From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V13 #695 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Monday, December 29 2008 Volume 13 : Number 695 To unsubscribe: e-mail ecto-digest-request@smoe.org and put the word unsubscribe in the message body. Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Was Best of 2008...Now worst. [Tim Jones-Yelvington ] Re: Was Best of 2008...Now worst. [neal copperman ] Re: Was Best of 2008...Now worst. [Marypt51@aol.com] Of Borders and EP's [birdie ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 23:20:11 -0800 (PST) From: Tim Jones-Yelvington Subject: Re: Was Best of 2008...Now worst. I'd been hearing good things abt adrienne for a while, but have to say that when I saw her open for Issa I was not especially impressed. Her music seemed very simple and derivitave, her voice one-note (very little dynamic range and heavily reliant on one or two tics), her guitar playing primitive, her stage presence amateurish and her sound, in general, bland, insular, repetitive and risk-adverse. But when she sang backup on some Issa songs, there were some heavenly moments. - ----- Original Message ---- From: birdie To: Tim Jones-Yelvington Cc: morayati@email.unc.edu; ecto@smoe.org Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 5:15:08 PM Subject: Was Best of 2008...Now worst. Tim Jones-Yelvington wrote: > >...and if we're doing disappointments, need to talk about Sarah Slean. Oy. > > > > > Let's go for it! Adrienne Pierce (former Sheeba worker and opener for Jane Siberry) - her last CD, produced by Nettwerk (back before it fell) and the talented Jeff Trott & Thom Russo - Faultline - had a crack crew of some of the best hired studio guns in town (players known to work with Beck and others)... But the new "Winter" EP recycled two old xmas songs (delightfully crafted and produced) and added 4 new ones, produced DIY in a cabin with a generic copycat meets sunset blvd rocker wanna be, Ari Shine (think Tommy Lee wanna be clone). Somehow Adrienne Pierce seems to have taken off with the hollywood sucking up to Paris Hilton crowd, but producing things low-fi & rinky dink!! Talk about career suicide. The production, with instrumentation by Ari Shine, leaves the listener thinking they've been handed a teenagers home demo. Rough demo's had a purpose, they were used to pitch songs to performers and producers, who could actually make something wonderful out of them....but they were never meant for the public to hear or be sold. There are a number of songwriters who don't have the chops to be performers and carry a band or live shows, successfully....but they do fine. banging out low-fi demo's and collecting co-writer credits for pitching in alongside other more talented writers. Let's just say, they do well in the smooze dept. Adrienne writes great songs but requires support that, at least, compliments her style! This is like if someone put Hope Sandoval (mazzy star) together with Tommy Lee (pamela andersen et al) and for a xmas CD, Um. This one might take the cake for people formerly known as Artist's making bad choices to sell out and go commerical. Very sad situation. Available only at Borders. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 00:46:41 -0800 From: birdie Subject: Re: Was Best of 2008...Now worst. Tim Jones-Yelvington wrote: >I'd been hearing good things abt adrienne for a while, but have to say that when I saw her open for Issa I was not especially impressed. Her music seemed very simple and derivitave, her voice one-note (very little dynamic range and heavily reliant on one or two tics), her guitar playing primitive, her stage presence amateurish and her sound, in general, bland, insular, repetitive and risk-adverse. > >But when she sang backup on some Issa songs, there were some heavenly moments. > > > I encouraged her to get a looping station, expand her instrumentation - autoharp to uke, use interesting backing trks via her Mac... Her songs - as recorded - are complex and dimensional - and with the right arranger/programmer for Mac and a looping station and tossing in some interesting instruments - she could have a divine stage show. Seriously. But, she was already in gear to head off with mr rocker generic dude who *did not* have the ear feel or background to properly support her and in fact, made the qualities most of us here would disdain, come out more..... They supported all the qualities in each other that you mentioned above....except she knew her songs and he sounded like he should have been left locked in his bedroom. So, I bailed..... Now don't get me wrong - there was FABULOUS potential there but she bypassed working at home on developing a real act with backing trks, loops, samples, new instruments or even finding a very cool player that could actually support her her best qualities.... I guess insecurities, quick fun and keeping it easy - not growing - seems more attractive at times but man...that is exactly how artists can run themselves right off the road into oblivion. I saw it coming.....but so, likewise, if she can do some homework - find a brill programmer/arranger with some great taste - and present a more varied dynamic dimensional show - it's all just sitting there in the songs needing to be pulled out - She'd do very well!!! So, knowing that - it made it all the more of a waste. Hopefully, she can revamp - retool - get rid of mr rocker dude - and get back to what made her two CD's so great....or just stop touring.....she did herself no favors the last go around. It happens.....but the way the economy is going - you know - its gonna be the survival of the fittest out there and I suspect The Paper Raincoat, Lelia Broussard, My Brightest Diamond, Rachael Sage, Jesca Hoop, Sara Bareielles, Hotel Cafe crowd and so on - will survive whatever the next year and more dishes out. Real players, really great songs, really interesting, refreshing, uplifting.... generic anything....forget it...people will probably just let their TV's die except for downloads, DVD's, internet.... It's all gonna get pared down to indies who can make it on their own. All the corporate stuff - TV, Film, Music is really in DEEP trouble and it will be getting much worse. The are losing funding and they are losing audiences. I don't mind generic prefab junk taking a hit....mind you - but there is a trickle down effect... That said, we will get through the upcoming great depression with good friends and great music and much of it live and much of it bought straight from the artists.... Anyway, it's too bad about Adrienne and hopefully, she will be able to make some big changes....otherwise......this is really the beginning of the end for her. As for Issa? Will she ever record again? Tour again? Who knows. But, I am gonna keep my ears on and stay honest about things, ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 01:54:05 -0700 From: neal copperman Subject: Re: Was Best of 2008...Now worst. On Dec 28, 2008, at 1:46 AM, birdie wrote: > As for Issa? Will she ever record again? Tour again? Who knows. She has a brand new CD called Dragon Dreams. I just got it for the holidays (thanks Jeff!), but haven't listened yet. neal ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 13:08:46 EST From: Marypt51@aol.com Subject: Re: Was Best of 2008...Now worst. In a message dated 12/28/08 4:09:29 AM, birdies@ix.netcom.com writes: > Tim Jones-Yelvington wrote: > > >I'd been hearing good things abt adrienne for a while, but have to say that > when I saw her open for Issa I was not especially impressed. Her music > seemed very simple and derivitave, her voice one-note (very little dynamic range > and heavily reliant on one or two tics), her guitar playing primitive, her > stage presence amateurish and her sound, in general, bland, insular, repetitive > and risk-adverse. > > > >But when she sang backup on some Issa songs, there were some heavenly > moments. > > > > > > > I encouraged her to get a looping station, expand her instrumentation - > autoharp to uke, use interesting backing trks via her Mac... > > Her songs - as recorded - are complex and dimensional - and with the > right arranger/programmer for Mac and a looping station and tossing in > some interesting instruments - she could have a divine stage show. > > Seriously. > > But, she was already in gear to head off with mr rocker generic dude who > *did not* have the ear feel or background to properly support her and in > fact, made the qualities most of us here would disdain, come out more..... > > They supported all the qualities in each other that you mentioned > above....except she knew her songs and he sounded like he should have > been left locked in his bedroom. > > So, I bailed..... > > Now don't get me wrong - there was FABULOUS potential there but she > bypassed working at home on developing a real act with backing trks, > loops, samples, new instruments or even finding a very cool player that > could actually support her her best qualities.... > > I guess insecurities, quick fun and keeping it easy - not growing - > seems more attractive at times but man...that is exactly how artists can > run themselves right off the road into oblivion. > > I saw it coming.....but so, likewise, if she can do some homework - find > a brill programmer/arranger with some great taste - and present a more > varied dynamic dimensional show - it's all just sitting there in the > songs needing to be pulled out - She'd do very well!!! > > So, knowing that - it made it all the more of a waste. > > Hopefully, she can revamp - retool - get rid of mr rocker dude - and get > back to what made her two CD's so great....or just stop touring.....she > did herself no favors the last go around. > > It happens.....but the way the economy is going - you know - its gonna > be the survival of the fittest out there and I suspect The Paper > Raincoat, Lelia Broussard, My Brightest Diamond, Rachael Sage, Jesca > Hoop, Sara Bareielles, Hotel Cafe crowd and so on - will survive > whatever the next year and more dishes out. > > Real players, really great songs, really interesting, refreshing, > uplifting.... generic anything....forget it...people will probably just > let their TV's die except for downloads, DVD's, internet.... > > It's all gonna get pared down to indies who can make it on their own. > All the corporate stuff - TV, Film, Music is really in DEEP trouble and > it will be getting much worse. The are losing funding and they are > losing audiences. > > I don't mind generic prefab junk taking a hit....mind you - but there is > a trickle down effect... > > That said, we will get through the upcoming great depression with good > friends and great music and much of it live and much of it bought > straight from the artists.... > > Anyway, it's too bad about Adrienne and hopefully, she will be able to > make some big changes....otherwise......this is really the beginning of > the end for her. > > As for Issa? Will she ever record again? Tour again? Who knows. > > But, I am gonna keep my ears on and stay honest about things, > I didn't hear this Adrienne person's work, but as to the complaints above, I can't say that the failure to use loops and backing tracks would cause me to dislike a person's work. For some, the simpler, less artificial a work is, the more powerful and real. It depends on the person's talent and ability to convey feeling with what they record. I wouldn't want to hear, for example, a great gospel or blues singer drowned in atmospheric loop trappings. There are performers who have the ability to move people a capella, for that matter, more than some with full orchestration depending on what they sing and how they sing it. I'll assume this Adrienne person wouldn't sound strong enough without tons of loops and samples though since you have heard her and I have not, and I will take your word for it. Some people may sound better that way. Although I might have certain instrumentation preferences, I try to listen with a mind to receive what an artist is trying to express. If they seem like they are trying and inspired, I will usually feel something from it. I don't necessarily need an artist to load up on layered complexities to sense some magic. There are those who are good at atmospheric layering, which is part of their self expression, and that is great too, but I don't expect everyone to do the same mode of expression. Also sometimes artifice gets on my nerves. In the late 1980s, many bands were into synthetic drums, a very popular trend at the time. I preferred the old fashioned non-synthetic drums during that period. But I tried not to hold it against those who insisted on using them at the time even though I found the synth drums had a phony sound to them that I tried to put aside in focusing on what realness and energy did come through from the singer. Also some artists start out more derivative than they wind up (including the Beatles, who started out playing covers); there is a period of development that people go through. For some, interpreting the songs of others may be what their gift is, but for others, creating increasingly complex original works may be their path. I don't think one gift is superior to another. Everybody has a different gift including those who are not musically inclined. Deciding something is "better" than something else is a matter of personal preference. I try not to put limits on what other people feel happy doing because I realize my ideas might change what they're trying to get at in a bad way by dictating what's best for them. I'm a little shy of being critical though but maybe criticism is good and I am too fearful of that. The few times I've ever uttered a criticism of some artist in the past I have usually come to both change my mind and also to regret having made the comment so my timidity shouldn't make others afraid to opine. And you're right, sometimes a good producer can pull some interesting sounds from an artist. Mary (a longtime appreciative lurker) ************** One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolc om00000025) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 13:37:59 -0800 From: birdie Subject: Of Borders and EP's So, I am curious.. Does any one here music shop at Borders? A number of years ago, they were a cool place for artists with a unique place in the musical landscape to be attached to and do in- store shows....some even went on Borders tours. But that was years back, and how people buy music has changed SO much since then and live venues have changed, as well. In Los Angeles, we have Hotel Cafe, Room 5, Tangier, and others venues which have filled the same niche but in a far far cooler and better way. So, I think the Borders time has come and gone. EP's are an interesting animal. A number of songwriters use them to put out garage band demo's, to help finance a whole CD - hopefully properly recorded, at a later date. They can double as song demo's - to pitch to artists with record deals and/or producers attached who could cover a song, and create a professional quality product. Then, there are EP's - which are.....simply EP's. They are not presented as a early sneak peek at songs they are selling in the EP to help fund fabulously finished versions in a CD or to pitch as song demos. They are...EP's that are stand alone products, quality productions, with songs that could be aired on the radio and in otherwise professional environments. Lelia Broussard has a new EP out and the production is fabulous. She executive produced it (100% self financed via her art) - the songs are all great and are ready for radio and other play. It was recorded, live, in the studio and sounds like a "Dusty in Memphis" - neither sound like homemade garageband demos..... They sound like wonderfully rich full amazing songs....and forever, classics. SO....It's really all about the talent and the technology and the work ethics of artists and not about the money...whether you have an amazing sounding EP or not. Incrediable music can be produced for very little these days. A great song & singer is evident with just a guitar or any single instrument. On the otherhand, you can throw 2 people together who can't see past their own noses, who will produce something that sounds like 2 people making music in the same room but not jiving. The song might be good, but.....that kind of production shows bad work ethics and will drive anyone with a pair of good ears, crazy. You know the ones - nice song, crappy production. I am happy supporting the early versions of songs, on EP's, to help fund CD's. It is a known avenue of support for artists and if the nice song - crappy production issue is there, it hopefully gets worked out for the CD. Better producer, better gear, better player....you fix what the problem was and improve it for the CD. That is a healthy work ethic. Or, get it right the first time and use EP's, as Advance Singles...... In Lelia's case, her EP is like getting a copy of a few advance singles and a b-side. It is brilliant PR for her upcoming CD. With so much variety out there, I guess at the end of the day, it is important for the artist to explain the purpose of the EP, and what it represents in their journey. Haha - this is where the internet is so great as they can all be presented, letting the listener know, what exactly the deal is with the EP - haha... Some of them are complete treasures and capture things that get mowed over in production for the CD versions... But, I guess cos since there is such a flood of garageband demos floating about on myspace & youtube...I am growing weary of the EP. I think the sounds of The Paper Raincoat, Simon & Garfunkel, Pete Seeger, (Acoustic era) Everything but the Girl....you know....fabulous music has never been confined to major studios and crack session players...It really is all about the singer and the song.... So, no matter how the technology changes or that you can hear every bedroom musician now playing from their bedroom to yours on Youtube.... Hopefully, our year end lists will reveal the gems found in EP's - as is or waiting to be transformed into them. I just wish there wasn't such a glut of poorly produced (musically) music out there now - everyone and their brother has garageband. ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V13 #695 ***************************