From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V13 #396 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Wednesday, February 13 2008 Volume 13 : Number 396 To unsubscribe: e-mail ecto-digest-request@smoe.org and put the word unsubscribe in the message body. Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Kristin Hersh and CASH Music [Gregory Bossert ] Re: An Orgy With Happy Rhodes ;o) [Timothy Jones-Yelvington ] Fw: An Orgy With Happy Rhodes ;o) ["Richard Messum" ] Re: An Orgy With Happy Rhodes ;o) [morayati@email.unc.edu] "..he or she loves "everything.." was re: an orgy [kerrywhite@webtv.net (] Re: An Orgy With Happy Rhodes ;o) ["Richard Messum" ] Re: "..he or she loves "everything..", sex appeal [morayati@email.unc.edu] Re: An Orgy With Happy Rhodes ;o) ["robert bristow-johnson" Subject: Re: Kristin Hersh and CASH Music On Feb 10, 2008, at 7:59 PM, morayati@email.unc.edu wrote: > Plus, the read/write section is about the coolest thing ever. I'm > not just saying this because they posted my remix. Well, OK, part > of it has to do with the fact that they posted my remix, but it's a > great idea. are you "Sarah Cryst"? or...? - -g - -- i have never been afraid to change - -- the circumstances of the world - -- happy rhodes - -- www.suddensound.com -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:09:42 -0800 From: Michael Pearce Subject: Re: An Orgy With Happy Rhodes ;o) At 1:55 AM -0500 2/11/08, "Richard Messum" wrote: >Actually, so far the only one i've listened to (three times) has been >"Warpaint." (I don't want to listen to them all in a row, lest they blur >together.) Why is this woman virtually unknown? It's brilliant. You've discovered what so many of us have up to now, and had exactly the same reaction. Success is part promotion by one of the mainstream record companies and part extensive touring. Happy has had neither. Tori succeeded by touring her head off, bolstered by her Net fans. She was probably the first Net superstar. Happy had one negative experience with a semi-mainstream record release, by a company that somehow thought it was a good idea to be headquartered in Kansas. The only artist I can think of who was a lifetime success with his music despite never touring or appearing on TV: Harry Nilsson. I suppose KaTe counts too, although she did it with brilliant videos and TV appearances. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 13:34:06 -0600 From: Timothy Jones-Yelvington Subject: Re: An Orgy With Happy Rhodes ;o) A few other additions to this conversation- I think the "mainstream" only has space for a handful of women artists who are unconventional and who don't accommodate "genre" expectations. So part of the issue is that the very same qualities that make the music itself unforgettable also make it threatening to the various music industries. There's also the unfortunate issue of sex appeal, which I believe remains a necessity for women artists in the mainstream. Artists like Tori Amos and Regina Spektor may not understand themselves as selling sex (and I'm certainly not criticizing them as doing so), but I do think there is a way in which labels and marketing people are able to commodify their image (it's the "look how hot Tori is in that video" or "how adorable is Regina Spektor?" thing) in a way that would never work for Happy. I think Happy's sexy, but it's not the mainstream's idea of sexy. ~tim On 2/12/08 1:09 PM, "Michael Pearce" wrote: > At 1:55 AM -0500 2/11/08, "Richard Messum" wrote: > >> Actually, so far the only one i've listened to (three times) has been >> "Warpaint." (I don't want to listen to them all in a row, lest they blur >> together.) Why is this woman virtually unknown? It's brilliant. > > You've discovered what so many of us have up to now, and had exactly > the same reaction. Success is part promotion by one of the mainstream > record companies and part extensive touring. Happy has had neither. > Tori succeeded by touring her head off, bolstered by her Net fans. > She was probably the first Net superstar. Happy had one negative > experience with a semi-mainstream record release, by a company that > somehow thought it was a good idea to be headquartered in Kansas. > > The only artist I can think of who was a lifetime success with his > music despite never touring or appearing on TV: Harry Nilsson. I > suppose KaTe counts too, although she did it with brilliant videos > and TV appearances. > > Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:22:30 +0100 From: Yngve Hauge Subject: Re: An Orgy With Happy Rhodes ;o) On Tuesday 12 February 2008 20:09:42 Michael Pearce wrote: > The only artist I can think of who was a lifetime success with his > music despite never touring or appearing on TV: Harry Nilsson. I > suppose KaTe counts too, although she did it with brilliant videos > and TV appearances. > KaTe did tour once but that made her a legend, and people still wait for another one. She was backed by a major record company though. I recon Ani Difranco is the only one I can think of maybe besides Jewel doing it from scratch. - -- Yngve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:17:08 -0500 From: "Richard Messum" Subject: Fw: An Orgy With Happy Rhodes ;o) - ----- Original Message ----- From: Yngve Hauge To: ecto@smoe.org Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 2:22 PM Subject: Re: An Orgy With Happy Rhodes ;o) KaTe did tour once but that made her a legend, and people still wait for another one. She was backed by a major record company though. I recon Ani Difranco is the only one I can think of maybe besides Jewel doing it from scratch. - -- Yngve I think that the Ani Di Franco comaprison is very apt, as she has done it all on her own -- but she has become well-known thanks to her relentless touring, something Happy seems disinclined (or possibly unable) to do. I think that Joan Osborne began that way, too ( i could be wrong about that but i seem to recall that her first recordings were released on her own label, Womanly Hips Music). Of course she was snapped up by and now resides in Major Label Hell. Which is rather a shame, as i'm a Joan Osborne fan.... Richard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:50:56 -0500 From: morayati@email.unc.edu Subject: Re: An Orgy With Happy Rhodes ;o) I think some of the blame also has to fall on the public, though. Most people, I find, are not anywhere near as proactive in discovering new artists and bands than they could (I really, really want to say "should" but I don't want to sound imposing). So they gravitate to whatever is marketed to them, and think that's a process of discovery, when it's really just receiving. And then there's the "cool" aspect, which I'd argue is even more influential than sex appeal. The Internet helps - some sites more than others. Last.fm, I find, isn't so great because it works based on people's already entrenched tastes. For the most part, it hasn't recommended me anybody that I didn't already know about. Individual recommendations are better but also more prone to spam. Pandora is better, but you have to be willing to work with it, and your "seed material" counts a whole lot too. (I almost wrote 'correctly'. I'm biased, I know.) Happy gets played quite a bit, for instance, on Pandora's Kate Bush station, but that requires people having a Kate Bush station in the first place. (See above paragraph.) Too many people are complacent. On a side note, this is why one of my greatest pet peeves is when someone says that he or she likes "everything" when it comes to music. That's a great big red flag that they haven't really heard all that much. It makes me want to track down obscure doom metal or glitch music or the like to test their statement. - -Sarah Quoting Michael Pearce : > You've discovered what so many of us have up to now, and had exactly > the same reaction. Success is part promotion by one of the mainstream > record companies and part extensive touring. Happy has had neither. > Tori succeeded by touring her head off, bolstered by her Net fans. > She was probably the first Net superstar. Happy had one negative > experience with a semi-mainstream record release, by a company that > somehow thought it was a good idea to be headquartered in Kansas. > > The only artist I can think of who was a lifetime success with his > music despite never touring or appearing on TV: Harry Nilsson. I > suppose KaTe counts too, although she did it with brilliant videos > and TV appearances. > > Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 17:07:40 -0600 From: kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white) Subject: "..he or she loves "everything.." was re: an orgy Hi, On that note I met a woman who said that she liked "Jazz". I inquired and she said, "Sade", more inquiry found that Sade was the only "jazz" she had.!!??! I like a few Sade cuts but ... Hope you all have a nice day, Kerry KrW I'm Peter Pan! I'm perpetually young!! OW!! What's wrong with my back? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:13:03 -0500 From: "Richard Messum" Subject: Re: An Orgy With Happy Rhodes ;o) I don't know who Regina Spektor is, but otherwise: I think that Happy Rhodes, Kate Bush, and Tori Amos are extraordinarily sexy, but don't sell sex. I love Amy Winehouse's music, but i find her (physically) extremely unattractive. I think that Avril Lavigne, for example, who blatantly sells sex, is excruciatingly UNsexy. Maybe it's a function of age. As i am now 39 years old (for the 18th time LOL) i am no longer interested in talentless, scrawny teenagers, or their music..... Richard - ----- Original Message ----- From: Timothy Jones-Yelvington To: Michael Pearce ; Untitled Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 2:34 PM Subject: Re: An Orgy With Happy Rhodes ;o) A few other additions to this conversation- I think the "mainstream" only has space for a handful of women artists who are unconventional and who don't accommodate "genre" expectations. So part of the issue is that the very same qualities that make the music itself unforgettable also make it threatening to the various music industries. There's also the unfortunate issue of sex appeal, which I believe remains a necessity for women artists in the mainstream. Artists like Tori Amos and Regina Spektor may not understand themselves as selling sex (and I'm certainly not criticizing them as doing so), but I do think there is a way in which labels and marketing people are able to commodify their image (it's the "look how hot Tori is in that video" or "how adorable is Regina Spektor?" thing) in a way that would never work for Happy. I think Happy's sexy, but it's not the mainstream's idea of sexy. ~tim On 2/12/08 1:09 PM, "Michael Pearce" wrote: > At 1:55 AM -0500 2/11/08, "Richard Messum" wrote: > >> Actually, so far the only one i've listened to (three times) has been >> "Warpaint." (I don't want to listen to them all in a row, lest they blur >> together.) Why is this woman virtually unknown? It's brilliant. > > You've discovered what so many of us have up to now, and had exactly > the same reaction. Success is part promotion by one of the mainstream > record companies and part extensive touring. Happy has had neither. > Tori succeeded by touring her head off, bolstered by her Net fans. > She was probably the first Net superstar. Happy had one negative > experience with a semi-mainstream record release, by a company that > somehow thought it was a good idea to be headquartered in Kansas. > > The only artist I can think of who was a lifetime success with his > music despite never touring or appearing on TV: Harry Nilsson. I > suppose KaTe counts too, although she did it with brilliant videos > and TV appearances. > > Michael - -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1273 - Release Date: 2/12/2008 9:31 AM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:06:45 -0500 From: morayati@email.unc.edu Subject: Re: "..he or she loves "everything..", sex appeal *cringes* Better Sade, I guess, than Kenny G... although I too am guilty of this. The other day I had mentioned, off-the-cuff, that I liked Irish music. The response was "Oh, like U2, the Cranberries, and the Corrs?" and I had to backpedal a bit... "No...well...I guess not *all* Irish music...you know?" I wonder what the ideal sample size is for saying you like a certain genre. But then, saying you like a genre is a bit different than 'everything'. As for sex appeal, it's quite amazing how American culture, at least, manages to be both overtly sexual and completely un-sexy at the same time, because what passes for "sex appeal" is a one-dimensional caricature (and also problematic for women). This, of course, is much easier to see in top 40 music - not that it isn't present elsewhere, but that just makes it *really* *obvious*. - -Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 23:16:46 -0500 From: "robert bristow-johnson" Subject: Re: An Orgy With Happy Rhodes ;o) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Messum" > To: ecto@smoe.org > Subject: Re: An Orgy With Happy Rhodes ;o) > Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:13:03 -0500 > ... > > I think that Happy Rhodes, Kate Bush, and Tori Amos are extraordinarily sexy, > but don't sell sex. i would agree about 1 & 2, less so about 3. i remember, just a little bit before i was hearing what became The Keep version of Save our Souls on the Echoes Living Room and wondering "who is this?", about the same time, where i lived in NJ, there was this UHF channel (can't remember... 23?) that at one time was "The Box" where you could call in requests of videos (with a credit card, i think) and they played this Tori video of a song i can't remember the title of (video was clearly about sex and had lots of goose feathers and some sofa, with Tori lying on it, with a hydraulic displacement ...anybody who's a Tori freak remember that video around '94 or 95?), anyway, i think it's not sleazy like Britney or Christina A, but she was selling sex. IMO, anyway. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Pearce" > To: ecto@smoe.org > Subject: Re: An Orgy With Happy Rhodes ;o) > Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:09:42 -0800 > > > At 1:55 AM -0500 2/11/08, "Richard Messum" wrote: > > ... Happy had one negative experience with a semi-mainstream record > release, by a company that somehow thought it was a good idea to be > headquartered in Kansas. Kansas or Nebraska (i thought Omaha). ya know, it was really Gold Circle that was Samson, and they weren't in either. they were LA. as best as i can tell, Happy's experience with them is mixed (compare to what would be the state of things if she hadn't had the breif Samson gig). she produced what i still think is her magnum opus. and Chariot/Ra is nothing less than an historic masterpiece. a geez, and Cliffs and Tragic. that might not have happened without the Samson fling. or at least, it likely would have come out differently. i think that Happy and those of us who love her music value the existence of MWABT a lot. it's not entirely negative. IMO anyway. - -- r b-j rbj@audioimagination.com "Imagination is more important than knowledge." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 23:23:55 -0500 From: "robert bristow-johnson" Subject: Re: "..he or she loves "everything.." was re: an orgy > ----- Original Message ----- > From: kerrywhite@webtv.net To: ecto@smoe.org Subject: "..he or she loves > "everything.." was re: an orgy > Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 17:07:40 -0600 > > > Hi, On that note I met a woman who said that she liked "Jazz". I > inquired and she said, "Sade", more inquiry found that Sade was the only > "jazz" she had.!!??! I like a few Sade cuts but ... i really liked Cool Operator, but even otherwise, i think Sade hangs in the same strata as Happy, KaTe, Lisa Gerrard, and Azam Ali and Noe and others (some celtic artists might come to mind). they're all hang out together at Olympus. - -- r b-j rbj@audioimagination.com "Imagination is more important than knowledge." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 23:27:33 -0500 From: Chris Stack Subject: Theremins - EtherMusic Festival 2008! As a celebration of the vibrant Theremin community, Moog Music will again sponsor an International Theremin Festival b EtherMusic Festival 2008. This event will feature workshops and concerts, factory tours and much, much more. An exciting component of the weekend will be an original composition contest, with the winner performing their composition for theremin at one of the nightly concerts. The current line-up includes special appearances by Lydia Kavina, Dorit Chrysler, Carolina Eyck, Xenovibes and Randy George! April 24-27, 2008 are the dates for this extraordinary festival. Register by March 1, 2008 for an early discount! To find out more, check out www.ethermusic.com Be sure to mark your calendar! More details will be coming soon... All of this takes place in beautiful Asheville, NC, home of Moog Music and a top US tour destination with a lively art and music scene. When you come, be sure to schedule in extra time to visit the world-famous Biltmore House and the beautiful Blue Ridge Mountains. Chris @ Moog ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V13 #396 ***************************