From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V13 #202 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Saturday, August 4 2007 Volume 13 : Number 202 To unsubscribe: e-mail ecto-digest-request@smoe.org and put the word unsubscribe in the message body. Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Ectofest reservations. ["robert bristow-johnson" ] Re: Happy sampled in a rap song [Greg Dunn ] RE: Happy sampled in a rap song ["Michael Quinn" ] Re: Happy sampled in a rap song [neal copperman ] Roseland (New Azam Ali project) [Craig Gidney ] Re: Happy sampled in a rap song [Doug ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 12:41:59 -0400 From: "robert bristow-johnson" Subject: Re: Ectofest reservations. just an update that we have reserved now 1/4 capacity of this place (assuming everyone shows). this is just for your information. i'll let you know when/if we get to 1/2 and 3/4, for any last minute stragglers to really panic. i gotta feeling about how this gig is gonna turn out. BTW, i'm in touch with the principals (like last night Noe performed and that gig was nice, but also instructional to me regarding logistics for Sept. 8). things are chugging along nicely. but if (God forbid) some bridge on I-90 crossing the Hudson collapses when You-Know-Who is crossing or some other horrible event beyond my control that scuttles this gig, i stand to lose some money setting things up, but you folks get to eat the cost of the plane flights and any other travel expense. since i'm not taking money, in advance, this obviates refunds of admission. (just to be clear. this oughta be an "academic" issue.) also, i have a lead for overnight lodging for 1 party (preferably a cohabitating couple) at a sorta quaint virtual B&B that is run by Quakers, on Beacon Hill, literally pissing distance from the Mass. State House and Boston Commons (and downtown and Chinatown). i have it for 2 nights, Sept 7th and 8th, for anyone who might want to come a day early and enjoy a little time in Boston. $95/night for two persons (decent hotels are $250+, there are hostels but i dunno anything about them). private room, but not exclusive bath, and no TV (hang out on the Commons instead, that's more interesting). this cannot be the Ecto community crash pad (but i'm not discouraging the creation of such elsewhere); they won't like it if a dozen partially-inebriated ectophiles converge on this site and crash. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "robert bristow-johnson" > To: ecto@smoe.org > Subject: Ectofest reservations. > Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 23:24:08 -0400 > > > okay, because i'm too lazy to get a checking account under the name of > "Ectofest 2007" or similar, i'll just take names from anyone who's virtually > certain that they are coming to this. you can hit the link at the website or > just email me (it's equivalent, except the web site might get hit more, i > dunno). tell me the name of every single person in your party and a cell > phone number for at least one of these persons. if there are no-shows when > the gig begins (we're aiming for 7:30), i think it's only fair to offer that > space to someone who is waiting at the door. you don't wanna be late. > > i dunno what's gonna happen, but the capacity of this place is 80 and there > are fewer chairs. > > -- > > r b-j rbj@audioimagination.com > > "Imagination is more important than knowledge." > - -- r b-j rbj@audioimagination.com "Imagination is more important than knowledge." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 09:51:46 -0700 From: Michael Pearce Subject: Re: Happy sampled in a rap song At 1:55 AM -0400 8/3/07, andrew fries wrote: >Marc McLaren wrote: >> When I first read this email I thought "oh god!" but it was actually pretty >> good! > >I'm sorry but I'm still at the "oh god!" part. I thought it was pretty >horrible, actually. I remain happily close-minded on the subject of >hip-hop, rap or whatever else kids are into those days... :) I agree. One of the constants in the Universe is Rap Sucks. So does Hop-Hip (an ironic contemptuous reversal of the order just to annoy the hop-hippers) but unlike cRap, it is actually possible to produce something listenable in that genre. Blondie's ditty from AutoAmerican "Rapture" is funny and strange, and Sarah Brightman's "I Loved You" from Fly is quite nice. Obeying Sturgeon's Law, even straight rap produces a few good works, but overall it is appalling dreck. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 15:02:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Greg Dunn Subject: Re: Happy sampled in a rap song I"m very open to new music in general (ask my daughter or her friends, all of whom play in bands, about my musical tastes) but indeed Sturgeon's Law is fully applicable to music - especially popular music. On a dare from a friend who claimed "no good music has been written since the 80s" I wrote up a list of >50 artists I loved who first appeared after 1990. It shut him up. ;) But some genres seem to produce an unconscionably high percentage of suckage. I thought I loved R&B music (grew up listening to the Temps, the Tops, Isley Bros., War, etc.), but it seems to have been taken over by "hip-hop lite" with shrieky and not very melodic vocals in the last few years. Rap is not all that new (variants have existed for at least 40 years that I know of), though it seems to have devolved into a monotonous and not very catchy beat threaded with atrocious rhymes and 3rd-grade slang instead of the sometimes funny and insightful output from the early days. I always enjoy pointing rap fans at the Blondie tune, and showing them that it predates 99% of the genre. The horror on their faces is fun to experience. For me, it all comes down to "does the artist show some clever innovation, interpretation or native talent?". For example, early electronic music often showed all 3, but as soon as the synthesizer became available to everyone, it produced its share of garbage as well. The sole types which (for the moment) seems relatively unscathed by the passage of time and recording industries appear to be blues and folk. Maybe because they're hard to fake? - -----Original Message----- >From: Michael Pearce >Sent: Aug 3, 2007 12:51 PM >To: ecto@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Happy sampled in a rap song > >At 1:55 AM -0400 8/3/07, andrew fries wrote: > >>Marc McLaren wrote: >>> When I first read this email I thought "oh god!" but it was actually pretty >>> good! >> >>I'm sorry but I'm still at the "oh god!" part. I thought it was pretty >>horrible, actually. I remain happily close-minded on the subject of >>hip-hop, rap or whatever else kids are into those days... :) > >I agree. One of the constants in the Universe is Rap Sucks. So does >Hop-Hip (an ironic contemptuous reversal of the order just to annoy >the hop-hippers) but unlike cRap, it is actually possible to produce >something listenable in that genre. Blondie's ditty from AutoAmerican >"Rapture" is funny and strange, and Sarah Brightman's "I Loved You" >from Fly is quite nice. > >Obeying Sturgeon's Law, even straight rap produces a few good works, >but overall it is appalling dreck. > >Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 15:42:47 -0400 From: "Michael Quinn" Subject: RE: Happy sampled in a rap song - --- >But some genres seem to produce an unconscionably high percentage of suckage. I I would say that all broadly defined genres hold quite a bit of stuff that sucks (to the ear of the listener of course). Sure you can take a very narrowly defined genre and say for example. "Almost all trip-hop is good in my opinion"; But trip-hop, while somewhat unique is really more of a subgenre. The same would apply to "ecto music" or whatever you want to call it. If you define genres as like rock, pop, classical, jazz, hip-hop, folk/country and a few others then any thinking person is bound to find plenty of stuff they dislike within any of those genres. >Though [hip-hop] seems to have devolved into a monotonous and not very catchy beat ?>threaded with atrocious rhymes and 3rd-grade slang instead of the sometimes funny and ?>insightful output from the early days. I don't listen to rap and hip-hop that much but I have heard some of the underground stuff with very clever and insightful lyrics and good beats which is enjoyable to listen to. You're talking about "gangsta" rap which I can't stand and almost all fans of this genre that I've spoken to over the age of 16 also tend to dislike. >For me, it all comes down to "does the artist show some clever innovation, >interpretation or native talent?". For example, early electronic music often showed >all 3, but as soon as the synthesizer became available to everyone, it produced its Well "talent" is once again one of those subjective "ear of the listener" things. Sometimes if you don't understand what the artist is trying to achieve or are just not connecting with it all you will see no talent where others might see talent. Plenty of Kraftwerk for example is quite silly music, although I respect them for being electronic pioneers, I would rather listen to later electronic music even if it is less innovative. >share of garbage as well. The sole types which (for the moment) seems relatively >unscathed by the passage of time and recording industries appear to be blues and folk. >Maybe because they're hard to fake? I don't think that all music that's "untouched by commercialism" is by definition good music (if that's what you're implying here). There is plenty of strummy stripped down folk or noisy experimental music that I personally can't stand and some "commercial" music I enjoy and find value in. Although it's true that I find MOST of my favorite artists are not very commercial probably because they have more freedom to express themselves and do what they want without music industry pressure. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 15:49:12 -0600 From: neal copperman Subject: Re: Happy sampled in a rap song At 3:02 PM -0400 8/3/07, Greg Dunn wrote: >The sole types which (for the moment) seems relatively unscathed by >the passage of time and recording industries appear to be blues and >folk. Maybe because they're hard to fake? Wow, that's funny! Given my own personal tastes and the environments I hang out in, I hear very little horrible rap music (and while I'm not a fan, there is rap and hip-hop that I do like). However, I hear mountains of mediocre blues and folk music. I must be exposed to at least 100 folk/acoustic performers a year that I have absolutely no interest in. neal np: Maquizcoatl - Banda Elastica (from Mexico) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 17:59:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Craig Gidney Subject: Roseland (New Azam Ali project) Azam Ali's rock-oriented project with Tyler Bates (Roseland) has just release their debut album. Atmospheric, guitar-based darkwave rock over which Ali's beautiful voice soars, this reminds me of the prettier side of Siouxsie's oeuvre. The Indian/Iranian influences are mostly gone. The lyrics are gothy and the production updates the dark swirly 80s sound.... http://www.myspace.com/roselandmusic - --Craig Blog: http://ethereal-lad.livejournal.com Music Blog: http://www.last.fm/user/ethereal_lad/ _____________________________________________________________________________ _______ Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 21:12:00 -0500 From: Doug Subject: Re: Happy sampled in a rap song Frankly, I like it. I'm not against rap if it gels with me, and this does. Using Happy is a definite plus...I probably wouldn't bother listening otherwise, in fact. But as it stands, it's a good song. What makes it even better is the message, how they want to do the right thing by their family...none of this woman-bashing, gangsta-rapping, etc...the guy wants to provide for his family, he wants to succeed, without breaking the law, apparently. And language re: his low status in life fits with the Wretches them they sampled from Happy. More pow' to 'em, I say. - --Doug ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V13 #202 ***************************