23, at 8pm at 3255 N. Ohio Street, Arlington, Virginia at a friend's house. Tickets are $20. If you've never heard Marina V's music, you're in for a treat. She has a lush, rich voice and sings beautiful and evocative songs about life and love. Very ecto-ish. You can sample Marina's songs at http://www.marinav.com. I have a webpage with more information about the concert, too, at http://marinav.notlong.com. I'm looking forward to seeing other area Ectophiles on January 23rd. If you have any questions about the concert, let me know. (And there will be snacks!) - --Bill Adler ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:43:34 -0500 From: "Richard Messum" Subject: Re: More german film festival music: Wim Wender's "Palermo Shooting" It's one of my favourite films of all time, too. Has it ever been released on DVD? If it has, it's no longer available here (in Canada), and it's a major hole in my collection. But i have it on video -- in both French and English versions, and i have the soundtrack CD, although i can't say i've listened to it as much as you have! ("A billion billion times"? I suspect a slight usage of hyperbole here LOL.) The title in French is "Jusqu'au bout du monde" --which can mean both "Until the end of the world" and "To the edge of the world" and either one is appropriate, don't you think? Jane Siberry is on the soundtrack, performing "Calling All Angels" with k.d. laing, and Issa (the artist formerly known as Jane Siberry) just e-mailed me: the copy of her new album "Dragon Dreams," which i ordered from her website last week, is on its way. I would like to add this to my archive of famous people who have e-mailed me, but i suppose it was an automated response.... Tra la Richard - ----- Original Message ----- From: jessica spurling To: Steve VanDevender Cc: ecto Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 8:59 PM Subject: Re: More german film festival music: Wim Wender's "Palermo Shooting" Until The End Of The World is one of my favorite movies of all times, and i've listened to the soundtrack a billion billion times. My only sadness is that Peter Gabriel wouldn't let his song from the movie be on the soundtrack. So sad. The version in the movie is quite different from the version he released on his own album that year. Having it on the soundtrack would 'complete' it for me, as that long is significant for the atmosphere at that moment in the movie. Ah well! It's still an incredibly good soundtrack, a must-listen if you haven't already. Or better yet, see the movie :) - -jessica ps: birdie: very cool about your friend Ronee and Wim Wenders! Steve VanDevender wrote: > jessica spurling writes: > > erm, yes, I know it's Wenders' > > :P > > I'm just a spaz! > > Unless you happen to like the other possessive convention "Wenders's" > (as Strunk & White recommends). I at least like to pronounce it that > way because its makes the spoken form of the possessive distinct, > although it's also nicely consistent for writing (you just always add > "'s"). > > But I don't want to start a grammar war on Ecto. > > As I recall Wenders does like to use quite a bit of Ectoish music. > Quite some time ago I saw "Until the End of the World" which had Jane > Siberry in the soundtrack. > > > jessica spurling wrote: > > > I saw Wim Wender's newest movie last night, Palermo Shooting. He was > > > there to talk and answer questions after the film. Wow, he's an > > > amazing fellow. I utterly love him. > > > > > > There was quite a lot of excellent music in the movie. > > > http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1008017/soundtrack > > > > > > I will need to procure it. It was definitely music good enough to > own. > > Some of the names I recognize, many I do not. Looking forward to > > > learning new artists. > > > > > > -jessica > > > > > > jessica spurling wrote: > > >> I've been attending the german film festival here in san francisco > > >> this past week. It's quite wonderful, and there's been some very good > > >> music, too. > > >> > > >> Quite spectacular was the music in Der Freund, a swiss movie in > which > >> an awkward young fellow is in love with a singer he sees > perform > >> regularly in his local club, but he's afraid to talk to her. > The > >> singer is played by Sophie Hunger, and *I* was in love with her > too. > >> I don't know if she's been talked about here on ecto before. A > brief > >> search didn't find anything. Just in case, I am mentioning her, > as I > >> think many of you will like her. > > >> > > >> http://www.sophiehunger.com/ > > >> > > >> Her songs for the movie are just wonderful, and fortunately you can > > >> see some of it on youtube. > > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfsdEx-keIc > > >> > > >> There are other videos of her on youtube. > > >> > > >> I doubt I can make it happen by May, but I sure would love to get to > > >> Berlin to see her May 11 there. > > >> > > >> --jessica ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 19:51:00 EST From: Marypt51@aol.com Subject: Re: Blakley URL (reposting post that had had a malformatted subject line) I sent this a lot earlier today to the list but because the Subject line was malformatted in my inbox, and many may have deleted it thinking it spam, I am going to re-send it. The subject line for some reason formatted the first time I posted it as: Re: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20oops=20corrected=20url=20-=A0=20Wim=20Wend e?= r's "Palermo Shooting" Sorry for the tedious re-send. Below is what I had written, which merely was appreciation for a URL birdie had posted: In a message dated 1/22/09 11:27:34 AM, Marypt51@aol.com writes: > In a message dated 1/22/09 11:13:35 AM, birdies@ix.netcom.com writes: > > > > Corrected Url for Ronee's myspace > > > > > > > > www.myspace.com/roneeblakley > > > >=================================== > > I listened to the first tune in the mp3 player there just now and it's true > what you said of her singing reminding one of a country/Americana Patti > Smith. > I see that they are contemporaries of each other and developed their styles > independently. I feel dumb not to have heard Blakley before now since she's > been > around so long. > > > ************** A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http ://www.fr eecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=Decemailfooter NO62) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 17:55:34 -0800 From: birdie Subject: critical thinking vs abuse On Jan 22, 2009, at 3:11 PM, Marypt51@aol.com wrote: > Often there is jealousy when a musician spends their time focused on > critiquing someone else instead of looking at the mote in their own > eye, and > the need > to criticize is always justified as being intended to instruct and > change > others. I do not think that is the case with Pat M - altho - the cheesewhiz smooth jazz movement that Kenny G is associated with, rankled pretty much the whole improvisational jazz community. Look anytime you have an original artist that becomes massively popular (Louis Armstrong) even decades later, you can still see wanna be knock-offs - and in the case of Kenny G - his music became more popular than basically the whole community of jazz musicians was producing..... whenever there is something fabulously original and it gets exploited and watered down, there is noise..... > > As to that particular sentence I do mean a musician I'm thinking of > and > not you posting your thoughts here (comparable like you said to the > Pat > Metheny > article but that's not the artist I'm thinking of). I have no idea of who the artist is you are thinking of, I am just offering a different take on how original artists can get upset by the copy cats, and be critical of them. > As to the notion of > artists leaving the kitchen, just because someone is nauseated by > egocentric > self-validating directives from an artist on what's right and wrong > in art, > doesn't > mean they need "to leave the kitchen" to suit some artiste's narrow > views. Lost me on that one. People who want country music, go to the country places etc. Sometimes artists crossover to different genres, but you know the kitchens (venues, shops, etc) sell what they sell. If you want hotdogs, go the hot dog stand. That's what I am saying. > > > As to the issue of Ecto messages such as this thread, however, I see > now the > issue of drinking and drugging pops up here and also Adrienne Pierce > & her > guitarist again when i was intending to write about the Eleni > thread, which I > do > not believe was a thread pertaining to drinking. Hold on, now you are getting yourself all twisted up. I think it is great that Adrienne has gotten back to looking like a real live personable indie artist rather than having an impersonal commerical myspace, with xmas music etc... She has re-tooled back to ecto form and even added Issa back as a friend. and says she doesnt have a record deal, tho on her sonicbids page, it says her next CD is Bongo Beat. Beats me... But, I think that is all very good....for her. Accept it for what I just said and stop trying to make a mess, please. The point I was making is that criticism can be used constructively and for positive change. The drinking/drugging Judy Garland/Johnny Rotten paragraph was a different example, in a broader way - of how press over a problem may or may not bring about positive change. Hello? I was just using that as an excellent example of how publicity over problems can go all kinds of ways. Believe me, If I meant anything different, it would have been evident. > Now I begin to finally see > why someone was referring to libel previously Huh??????????? Usually, people resort to threats and personal attacks when they don't have a leg to stand on, otherwise. In otherwords, if someone performed fabulously and attracted huge crowds, they'd just delete ignore and go back to work playing fabulously for large crowds.... > since I remember now the comment > about someone "playing drunk" as seems to be the reference here > since Ari > Shine > was previously accused of that. Oh please, if someone is missing notes and hitting the wrong fx and is abit behind the ball and is all over the place....they can totally come off like they are drunk! Drunks are sloppy a lot of the time - there are other excuses for sloppy...but....that has to be the most common one and the easiest for someone to convey when trying to describe such an affair....saying they were playing as if they were drunk is not the same thing as saying they were drinking or drunk....it was used descriptively to convey the level of sloppiness! Word!!!!!!! I think that you clearly take things the wrong way and out of context! I have no idea if Ari ever did or does drink and I honestly don't care either way...I saw him play 3 times, and the last time was the worst of all - and - I decided I did not want anything to do with him personally or professionally. Maybe he was overly tired or badly jetlagged but those just don't describe the sloppiness, as well. Beats me what else could get someone to play so poorly, in public, for all to see. But, I do not have the descriptive chops of say, Adam - to think of a better way to put it. Sorry! I've never seen anything quite like it before but you have to understand - I am accustomed to the best players around on a regular basis! So, I come from an environment that would never permit such sloppiness - no matter what the cause. These days, it's Theresa Andersson and the rest at Hotel Cafe. Let me tell you, they are rehearsed!!!!! It's not my job to help or like every musician that comes my way! I have my own tastes and relationships and community etc. He simply was miles away from my own taste, ear, feel and those I spend my life with. There is nothing I can do for or with him. As in no no no and no thank you. You may want to stop bringing it up as it would have died peacefully weeks ago, OK? > The philosophy of my favorite music journalist was, as I mentioned, > to not > waste his time writing about music he didn't like, but as I said, > there are > others who feel it is instructive to criticize, so it's up to each > person what > philosophy to follow as to judging others. To each their own is all that was being said.....if you like chinese, go have some chinese! If you want to serve burgers in a chinese restaurant - you just might not get many takers as the burger crowd is down at the burger stand! If people go to a chinese place for chinese and the place is selling burgers, they'll probably be unhappy and have to go find another kitchen!! It's no different in here than out there! > Still to some degree, the urge to > warn > people away from certain artists reminds me of evangelical activists > wanting > to control people's actions and choices over things like > reproductive rights > issues, assuming the person involved is not a sentient being with > the ability > to consider what to do without instruction from others. So I just > tend to have > a different view on that. Okay, well...I'm glad we got that out of the way. > And this is the last thread I'll enter to comment on the down side of > slamming artists you can always respond, off the list. I think the key phrase here was "slamming artists" Have you ever been to dance class? How about on a set or in a studio where 20 plus takes need to be done??? I've worked with thousands of the most critical people in both film and music. They have produced an insane amount of brilliant work..... I think what you call slammin' - we just call picking up a hammer and going to work and to produce the best work we possibly can. It takes an enormous amount of critical activity to get everything just right. No Jive! If people cannot hang or keep up, they get fired or let go or otherwise dismissed....by employers or audiences. That's just life. The way the cookie crumbles. For me, it's an everyday part of life and for you - it appears to be an offense. Different worlds. I think, perhaps you should just try to change your filter and realise that the intent isn't to hurt but to keep harm from happening and to improve things.....which is MY motivation, and it's really uncool to try to turn that into something abusive....OK? Maybe when you "slam" artists, it is based on a need to abuse....but, it isn't for me...and I certainly don't consider it, slamming!! That's all your construct....from your head...your world. Not mine. Some people I just cannot help and have to walk away from, and others know that I care about them and if I see the ship headed for the reefs, damn straight I will call it out. critical thinking is how we get through the day, which I realise is different from the world of fawning fans....but...I'm on the work side of the fence, primarily, tho I do go out and support artists....as much as I can. But, I have to really like them, and usually, they are my friends....I'm picky. We all get to be. Which is fabulous! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:14:34 -0500 From: kevin bartlett Subject: testing the waters Hey Ectos ! Doing my spring cleaning early here at Aural G. There is a ton of stuff on it's way to the trash. Happy left behind (deliberately) boxes of items including original lyric, notes, PR stuff, set lists, guest lists, charts, 8 X 10's and god knows what else over 10 years ago. It's been moved around with the AG junk from Bearsville to Phoenicia, to Glenford, to Woodstock and now again just last year to the new digs in Woodstock. I really need to thin the herd. So before I start dumping I'm interested in seeing if there is any interest in some of this material. If so (no pun intended) I'll take the time to do an inventory of what's really here and put it up on ebay or the AG site for sale. I suppose an original framed lyric sheet might be of some interest to someone. (you'd have to frame it) Also, although I'm sure she obviously doesn't want any of this stuff I'd send her 1/2 the cash in the spirit of a crumbling economy. Or donate it all to some worthy cause. Thought I'd ask, and it will take a ton of time to go through. But I can't help feeling some of this is of some value. Thanks for your ears K ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V14 #21 **************************