From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V14 #9 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Sunday, January 11 2009 Volume 14 : Number 009 To unsubscribe: e-mail ecto-digest-request@smoe.org and put the word unsubscribe in the message body. Today's Subjects: ----------------- KB CD quailty [birdie ] Re: The Moon Whispers (gothic) [=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Elin_Bekkebr=E5ten_Sj=F8li] Re: The Moon Whispers (gothic) [=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Elin_Bekkebr=E5ten_Sj=F8li] bongo beat [=?iso-8859-1?Q?anna_maria_stj=E4rnell?= ] Re: CD quailty [morayati@email.unc.edu] Re: bongo beat [birdie ] Live artists [Adam Kimmel ] Re: Live artists [Ellen Rawson ] Re: The loudness war [Ellen Rawson ] Re: bongo beat ["Allison Crowe Music" ] curbing a campaign of defamation that is rooted in something other than music ["Allison Crowe Music" ] Re: CD burners [Doug ] Re: CD burners [Greg Dunn ] Re: The loudness war [Greg Dunn ] moocher is an old jazz term [birdie ] runaway production & immigration/ work permit issues [birdie ] dig that crazy Bongo Beat! ["Allison Crowe Music" ] Re: dig that crazy Bongo Beat! [birdie ] Re: Live artists [birdie ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 23:09:10 -0800 From: birdie Subject: KB CD quailty checked my japanese box set - it only states EMI no AAD or ADD or DDD ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 08:44:44 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Elin_Bekkebr=E5ten_Sj=F8lie?= Subject: Re: The Moon Whispers (gothic) Karen Hester wrote: > If you like "psychnoir/ alt-goth/ dark ambient/ emotronic" (as they > label themselves), you might like The Moon Whispers, Wellington NZ > band fronted by Italian Elisa Di Napoli. Very pretty! Thank you! :-D Elin - -- http://lunacia.net/ http://photos.lunacia.net/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:00:47 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Elin_Bekkebr=E5ten_Sj=F8lie?= Subject: Re: The Moon Whispers (gothic) A couple of YouTube videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGyluwXquFo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEwQab0ymgA Elin - -- http://lunacia.net/ http://photos.lunacia.net/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 00:52:47 -0800 (PST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?anna_maria_stj=E4rnell?= Subject: bongo beat Hi.. Birdie wrote.. "Bongo Beat has a roster of artists that they promote as "Sounds like...." So, if you want a Mazzy Star knock-off or an Elvis Costello (early days) knock-off and so on....go to Bongo Beat. It's like a label of fans of REAL artists who kinda rip off their style or riffs or whatever and make not as good as the real thing songs.... Derivative to the max. There's the wanna be beatnik that runs it and he's the head dude and the rest are all his wanna be somebody else's. They are promoted that way." Um..Meryn Cadell's debut was reissued by them and she's not trying to be somebody else..The stuff I've heard from their roster does have the comparisons attached to it but other labels do this too..And I greatly enjoyed Ari Shine's record and found the Bedsit Poets to be good stuff. Taste is an individual thing. And in my view Bongo Beat are better than what you say. And I doubt the artists view themselves like knock-offs. Anna ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 02:55:49 -0500 From: morayati@email.unc.edu Subject: Re: CD quailty I have a few CDs that are just of such horrible quality that it's affected my opinion of the music itself. I hate it, but it's true. The ones I can think of: The Breeders - Pod PJ Harvey - Dry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 01:45:02 -0800 From: birdie Subject: Re: bongo beat Ah well... that was there whole pitch at the International Pop Overthrow festival in Liverpool and it was on all the flyers and press - their doing. Next to every artists picture was a description that compared them to some original artist ... These are their more core bands - not the ones they just distribute. That is another matter, altogether. Ari Shine is one of their core artists and is extremely formula, generic, and mimic's whatever is popular and uses other artists styles, riffs, sound, attitude - whatever.... Ralph has fashioned himself and the label off others....in general. They are quite open about it. The bottomline is that in this economic meltdown....the original artists out there (and in my life) are not happy with the the ones who basically MOOCH off everybody else. Even Coldplay is getting sued.... I expect a lot more lawsuits and friction and social pressure and blogging etc directed at the moochers.... the record business of old was famous for it - Madonna was a hit, so they wanted 100 Madonna clones. a TV show wants a song that sounds like the Beatles, but tthey dont want to pay the Beatles the money they want and so they find some knock-off to write a Beatlesque song for CHEAP. This is where Ari Shine and Adrienne Pierce make their money. They can ape other artists and sell the faux versions at cheap prices. Now...when the real deals are having a hard time making money - you can do the math and see that many are becoming intolerant of being ripped in any way. I know, because my friends/associates fit into the real deal original category. This is a real issue that is gonna blow up this year..... So, you'll see moochers to TV licensing and real deal original artists with honest talent - out playing Live, on TV talk shows, on the radio. The moochers have myspace and TV shows, basically. I am sure there will be press on this division at some point. I have very powerful friends who are extremely important artists that have had enough of it. between the free downloads - file sharing and the moocher musicians.....and now the economy.... Everybody is gonna start fighting back now. ...on lots of levels. Waiting for the new president to get installed. Artists are up against a wall now. The live scene is rich with incrediable talent in small venues....it is extremely fruitful that way, and the competion is fierce!!! Hotel Cafe has stellar line-ups all the time.... everything is becoming local indie direct to fans real deal talent. the rest of it that is embedded in big retail chains and labels and corporate based is gonna be hurtin' and that includes TV show and film related work....the economic downturn is hitting those places the hardest. So, its a big changing picture and original artists are more than ever dissin' the moochers. Nobody i know is signing to any labels. On Jan 10, 2009, at 12:52 AM, anna maria stjdrnell wrote: > Hi.. > Birdie wrote.. > "Bongo Beat has a roster of artists that they promote as "Sounds > like...." So, if you want a Mazzy Star knock-off or an Elvis Costello > (early days) knock-off and so on....go to Bongo Beat. It's like a > label > of fans of REAL artists who kinda rip off their style or riffs or > whatever and make not as good as the real thing songs.... > Derivative to > the max. There's the wanna be beatnik that runs it and he's the head > dude and the rest are all his wanna be somebody else's. They are > promoted that way." > > Um..Meryn Cadell's debut was reissued by them and she's not trying > to be somebody else..The stuff I've heard from their roster does > have the comparisons attached to it but other labels do this > too..And I greatly enjoyed Ari Shine's record and found the Bedsit > Poets to be good stuff. > Taste is an individual thing. And in my view Bongo Beat are better > than what you say. And I doubt the artists view themselves like > knock-offs. > Anna ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 03:46:29 -0800 From: Adam Kimmel Subject: Live artists Birdie sez: > > Fans like to hear the songs as close to how they know them from the > records as possible. > > That is just a time worn reality. Actually, I have to disagree. If this were the case, we might all as well sit at home and listen to the CD while staring at a picture of the artist. Some of the best artists are those that are constantly finding fresh ways to express themselves, and looking at their songs anew. As an example: I'm not a big Dylan fan and didn't even really have much time for him until relatively recently (must have been the ecto influence on me) but one of his great gifts is that he is not only constantly reinventing himself, but also his songs. The one time I saw him, he'd taken on a Texarkana persona, and the way he played his back catalogue reflected this. A song would be playing for a while before even the die-hardest of fans recognised it and a cheer would go up. I thought it was thrilling, daring and quite refreshing. Sure, it's not going to please everyone, but if you're into an artist, surely you're into them for what they CAN do, as well as what they HAVE done? As I believe Tori Amos once said at a gig, "I'm not a f###ing jukebox". Birdie, I know you're a Carina Round fan: I don't know if you remember, but one "fan" went on her forum and complained about a recent gig in which not only were the songs not presented exactly as they wanted (she was solo that night), but also that the new songs weren't what they wanted from her. Quite rightly, she flipped, and told the fan to contact her for a refund. At the last gig I saw, she remarked on the whole thing again, calling the fan every name under the sun and saying, as she embarked on an (excellent) new song, "I hope you like my new direction". We love our artists for their individuality, for their refusal to pander to anybody's tastes but their own. If they want to go down a particular path, we have to trust them: I think that being a fan necessitates a bit of faith. If we really don't like it, we move on and either hope that they come back or that you find someone else to replace them. But we move on. Bear in mind, too, that economics often play a part: an artist can't necessarily replicate the sound of the studio, so has to find new ways to interpret their songs. Sometimes it might work for me, sometimes not. Thea Gilmore's recent tour has been an example, as she toured with simply Nigel, her guitarist/partner/muse and a cellist/violinist/guitarist. Whole new slants had to be taken on songs, and if it didn't necessarily work for me, often it did. "This Girl is Taking Bets" was one that did: as thrilling with just voice, guitar and violin as it had been with a full band. I'm as stuck in may ways as anyone can be, but I have to trust my favourite artists enough to give them room to breathe and evolve and experiment. I'll be the first to admit that I don't always. > > In fact, some would argue that the audience is king. I raised something like this earlier this year after seeing Joan Armatrading: how much does an artist owe their audience? Well, a show, certainly, and one would hope their money's worth. But is the audience king? Do we not allow our artists any freedom to dare? Do we insist on preapproving the set list, do we even get to shout out what key we want it played in? Do we get to box them in, to pigeonhole them, stunt their growth, clip their wings? Considering some of the audiences I've been part of, I'd be scared if they had the power over what the artist played and how they played it. If it were down to some of Ani Di Franco's Glastonbury audience back in '97, she wouldn't even had had men in her band! I know I often grumble when I don't get what I expect from a band but I have to accept that it's because I'm generally disgruntled, and not a symptom of the end of Western Civilization itself. Can we move on? All this negativity and musician-bashing is getting even ME down! ;-) Adam K ____________________________________________________________ GET FREE 5GB EMAIL - Check out spam free email with many cool features! Visit http://www.inbox.com/email to find out more! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 04:06:00 -0800 (PST) From: Ellen Rawson Subject: Re: Live artists - --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Adam Kimmel wrote: > > > > Fans like to hear the songs as close to how they know > them from the > > records as possible. > > > > That is just a time worn reality. > > Actually, I have to disagree. If this were the case, we > might all as well sit at home and listen to the CD while > staring at a picture of the artist. I have to agree with Adam. I want to hear the 'live' versions of the songs. I want to hear the acoustic version when the artist plays solo and doesn't have the studio band. I want to hear the longer live version with more verses. (I'm suddenly thinking of old hits, such as Fleetwood Mac's "Rhiannon"; the live version has as extra verse. How about Renaissance's live version of "Ashes of Burning" that's a whole album side on the 'Live at Carnegie Hall' album? Live, the band used that song for solos. In the studio, it was just another number.) When I lived in Boulder, I used to attend E-town tapings. (If you're in Boulder and can make an E-town taping, go. You'll get your money's worth. They usually record at least two hours and edit it down to one hour for the radio show. Some artists will continue to play after they're done recording. Chris Isaacs asked if he could continue playing. When granted permission, he performed for another 40 minutes. His sold-out show in Denver, at a larger venue, the night before cost $40. We had a much more intimate gig for $9.) Anyway, I remember the E-town when Janis Ian broke not one, but two guitar strings on the same song. She could have stopped, replaced the strings and started over, as the performance was being recorded and edited. But she kept going -- and it worked, albeit the sound obviously was a wee bit different. Okay, so I'm bringing up older songs and artists. But it's still relevant today. Not only do I want the stories between songs, I want the live versions. Richard Thompson's UK tour starts next week. I like him with a band, as he performs on his CDs, but I love him solo -- or with just Danny on string bass. The songs are different, but I like them anyway. Thea > Gilmore's recent tour has been an example, as she toured > with simply Nigel, her guitarist/partner/muse and a > cellist/violinist/guitarist. Whole new slants had to be > taken on songs, and if it didn't necessarily work for > me, often it did. "This Girl is Taking Bets" was > one that did: as thrilling with just voice, guitar and > violin as it had been with a full band. I actually prefered her on this tour than on past tours with a full band. But I'm weird. :) Ellen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 04:16:02 -0800 (PST) From: Ellen Rawson Subject: Re: The loudness war - --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Greg Dunn wrote: > Does anyone else have the import EMI pressings of her > original CD releases? Imported from where? My (British) husband bought the domestic (British) EMI recordings back when they were first released on vinyl. Are those the 'imports' of which you speak? Ellen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 08:45:24 -0800 From: "Allison Crowe Music" Subject: Re: bongo beat Birdie, you're making it obvious that your false and defamatory attacks in a campaign against Adrienne Pierce and Ari Shine is now extending to Bongo Beat. You are beyond transparent in your lies. be wise and decent, stop - Adrian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:35:02 -0800 From: "Allison Crowe Music" Subject: curbing a campaign of defamation that is rooted in something other than music For those not apprised of the situation, and, thankfully, that means most people on this list, there is personal history behind the campaign Birdie has been using this list to advance. It's not simply a matter of someone liking or not liking music or a way of promoting etc. Hopefully, the ugly background to what we're seeing the tip of the iceberg on this list - will never need to be spilled here. However, if Birdie persists in defaming and attacking people, meanly and unfairly, the background may have to be told. cheers, Adrian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:38:33 -0600 From: Carolyn Andre Subject: CD burners Vaguely related to the topics of CD quality and horrible remastering/loudness... When I built my PC, I migrated my old PlexWriter 48/24/48A and added a DVD drive. The PlexWriter has finally gotten too cranky, and I need to replace it. Was looking for two things: first, is it still advisable use a CD burner specifically for writing audio CDs (still seems logical to me, after reading specs on current optical drives and combo drives). And secondly, what are some ecto-geek recommended internal optical drives for a Windows-based PC? Thanks. Oh - and funny that the Loudness War subject just came up, because I came across the Wikipedia article on The Loudness War - I think from a prior discussion here - while searching my bookmarks for CD writer information. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war Regards, Carolyn Andre - --- candre@house-of-music.com Chicago, IL / USA Support Independent Music! Use the Internet http://house-of-music.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:46:18 -0600 From: Doug Subject: Re: CD burners I suggest you go to BensBargains.net to search for a good deal on CD burners. They often list them there for under $30. I hit that site daily. - --Doug ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 15:01:27 -0500 From: Greg Dunn Subject: Re: CD burners At 12:38 PM -0600 1/10/09, Carolyn Andre wrote: >Vaguely related to the topics of CD quality and horrible >remastering/loudness... When I built my PC, I migrated my old >PlexWriter 48/24/48A and added a DVD drive. The PlexWriter has >finally gotten too cranky, and I need to replace it. > >Was looking for two things: first, is it still advisable use a CD >burner specifically for writing audio CDs (still seems logical to >me, after reading specs on current optical drives and combo drives). >And secondly, what are some ecto-geek recommended internal optical >drives for a Windows-based PC? In my experience, good DVD burners will work just fine on CDs. The dye used is a satisfactory match to the characteristics of the lasers on each type, and just as important, modern drives seem to do a better job of calibrating the laser before burning. I've had great results with Pioneer and Lite-On drives so far; it may be entirely coincidence, but the Sony OEM drive in my G5 tower is very picky about blanks and appears to be slowly failing. I currently have a Lite-on in my G4 and a Pioneer in my gaming PC, and they burn CDs perfectly. Neither is the first of its brand that I've installed. A friend of mine has burned many CDs for me over the years with a DVD writer and they all work fine. I wouldn't hesitate to get a (quality) DVD burner and use (quality) CD blanks. Incidentally I like http://www.american-digital.com/ and http://www.tape.com/ for my media, but YMMV. >Thanks. > >Oh - and funny that the Loudness War subject just came up, because >I came across the Wikipedia article on The Loudness War - I think >from a prior discussion here - while searching my bookmarks for CD >writer information. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war A great article - thanks for linking it! - -- - -- | Greg Dunn | Seeking valid tech support from | | gregdunn@indy.net | Slashdot is like going to an Adam | | The Sultan of Slack(tm) | Sandler film for some deep, | | http://www.indy.net/~gregdunn/ | subtle wit. | ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 15:08:36 -0500 From: Greg Dunn Subject: Re: The loudness war >--- On Sat, 1/10/09, Greg Dunn wrote: > >> Does anyone else have the import EMI pressings of her >> original CD releases? > >Imported from where? My (British) husband bought the domestic >(British) EMI recordings back when they were first released on >vinyl. Are those the 'imports' of which you speak? No, these are CDs with the EMI UK info printed on the back and a catalog number beginning with "CDP7", typically marked as pressed in W Germany. I do think one of mine was pressed in Japan though. There are also releases marked as "EMI USA" and Columbia, but these are domestic US pressings as far as I can tell. - -- - -- | Greg Dunn | if i was twice the man i could | | gregdunn@indy.net | be... i'd still be half of what | | The Sultan of Slack(tm) | you need. | | http://www.indy.net/~gregdunn/ | Trent Reznor | ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:04:35 -0800 From: birdie Subject: moocher is an old jazz term nothing new there we've always used it with some lightheartedness. It is old musician lingo. Anyone remember...."Minnie The Moocher"? and I am sorry but a spade is a spade. The business is overrun with free file transfers, downloads....and there are parts of the industry where musicians have been mooching off other musicians, for ages via labels. The outgoing administration did not help the music industry. So, the mooching ran rampant and the business has kept imploding. Supporting artists directly - at live shows - and buying from them directly is throwing the best lifeline there is. A big part of the mooching will get stemmed with ISP's slowing down or cutting off internet service of people who illegally share large files. That is in the works. The whole trip created by TV producers to get music cheap for their shows "get me a Beatles soundalike" isn't going to go away, nor is the resentment it can and has created among artists. That is something that has been around a long time. I didn't invent it, and I can understand when people get upset over credit not going where it is due and so on. The part about labels wanting copy cat artists is, however, on the wane - It use to be like, say, when Nirvana was huge - all the labels wanted (and that was fed to radio) was bands that sounded like Nivana. If you had an original sound - forget it. They wouldn't look at you. You were shut out. You couldn't get signed. So, we wound up with masses of formula generic music......Britney Spears is a product of that....Madonna clone. Now, we have diversity and a great array of wonderful fresh independent original talent. The big corporate labels have lost their grip. My prediction is that these trends will continue and where government and peer pressure has fallen down on the job in the last 8 years, we will start to see some big changes ahead....finally. If Borders goes down, there should still be Barnes & Noble...but Amazon will probably be the leader. Myself, I shop at Book Soup, a fabulous indie bookstore that has managed to survive the big box retail scene that borders/B&N/Walmart and the rest belong to..... Once upon a time, there were wonderful little old neighborhood movie theatres, bookstores, record shops....remember?? then, came the big impersonal cookie cutter chains that wiped them out. The whole cookie cutter box retail outlet scene - whether its music, movies or electronics (curcuit city et al) are all getting hit by the downturn... Same story on the corporate music scene copy cat vs original artists. This means things are going more local and indie and personal and real. That leaves a lot to cheer about! Sorry if the term moocher offended anyone....but....it's a pretty tame term! Alot of what goes on is swiping rather than stealing, as the internet has created a sort of "free for all" environment..... The other aspect has to do with marketing tactics that are old school, and tired and failing in this age of a robust indie original artist scene.....the cloning or using copy cats is going out of favor. Besides, how does a Beatles copy cat compare to a Jesca Hoop - let alone The Beatles? Ones tired - not original - generic and the others are fantastically fresh and original. I am just pointing out the trends. As far as more lawsuits and organizing brought by original artists. It's unfortunate, but it's to be expected. The is a lot of pressure in this downturn. The mooching, in general, needs to be curbed. Some will say "Well, I mooch cos I love...." whatever it is they are swiping... Or that imitation is a form of flattery (because the copy is rarely as good as the original) Well, guess what? it's been killing the whole business. But, I think this year will see some major strides in getting it curbed. For one, the consumer will want the best product for the money... and, the consumer is king. So....In regards to an earlier post.... As far as my ears go - Annie Lennox's version of "Put a little love in your Heart" is the best one, my fave, and thats the one that gets my money. Lot's of others have covered it, but not like that! Why settle for a copy cat version that isn't as good as a more original version? So, it's not hard to see where the chips are falling. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:16:22 -0800 From: birdie Subject: runaway production & immigration/ work permit issues It should become more difficult for international artists to perform in the US. also, less will be inclined to come do shows in the US, when the economy is so bad. On the film front - here has been a battle to keep production from running away to Canada, Mexico, Hungary, etc and that will heat up again, as funding is down for production and more jobs than ever are needed here. producers are in a pinch - workers are in a pinch. So... Once again, the focus will be on local production/talent/work. and, indie. So, on the legal front - those issues are coming up in the new year, too. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 14:17:30 -0700 From: neal copperman Subject: Re: moocher is an old jazz term It's cool to know exactly what's going to happen in the next year or two. Thanks! neal - who is still harboring decades of resentment against The Monkees now playing: Corb Lund On Jan 10, 2009, at 2:04 PM, birdie wrote: > nothing new there > > we've always used it with some lightheartedness. It is old musician > lingo. > > Anyone remember...."Minnie The Moocher"? > > and I am sorry but a spade is a spade. > > The business is overrun with free file transfers, downloads....and > there are parts of the industry where musicians have been mooching > off other musicians, for ages via labels. > > The outgoing administration did not help the music industry. > > So, the mooching ran rampant and the business has kept imploding. > > Supporting artists directly - at live shows - and buying from them > directly is throwing the best lifeline there is. > > A big part of the mooching will get stemmed with ISP's slowing down > or cutting off internet service of people who illegally share large > files. That is in the works. > > The whole trip created by TV producers to get music cheap for their > shows "get me a Beatles soundalike" isn't going to go away, nor is > the resentment it can and has created among artists. That is > something that has been around a long time. I didn't invent it, and > I can understand when people get upset over credit not going where > it is due and so on. > > The part about labels wanting copy cat artists is, however, on the > wane - It use to be like, say, when Nirvana was huge - all the > labels wanted (and that was fed to radio) was bands that sounded > like Nivana. If you had an original sound - forget it. They wouldn't > look at you. You were shut out. You couldn't get signed. > > So, we wound up with masses of formula generic music......Britney > Spears is a product of that....Madonna clone. > > Now, we have diversity and a great array of wonderful fresh > independent original talent. > > The big corporate labels have lost their grip. > > My prediction is that these trends will continue and where > government and peer pressure has fallen down on the job in the last > 8 years, we will start to see some big changes ahead....finally. > > If Borders goes down, there should still be Barnes & Noble...but > Amazon will probably be the leader. > > Myself, I shop at Book Soup, a fabulous indie bookstore that has > managed to survive the big box retail scene that borders/B&N/Walmart > and the rest belong to..... > > Once upon a time, there were wonderful little old neighborhood movie > theatres, bookstores, record shops....remember?? then, came the big > impersonal cookie cutter chains that wiped them out. > > > The whole cookie cutter box retail outlet scene - whether its music, > movies or electronics (curcuit city et al) are all getting hit by > the downturn... > > Same story on the corporate music scene copy cat vs original artists. > > This means things are going more local and indie and personal and > real. > > That leaves a lot to cheer about! > > Sorry if the term moocher offended anyone....but....it's a pretty > tame term! > > Alot of what goes on is swiping rather than stealing, as the > internet has created a sort of "free for all" environment..... > > The other aspect has to do with marketing tactics that are old > school, and tired and failing in this age of a robust indie original > artist scene.....the cloning or using copy cats is going out of > favor. Besides, how does a Beatles copy cat compare to a Jesca Hoop > - let alone The Beatles? Ones tired - not original - generic and the > others are fantastically fresh and original. > > I am just pointing out the trends. > > As far as more lawsuits and organizing brought by original artists. > > It's unfortunate, but it's to be expected. The is a lot of pressure > in this downturn. > > The mooching, in general, needs to be curbed. > > Some will say "Well, I mooch cos I love...." whatever it is they are > swiping... > > Or that imitation is a form of flattery (because the copy is rarely > as good as the original) > > Well, guess what? it's been killing the whole business. > > But, I think this year will see some major strides in getting it > curbed. > > For one, the consumer will want the best product for the money... > > and, the consumer is king. > > So....In regards to an earlier post.... > > As far as my ears go - Annie Lennox's version of "Put a little love > in your Heart" is the best one, my fave, and thats the one that gets > my money. Lot's of others have covered it, but not like that! > > Why settle for a copy cat version that isn't as good as a more > original version? > > So, it's not hard to see where the chips are falling. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 18:47:50 -0800 From: "Allison Crowe Music" Subject: dig that crazy Bongo Beat! All the wild talk got me to wondering, who REALLY are these people being raved about? A little online reading, and it's clear that, while it should have come under less bizarre circumstances, it may still be a positive thing that Bongo Beat has been introduced to this list. Founder, Ralph Alfonso, is friend to Veda Hille, has done printing and graphics for Veda, Kinnie Starr, Bif Naked, Zulu Records and others in the alternative arts and music community in western Canada - and farther afield folks such as Dave Rave and Lauren Agnelli (Washington Squares). Calling Ralph, a goateed beatnik, who, over the years, has hand-cranked out thousands of poetry 'zines on a 1950s Getstetner, "corporate" and his friends and associated artists down, is like slamming Allen Ginsberg as an anti-gay fundamentalist Christian and calling Nader's Raider's capitalist pigs. In the late '70s Ralph ran Canada's first punk club, The Crash and Burn, in Toronto, managed The Diodes and all-round supported music in that scene. He did subsequently worked for Canadian mainstream record labels, Attic, Warners, Capitol, and Nettwerk, but, there's nothing in his tenure with those entities that would seem to indelibly mark him with the sign of the beast. Since moving to Vancouver, BC 15+ years ago, he's been a graphic artist, poet, musician, and founder of poetry and music publisher Bongo Beat. A look at the Bongo roster shows a lot that'd be of interest to ectophiles - http://www.bongobeat.com/bongoindex.php Paul Myers ( http://pulmyears.wordpress.com ), a writer for Crawdaddy, and author of "It Ain't Easy: Long John Baldry and the Birth of the British Blues", among other passionate and learned writings, in a CD review blog, has penned what may well serve as a bio for Ralph: "My friend Ralph Alfonso runs a great little indie label called Bongo Beat, based in Vancouver. Ralph is also an excellent poet and jazz cat who produces and writes the great RALPH poetry magazine and has made records with his jazz combo of the same name. Ralph has a great pedigree in alternative music, having been the manager of the Diodes back in the Toronto punk rock scene of the mid-seventies, they ran the infamous Crash and Burn club. Since then he's given a lot of his day times to graphic arts and promotion for various Canadian record companies working everything from Metal Queen Lee Aaron to Payola's Paul Hyde. While working for Vancouver's Nettwerk Productions, Ralph started up his own Bongo Beat label which slowly developed into something quite wonderful. An artist friendly micro-label that gives release to great music, often with graphics by Ralph himself. Last year, I was particularly happy to hear that Bongo Beat had released a new solo album by Vancouver's Kevin Kane (founder member of the excellent Grapes of Wrath)... In addition to re-releasing Meryn Cadell's legendary Angel Food For Thought, Bongo Beat just re-released a seven year old Kevin Kane EP that I had never heard before called Timmy Loved Judas Priest (the title should trip the memory of fans of the movie Heavy Metal Parking Lot). So I ordered it from iTunes (why not support both Kevin and Ralph!) and I have to say it was worth it. The EP is basically a bunch of low key acoustic covers of songs like "Borderline" (the Madonna song), "Our Lips Are Sealed" (GoGos) and even Brian Wilson's "God Only Knows" and Kraftwerk's under-appreciated gem, "Neon Lights" (one of my all time favourite Kraftwerk songs!). He is helped on a few backing vocals here and there, notably by Neko Case and Veda Hille. Have a listen to it at iTunes or wherever you usually go, then order it." dig it! Ad ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 19:05:59 -0800 From: "Sue Trowbridge" Subject: Re: dig that crazy Bongo Beat! On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 6:47 PM, Allison Crowe Music wrote: > All the wild talk got me to wondering, who REALLY are these people being > raved about? A little online reading, and it's clear that, while it > should have come under less bizarre circumstances, it may still be a > positive thing that Bongo Beat has been introduced to this list. My pal Anton Barbeau has also had a terrific record released on Bongo Beat (KING OF MISSOURI, 2005). There is some other cool stuff on that label: http://www.bongobeat.com I am always highly suspicious when someone who has posted numerous times PROMOTING a relatively unknown artist suddenly starts saying very negative things about that same artist. It makes me assume there was a personal falling out. - --Sue ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 19:49:26 -0800 From: birdie Subject: Re: dig that crazy Bongo Beat! Everybody can assume anything they want - But, as i think i clearly stated - she took a new direction MUSICALLY and i was far from impressed with Ari Shine - did not want a thing to do with him - and from what i briefly saw going on with Bongo Beat, they failed to impressed me, either. I caught a little of the Pop Overthrow PR they did, looked at the artists they were promoting at the time, and wasn't interested. I did not bother to look at their whole catalogue as I wasn't interested in what did see on the surface! So, no No longer promoting Adrienne Pierce. I went my way. Happy I did. I wish them the best of luck but the way i see things going with the economy - My time/effort is much better spent elsewhere and I am VERY happy with where it is being spent and do not see, where for me, I've made an error. I am sorry things have been going the way they are for her - but - I don't have a thing to do with it. I bailed at the beginning of 2008. This all came up in the worst of 2008. 2008 down 2009 coming up. Now, for all the canadians on board - come and go buy LOTS of Bongo Beat Records, cheer them on, and otherwise root for your home team!! I am sure the economic downturn here in America is gonna have a big impact there, too. I had real beatniks around me when I was a little kid, so I'm fine with my own memories and the real deal...and, had Alan Gingsberg around later in life.... The alcoholism in that crowd was intense, and it wasn't as cool as it was made out to be. But hey....who cares about the real world vs retro fantasy fan trip! hahah that's a whole other discussion. Sue Trowbridge wrote: >On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 6:47 PM, Allison Crowe Music > wrote: > > >>All the wild talk got me to wondering, who REALLY are these people being >>raved about? A little online reading, and it's clear that, while it >>should have come under less bizarre circumstances, it may still be a >>positive thing that Bongo Beat has been introduced to this list. >> >> > >My pal Anton Barbeau has also had a terrific record released on Bongo >Beat (KING OF MISSOURI, 2005). > >There is some other cool stuff on that label: http://www.bongobeat.com > >I am always highly suspicious when someone who has posted numerous >times PROMOTING a relatively unknown artist suddenly starts saying >very negative things about that same artist. It makes me assume there >was a personal falling out. > >--Sue ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:50:31 -0800 From: birdie Subject: Re: Live artists Great post, Adam. Those are all completely well taken points, but sometimes acts and movies and such just bomb. And you know, when you invite friends, and others and you get consistently the same feedback... Time to move on Then, the times change and what could have flown 3 years ago, could faceplant, today.. Everybody on the list had "worst of 2008" experiences....I'm sure.... And I both agree and disagree with you on the fans thing.... I did shows with Dylan when I was 19...and also have a friend that worked with him quite abit. So, I am very familiar with that and also, how his fans are - over the years, they got use to him!! In the early days, when he was still a huge huge star....they had expectations and even after the big shocker when he went from acoustic to electric! He'd change and they'd stay hung up on the past...by this tie, they are accepting....they get it now! But, point is...audiences DO have expectations. Everytime I see Carina, she does things differently and I don't have her songs - as recorded - etched into my being so I have no opinion about that at all. I simply take her as she comes..It's good that it is different but see....Tom and Smudge and her - I do depend on for a certain level of musicianship and they don't fail there - so.....they always deliver...make sense? You know, that was the bottomline for me - Adrienne wasn't the issue, it was the guitarist and when I saw him he was all over the place sloppy - under rehearsed - and months later in the UK - was by then overplaying and adding his own flavors, and I just don't go for the faux country flavors he was adding...let alone his voice or the style he sings in and so on....He may be a nice guy - but...hahaha....there is no way I could stand to listen to him. Or, my friends.....so....you know, she lost us here on account of him and that collaboration - still, rabbits can get pulled out of hats....and she could rebound but it isn't looking very good. But as far as 2008 went......no comparison to her previous work, at all. So, really....if Tori took up with a guitarist from Motley Crue....I could understand how her fans might not get it or like it or support it....but if they were on the same label...well... best of luck to them... Thats all I have to say about that... Songs can be redone many ways, and poorly happens to be one of them. it happens and when it does, it ends up on my "worst list" Worst of all is when you hope someone will do well, and they tank. Which is why the adrienne/ari thing ended up on my worst list... People around me had the same take, so I wasn't alone in it. I even checked with you in London and see.... it was the same response. and they were all honest. Everybody was on the same page. Sometimes, it takes awhile for the negative impression to fully register.... It can be more like a feeling that over time, proves itself to have been an accurate sign. So, I don't belittle my intuition...ever....or my instincts. Sometimes, it helps to get out of a building that is gonna collapse, before it does. :-) and sometimes, acts just tank. There's such a thing as chemistry...in the band and in the audience and those together... Oh, I missed Carina at the Crown bar in town here just before xmas...but saw her a few days before and sent her packing with some english chocolates, birds custard, and...some hobnobs...so....she had a bit of home here for the holidays.... The guy that was hollering at Carina could have been drunk for all I know, at the show in London... Normally. if there has been a hit song on the radio - you wind up with all kinds of yahoo's who will talk through the whole show til the hit comes on...or the diehard Dylan fans will want to hear Mr. Tambourine Man when he's showcasing his new material or whatever...but....from the perspective of the bigger arena shows...take Elton John and so on....they pretty much deliver the song, as expected...if that is what they expect! Grateful Dead...the fans expect something different every time! People that need coaching or rehearsal or direction - should get it and deal with the problems in private rehearsals and not on the stage....thats just common sense and courtesy! I am firm about that! If the public doesnt like the show - they just stop going to them, promoters stop promoting them, bookers stop booking them... and, the train stops....there. It's the way it goes sometimes. ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V14 #9 *************************