From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V13 #146 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Wednesday, June 6 2007 Volume 13 : Number 146 To unsubscribe: e-mail ecto-digest-request@smoe.org and put the word unsubscribe in the message body. Today's Subjects: ----------------- The Bell Sisters [kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white)] **RACHAEL SAGE & W.H.Y. CHICAGO BENEFIT THIS WED, 6/6!** [SpiritWe@aol.co] {geek} why your Mac crashed [Michael Pearce ] Re: {geek} why your Mac crashed [Greg Dunn ] RE: {geek} why your Mac crashed ["Bill Mazur" ] RE: {geek} why your Mac crashed [Greg Dunn ] RE: {geek} why your Mac crashed [Bernie Mojzes ] RE: {geek} why your Mac crashed [Michael Pearce ] Re: {geek} why your Mac crashed ["Paul Blair" ] ATTN NYC: noe @ rockwood thursday [miss lesser hamden ] Re: ATTN NYC: noe @ rockwood thursday ["Paul Blair" ] Re: ATTN NYC: noe @ rockwood thursday ["robert bristow-johnson" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 01:14:38 -0500 From: kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white) Subject: The Bell Sisters Hi, So, I Googled: "free legal music downloads" and got a host of pages. One place had hundreds of the 'dronnnnne-click-click' experimental electronica. Another page, Better Propaganda, seems to be a bit dated but full of neat stuff, some I will write about eventually. Today I write of The Bell Sisters, who were popular from 1951 to 1958 and were seen on TV on Mickey Mouse Club, Jack Benny and Bing Crosby shows. One sister (was) 17 and the other (was) 14 [I think, I didn't read it all.] At least 2 songs were recorded with Spike Jones! Four of their songs were in the top 20 of (I wanna say Billboard) the charts. All I can say with my limited musical vocabulary is: if you like The Roches you will love The Bell Sisters. Google them for the main page. They have lots of free downloads and a CD available. Bye, me KrW I'm Peter Pan! I'm perpetually young!! OW!! What's wrong with my back? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 05:42:18 EDT From: SpiritWe@aol.com Subject: **RACHAEL SAGE & W.H.Y. CHICAGO BENEFIT THIS WED, 6/6!** Hello Chicago-area friends (or friends who have friends in the Chicago-area!), Just a last-minute reminder: Rachael Sage & The Sequins will be performing a full set at the official Midwest CD Release Benefit for NEW ARRIVALS: VOLUME 2. New Arrivals: Volume 2 (NAV2) is the second in a series of emerging artist compilations from MPress Records. All of the proceeds from NAV2 benefit Artists Against Hunger & Poverty, a program of World Hunger Year, founded by Harry Chapin; proceeds from this event will also benefit "Inspiration Cafe", a local food bank. Details below...Hope to see you there! xoxoxo & light, Team MPress === Wednesday, June 6 Hard Rock Cafe - 9:00pm (Doors: 8:30) **NEW ARRIVALS CD RELEASE SHOW** w/ Todd Carey, Mieka Pauley, Trina Hamlin & Ralston Bowles! www.hardrockchicago.tix.com Tix = $12 or 10* 63 West Ontario; (312) 943-2252 Chicago, IL *Bring non-perishable food items for donation to Inspiration Cafi & receive $2 off admission! MPress Records - The Muscle Behind the Glitter! * * * "NEW ARRIVALS: VOLUME TWO" IN STORES & AT RADIO NOW! A Benefit CD for Artists Against Hunger & Poverty from MPress Records... Spring/Summer New Arrivals Shows: NYC, Boston, LA, SF, Chicago & Atlanta! For Press/Radio inquiries and Interview Requests visit: www.thinkpress.net www.newarrivalscd.com * www.mpressrecords.com * 1.212.481.7243 * * * RECENT INK ON "NEW ARRIVALS: VOLUME 2": "... any triple A radio programmer would do his listeners a great service by just playing this disc in its entirety, over and over again." Up Against The Wall "Well worth your listening time. Classic folk-type music in the modern era. These artists will definitely become ones to watch for in the future." Feminist Review "... a hot new fundraising compilation, New Arrivals Volume 2 on Rachael Sages MPress Records label...is an all-time personal favorite, from among various artists collections." Vermont Guardian ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 09:47:17 -0700 From: Michael Pearce Subject: {geek} why your Mac crashed At 1:55 AM -0400 6/5/07, "Bill Mazur" wrote: >I have a number of PCs and one Mac in my collection of computers. They are >all marvelous when they are working and not giving you problems and are all >pieces of garbage when they are crashing and otherwise making your life >miserable (I know, long run on sentence). When the Mac crashes for no reason >it doesn't give me any cryptic error messages like the PC does. I don't know >if the cryptic error messages can help a technician fix my PC or not. The >Mac doesn't disclose anything (sort of the complaint about Apple not being >forthcoming with information) at all when the system crashes or locks up. So >in either case both systems crash and lock up for whatever reason and I have >no clue why. Since Macs are Unix machines now, you can access that information in the crashlog inside the Library folder. If anything, there is MORE information than the tech needs to know. >I use my Mac for the traditional "this is what Mac does best" reasons such >as running Protools, Reason and their associated plug-ins for creating and >editing music. The Mac dies and gives me problems just as much if not more >so than the PCs ever do. This is not normal behavior. My Macs go weeks without problems; at worst I get an "unexpectedly quit" which just requires me to relaunch the program. Some programs, like MS Word, have memory leaks that require occasional rebooting just to free up RAM and shrink the swapfiles, but that's simple enough. You (and every Mac user) should have a copy of Alsoft's DiskWarrior to check for the kind of disk and directory errors that cause 90% of the instability problems people experience. Forget Norton Utilities; that program died with OSX 10.3 and later. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 13:23:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Greg Dunn Subject: Re: {geek} why your Mac crashed >>I use my Mac for the traditional "this is what Mac does best" reasons such >>as running Protools, Reason and their associated plug-ins for creating and >>editing music. The Mac dies and gives me problems just as much if not more >>so than the PCs ever do. > >This is not normal behavior. My Macs go weeks without problems; at >worst I get an "unexpectedly quit" which just requires me to relaunch >the program. Some programs, like MS Word, have memory leaks that >require occasional rebooting just to free up RAM and shrink the >swapfiles, but that's simple enough. There's the only real problem with OS X; the Finder is in desperate need of a rewrite because it's bound too tightly with disk I/O and the GUI code. Application crashes will occasionally wedge it to the point that a reboot becomes necessary, because you can't force quit the app. Or it will spontaneously restart in the middle of a file copy after copying gigabytes without a problem. Never lost any data because of either, but it's pretty annoying. Then too, I have about 2 TB of attached storage and use the h&ll out of my machine copying files and editing video, so I probably am not the average user. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 11:49:30 -0700 From: "Bill Mazur" Subject: RE: {geek} why your Mac crashed Thank you Michael and Greg! The information that you both have provided is very helpful. My terminology of "dies" is probably inaccurate. What Greg mentioned is what happens with my Powerbook Mac: "Application crashes will occasionally wedge it to the point that a reboot becomes necessary, because you can't Force Quit the app." I do have a few naove questions: Do these hard reboots hurt anything? Do Force Quits ever hurt or corrupt the application that has been shut down in this manner? I have issues with Protools crashing on its own and also when interacting with other plug-in applications. So these are probably not Mac issues but Protools and whatever plug-in application issues. I was prompted to write this message because Dan mentioned that people have blind faith devotion to Apple. I guess my main point from my original message is that Apple tries to market itself as being so extra special. Apple computers are great but they have issues just like PCs. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ecto@smoe.org [mailto:owner-ecto@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Greg Dunn Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 10:23 AM To: ecto@smoe.org Subject: Re: {geek} why your Mac crashed >>I use my Mac for the traditional "this is what Mac does best" reasons such >>as running Protools, Reason and their associated plug-ins for creating and >>editing music. The Mac dies and gives me problems just as much if not more >>so than the PCs ever do. > >This is not normal behavior. My Macs go weeks without problems; at >worst I get an "unexpectedly quit" which just requires me to relaunch >the program. Some programs, like MS Word, have memory leaks that >require occasional rebooting just to free up RAM and shrink the >swapfiles, but that's simple enough. There's the only real problem with OS X; the Finder is in desperate need of a rewrite because it's bound too tightly with disk I/O and the GUI code. Application crashes will occasionally wedge it to the point that a reboot becomes necessary, because you can't force quit the app. Or it will spontaneously restart in the middle of a file copy after copying gigabytes without a problem. Never lost any data because of either, but it's pretty annoying. Then too, I have about 2 TB of attached storage and use the h&ll out of my machine copying files and editing video, so I probably am not the average user. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 15:13:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Greg Dunn Subject: RE: {geek} why your Mac crashed >I do have a few naC/ve questions: Do these hard reboots hurt anything? Do >Force Quits ever hurt or corrupt the application that has been shut down in >this manner? A forced reboot (hold the power button down) could, but I have never ever had data or program corruption as a result of a forced reboot. Force Quit literally sends a signal to the application which it is not supposed to ignore, and if the app shuts down there is no excuse for anything to be lost. If there is, it's the app's fault. Killing the login process (which should terminate the user's login and restart userland) should force quit all apps first. It's pretty robust unless you yank the power plug. I'd try the gentler stuff first of course. :-) >I have issues with Protools crashing on its own and also when interacting >with other plug-in applications. So these are probably not Mac issues but >Protools and whatever plug-in application issues. Protools is awesome, and also prone to choking due to its own architecture. I haven't used it on recent versions of OS X, but I know that any application which talks to add-on hardware can lock up pretty badly on occasion. I once lost a video file due to Final Cut Pro freezing during a capture from my camcorder; but no damage to other files it had open, or of course to the tape. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 15:45:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Bernie Mojzes Subject: RE: {geek} why your Mac crashed > Thank you Michael and Greg! The information that you both have provided is > very helpful. > > My terminology of "dies" is probably inaccurate. What Greg mentioned is what > happens with my Powerbook Mac: "Application crashes will occasionally wedge > it to the point that a reboot becomes necessary, because you can't Force > Quit the app." If "force quit" doesn't do it, try this - Open a terminal window (Applications::Utilities::Terminal.app) and at the prompt, do the following (my example is using firefox, which i'm pretending has locked up - replace with whatever is causing you problems): $ ps ax | grep -i firef 286 ?? Ss 882:02.43 /Applications/Firefox.app/Contents/MacOS/firefox-bin 2696 p7 S+ 0:00.00 grep -i firef $ kill -9 286 286 is the current process ID of firefox on my machine. If I close firefox and restart, it'll be a different number. > > I do have a few naove questions: Do these hard reboots hurt anything? Do > Force Quits ever hurt or corrupt the application that has been shut down in > this manner? A Force Quit (or a kill -9) can cause data loss of any unsaved data that you were working on when the program locks up - that's gonna depend to some extent on what kind of recovery is built into the application you are using. A hard reboot (power cycle) can damage the system in some cases. These are pretty rare, because it's unusual for important system files to be in an unstable state. The reason it can be bad is that unix (and most modern operating systems) uses a "write-after" archetecture for the sake of efficiency. Writing data to disk is one of the slowest things a computer can be asked to do. So instead of making the whole computer wait every time data is changed, the data is cached in memory until a certain threshhold is reached (this can be a time threshhold or a space threshhold), at which time it is written to disk as a batch process. In the case of a hard reboot, any data that is not yet written out is lost. This can lead to a potentially inconsistant filesystem. You'll have noticed that when you hard reboot your system it takes extra long to reboot. This is because it is doing something called "fsck" (file system check) - in which it looks through the disk for errors caused by the reboot and then tries to fix them. Usually these errors can be self-corrected by the computer. It's those rare cases where they can't that you'll have problems. > I have issues with Protools crashing on its own and also when interacting > with other plug-in applications. So these are probably not Mac issues but > Protools and whatever plug-in application issues. If you can add more memory to your system, do so. I've seen systems crap out when they are trying to juggle more data than memory can hold faster than the data can be swapped out to/from disk. brni > > I was prompted to write this message because Dan mentioned that people have > blind faith devotion to Apple. I guess my main point from my original > message is that Apple tries to market itself as being so extra special. > Apple computers are great but they have issues just like PCs. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ecto@smoe.org [mailto:owner-ecto@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Greg > Dunn > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 10:23 AM > To: ecto@smoe.org > Subject: Re: {geek} why your Mac crashed > >>> I use my Mac for the traditional "this is what Mac does best" reasons such >>> as running Protools, Reason and their associated plug-ins for creating and >>> editing music. The Mac dies and gives me problems just as much if not more >>> so than the PCs ever do. >> >> This is not normal behavior. My Macs go weeks without problems; at >> worst I get an "unexpectedly quit" which just requires me to relaunch >> the program. Some programs, like MS Word, have memory leaks that >> require occasional rebooting just to free up RAM and shrink the >> swapfiles, but that's simple enough. > > There's the only real problem with OS X; the Finder is in desperate need of > a rewrite because it's bound too tightly with disk I/O and the GUI code. > Application crashes will occasionally wedge it to the point that a reboot > becomes necessary, because you can't force quit the app. Or it will > spontaneously restart in the middle of a file copy after copying gigabytes > without a problem. Never lost any data because of either, but it's pretty > annoying. > > Then too, I have about 2 TB of attached storage and use the h&ll out of my > machine copying files and editing video, so I probably am not the average > user. > - -- brni i don't want the world, i just want your half. http://brni.livejournal.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 13:25:44 -0700 From: Michael Pearce Subject: RE: {geek} why your Mac crashed Bill Mazur writes, >Thank you Michael and Greg! The information that you both have provided is >very helpful. What Bernie said, but sometimes there is a simpler fix. If you can't open ForceQuit, just try clicking on the Desktop and that should activate the Apple menu so you can choose it there. Should also activate the keyboard command as well. Saves trying to launch and mess about in the Terminal, especially if you seldom use it. >I do have a few naove questions: Do these hard reboots hurt anything? Do >Force Quits ever hurt or corrupt the application that has been shut down in >this manner? The application, no. You will lose unsaved changes in other programs, though. It also never hurts to launch Disk Utility and click Verify Disk (10.4 only) to see if you have directory errors. If you do, you must boot from some other disk, or into single-user mode and run the file system check. There is a copy of Disk Utility on the Tiger installer disk, and also on the original disk that came with all Macs after 10.3. >I was prompted to write this message because Dan mentioned that people have >blind faith devotion to Apple. Some of us are more realistic, especially those of us in the repair business. Mac users have always had a love/hate relationship with the company. >I guess my main point from my original >message is that Apple tries to market itself as being so extra special. >Apple computers are great but they have issues just like PCs. Well, different ones. However, the general stability is proven by the lack of business we Mac techs actually get. It has been dropping steadily from the OS9 days to the point we need hundreds of clients just to get by. Straight repairs are down to 10% of my business now with the balance made up by new installations, training, upgrades and general consulting. Overall, I'm making about 60% of what I was in 1999. Conversely a PC tech who used to do Macs as well once said "That platform is a gravy train with biscuit wheels." His business has gone up since Vista was released. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 22:03:10 -0400 From: "Paul Blair" Subject: Re: {geek} why your Mac crashed On 6/5/07, Greg Dunn wrote: > > >I have issues with Protools crashing on its own... > > Protools is awesome, and also prone to choking due to its own architecture. ... Here I was reading this thinking that an application named "Protocols" but without the "c" must do something dark and esoteric. It wasn't until the third message that I got my head around it right. Kinda like cow-orkers. Then there's the mention of "fsck," but that's low-hanging fruit. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 22:14:54 -0400 From: miss lesser hamden Subject: ATTN NYC: noe @ rockwood thursday just got a text from meredith who's out on the road alerting me to an email blast from noe venable saying that she'd be playing rockwood again this thursday. a quick check of her website confirms: Thursday, June 7th 2007 Rockwood Music Hall 196 Allen St.(between E Houston and Stanton) New York, NY Noe at 7PM, Etienne at 8PM 212-477-4155 We will be sharing this evening with the marvelous Etienne De Rocher, from San Francisco. Noe plays at 7PM with bassist Richard Hammond violinist Jacob Lawson, And Greta Gertler playing piano. Etienne plays at 8PM. looks like a fun evening! anybody else gonna make it down? woj n.p. bbc world news / motorcycles of whitney ave. mash-up ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 22:23:00 -0400 From: "Paul Blair" Subject: Re: ATTN NYC: noe @ rockwood thursday I'm planning on being there. I also got a note from Karen about this going on in NYC tomorrow, which I can't make: > Rose Polenzani and Sharon Lewis reunite for June tour in the US! > http://www.myspace.com/rosepolenzani > http://www.myspace.com/sharonlewis > :::::::::::: > > WED: June 6, New York City > Living room, 7-9pm > 154 Ludlow St. > (212)533-7235 > http://www.livingroomny.com/ On 6/5/07, miss lesser hamden wrote: > just got a text from meredith who's out on the road alerting me to an > email blast from noe venable saying that she'd be playing rockwood > again this thursday. a quick check of her website confirms: > > Thursday, June 7th 2007 > Rockwood Music Hall > 196 Allen St.(between E Houston and Stanton) > New York, NY > Noe at 7PM, Etienne at 8PM > 212-477-4155 > > We will be sharing this evening with the marvelous Etienne De > Rocher, from San Francisco. Noe plays at 7PM with bassist > Richard Hammond violinist Jacob Lawson, And Greta Gertler > playing piano. Etienne plays at 8PM. > > looks like a fun evening! anybody else gonna make it down? > > woj > > n.p. bbc world news / motorcycles of whitney ave. mash-up ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 22:29:48 -0400 From: "robert bristow-johnson" Subject: Re: ATTN NYC: noe @ rockwood thursday > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "miss lesser hamden" > To: "this collective heart" > Subject: ATTN NYC: noe @ rockwood thursday > Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 22:14:54 -0400 > > > just got a text from meredith who's out on the road alerting me to an > email blast from noe venable saying that she'd be playing rockwood > again this thursday. a quick check of her website confirms: > > Thursday, June 7th 2007 > Rockwood Music Hall > 196 Allen St.(between E Houston and Stanton) > New York, NY > Noe at 7PM, Etienne at 8PM > 212-477-4155 > > We will be sharing this evening with the marvelous Etienne De > Rocher, from San Francisco. Noe plays at 7PM with bassist > Richard Hammond violinist Jacob Lawson, And Greta Gertler > playing piano. Etienne plays at 8PM. > > looks like a fun evening! anybody else gonna make it down? rock and roll, guys. (i won't make this one, but then she's moving to this neck of the woods anyway, so i'm hoping to see Noe in concert again.) hey Woj! when are you and/or meth gonna get back to me? L8r, - -- r b-j rbj@audioimagination.com "Imagination is more important than knowledge." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 22:25:10 -0700 From: "Bill Mazur" Subject: RE: {geek} why your Mac crashed Thank you again gentleman for all of your help. I appreciate your advice and the tips. Some of the tips suggested I have actually used previously. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't messing something up in the process. BTW, when I bought the Powerbook I had it maxed out with 1.5GB of memory. I need to upgrade to a desktop but that will have to wait for now. I did buy a Glyph 400GB external drive to house all of the sessions. So the Mac is primarily used to run Protools (not Protocols my cow-orker), the plug-ins and some virtual instruments. Michael, I didn't know that you were a Mac technician. You would have the perspective if Macs are generally more reliable than PCs. Also, I guess the commercials about the Vista OS are accurate then. Thanks again and all the best! - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ecto@smoe.org [mailto:owner-ecto@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Bernie Mojzes Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 12:46 PM To: Bill Mazur Cc: ecto@smoe.org; 'Michael Pearce'; 'Greg Dunn' Subject: RE: {geek} why your Mac crashed > Thank you Michael and Greg! The information that you both have provided is > very helpful. > > My terminology of "dies" is probably inaccurate. What Greg mentioned is what > happens with my Powerbook Mac: "Application crashes will occasionally wedge > it to the point that a reboot becomes necessary, because you can't Force > Quit the app." If "force quit" doesn't do it, try this - Open a terminal window (Applications::Utilities::Terminal.app) and at the prompt, do the following (my example is using firefox, which i'm pretending has locked up - replace with whatever is causing you problems): $ ps ax | grep -i firef 286 ?? Ss 882:02.43 /Applications/Firefox.app/Contents/MacOS/firefox-bin 2696 p7 S+ 0:00.00 grep -i firef $ kill -9 286 286 is the current process ID of firefox on my machine. If I close firefox and restart, it'll be a different number. > > I do have a few naove questions: Do these hard reboots hurt anything? Do > Force Quits ever hurt or corrupt the application that has been shut down in > this manner? A Force Quit (or a kill -9) can cause data loss of any unsaved data that you were working on when the program locks up - that's gonna depend to some extent on what kind of recovery is built into the application you are using. A hard reboot (power cycle) can damage the system in some cases. These are pretty rare, because it's unusual for important system files to be in an unstable state. The reason it can be bad is that unix (and most modern operating systems) uses a "write-after" archetecture for the sake of efficiency. Writing data to disk is one of the slowest things a computer can be asked to do. So instead of making the whole computer wait every time data is changed, the data is cached in memory until a certain threshhold is reached (this can be a time threshhold or a space threshhold), at which time it is written to disk as a batch process. In the case of a hard reboot, any data that is not yet written out is lost. This can lead to a potentially inconsistant filesystem. You'll have noticed that when you hard reboot your system it takes extra long to reboot. This is because it is doing something called "fsck" (file system check) - in which it looks through the disk for errors caused by the reboot and then tries to fix them. Usually these errors can be self-corrected by the computer. It's those rare cases where they can't that you'll have problems. > I have issues with Protools crashing on its own and also when interacting > with other plug-in applications. So these are probably not Mac issues but > Protools and whatever plug-in application issues. If you can add more memory to your system, do so. I've seen systems crap out when they are trying to juggle more data than memory can hold faster than the data can be swapped out to/from disk. brni > > I was prompted to write this message because Dan mentioned that people have > blind faith devotion to Apple. I guess my main point from my original > message is that Apple tries to market itself as being so extra special. > Apple computers are great but they have issues just like PCs. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ecto@smoe.org [mailto:owner-ecto@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Greg > Dunn > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 10:23 AM > To: ecto@smoe.org > Subject: Re: {geek} why your Mac crashed > >>> I use my Mac for the traditional "this is what Mac does best" reasons such >>> as running Protools, Reason and their associated plug-ins for creating and >>> editing music. The Mac dies and gives me problems just as much if not more >>> so than the PCs ever do. >> >> This is not normal behavior. My Macs go weeks without problems; at >> worst I get an "unexpectedly quit" which just requires me to relaunch >> the program. Some programs, like MS Word, have memory leaks that >> require occasional rebooting just to free up RAM and shrink the >> swapfiles, but that's simple enough. > > There's the only real problem with OS X; the Finder is in desperate need of > a rewrite because it's bound too tightly with disk I/O and the GUI code. > Application crashes will occasionally wedge it to the point that a reboot > becomes necessary, because you can't force quit the app. Or it will > spontaneously restart in the middle of a file copy after copying gigabytes > without a problem. Never lost any data because of either, but it's pretty > annoying. > > Then too, I have about 2 TB of attached storage and use the h&ll out of my > machine copying files and editing video, so I probably am not the average > user. > - -- brni i don't want the world, i just want your half. http://brni.livejournal.com/ ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V13 #146 ***************************