From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V13 #221 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Wednesday, August 22 2007 Volume 13 : Number 221 To unsubscribe: e-mail ecto-digest-request@smoe.org and put the word unsubscribe in the message body. Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Limewire going legit - deals with Nettwerk & Iris [Peter Clark ] Re: Limewire going legit - deals with Nettwerk & Iris ["robert bristow-jo] Upcoming releases ["Jeffrey Hanson" ] equipoise! (well, sorta) [gaseous clay ] FW: Upcoming releases [Timothy Jones-Yelvington ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 18:26:53 -0700 From: Peter Clark Subject: Re: Limewire going legit - deals with Nettwerk & Iris Mind who you call a geek, and smile when you say it. Happy does geeky stuff, and so do I. Be grateful that there are still enough people around who care about good sound.. Peter C -=High Performance Analogue=- www.redpoint-audio-design.com afries wrote: > DanStark wrote: > > >> MP3s are fine as a convenience format for transporting non-critical >> material over the web. But what happened to all the critical listeners >> who used to buy up the multitude of audiophile magazines and even >> complained that even CDs were not good enough quality compared to >> vinyl? >> > Actually they were always just a tiny minority; most people were (and > are) content enough to play their music over any haphazard contraption. > Boom boxes, portable cassette decks - remember those? Their sound > quality was closer to a phone handset than real hi-fi gear. Sound > quality is not all that important much of the time, because I think for > most people music is more about its various social aspects than > celebration of sound as such. > > 'Audiophilia' is an expensive and extremely geeky hobby that only few > guys (I'd say at least 99% of those drooling over super-sensitive > turntables and valve powered amps are men) ever got into. I imagine they > are still around, if you look for them hard enough. > > But I agree with you - I'm not really interested in buying music files > online either. Not so much because of sound quality because to be honest > I can't tell a difference between a well encoded file and the original, > at least on my gear. But I like getting a physical object, and some > artwork, maybe even a booklet of lyrics if I'm lucky. It makes me feel > that I actually got something for my money. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 20:56:42 +1000 From: afries Subject: Re: Limewire going legit - deals with Nettwerk & Iris Peter Clark wrote: > Mind who you call a geek, and smile when you say it. Happy does geeky > stuff, and so do I. Be grateful that there are still enough people > around who care about good sound.. I'm grateful, but my main point was that their numbers are not necessarily decreasing, it's just that the general public has a new way of expressing their indifference: they used to show it by playing their music in all sorts of low-fi ways, now they can also do it by buying their music in low-fi formats. Yes, it means a new danger that higher quality media might get replaced by severely compressed files. But it's the technology that changed, not the attitude of the public. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 06:28:53 -0700 From: birdie Subject: Re: Limewire going legit - deals with Nettwerk & Iris pass me the tanning butter and transitor radio..... I mean, mp3 player and sunscreen. :-) Birdie afries wrote: >Peter Clark wrote: > > >>Mind who you call a geek, and smile when you say it. Happy does geeky >>stuff, and so do I. Be grateful that there are still enough people >>around who care about good sound.. >> >> > >I'm grateful, but my main point was that their numbers are not >necessarily decreasing, it's just that the general public has a new way >of expressing their indifference: they used to show it by playing their >music in all sorts of low-fi ways, now they can also do it by buying >their music in low-fi formats. > >Yes, it means a new danger that higher quality media might get replaced >by severely compressed files. But it's the technology that changed, not >the attitude of the public. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:06:43 -0500 From: CollectedSounds Subject: Re: Limewire going legit - deals with Nettwerk & Iris On 8/20/07, Steve VanDevender wrote: > It's interesting that you would claim that, since burning a copy of a CD > means duplicating the data on the CD, and there's absolutely no reason > the duplicate should sound different when played on the same equipment > because it should have all the same bits as the original. > > Thinking you're supposed to hear a difference tends to make you think > you do hear a difference, even if the difference doesn't exist. Hee hee, you're assuming that I know how to make a CD :) The case I'm thinking of, is that I made a "car copy" of a certain favorite CD and I did it by creating a CD made with MP3s that I had originally ripped onto my computer when I got the (store bought) original. So it went from "real" CD, to MP3 on my computer, then to a home made CD. So I'm sure you can imagine what mess that is! I only thought my home made one was bad when I brought the "real" CD into the car and played it right after the homemade one. The homemade one was more quiet and muddy. I'm clearly not an audiophile! Plus who can tell when I'm just singing along (loudly) anyway :) - -- Amy Collected Sounds www.collectedsounds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:49:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Greg Dunn Subject: Re: Limewire going legit - deals with Nettwerk & Iris Creating a Red Book CD from MP3s shouldn't cause any further degradation to the signal (again, depending on the application used to burn the CD), though you won't get any of the info back. :-) I have done this in the instance where I only had the MP3 data of the music to begin with (long story). Don't try ripping that CD again, though; the quirks of the original MP3 encoding, audible or not, will remain in the de-compressed audio, and a second pass through an MP3 encoder will usually cause some very weird artifacts in the signal! - -----Original Message----- >From: CollectedSounds >Sent: Aug 21, 2007 11:06 AM >To: Ecto >Subject: Re: Limewire going legit - deals with Nettwerk & Iris > >On 8/20/07, Steve VanDevender wrote: > >> It's interesting that you would claim that, since burning a copy of a CD >> means duplicating the data on the CD, and there's absolutely no reason >> the duplicate should sound different when played on the same equipment >> because it should have all the same bits as the original. >> >> Thinking you're supposed to hear a difference tends to make you think >> you do hear a difference, even if the difference doesn't exist. > > >Hee hee, you're assuming that I know how to make a CD :) >The case I'm thinking of, is that I made a "car copy" of a certain >favorite CD and I did it by creating a CD made with MP3s that I had >originally ripped onto my computer when I got the (store bought) >original. So it went from "real" CD, to MP3 on my computer, then to a >home made CD. So I'm sure you can imagine what mess that is! I only >thought my home made one was bad when I brought the "real" CD into the >car and played it right after the homemade one. The homemade one was >more quiet and muddy. I'm clearly not an audiophile! Plus who can tell >when I'm just singing along (loudly) anyway :) > >-- >Amy >Collected Sounds >www.collectedsounds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 12:15:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Bernie Mojzes Subject: Re: Limewire going legit - deals with Nettwerk & Iris This whole thread (and it's offspring) reminds me of the good old days of vinyl. I learned in high school that it makes a difference how you treat your albums, so I made a point of getting a decent turntable (you know, within my means), handling the albums properly, replacing the needles regularly, etc. And I'd always take care to be very gentle with my Yes/Genesis/King Crimson/Gentle Giant albums. The music demanded and deserved the attention, and it was important to play it with the best fidelity in both media and equipment as I could reasonably afford. When I'd make tapes to play in my car, I'd get the highest quality metal cassettes available. On the other hand, there were albums I didn't actually LIKE listening to in high fidelity. Gang of Four, Dead Kennedys, Stiff Little Fingers - I'd get the album and then record that on the crappiest (preferably many times reused) cheapest tape possible, and then listen to it LOUD. brni > On 8/20/07, Steve VanDevender wrote: > >> It's interesting that you would claim that, since burning a copy of a CD >> means duplicating the data on the CD, and there's absolutely no reason >> the duplicate should sound different when played on the same equipment >> because it should have all the same bits as the original. >> >> Thinking you're supposed to hear a difference tends to make you think >> you do hear a difference, even if the difference doesn't exist. > > > Hee hee, you're assuming that I know how to make a CD :) > The case I'm thinking of, is that I made a "car copy" of a certain > favorite CD and I did it by creating a CD made with MP3s that I had > originally ripped onto my computer when I got the (store bought) > original. So it went from "real" CD, to MP3 on my computer, then to a > home made CD. So I'm sure you can imagine what mess that is! I only > thought my home made one was bad when I brought the "real" CD into the > car and played it right after the homemade one. The homemade one was > more quiet and muddy. I'm clearly not an audiophile! Plus who can tell > when I'm just singing along (loudly) anyway :) > > - -- brni i don't want the world, i just want your half. http://brni.livejournal.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:38:38 -0400 From: DanStark <2005.carnivore99@verizon.net> Subject: RE: MP3s and CDs and our ears (was Limewire going legit...) Michael Quinn wrote: >I'm glad they seem to be lessening the DRM crap in online music but I still >will not buy anything in any of these stores for close to CD prices until >they allow you the option of downloading a lossless format. Ultimately I think (and hope) that's what will happen as bandwidth and hard drive capacities increase to the point where transfer times and file storage capacities become non-issues to the critical mass. Of course the labels will probably have to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into providing full-resolution files at that point. But that's still a few years off so who knows how it will evolve? I look forward to uncompressed music files becoming the norm, though -- I do hope that's where this is eventually headed. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 09:54:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Mendelson Subject: Who sings this? I think this song is called "Who Would've Known" Lyrics are: There's a space inside my head for someone like you .... I'm lost I'm found I can't hear a sound Anyone know who sings this? Thanks. - -mjm Michael Mendelson Email mjmjminla@yahoo.com _____________________________________________________________________________ _______ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:47:49 -0400 From: "robert bristow-johnson" Subject: Re: Limewire going legit - deals with Nettwerk & Iris > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bernie Mojzes" > To: CollectedSounds > Subject: Re: Limewire going legit - deals with Nettwerk & Iris > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 12:15:45 -0400 (EDT) > > > This whole thread (and it's offspring) reminds me of the good old days of > vinyl. I learned in high school that it makes a difference how you treat > your albums, so I made a point of getting a decent turntable (you know, > within my means), handling the albums properly, replacing the needles > regularly, etc. And I'd always take care to be very gentle with my > Yes/Genesis/King Crimson/Gentle Giant albums. ahh. someone else with Gentle Giant. Gentle Giant is to testosterone what Ecto is to estrogen. particularly that song called "Working All Day" (or was it just "Working"). pure Neanderthal. - -- r b-j rbj@audioimagination.com "Imagination is more important than knowledge." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 17:57:11 -0600 From: "Jeffrey Hanson" Subject: Upcoming releases Some interesting upcoming releases--including Annie Lennox's Songs of Mass Destruction-- Amazon has her new video up and viewable--looks and sounds great. Also upcoming are Siouxsie's debut solo album, solo album by Ann Wilson of Heart, and the Alison Krauss/Robert Plant duo album. Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 23:26:47 -0400 From: gaseous clay Subject: equipoise! (well, sorta) so, i was listening to a recent live recording of richard shindell and he played a new song titled "balloon man" (no, not a robyn hitchcock cover). one of the lines in the song includes the word "equipoise". just thought you'd like to know. you may all resume normal operations. ;) woj ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 23:53:12 -0500 From: Timothy Jones-Yelvington Subject: FW: Upcoming releases Woops, forgot to add list. - ------ Forwarded Message From: Timothy Jones-Yelvington Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 23:52:27 -0500 To: Jeffrey Hanson Conversation: Upcoming releases Subject: Re: Upcoming releases Not to be forgotten: Debbie Harry solo album New Melissa Etheridge New kt tunstall And by far the most important- New Joni Mitchell On 8/21/07 6:57 PM, "Jeffrey Hanson" wrote: > Some interesting upcoming releases--including Annie Lennox's Songs of Mass > Destruction-- > Amazon has her new video up and viewable--looks and sounds great. > > Also upcoming are Siouxsie's debut solo album, solo album by Ann Wilson of > Heart, > and the Alison Krauss/Robert Plant duo album. > > Jeff - ------ End of Forwarded Message ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V13 #221 ***************************