From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V13 #452 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Wednesday, April 9 2008 Volume 13 : Number 452 To unsubscribe: e-mail ecto-digest-request@smoe.org and put the word unsubscribe in the message body. Today's Subjects: ----------------- Today's your birthday, friend... [Mike Matthews ] Re: nomination; i would've preferred if someone else did it, but if no one else... ["Alexander Johannesen" ] Re: Goddess lists ["Henning Rech" ] Issa/Jane ["Karen Hester" ] Re: nomination; i would've preferred if someone else did it, but if no one else... [jjhan] Re: Thoughts on Goddess worship [CollectedSounds ] Re: Issa/Jane [morayati@email.unc.edu] Re: nomination; i would've preferred if someone else did it, but if no one else... ["robert bristow-johnson" ] Re: nomination; i would've preferred if someone else did it, but if no one else... [Tim Jones-Yelvington ] Re: Thoughts on Goddess worship [Doug ] the original ecto Goddesses ["Karen Hester" ] Re: Thoughts on Goddess worship [Tim Jones-Yelvington ] listening to older music ["Karen Hester" ] Re: Camille Paglia on Kate Bush [Ellen Rawson ] Re: Thoughts on Goddess worship ["Jeffrey Burka" ] Re: Issa/Jane ["Aly Fields" ] Re: the original ecto Goddesses ["Aly Fields" ] Magdalen Hsu-Li ["Aly Fields" ] Re: Magdalen Hsu-Li [morayati@email.unc.edu] if being a rule-breaker means self-nomination is just "not done" (said with upper class UK accent), oh well, that's fiercely independent for you [] RE: Goddess lists [JoAnn Whetsell ] Re: Goddess lists ["Aly Fields" ] RE: listening to older music ["Michael Quinn" ] RE: Goddess lists [JoAnn Whetsell ] Re: Goddess lists ["Aly Fields" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 03:00:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Matthews Subject: Today's your birthday, friend... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ********************** Jill Hughes (Riphug@aol.com) *********************** *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Jill Hughes Sat April 09 1955 Aries Klaus Kluge Sun April 10 1960 Unicorn Steve VanDevender Sun April 10 1966 Racer Art Liestman Fri April 10 1953 Repeat Stephen Golden Sat April 10 1971 Jokey Michael Bowman Wed April 11 1962 Aries Wolfgang Ullwer Fri April 11 1969 Widder Janet Kirsch Thu April 11 1974 Aries Kristen Scallion Fri April 12 1974 Aries Jerry Tue April 13 1971 Aries Stuart Myerburg Mon April 14 1969 Aries T-Bone Wed April 15 1992 happy cat Jeff Hanson Sat April 16 1966 Aries Michael Klouda Mon April 17 1967 Aries Noe Venable Tue April 20 1976 Aries Harry Foster Sat April 21 1956 NiceGuy Kjetil Torgrim Homme Thu April 23 1970 Taurus Jeff Burka Thu April 24 1969 GoFlyAKite Christine Waite Tue April 25 1972 Taurus Matt Adams Thu April 26 1962 Taurus Brad Hutchinson Tue April 28 1964 What sign? Geoff Parks Sun April 30 1961 Taurus Marty Lash Sat May 01 1948 Taurus Barney Parker Fri May 02 1986 happy cat Gray Abbott Tue May 03 1955 Suprised Tamar Boursalian Tue May 03 1966 Taurus Richard A. Holmes May 07 Taurus Steve Ito Fri May 08 1970 DA Bull... Brian Gregory Thu May 09 1963 Eclectic Catherine Sundnes Sat May 09 1970 Very Catzy - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 09:15:25 +0200 From: "Alexander Johannesen" Subject: Re: nomination; i would've preferred if someone else did it, but if no one else... On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 12:12 AM, neal copperman wrote: > I've kind of wondered about that too. Clearly there are artists working in > those styles. Are they having as strong an impact on people today as those > albums had on many of us in the 80's and 90's? I just got to add here that when I fell in love with Happy Rhodes (not that long ago) and displayed her to my wife, she said "more 80's music, eh?" For me, Happy is the essence of the whatever the 80's were good for, like an ethereal amalgam of where I came from and where I'm going. I don't really follow any of the other godesses (I have a Kate album or two somewhere). Another question is if Bjxrk wasn't so poppy, would she be a godess? Alex - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Project Wrangler, SOA, Information Alchemist, UX, RESTafarian, Topic Maps - ------------------------------------------ http://shelter.nu/blog/ -------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 10:37:32 +0200 From: "Marcel Rijs" Subject: Re: Goddesses Dear all, I'm always a bit monotheistic, even though I consider both Kate Bush and Happy Rhodes to be Goddesses. I'm really curious about this voting idea, I'm also very curious about the outcome. I dunno if I can come up with ten (!) goddesses, and maybe that should be taken into account if a voting process is organised. Otherwise it would just become a 'goddesses-plus-a-few-mere-mortals'-list. :-) M. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 13:01:12 -0000 From: "Henning Rech" Subject: Re: Goddess lists > Frankly, I think the list on the ectoguide should be labelled as "the > original ecto Goddesses" or "the first ecto Goddesses" or something > similar, and then left alone. I think this is a good idea. Each of us may then have his own small family altar with his private goddesses. Henning ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 09:28:39 -0400 From: "Karen Hester" Subject: Issa/Jane I meant that solely as a musical comment - Issa's music is much less ecto to me than Jane's. If Happy had made 3 albums continuing the electronics of Many Worlds, I'd class them as less traditional ecto too - maybe just as good as, but different genre. I divide Jane into - - very early/a bit folky - - Mid-Jane (with a subset of Pure Jane - Borders, Speckless, The Walking) = very Ecto - - When I was a boy = very Ecto too - - Maria, the first step into jazzy Issa territory The Issa change maybe provoked more amused eye-rolling than animosity? K. > From: morayati@email.unc.edu > Forgive me, but I've wondered this for a while now - what's the whole > Jane/not Issa thing about? I know about the name change, but I've > noticed a bit of...well, for the lack of a better word, animosity. > > - -Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:51:19 +0000 From: jjhanson@att.net Subject: Re: nomination; i would've preferred if someone else did it, but if no one else... To me, Diamanda definitely falls on the fierce side of beautiful and fierce (with very few moments of beauty)--however, that doesn't mean what she does isn't extremely powerful and artistic. I'm still hoping that some day she releases another album like The Singer. Jeff - -------------- Original message from Timothy Jones-Yelvington : -------------- > I think sometimes Diamanda is deliberately ugly. Which I think is beautiful. > > > On 4/8/08 5:39 PM, "Aly Fields" wrote: > > > Yes, but what is beautiful and fierce meant to be anyway? What about > > Diamanda Galas? > > > > On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 6:12 PM, neal copperman wrote: > > > >> At 5:27 PM -0400 4/8/08, Karen Hester wrote: > >> > >>> On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 4:56 PM, neal copperman wrote: > >>> > >>>> See, I'm not sure I agree with that. (As if we are all going to > >>>> agree > >>>> anyway!) > >>>> > >>> > >>> I've decided that I agree with you, rather than with myself :) > >>> > >> > >> Let me try to win you back to your side! :) > >> > >> I worry that the core is a somewhat historical group, representing the > >>> tastes of those of us who came into our music infatuation during the > >>> 80s/early 90s, but perhaps that's best - non-interventionist Goddesses > >>> can't embarrass themselves with bad new albums! > >>> > >> > >> I've kind of wondered about that too. Clearly there are artists working > >> in those styles. Are they having as strong an impact on people today as > >> those albums had on many of us in the 80's and 90's? > >> > >> One possible explanation is that the core artists were kind of forging a > >> new sound/style that opened up how people listened. There are people that > >> continue to do that, but it all sounds really different then how the ecto > >> folk did it. And their fans are spinning off in their own directions. > >> > >> I don't think 'Beautiful and Fierce' applies to Sarah - very very > >>> pretty, and as fierce as a puppy in a tissue paper advert. But she > >>> can be a Goddess for services rendered to women in music. > >>> > >> > >> I actually meant that was the place to point people to for suggestions on > >> artists like PJ Harvey and Kristin Hersh. > >> > >> neal ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 09:01:52 -0500 From: CollectedSounds Subject: Re: Thoughts on Goddess worship On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 3:59 PM, wrote: > To me, the term "goddess" implies someone that evokes such a fevered > level of fandom that their fan's love is likely to border on religious > fervor-- > encouraging them to go evangelize and praise the virtues of the artist. Exactly! That's what I think as well. So for that, Sarah McLachlan will always be a goddess to me. I don't care if she hasn't done anything in recent years. I don't care if Surfacing was awful (IMHO, of course...sorry Sarah, love you!!), she inspired me to create my website and do house concerts, and everything else I do for music. So her work has been very valuable to me (and to others). My life has definitely changed since being exposed to her music and has made me become what my husband calls a "musical evangelist". So even if she never does anything else (which is unlikely) she will always be a goddess to me. Amy Collected Sounds www.collectedsounds.com blog.collectedsounds.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 08:26:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Ellen Rawson Subject: Karine Polwart Hey there, I saw Karine Polwart last night at the Bloomsbury Theatre in London (lovely venue, btw), and she was honestly quite surprised by the number of people who turned out to see her. (It was a pretty full house.) I think she's still surprised that people like her, they really like her. And there's a reason for it. She's great live. I like her albums, but she's even better live -- there's something about her -- she's fresh and earnest -- that's caught better live than in the studio. Anyway, it was a great night. Ellen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 11:47:47 -0400 From: morayati@email.unc.edu Subject: Re: Issa/Jane Ah, OK. I was just confused (and not all that familiar with her back catalogue). - -Sarah Quoting Karen Hester : > I meant that solely as a musical comment - Issa's music is much less > ecto to me than Jane's. If Happy had made 3 albums continuing the > electronics of Many Worlds, I'd class them as less traditional ecto > too - maybe just as good as, but different genre. > > I divide Jane into > - very early/a bit folky > - Mid-Jane (with a subset of Pure Jane - Borders, Speckless, The > Walking) = very Ecto > - When I was a boy = very Ecto too > - Maria, the first step into jazzy Issa territory > > The Issa change maybe provoked more amused eye-rolling than animosity? > > K. > >> From: morayati@email.unc.edu >> Forgive me, but I've wondered this for a while now - what's the whole >> Jane/not Issa thing about? I know about the name change, but I've >> noticed a bit of...well, for the lack of a better word, animosity. >> >> - -Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 12:02:46 -0400 From: "robert bristow-johnson" Subject: Re: nomination; i would've preferred if someone else did it, but if no one else... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alexander Johannesen" > To: "neal copperman" > Subject: Re: nomination; i would've preferred if someone else did it, but if no one else... > Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 09:15:25 +0200 > > I just got to add here that when I fell in love with Happy Rhodes (not > that long ago) and displayed her to my wife, she said "more 80's > music, eh?" For me, Happy is the essence of the whatever the 80's were > good for, boy, that's an association i had never made (nor expect to). Happy's music and the eighties? the 80s are the B52s, the Talking Heads. Ronald Reagan and the rise of the religious right in the US. oh, okay Bowie had some presence in the 80s, but he's from earlier than that. > like an ethereal amalgam of where I came from and where I'm going. ... Windham Hill? i don't get it. the allusion to KaTe is clear, but she predates the 80s also. - -- r b-j rbj@audioimagination.com "Imagination is more important than knowledge." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 11:43:16 -0500 From: kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white) Subject: re: nominations... Hi, do I remember correctly that there was a pantheon of Goddess and Gods and a list of Demigods? Demigods are still more ( Ectoish) than mere mortals. Also, my main God has been/is Shawn Phillips with (I forget) 3 octaves in his range, tho only wordless tones were his vehicle of choice when he went high. Anyone else [here] familiar with Mr Phillips?? Bye, me KrW KrW I'm Peter Pan! I'm perpetually young!! OW!! What's wrong with my back? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 09:53:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Tim Jones-Yelvington Subject: Re: Issa/Jane You should download her back catalogue. It is magnificent, and all of it is self-determined pricing. At least download "The Walking." tim morayati@email.unc.edu wrote: Ah, OK. I was just confused (and not all that familiar with her back catalogue). - -Sarah Quoting Karen Hester : > I meant that solely as a musical comment - Issa's music is much less > ecto to me than Jane's. If Happy had made 3 albums continuing the > electronics of Many Worlds, I'd class them as less traditional ecto > too - maybe just as good as, but different genre. > > I divide Jane into > - very early/a bit folky > - Mid-Jane (with a subset of Pure Jane - Borders, Speckless, The > Walking) = very Ecto > - When I was a boy = very Ecto too > - Maria, the first step into jazzy Issa territory > > The Issa change maybe provoked more amused eye-rolling than animosity? > > K. > >> From: morayati@email.unc.edu >> Forgive me, but I've wondered this for a while now - what's the whole >> Jane/not Issa thing about? I know about the name change, but I've >> noticed a bit of...well, for the lack of a better word, animosity. >> >> - -Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 09:52:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Tim Jones-Yelvington Subject: Re: nomination; i would've preferred if someone else did it, but if no one else... I think the 80's in Europe may have been slightly less abyssmal, with a bit more of a focus on progressive rock and pop. I can say that I've met several European Happy & Kate fans who also gravitate toward more mainstream but still smart (in my opninion) pop from that period and into the early 90's, including Shakespear's Sister, (selected) Kylie Minogue, Sugarcubes, etc. robert bristow-johnson wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alexander Johannesen" > To: "neal copperman" > Subject: Re: nomination; i would've preferred if someone else did it, but if no one else... > Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 09:15:25 +0200 > > I just got to add here that when I fell in love with Happy Rhodes (not > that long ago) and displayed her to my wife, she said "more 80's > music, eh?" For me, Happy is the essence of the whatever the 80's were > good for, boy, that's an association i had never made (nor expect to). Happy's music and the eighties? the 80s are the B52s, the Talking Heads. Ronald Reagan and the rise of the religious right in the US. oh, okay Bowie had some presence in the 80s, but he's from earlier than that. > like an ethereal amalgam of where I came from and where I'm going. ... Windham Hill? i don't get it. the allusion to KaTe is clear, but she predates the 80s also. - -- r b-j rbj@audioimagination.com "Imagination is more important than knowledge." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 18:43:11 +0200 From: leon Subject: Re: goddess voting? Perhaps only artists of whom you are a TrueFan(tm) should be included in such a vote.. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 13:14:22 -0500 From: Doug Subject: Re: Thoughts on Goddess worship > I don't care if Surfacing was awful (IMHO, of course...sorry Sarah, love you!!) Awful? Ouch, tough crowd! - --Doug ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 14:50:05 -0400 From: "Karen Hester" Subject: the original ecto Goddesses (as wrote the sensible Michael) Yes, that sounds right. I think of archetypal ecto as Kate (and immediate successors), and the ethereal side of 4AD (Cocteau, DCD), and both have a specific place in the chronology of music, 'forging a new sound/style.' Newer artists following in their footsteps will either sound like a non-innovative throwback, or will also be influenced by other types of music, like dance (Bjork, Massive Attack, Goldfrapp, Dido) or 90s alt/grunge (PJ Harvey, trio Muses). A musician who grows up listening to Kate rather than the music Kate grew up with can't help but be different. And if Kate and Tori were more influenced by recent music, their dance remixes wouldn't be so crap :) (I enjoy Kate's more). K. > From: neal copperman > One possible explanation is that the core artists were kind of > forging a new sound/style that opened up how people listened. There > are people that continue to do that, but it all sounds really > different then how the ecto folk did it. And their fans are spinning > off in their own directions. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 11:59:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Tim Jones-Yelvington Subject: Re: Thoughts on Goddess worship Seriously. What does that make Afterglow? Godawful abyssmal? Doug wrote: > I don't care if Surfacing was awful (IMHO, of course...sorry Sarah, love you!!) Awful? Ouch, tough crowd! - --Doug ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 11:53:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Alberto Subject: Camille Paglia on Kate Bush Every couple of months, uber-intellectual, feminist Camille Paglia answers readers' questions on her Salon.com blog. This from the latest... (The YouTube link is disabled but you can look it up) - ------- I have wondered for a long time what your take is on the artistry and persona of Kate Bush, the singer/songwriter/visual artist from England, if you've had an opportunity to hear or see her work. Bruce V. Bracken I have enormous admiration for Kate Bush as a true artist who has done work of the highest quality in a dazzling variety of media. In the 1980s and '90s, I was irritated by the adulation given Laurie Anderson, with her cutesy postmodernist game playing, and I often protested that, as a performance artist, Kate Bush had infinitely more depth and vision. However, except for a few music videos, Bush was simply not as visible a presence in the U.S. as she was and is in the U.K. It has certainly been our loss. Ambitious young performers need to be exposed to her work. Here from trusty YouTube is Kate Bush's brilliant, haunting song "Running up That Hill," with its skittering vocal echoes and ominous military tattoo. Bush puts on a boffo exhibition of her mastery of modern dance, and the whole thing ends in a surreal procession of Jungian masks multiplied in starkly high-tech corridors. Bush is a sorceress with a poet's instinct for the archaic and universal. Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 15:01:59 -0400 From: "Karen Hester" Subject: listening to older music Thanks Aly, Sarah. I'm glad 'younger ectophiles' can enjoy Kate and Happy without thinking "it might be a great song, but the production is so dated, I can't listen to it..." I find Rearmament (and some of Kate's Fairlight) a bit hard because of the olde keyboard sound. Do young Goths who came into music with Marilyn Manson giggle at the Sisters of Mercy's drum machine and dismiss the Cure as light pop? My teenage favs Cocteaus, Muses, Jesus and Mary Chain, the Smiths, Kate etc all produced albums that pre-dated my musical obsession and I loved those older albums just like their newer ones. However, I find it hard to hear most earlier rock music (60s, early 70s) with fresh ears. Lots of reasons: - - sounds dated (esp electronic, but other instruments have changed) - - sounds like childhood radio staples, and my ears say "boooring" and don't listen closely - - aversion to one's parents' music (kill their idols, etc) - - prefer current genres (I'm a post-punk kid, not post-prog) - - infatuation with the new - - like to support active artists, and go to shows - - lack of need to go back cos there's so much new stuff I'm like this with books too. Some of my happiest reading experiences have been with Dickens, but he's always there so I don't feel compelled to read all his books now, and instead this month read New Yorkers (cover to cover), Oliver Sacks on music, Dave Eggers and Charles Stross (near future SF needs to be read near its publication date!). K. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 12:20:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Ellen Rawson Subject: Re: Camille Paglia on Kate Bush - --- Alberto wrote: > Every couple of months, uber-intellectual, feminist > Camille Paglia answers readers' questions on her > Salon.com blog. This from the latest... (The YouTube > link is disabled but you can look it up) Paglia likes Kate Bush? Oh dear. :( Sorry, I just don't have any respect for Camille Paglia, but I have a lot of respect for Kate Bush. Ellen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 15:40:47 -0400 From: "Jeffrey Burka" Subject: Re: Thoughts on Goddess worship tim sez: > Seriously. What does that make Afterglow? Godawful abyssmal? Actually, I liked _Afterglow_ quite a bit more than _Surfacing_, though that's really not saying much. Seeing these have inspired me to go re-read my review of _Surfacing_ on the Ectophile's Guide. I wrote that roughly 11 years ago...and don't think I'd change a word of it now. And it seems I was pretty brutal back then. jeff n.p. _Plans_, Death Cab for Cutie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 15:50:39 -0400 From: "Aly Fields" Subject: Re: Issa/Jane I agree with Tim. *The Walking* is amazing. *grins, looks at her email address* On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 12:53 PM, Tim Jones-Yelvington wrote: > You should download her back catalogue. It is magnificent, and all of it > is self-determined pricing. > > At least download "The Walking." > > tim > > morayati@email.unc.edu wrote: > Ah, OK. I was just confused (and not all that familiar with her back > catalogue). > > -Sarah > > Quoting Karen Hester : > > > I meant that solely as a musical comment - Issa's music is much less > > ecto to me than Jane's. If Happy had made 3 albums continuing the > > electronics of Many Worlds, I'd class them as less traditional ecto > > too - maybe just as good as, but different genre. > > > > I divide Jane into > > - very early/a bit folky > > - Mid-Jane (with a subset of Pure Jane - Borders, Speckless, The > > Walking) = very Ecto > > - When I was a boy = very Ecto too > > - Maria, the first step into jazzy Issa territory > > > > The Issa change maybe provoked more amused eye-rolling than animosity? > > > > K. > > > >> From: morayati@email.unc.edu > >> Forgive me, but I've wondered this for a while now - what's the whole > >> Jane/not Issa thing about? I know about the name change, but I've > >> noticed a bit of...well, for the lack of a better word, animosity. > >> > >> - -Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 15:54:55 -0400 From: "Aly Fields" Subject: Re: the original ecto Goddesses I agree with pretty much everything you said :) On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 2:50 PM, Karen Hester wrote: > (as wrote the sensible Michael) > > Yes, that sounds right. I think of archetypal ecto as Kate (and > immediate successors), and the ethereal side of 4AD (Cocteau, DCD), > and both have a specific place in the chronology of music, 'forging a > new sound/style.' Newer artists following in their footsteps will > either sound like a non-innovative throwback, or will also be > influenced by other types of music, like dance (Bjork, Massive Attack, > Goldfrapp, Dido) or 90s alt/grunge (PJ Harvey, trio Muses). A > musician who grows up listening to Kate rather than the music Kate > grew up with can't help but be different. > > And if Kate and Tori were more influenced by recent music, their dance > remixes wouldn't be so crap :) (I enjoy Kate's more). > > K. > > > From: neal copperman > > One possible explanation is that the core artists were kind of > > forging a new sound/style that opened up how people listened. There > > are people that continue to do that, but it all sounds really > > different then how the ecto folk did it. And their fans are spinning > > off in their own directions. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 16:00:10 -0400 From: "Aly Fields" Subject: Magdalen Hsu-Li I was pleased to see that she was in the Ectoguide, and especially under all of the ways I would have chosen to classify her (mostly beautiful and fierce). I saw her live this weekend at a conference for LGBTQ unity in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. She was really good! Her music was so engaging and she could be inspirational ("Fire"), confrontational ("Fuck Bush"), and completely insane ("Chink"). I met her, got two signed CDs for $20, and had an awesome time. Anyone else like her music? She's pretty good at piano, too. She's getting her degree from Berklee now. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 16:18:38 -0400 From: morayati@email.unc.edu Subject: Re: Magdalen Hsu-Li Wait, I missed this? I know a lot of people who went to the conference, but I wasn't there myself. I don't have any of her CDs, but I've heard her music before and it's quite nice. - -Sarah Quoting Aly Fields : > I was pleased to see that she was in the Ectoguide, and especially under all > of the ways I would have chosen to classify her (mostly beautiful and > fierce). I saw her live this weekend at a conference for LGBTQ unity in > Chapel Hill, North Carolina. She was really good! Her music was so > engaging and she could be inspirational ("Fire"), confrontational ("Fuck > Bush"), and completely insane ("Chink"). I met her, got two signed CDs for > $20, and had an awesome time. Anyone else like her music? She's pretty > good at piano, too. She's getting her degree from Berklee now. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:57:03 -0700 From: cy Subject: if being a rule-breaker means self-nomination is just "not done" (said with upper class UK accent), oh well, that's fiercely independent for you If being an "Ecto-Goddess" means you chose a new musical path, are totally label independent and self supportive (6 cds & still touring), sing with an excellent but unusual voice or style (non-commercial, not going to be seen on David Letterman with piano), move from dreamy to fierce ("from Kate Bush wail to angel like whisper"), and give due respect to your foremothers (Kate, Jane, Happy, done covers of and performed with), and the Goddess inside still struggles along, never giving up because of a few loyal fans, then I nominate myself for an Ecto-Goddess. peace, Cyoakha Grace Land of the Blind http://www.landoftheblind.com/ to order BLIND's CDs/Gigs/Bios http://www.sonicbids.com/landoftheblind Electronic Press Kit - Calendar http://www.cyoakhagrace.com/ for indie movie producers, pro bio http://www.myspace.com/landoftheblind music samples http://www.myspace.com/cyoakhagrace free new downloads ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 19:05:59 -0400 From: JoAnn Whetsell Subject: RE: Goddess lists I've been following the goddess debate from the sidelines with interest (I remember the last one too) and am now wading/weighing in. So, my thoughts for what they're worth: - -I like the idea of leaving the goddess list alone and calling it the original goddess list (or something like that), though I would like to add a date (circa 19__) in that case - -I also really believe the goddess list should evolve. (This is rather like the US Constitution debate - "It's the founders' intentions!" vs "It's a living document!") Perhaps we could have The Original Goddess List (circa 19__) and The Current Goddess List (circa 2008) - -I like the idea of having a list of essential ecto albums. For me, Fumbling Towards Ecstasy would be on that list even though Sarah isn't on my personal goddess list (and for the record, I don't really think she should be an ecto goddess either). So would Aerial even though Kate Bush also wouldn't make my personal goddess list. - -Another idea is to have the pantheon of each genre. Right now when you're at the page of genres, each genre lists 2 or 3 representative artists. Thanks everyone for a great discussion. It's made me think about why I love what I love. To me, a goddess has unique creative vision, impact and influence, and makes music of consistently high quality. These three qualities need not be present in equal amounts. As for my own personal pantheon, in no particular order: Veda Hille Jane Siberry Tori Amos Rickie Lee Jones Sheila Chandra Sufjan Stevens Laura Nyro There are other people who are really close (including PJ Harvey, Ani DiFranco, Patty Larkin, Bjork), and I can't really explain why I think they don't quite make it. JoAnn np: Cat Power, Jukebox _________________________________________________________________ Get in touch in an instant. Get Windows Live Messenger now. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_ getintouch_042008 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 21:08:40 -0400 From: "Aly Fields" Subject: Re: Goddess lists I'm not trying to be incendiary or anything, but whycome no Katers? On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 7:05 PM, JoAnn Whetsell wrote: > I've been following the goddess debate from the sidelines with interest (I > remember the last one too) and am now wading/weighing in. So, my thoughts > for > what they're worth: > > -I like the idea of leaving the goddess list alone and calling it the > original > goddess list (or something like that), though I would like to add a date > (circa 19__) in that case > -I also really believe the goddess list should evolve. (This is rather > like > the US Constitution debate - "It's the founders' intentions!" vs "It's a > living document!") > > Perhaps we could have The Original Goddess List (circa 19__) and The > Current > Goddess List (circa 2008) > > -I like the idea of having a list of essential ecto albums. For me, > Fumbling > Towards Ecstasy would be on that list even though Sarah isn't on my > personal > goddess list (and for the record, I don't really think she should be an > ecto > goddess either). So would Aerial even though Kate Bush also wouldn't make > my > personal goddess list. > > -Another idea is to have the pantheon of each genre. Right now when > you're at > the page of genres, each genre lists 2 or 3 representative artists. > > > Thanks everyone for a great discussion. It's made me think about why I > love > what I love. > > To me, a goddess has unique creative vision, impact and influence, and > makes > music of consistently high quality. These three qualities need not be > present > in equal amounts. > > As for my own personal pantheon, in no particular order: > Veda Hille > Jane Siberry > Tori Amos > Rickie Lee Jones > Sheila Chandra > Sufjan Stevens > Laura Nyro > > There are other people who are really close (including PJ Harvey, Ani > DiFranco, Patty Larkin, Bjork), and I can't really explain why I think > they > don't quite make it. > > > JoAnn > np: Cat Power, Jukebox > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get in touch in an instant. Get Windows Live Messenger now. > > http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_ > getintouch_042008 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 20:53:16 -0400 From: "Michael Quinn" Subject: RE: listening to older music Well (I'm sorry if it's a bit OT here) many but "Old Goths" can't stand Marilyn Manson and what his music represents and don't consider it goth at all and many of his prepubescent fans have never heard of bands like The Sisters Of Mercy or Bauhaus and think that they and their "hero" invented goth music and subculture. [Sorry the "old goth" in me just couldn't let that one slip by :)] More on topic...I love a lot of stuff from the 80s so it'd doubtful that most things recorded after 1975 sound "dated" too me in a bad way, although things like analogue synths sound dated in a good nostalgic way :) I also don't understand ppl who think that most things produced at big recording studios sound "better" I can't tell the difference between an album that cost millions to produce and one recorded independently on a shoestring budget most of the time, and often the cheaply recorded album will actually sounds better to me. Mike - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ecto@smoe.org [mailto:owner-ecto@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Karen Hester Sent: April-09-08 3:02 PM To: ecto@smoe.org Subject: listening to older music Thanks Aly, Sarah. I'm glad 'younger ectophiles' can enjoy Kate and Happy without thinking "it might be a great song, but the production is so dated, I can't listen to it..." I find Rearmament (and some of Kate's Fairlight) a bit hard because of the olde keyboard sound. Do young Goths who came into music with Marilyn Manson giggle at the Sisters of Mercy's drum machine and dismiss the Cure as light pop? My teenage favs Cocteaus, Muses, Jesus and Mary Chain, the Smiths, Kate etc all produced albums that pre-dated my musical obsession and I loved those older albums just like their newer ones. However, I find it hard to hear most earlier rock music (60s, early 70s) with fresh ears. Lots of reasons: - - sounds dated (esp electronic, but other instruments have changed) - - sounds like childhood radio staples, and my ears say "boooring" and don't listen closely - - aversion to one's parents' music (kill their idols, etc) - - prefer current genres (I'm a post-punk kid, not post-prog) - - infatuation with the new - - like to support active artists, and go to shows - - lack of need to go back cos there's so much new stuff I'm like this with books too. Some of my happiest reading experiences have been with Dickens, but he's always there so I don't feel compelled to read all his books now, and instead this month read New Yorkers (cover to cover), Oliver Sacks on music, Dave Eggers and Charles Stross (near future SF needs to be read near its publication date!). K. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 21:31:58 -0400 From: JoAnn Whetsell Subject: RE: Goddess lists Well, Aerial is actually the only Kate Bush album I own. All my other tastes point to my loving her, but I've not gotten into her earlier music. Every once in a while I give a listen to something, but it doesn't catch. I respect her as an artist and fully agree with her being an ecto goddess. There's just not a personal love. Maybe someday. JoAnn Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 21:08:40 -0400 From: the.walking@gmail.com To: s_nevada76@hotmail.com Subject: Re: Goddess lists CC: ecto@smoe.org I'm not trying to be incendiary or anything, but whycome no Katers? On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 7:05 PM, JoAnn Whetsell wrote: I've been following the goddess debate from the sidelines with interest (I remember the last one too) and am now wading/weighing in. So, my thoughts for what they're worth: - -I like the idea of leaving the goddess list alone and calling it the original goddess list (or something like that), though I would like to add a date (circa 19__) in that case - -I also really believe the goddess list should evolve. (This is rather like the US Constitution debate - "It's the founders' intentions!" vs "It's a living document!") Perhaps we could have The Original Goddess List (circa 19__) and The Current Goddess List (circa 2008) - -I like the idea of having a list of essential ecto albums. For me, Fumbling Towards Ecstasy would be on that list even though Sarah isn't on my personal goddess list (and for the record, I don't really think she should be an ecto goddess either). So would Aerial even though Kate Bush also wouldn't make my personal goddess list. - -Another idea is to have the pantheon of each genre. Right now when you're at the page of genres, each genre lists 2 or 3 representative artists. Thanks everyone for a great discussion. It's made me think about why I love what I love. To me, a goddess has unique creative vision, impact and influence, and makes music of consistently high quality. These three qualities need not be present in equal amounts. As for my own personal pantheon, in no particular order: Veda Hille Jane Siberry Tori Amos Rickie Lee Jones Sheila Chandra Sufjan Stevens Laura Nyro There are other people who are really close (including PJ Harvey, Ani DiFranco, Patty Larkin, Bjork), and I can't really explain why I think they don't quite make it. JoAnn np: Cat Power, Jukebox _________________________________________________________________ Get in touch in an instant. Get Windows Live Messenger now. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_ getintouch_042008 _________________________________________________________________ Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_ Refresh_messenger_video_042008 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 22:09:30 -0400 From: "Aly Fields" Subject: Re: Goddess lists Well... GET ON IT!!! *laugh* Sorry, she's my favourite artist. On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 9:31 PM, JoAnn Whetsell wrote: > Well, Aerial is actually the only Kate Bush album I own. All my other > tastes > point to my loving her, but I've not gotten into her earlier music. Every > once in a while I give a listen to something, but it doesn't catch. I > respect > her as an artist and fully agree with her being an ecto goddess. There's > just > not a personal love. Maybe someday. > > JoAnn > > Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 21:08:40 -0400 > From: the.walking@gmail.com > To: s_nevada76@hotmail.com > Subject: Re: Goddess lists > CC: ecto@smoe.org > > I'm not trying to be incendiary or anything, but whycome no Katers? > > On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 7:05 PM, JoAnn Whetsell > wrote: > > I've been following the goddess debate from the sidelines with interest (I > > remember the last one too) and am now wading/weighing in. So, my thoughts > for > > what they're worth: > > > > -I like the idea of leaving the goddess list alone and calling it the > original > > goddess list (or something like that), though I would like to add a date > > (circa 19__) in that case > > -I also really believe the goddess list should evolve. (This is rather > like > > the US Constitution debate - "It's the founders' intentions!" vs "It's a > > living document!") > > > > Perhaps we could have The Original Goddess List (circa 19__) and The > Current > > Goddess List (circa 2008) > > > > -I like the idea of having a list of essential ecto albums. For me, > Fumbling > > Towards Ecstasy would be on that list even though Sarah isn't on my > personal > > goddess list (and for the record, I don't really think she should be an > ecto > > goddess either). So would Aerial even though Kate Bush also wouldn't make > my > > personal goddess list. > > > > -Another idea is to have the pantheon of each genre. Right now when > you're > at > > the page of genres, each genre lists 2 or 3 representative artists. > > > > > > Thanks everyone for a great discussion. It's made me think about why I > love > > what I love. > > > > To me, a goddess has unique creative vision, impact and influence, and > makes > > music of consistently high quality. These three qualities need not be > present > > in equal amounts. > > > > As for my own personal pantheon, in no particular order: > > Veda Hille > > Jane Siberry > > Tori Amos > > Rickie Lee Jones > > Sheila Chandra > > Sufjan Stevens > > Laura Nyro > > > > There are other people who are really close (including PJ Harvey, Ani > > DiFranco, Patty Larkin, Bjork), and I can't really explain why I think > they > > don't quite make it. > > > > > > JoAnn > > np: Cat Power, Jukebox > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get in touch in an instant. Get Windows Live Messenger now. > > > http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_ > > getintouch_042008 > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. > > http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_ > Refresh_messenger_video_042008 ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V13 #452 ***************************