From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V14 #11 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Tuesday, January 13 2009 Volume 14 : Number 011 To unsubscribe: e-mail ecto-digest-request@smoe.org and put the word unsubscribe in the message body. Today's Subjects: ----------------- Recent changes to the Ectophiles' Guide ["The Ectophiles' Guide" ] Re: dig that crazy Bongo Beat! ["Scarlet Pimpernel" ] Re: dig that crazy Bongo Beat! ["Jeffrey Burka" ] Re: loose mail v. digest ["Allison Crowe Music" ] Re: dig that crazy Bongo Beat! [Bernie Mojzes ] my honkin' big problem with Sarah Fimm: ["Jeffrey Burka" ] Re: interpretive singing ["Sue Trowbridge" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 04:17:47 -0800 From: "The Ectophiles' Guide" Subject: Recent changes to the Ectophiles' Guide Latest changes to the Ectophiles' Guide 11 January 2009 New Guide entries added for: * Natacha Atlas & Marc Eagleton * An Pierle * Mary Timony * Various Artists - Going Driftless: An Artist's Tribute to Greg Brown * Various Artists: The Imagined Village * Hans York Changes made to the entries for: * Emily Bezar (new album) * Suzy Callahan (new album) * Jem (new album) * Pram (2 new albums) * Eddi Reader (additional album) * Kerri Simpson (two additional albums) * Velvet Belly (additional album) - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- You are receiving this email because you have asked to be notified of updates to the Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music at http://www.ectoguide.org/. If you are no longer interested in receiving these notifications, please unsubscribe yourself using the form at http://www.ectoguide.org/guide.cgi?newsubscribe&action=unsubscribe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 10:38:44 -0500 From: "Jeffrey Burka" Subject: Re: dig that crazy Bongo Beat! > At this point, might I suggest that this particular dispute between you > two is not appropriate to hash out on Ecto? Each of you might think you > have an argument to win, but if you keep up this tone of discourse, > you're just going to convince everyone you're both losers. Yeah. What Steve said. Pity Adrian didn't actually pay attention. jeff n.p. _Epiphany Project_, Epiphany Project (thanks, Craig) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:15:55 -0800 From: "Scarlet Pimpernel" Subject: Re: dig that crazy Bongo Beat! well, for whatever reason, several of my posts from yesterday appeared out of order, and hours late - either mail servers or some way in which posts are timed for the Digest... at the very least, you'd have seen a different flow still, it's never been my wish to have to deal with any of this - it's a list manager or mod's role to address such an extraordinary situation; an individual list member risks, as I have, incurring the wrath of folks who don't know the circumstances, and, understandably, just want to talk as they should dure to the unique set of who is who in this affair, however, it's an exceptionally sticky wicket - and, in hockey parlance, if I have to take a hit for the team, so be it I am happy to report that this list, which, had it been other people getting attacked, could have faced very serious legal consequences, is not in any danger, due to the good nature of those harmed in this instance and, with all the work being done behind the scenes to repair the damage elsewhere, I trust this matter need never again darken ecto's door peace, Ad ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:26:27 -0800 From: "Allison Crowe Music" Subject: loose mail v. digest Jeff, as mentioned, the dialogue by digest was not helping - and, certainly yesterday, resulted in my comments coming in well after the time at which they'd been meant to do so. Accordingly, with a friend's account (a David Niven fan) I am trying loose mail - but, since it's not my account, it's not my name appearing - so, should there be any confusion, please have no doubt that was my message - and my wishes! cheers, Adrian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:27:26 -0500 From: "Jeffrey Burka" Subject: Re: dig that crazy Bongo Beat! Adrian sez: > still, it's never been my wish to have to deal with any of this You didn't have to deal with any of it. It may not be the normal mode of operation for teh interwebs, but we're basically all a bunch of adults here. Birdie, whose writings I generally enjoy, was clearly going off the deep end and pretty much everyone was aware of it. Some may have come to that conclusion later than others, but the idea that someone needed to keep goading her in to more and more absurd rants and only the list manager could have stopped it is patently absurd. > - it's a list manager or mod's role to address such an extraordinary situation Which is to say, no, it isn't. We have no moderator. On purpose. The list manager takes a virtually completely hands-off approach. On purpose. We've managed this way for a little shy of EIGHTEEN YEARS. I've been here literally since day one. I'd like to think I have a reasonably good sense of how things take place on ecto. As for legal consequences, this list faced absolutely no danger. If anyone had been sued for libel or slander, it would have not involved the list. (actually, I wouldn't have even bothered responding to Adrian's last e-mail if not for this bizarre claim) Now let's get back to wondering what Happy is up to these days, arguing over whether or not the engineering on _The Sensual World_ sucked, discussing cool artists who may or may not sound like Adrienne 'n Ari, etc. And that includes input from both Birdie and Adrian. Who, believe it or not, I really do want to continue to hear from! jeff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:41:13 -0800 From: "Allison Crowe Music" Subject: Re: loose mail v. digest And, regular conversations about such topics is all we wish to see, for sure. As for using the term mod, I was not speaking specifically about there being a mod on this list - rather that the delicate sort of dance required to deal with such a situation, and to not have to include the broader community in knowing things they'd rather not, is, generally, the purview of a person in such position as a mod or manager. Naturally, in relation to this list, the manager is Meredith, and, again, I've done my best to explain without going into things we'd all like to hear even less, that, this universe is unfolding as it must. With respect to the legal question, you may find it bizarre, but, it's been prominent among the concerns raised by those that are addressing this matter - and, that assurance that all is clear is meant as a positive, not a negative. cheers, Ad ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:56:34 -0600 From: Doug Subject: Re: dig that crazy Bongo Beat! > I have no dispute with Birdie. There's something far more complicated > happening than what you suggest. Understandably, you've not read the > posts of the past weeks to be apprised. I wouldn't myself had > circumstances been different. What I don't understand is this: Birdie has an opinion, like everyone does. His being vocal with his opinion doesn't really change anything, so what's all the fuss about him expressing himself? It's not same thing as "defamation". Birdie doesn't like certain artists...big deal. - --Doug ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 13:12:13 -0500 (EST) From: Bernie Mojzes Subject: Re: dig that crazy Bongo Beat! Please, everyone, let this thread (and all the associated threads) die. thanks brni >> I have no dispute with Birdie. There's something far more complicated >> happening than what you suggest. Understandably, you've not read the >> posts of the past weeks to be apprised. I wouldn't myself had >> circumstances been different. > > What I don't understand is this: Birdie has an opinion, like everyone > does. His being vocal with his opinion doesn't really change > anything, so what's all the fuss about him expressing himself? It's > not same thing as "defamation". > > Birdie doesn't like certain artists...big deal. > > --Doug > - -- brni i don't want the world, i just want your half. http://www.kappamaki.com/ http://brni.livejournal.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 13:24:33 -0500 From: "Jeffrey Burka" Subject: my honkin' big problem with Sarah Fimm: Why the hell won't she let me give her some money for _White Birds_?! _Nexus_ was always my most-played of the first three albums, but this is even better. But I feel guilty every time I listen to it! Like right now! Argh! jeff now_playing_and_feeling_guilty_about: _White Birds_, Sarah Fimm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:21:57 -0800 From: birdie Subject: Re: my honkin' big problem with Sarah Fimm: haha here you can get even more free music from www.leerone.com Leerone is my name. First name only. Pronounced Leeee-rhone or roan. Like the "Lee" of Leroy and the "Rone" of Tyrone. Leerone is music, of the sine-wave variety ][ or, maybe, peanut butter, honey and banana sandwiches, lightly toasted on a sunday morning ][ fond memories and a little self-administered guilt www.myspace.com/mynameisleerone Jeffrey Burka wrote: >Why the hell won't she let me give her some money for _White Birds_?! > >_Nexus_ was always my most-played of the first three albums, but this >is even better. But I feel guilty every time I listen to it! Like >right now! Argh! > >jeff >now_playing_and_feeling_guilty_about: _White Birds_, Sarah Fimm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:45:34 -0500 From: "Karen Hester" Subject: Re: Erin McKeown (and Anne Heaton) Oooh that's adorable, will forward it. I see Erin McKeown has some dates coming up - 21st in Brooklyn, and various MA. Also Anne Heaton - tonight in NY, CD release 24th in Boston, etc. K > From: meredith > On New Year's Eve at the ecto-famous Tin Angel in Philly, Erin McKeown and Garrison Starr closed out > the night with a rather surprising take on Beyonce's "Single Ladies". > > JeffW captured the moment on video, and it's now on the front page of erinmckeown.com. Enjoy -- it > was hilarious. :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:32:18 -0800 From: birdie Subject: Re: maintaining fairness and decency in list postings Darling...whats your name, Adrian? You really should settle down. So what if someone doesn't care for a wanna be rocker dude on Ecto? Why make such a big deal about it? What's all the fuss about defamation and reputations being hurt? People are not into that kind of music here, anyway! Why get SO involved? Look, lot's of people don't care for Britney Spears around here, either Are you gonna get up on a soapbox and cry defamation if someone expresses that opinion, too? People should be free to express if some obscure artist that was ectoish had a major change in career direction and it went from touring with Issa aka Jane Siberry (ecto) to some guy that plays in a heavy metal band, sells songs to paris hilton, and signed to the basically all male, Bongo Beat Records. (not ecto) and so on. Major freakin' career change. I was fine with the Issa/nettwerk records/jeff trott/indie work prior.... Production and musicians were top notch. But, as anyone who knows me and my taste will tell you..... I have no use for anyone in a heavy metal band, anyone that wants their music on paris hiltons show, and so on....I have no use for Britney Spears - altho that Richard Thompson video was a complete scream! The whole trend of cool indie artists with real talent aping corporate acts, is hilarious! and home DIY recordings can be totally brilliant, if well produced. Look at Thersa Andersson. That's talent. I have no idea why you've had such a hard time wrapping your head around things. As for the rest.... I realize you are in Canada....but things down here in Hollywood - the music community is going through major changes - lots of established artists have lost 1/3 to 1/2 of their money in the past few months.... Everybody else is being extremely picky about how they spend their money. Venues are being sure they get the best acts, can fill the seats, etc No one in their right mind is signing to ANY labels - and the Amanda Palmer's and Sara Bareille's who did - have been crying that they think they made a mistake. Mistakes happen! People still get suckered in, but the labels are reeling more than ever now. The pressure is on, in all kinds of ways. Big changes are in store, no doubt. The upside is it has been heaven at Hotel Cafe, etc. Brilliant acts, people going out, supporting great talent. All of it fit into 2008 - 2009 discussion. The only cancer I see is musicians are having a very hard time making and keeping their money these days and the last administration here in the good ole USA, did nothing to help. There has been cutbacks in Canada on grants and funding, so...the party is kinda over - all over. I get it. Lots of old school ways of doing things - that the labels or publishers or TV/Film producers were into are now dysfunctional and no longer useful. Or, they are more upsetting than ever. The songwriters that jump and write copy cat versions of songs for the TV producers who are too cheap to pay the original artists that invented the sound or style or song they want (but wont pay for) are now looked down on more than ever by the original artists. The closest thing to it is...scab labor in a union town. It was tolerated in the past, but....original artists are feeling ripped off or hard pressed enough these days. Do you get that? Probably not - you are in Canada. You are not here among the greater community or the cheap reality TV producers. So, apart from my taste in music.....I have a sense of ethics and a political point of view. The artists that are generally loved around here are original female unique indie artists. They usually aren't gonna have anything to do with Britney or some guy that plays in a heavy metal band or have an impersonal myspace that pimps commerical TV shows. I have no idea what you are going on about with complications or anything personal. I skipped most of your messages as you seemed to want to make something personal out of all this. I don't hang with certain kinds of musicians. You don't even know me, etc, It has to do with my taste, my sense of right and wrong, my political take on the business, and the people I am involved with and have been for many many years, You do not have to agree with me. Seriously, I think you got in over your head with all kinds of accusations. But, I am going to tell you straight up that anyone that knows me, knows the teams I play for. Original indie artists. Just that simple. The worst in ANY year could be one jumping to an impersonal commerical career. For any of us. Now can we get on with 2009? I'd rather be discussing fresh new original talent or CD's by trusted faves!!! Hopefully, there will be some economic solutions in the new year. I think peeps with the best live shows, innovative videos, indie CD releases, and who can successfully tour and sell merc will survive....and, everyone with a day job!! TV is failing apart and so is film. So, peeps who depended on those are on shakey ground now, too. Everybody will have to pay for TV or get a converter box soon and lots will just go without TV. Radio, on the other hand, if they can survive the downturn and other changes in that industry...will probably be happenin' It costs a whole heck less to produce than a TV show or film. Oh, and maybe one other good thing this year is maybe more people will be selling their vinyl!!!!! You should just kill file me....really....or go play over at Bongo Beat with the boys! oh and now don't get all hysterical over the term, Kill File, Ok? It doesn't have anything to do with a sharp object. Swear. Cheers Birdie It should be clear from my tastes in music that I'm not into heavy metal, tribute bands, copy cat musicians and all manner of cheesewhiz commerical lets make for a buck - music. Never have been - never will be. You can try to make up whatever drama you want and get yourself in a tizzy, but you made yourself a party to what was simply "a worst of 2008" musical experience into who knows what, as I haven't bothered to read most of your posts. On Jan 11, 2009, at 10:06 PM, Allison Crowe Music wrote: > If you read the posts of recent weeks, critical faculties alone should > be enough for you to see how some folks, not present to even > participate, have been repeatedly jumped on and spat on. And, that's > just the surface. > > I don't know about you, but, my sense of fairness and decency just > doesn't mesh with this sort of conduct. > > I am not party to any dispute. In the absence of the parties being > attacked being present to represent their interests, I and others are > filling a role to safeguard their interests and reputations. > > As noted, there's a lot of complexity to what lies beneath, and the > relationships that make it a delicate operation to excise the cancer. > And there's no medical handbook, so, for, sure, not all the steps will > have surgical precision. > > I'm as frustrated as anyone with all the nonsense to wade through. > Still, as a caring human being, it's simply not on to stand by and > watch > good people be hurt and publicly defamed. > > You can inform yourself, and then, do unto others, or, you can dismiss > things as you wish. > > 'best, Adrian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:57:23 -0800 From: "Allison Crowe Music" Subject: Re: maintaining fairness and decency in list postings Birdie, your malicious campaign began months before it spilled onto this list. And, it still took over one week of your bile being spewed here before I took note. You've been asked, you've been told, on list and off, politely and bluntly to can it. Your attacks in this circumstance are personal. You know it. Most everyone else knows it. Be thankful the people you've defamed are good natured. There's many in this world that would not be so generous. 'best, Ad ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:56:56 -0500 From: morayati@email.unc.edu Subject: Re: my honkin' big problem with Sarah Fimm: - ----- Forwarded message from morayati@email.unc.edu ----- Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:48:36 -0500 From: morayati@email.unc.edu Reply-To: morayati@email.unc.edu Subject: Re: my honkin' big problem with Sarah Fimm: To: Jeffrey Burka I was getting really worried there for a second. I love _White Birds_. A lot. Bunches and bunches. I wrote about it last Monday. An anecdote: I read Entertainment Weekly's PopWatch blog regularly, and one of the posters, Michael Slezak, had mentioned how much he liked Lettie's debut album. So I went to her Myspace, noticed Sarah Fimm was a top friend, and commented about how Lettie also had great taste in music. The next comment after that is Sarah Fimm herself. She took time out from whatever she was doing to compliment her. (I guess it could be someone impersonating her, but I seriously doubt that.) How many artists do that? - -Sarah Quoting Jeffrey Burka : > Why the hell won't she let me give her some money for _White Birds_?! > > _Nexus_ was always my most-played of the first three albums, but this > is even better. But I feel guilty every time I listen to it! Like > right now! Argh! > > jeff > now_playing_and_feeling_guilty_about: _White Birds_, Sarah Fimm > - ----- End forwarded message ----- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 01:12:36 -0500 From: breinheimer@webtv.net (bill) Subject: Re: interpretive singing Admittedly, I don't listen much to "straight" covers of pop songs (I'm more interested in the arrangements than the vocals). I think there are many fine interpretive song stylists around today. They just happen to be working the jazzy side of the street. However no discussion of covers would be complete without mentioning one Mark Johnathan Davis aka Richard Cheese aka frontman for Lounge Against the Machine. For those unfortunate few unfamiliar with LATM they are what their name implies: a band that performs "swankified" (Richard's term) covers of modern standards. That is to say, popular music including songs from genres such as rap, metal, punk, hard rock, etc. When it works, the incongruity of these suave arrangement with often vulgar,banal and/or sophomoric lyrics is hilarious. The entertainment value is quite high on numbers like "Baby got back", "Closer" and "Fight for your right" amongst others. For those who are fans, it should be noted that LATM is in the midst of their "Martini Hero" tour which, unfortunately, is their farewell tour. Richard plans to have a Hawaiian Tiki band (!) in place for 2010. Check them out while you can. np (yeah, I still listen to cd's): Richard Cheese/LATM- mix cd ok, so I'm a "dickhead". Don't try it if you haven't knocked it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 01:33:23 -0500 From: Greg Dunn Subject: Re: CD quality Well, I'm going to pull out _The Sensual World_ which I haven't listened to critically in a while, and see if I can figure out what might be "wrong" with it. Should be interesting, since I have a better idea what goes into mixing/mastering than I did back in the 80s. ;-) Meanwhile, a capsule review of some CDs that got me into this remastered sound introspection. I remember the shock of hearing Chicago's first album back in 1969, and wondering where that powerful jazz/rock sound came from. Sadly, just a few years later I was wondering where it went - after their 5th album, it was full-time schlock rock as far as I was concerned, and I felt a loss. But those first few albums! Dazzling virtuosity, great mixes of guitar and brass, crisp percussion... there were a handful of other bands in the late 60s and early 70s which did this right and then vanished: BS&T, Chase, and Rastus. With a nod to the Ides of March, if you listened to their deep album tracks and not just the singles. The problem with the early Chicago discs is that particularly #2 had a very indifferent and muddy sound; and their Carnegie Hall live effort was not given high marks by the band either. I picked up the initial CD releases, finding that the sound was not noticeably improved and resigning myself to the inevitability that the masters were just not any better than that. When I saw that Rhino had remastered the catalog, I thought I'd give them a shot. Rhino has certainly done a good job on most of their catalog, so why not? In order to share the results with the folks at HydrogenAudio (and to prove to myself that I wasn't imagining things), I decided to run ABX tests on the old vs. new CDs. The conclusions were quite interesting. The CTA album, which sounded OK on the 80s pressing, seemed virtually unchanged by the remaster process. I was able to detect a little distortion or something on the loud horn parts, though, and after passing the ABX test I am fairly convinced that the main difference between the CDs is that the new remaster has less aggressive noise filtering. You can hear some master tape hiss, and some of that brass "splatter" is probably overloading which was obscured by the filter. So I think the new remaster is marginally better - if by "better" we mean closer to the original recording. Oddly, the phase is inverted compared to the original CD, and the gain is normalized (but not compressed). When I ABX'ed it, I had to allow the tool to match volumes to be sure I wasn't being fooled by a level shift. Chicago II, as far as I can tell, is more of the same - less filtering, and a decent transfer with no obvious compression. Still muddy sounding in places. I had heard that the DVDA (DTS) disc had been re-assembled from the original multi-tracks, so I sought a copy and brought it into the comparison as well. Here, unfortunately, is a very annoying example of what mastering engineers can do. The source is CLEARLY from a better-sounding tape than the CD issues, and the mix is spot-on. Unfortunately, the gain has been boosted a tremendous amount and clipping is visible in some of the louder parts. Overall, it's still a slight improvement because you can hear things that are obscured on the CD transfers without changing the audible balance of the instruments. But that gain compression! There isn't much dynamic range left. Fortunately, the tracks which benefit the most from the better source material (the "Ballet") aren't tremendously dynamic in the first place. It's a shame - a properly remastered CD from the tapes they used for the DTS release would be a boon. Chicago V was another example of what's being done wrong with remasters; compression without any noticeable improvement of clarity. I suspect the master of V was pretty good to begin with (my LP sounded fine), and I definitely prefer the 80s CD release of this disc. There was no reason to hack it up for the remaster. I do not have a LP or CD copy of the original Carnegie Hall discs, so I can't compare them. From looking at the waveforms and listening to the better-sounding tracks, though, I'd say that it's a well-done transfer. There's certainly no drastic compression and there is definitely dynamic range - considering that the band was playing live, there was almost certainly some limiting taking place before the recording deck and the volume needed to be above the crowd noise... issues that can be avoided in the studio. Others have said that the sound is improved, and I have no reason to dispute that. Importantly, even the peaks aren't quite at 100% which indicates that the mastering people weren't trying to get every last dB of volume out of the result at the expense of possible overload. (Why is it not normalized? I'll conjecture if anyone is interested) OK, that was probably a little longer than it needed to be, but blame it on my being an engineer and obsessed with details. ;-) Hope it was interesting to some. - -- - -- | Greg Dunn | if i was twice the man i could | | gregdunn@indy.net | be... i'd still be half of what | | The Sultan of Slack(tm) | you need. | | http://www.indy.net/~gregdunn/ | Trent Reznor | ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 22:41:16 -0800 From: "Sue Trowbridge" Subject: Re: interpretive singing On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:12 PM, bill wrote: > However no discussion of covers would be complete without mentioning one > Mark Johnathan Davis aka Richard Cheese aka frontman for Lounge Against > the Machine. My husband is a big LATM fan. A tiki bar in our neighborhood has a couple of Richard Cheese CDs in its jukebox, and playing a song by them is guaranteed to bring smiles from other patrons when they realize what they're listening to! They have proved to be real conversation starters. - --Sue ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V14 #11 **************************